What do you think about hoe_math ?

NextAdministration83 · 2023-12-14T21:41:09+00:00

I think his excuse that his advice is a "generalisation" is as valid as a woman focusing on the small % of men who commit 90% of crimes to validate "ALL men are _____ trust me sis".

For the sake of argument lets point out women who speak like hoe math.

You can imply your advice is just "generalisation" all you want, but if all throughout your videos and arguments you say:

"This is why you can't trust men" "It's just natural man behaviour to..." "Women generally are better than..." "Men are conditioned to think like..."

Then you're not following a generalisation. You're making a rule and chasing sensationalism. No one who actually legitimately looks into data and analysis speaks with such absolutes.

This sort of pseudo-science talk is metaphorical circle-jerking. If it doesn't confirm or dares to challenge your bias about ______, then they will NEVER discuss it.

It's why misandrist pages actively avoid the evident efforts of women's groups like SHERA, campaign to relabel "parental alienation" as an issue in family court as "child and mother sabotage", despite men being the slight minority behind women in instigating it.

Doing this enables such services to lobby for funding towards their issues, like how coal mining lobbyists cherry pick data to persuade governments for more benefits.

Or the fact that "violence against women" implies there ISN'T only a 2% difference in DA experience between genders. At least according to the CDC (52mil women, 49.9mil men).

Of course there's an equally substantial amount of examples that these alpha male misogynists spew out that would triple the size of my comment. Not for one second do I think anyone on the other side is close to better.

Point is, he's only right because you already thought he MAY be right. You already had one or two bad experiences of an entitled child of a woman. You've already seen some videos online of poor bare minimum respect coming out of a woman. OF COURSE what he says will make sense then, because you've already seen some extremely edited, magnified version of this hoemaths incompatible dating experiences.

Also dude doesn't sound any older than 28. Why the f would he know more than the literal 40+ year old trained psychs and analysts who've studied relationships and marriage all their life?

taquito_kitty · 2023-12-14T21:29:10+00:00

You think someone with such display name isn't just a satirist?

camellight123 · 2023-12-15T01:16:53+00:00

I just sampled some, so my impression is very surface level.

To me he sounds like a guy who doesn't take himself too seriously and uses graphs and memes as a comical device. His comedy though is just sanitized red pill shit, maybe without the racism and a more palatable goofiness. Definitely not as hateful as some.

His targets are somewhat random, it seems he sees no difference between women who are themselves doing comedy, just harmless girl fun that isn't toxic, or girls who are understandably annoying/rude or hateful. He kind of puts them all in the same bucket, which indicates at least to me, that there is not much substance beside "women cringe/bad/stupid/they like bad boys" etc that is the bread and butter of the entry level red pill content creators.

xvszero · 2023-12-14T23:52:26+00:00

Sounds like an idiot or a joke.

randomstudentv · 2023-12-18T03:49:37+00:00

calls himself level 8. lol. then went on to start a site that requires you to pay 15USD to even start doing a quiz/test. if that isnt sketchy. idk what is. reminds me of any snake oil salesman out there. except he is selling his content to desperate men.

no way someone that starts asking people for money in a fking sketchy way is even near level 5. dont even say 8. please.

and the tests are self-made. non regulated in any forms or ways. no research data. no validity/reliability/testability by any means or sort. like bro. 15 usd for that? really?

ZiegAmimura · 2023-12-17T13:46:53+00:00

He makes great points. I think hes doing good work

CreeperkingHT-119 · 2024-03-01T22:13:11+00:00

The major problem I suddenly realized with his approach is the scaling system he has for men and women, and the overall chart. The issue is that humans are not a quantifiable thing with prerequisite conditions, like a random agent system with parameters. Instead, every single one of us have both common and unique conditions that exist for our standards. People look for different things regardless of who they are or what's in their pants for what they want out of life and in someone they admire. The common person also tends to somewhat understand that perfection is an illusion and will never achieve such status, lest they suffer under Sisyphean conditions for the rest of their lives. So yes it's important to improve yourself, but perfection is not the answer to finding some, ah, good stuff, but rather climbing those steps up the mountain a little bit at a time and facing whatever comes ahead.

His philosophy suffers from the sense that everyone should focus on distinct uniform condition to achieve greatness, regardless of wherever they are in life to get that golden moment. Life does not work like that, nor relationships and love.

Ytumith · 2024-04-30T10:09:59+00:00

For what it's worth, he teaches people about the gaussian standard derivative. In reality, this curve is much more "one"-heavy, and he hasn't seen shit stemming from, I believe, California.

oldcousingreg · 2023-12-16T04:15:28+00:00

Literally never heard of this account but sounds like bullshit.

NeuroDivers · 2023-12-19T11:57:07+00:00

The dating advice one is the only good thing, the rest of the time he watches Tik Toks of women and takes those entirely too seriously, you can practically smell his resentment through the screen. He's quite bitter actually.

Rockpilotyear2000 · 2023-12-20T19:00:56+00:00

Dude doing a two bit Sheldon impression with a weird cadence and 100s of middle school tier scribbles based on pet theories with no actual data to back anything up. Seems totally normal.

notbien · 2024-01-05T20:26:51+00:00

Saw one of his famous charts and I think trying to read a schizophrenic asylum patient's diary from the 60s would make more sense

RealUncleGrump · 2024-03-15T20:25:41+00:00

Cool charts

hardbrocklife · 2024-05-18T00:12:15+00:00

Hes providing insight on women to facilitate men having healthy relationships, and doing it using low quality women as a sounding board. He is not against dating at all, and thinks an MGTOW perspective is as moronic as feminism. If you look at other parts of his content he is also critical of low performing, weak minded, of self centered men. You can be a 5 that's a male and have a healthy relationship with a 7 if you are high performing, hardworking, and assertive while also being conscientious. Both Nice Guys and Jerks do not win in the end. The guy who has adopted the positive traits of both groups while cultivating out the negative traits is who wins.

He has explained that the amount of partners both men and women have before finding a healthy relationship have largely stayed the same. 4 decades ago and 5 now. The extremes at both end of the spectrum are all that have changed. Incel men and hypergamous women. The 80% in the middle is the same as it was 10-30 years ago. Social media rewards the extremes, thus that is what people consume the most. Incels are just MORE incel and hoes are just more hoeish.

TheRealAnimatorGuy · 2025-03-31T20:59:54+00:00

The most malicious and evil YouTube channel I've ever come across. (my story with hoe_math)

I came across this channel at the turn of 2023-2024 and I was immediately drawn in by the pretty drawings and confident way he described complex human processes. The first video I watched was Relationship Zones and I remember watching with quiet apprehension l, thinking "i mean, yeah, but he shouldn't say it". It seemed to make sense though and later I discovered the Levels of thinking video which blew my mind, like my years of overthinking was contextualised into a "scientific" model. What later followed was a year of my life wasted following his dumb advice.

During 2023 (before discovering HM), I was fairly successful with casual relationships and just screwing around, mainly because I didn't take it too seriously. I would just head out with some mates and have fun and girls would sense that energy and want to get with me. It was awesome. Then I discovered the channel and got falsely told that this was in fact a science and that women are secretly evaluating your status with other men and have a very specific set of criteria that they judge you on. I then looked at myself and realised that I never had a hope in hell at getting into a serious relationship in the state I was in. I decided to take HMs advice to "work on myself", going to the gym, working on my smoothness and charm, becoming a so-called "bad boy" to "self-maximize" my attractiveness. This (of-course) made me into an insecure husk, a number chasing, try-hard mysognist who would turn off girls immediately because I had an underlying agenda.

This then lead to a general feeling of hopelessness and dissatisfaction with the dating market and my place within it. My anxiety worsened because of this and I was just left with the feeling of "I'm going to be alone forever". I essentially felt stuck. One the one hand, I could continue to follow HMs advice and abandon everything unique about myself in the hope that it would land me a relationship. Or, on the other hand, I could stay as I was a "so called" 5/10 who doesn't thank highly on his attractiveness chart.

By Jan 2025, I put my foot down and declared HM for what it is. A manipulative scam designed to trap lonely men into a spiral of self-help abuse and eventually drip feed his audience into the manosphere by referencing the whatever podcast and working with other like minded drones. I felt free from these rules and began to express myself more however this experience has left me with the worst anxiety and no success in dating whatsoever. A complete waste of time and damage done to my own physce for his own gain.

The way HM conveys his mysognist views is so sly. He's ultimately banking on your experience with conservative standards of dating and relationships as in monogamous and heterosexual (he has mentioned nothing about LGBTQ relationships). His views are service level, dismissive of circumstance, highly assumptive and, at their worst, destructive to his audiences well being. His philosophy is that everyone should become an unrealistic version of attractiveness that is sensationalised in the media to appear attainable. He completely ignores the possibility of someone following his advice, finding a partner and then discovering that they were only following the advice of a redpiller and that they actually have no real skills whatsoever. His entire practice relies on you being single and stuck so you can continue to follow his advice and eventually buy his self-improvement programme.

Please, stay away from this channel and all manosphere content. Live your life the way you want to. If you feel lost, don't turn to channels like this who exploit the vulnerable. Talk to friends and family who know you, not faceless manipulators on the internet.

cummingouttamycage · 2023-12-17T06:59:08+00:00

I went down this rabbit hole out of morbid curiosity. Im usually very good at finding people who make a lot of effort to not be found… couldn't figure much out for him. Not a ton to work with. As far as his personal life, he’s very good at keeping that private, but pretty sure he’s some sort of remote worker in cybersecurity (explains the privacy thing), and in his late 30s. My speculation based on recent content is that he got laid off or was fired from his full time job (happening a lot in tech), hence him saying he’s pursuing content full time unexpectedly, the volume of content overall increasing and increased amount of content about frustration with women making more money than men.

I go back and forth on how much is a bit. He’s clearly self aware and in on the joke in a good chunk of his videos. He’s never openly mean to anyone, although he enables his comments section. But he is also very open about how he doesn’t go outside and has social anxiety… so it seems like he might be taking the vids he stitches seriously (many of which are obvious skits, or sensationalized by women looking for attention/a following). He also seems to buy into the messaging pushed by the FnF / Whatever-type podcasts, and pushes it as gross generalizations to his similarly badly-socialized audience... it seems like he believes that a high # / % of women are involved in OF or other SW (overwhelming majority are not), that all women are "delusional" of their 1-10 ranking and seek men "out of their league" or the "80% of women are going for 20% of men" speech (usually stitching "I'm the prize" / "dating storytime" influencer types to prove this point) and that women view a % of men as "not people" (true for the wrong reasons -- this is most frequently a type of introverted, chronically online type of guy. They're "not people" because women aren't aware they exist because they never cross paths with them).

lamkazuha · 2024-06-15T15:03:56+00:00

I thought he would at least not listen to general stereotypes, I was very wrong

Also his community and comments are full of toxic people, i don't want to interact with any people like that

Alarming-Fly-1679 · 2025-03-16T11:28:17+00:00

I think he receives undue criticism largely because people project their belief that "criticizing women equates to bigotry" onto him. If you set aside preconceived notions, you'll notice his primary intention is simply to analyze and explain dating dynamics. My understanding is that he believes men and women differ fundamentally in their desires and motivations, and that men, in particular, need to adapt to these differences to have fulfilling relationships.

He frequently illustrates his points using examples from social media platforms like TikTok, showcasing behaviors exhibited by both men and women that align with his theories. In a way, he functions as a kind of dating coach Slavoj Zizek, providing insightful commentary through popular culture references. Perhaps this method contributes to misconceptions because on a superficial viewing, it may appear as though he's targeting women solely for entertainment or ridicule, rather than making nuanced observations.

(Of course, he occasionally has takes that I don't agree with.)

Armairoes · 2025-03-20T07:15:44+00:00

Hoe_Math, the dude who talks so passionately about relationship advice but fails to even land a woman himself. His content is largely anecdotal in nature, mixed with a few unsourced charts and unhinged tiktok content. Meanwhile, adding some common sense truths into the whole deal to make his videos more alluring to people. You got to love his sane comment sections!

I wouldn’t look up to him. He’s no stranger of incorporating his own politics into his “studies” and definitely no champion of women’s rights. For someone who dislikes modernity so much, I’m surprised he hasn’t joined the Amish community yet with the professional public intellectual ‘Rudyard Lynch’.

regan0zero · 2025-07-18T15:33:26+00:00

Dude is on the spectrum. Its not a bad thing, but listen to his voice. No personality at all. He sounds awkward af. He also doesnt have a very masculine voice either.

He also never shows his face. Very wary of someone saying they are an “8” and never shows his face. He is very conservative and I wouldnt be surprised he is MAGA and/or a racist. He mentioned a lot in interviews about how his life ended up horrible after George Floyd riots. Im leaning toward racist conservative misogynist. Weirdo dude. If Sheldon was more awkward and more arrogant. Lol.

ToriJericho · 2024-03-05T14:55:58+00:00

I’m

Potential-Glass1213 · 2025-01-15T04:05:57+00:00

Guy is a weirdo and it's embarrassing that anyone takes him seriously or would look up to him.

DjSky96 · 2025-09-04T00:13:57+00:00

Good dude, very solid advice that can help reduce the number of bad experiences you have to personally suffer before being able to understand women on a deeper level.

AnthonyJLV · 2024-01-24T15:34:54+00:00

Almost every single thing he's said has mirrored my own 20+ years of dating experience.

OutcomeNo5846 · 2024-02-21T04:07:20+00:00

I unsubbed when him and his cult started silencing me when I challenged them about deciding whether marriage or hypergamy was more important for marriage.

GyantSpyder · 2024-01-13T05:24:19+00:00

I think there’s a question of temperament in his work - where he is reaching for some insight that is legit and useful, and he’s not saying things that are as hateful informationally as some other creators, but there is some disdain and callousness that informs what he is saying - especially the “sense” of it more than the “meaning” - and making it not as helpful as it could be and a potential avenue for self-loathing downward spirals, which is one thing you want to avoid in your thinking both because it is unhelpful and because it is inappropriate.

You could just as easily frame his two axes as “pair bonding” and “tournament” rather than “Long term” and “bad boy” and avoid importing a whole lot of baggage. Yes it is the case that attraction operates on multiple continua that conflict with each other, some of which are more long term than others. But you don’t have to think about it like somebody is always being duped or somebody is always lying or delusional as part of explaining it, or that somebody is always lying if they choose one over another and not both. It’s just a lot of unnecessary cruelty, both inward and outward.

And the whole 1-10 rating scale just isn’t accurate in general as a way to think about competition and attraction and speaks again to a sort of universal loathing of the way the world is that is not healthy to be part of - I think he is missing some deeper understanding of the science of attraction especially in that part of his analysis. There is more going on than he says (particularly stuff like olfactory cues which don’t come through on virtual interactions and end up confusing people).

What he is saying there is more accurate about dating apps, which have this sort of cruelty built into them, than it is about human sexuality in practice. There’s a whole bunch he could say about how what people see online doesn’t match reality and how that is alienating and frustrating and his schemes of validating a general disposition of kind of tragic loathing might be interfering with that.

He would also be wiser to consider misattribution of arousal as a separate factor from tournament species behavior and not part of it (I.e. being in danger or feeling like you might get caught doing something wrong amplified general arousal which is interpreted as attraction it does not mean women have a biological impetus to desire to be in danger - it’s a spandrel that is mostly used in fantasy.). And it ignored stuff like abuse re-enactment you shouldn’t necessarily lend this sort of normative authority. That’s part of the whole “Dark Triad” thing.

When you take people at their word about what they are thinking, remember that in human psychology especially when talking about something super upsetting, you can’t take someone at their word about why they are feeling it.

I think you can carve out a bunch of really good advice from about 40% of what he is saying but the other 60% is counterproductive because of several important ways it is factually off due to being biased toward red-pillish preconceived ideas of behavior and outcomes.

Desperate-Captain-84 · 2024-06-17T11:03:43+00:00

Love hoe math. Facts don’t have to always be pleasing. It is what it is. Don’t have to call the facts Redpill if you don’t want to. Because they fall under what would be labeled “redpill” rhetoric do we just throw the data in the trash? It’s getting to the point that if you attempt to analyze female nature enough to navigate it in this post social media age… you’re an evil man for doing that. When you attach names and labels to ideas… it always hurts the idea. From politics, to religion, or any form of ideology you always have those bad apples that makes the whole movement look bad. But you can’t kill an idea. You don’t have to call it Mgtow or redpill. Men have the access to all the information they need to not go into dating or marriage with the same wide eyes as your grandfather did. They will just do what they will with this information and never identify as Mgtow or redpill. They’ll probably never even know what that is. The cat is out of the bag. Understanding differences as to how times have changed, and adjustments you have to make to protect yourself as a man is vital! No one else is going to look out for you in that matter… no one else can, it’s all on you. People can be so toxic when they are lonely they can say mean things. This is what gave the Mgtow redpill community so much hate. But don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. There are valuable lessons to be learned when paying attention to the effects that the modern courts, entertainment, and social media have on modern relationships. To not even consider these things is seriously just asking for trouble. Men will act accordingly. There doesn’t have to be a group, or a subreddit, or a flag, or a banner, or a title, or a secret handshake. That will just attract a space for the saboteurs to water down the message. It’s just an idea…it’s just data that men are adjusting to which is what you do with data.

1SL2ALS3EKV · 2025-12-15T10:43:10+00:00

Women tend to not actually want bad boys, but they want men who are able to display an appropriate amount of masculinity. When situations are normal and everyday-like, he doesn't need to turn his masculinity up by 100% because the situations don't ask for it. By that, I mean high aggression and the capability to fight off a threatening person. Women want men to be able to be soft, kind, empathic and thoughtful, but BE ABLE to display high aggression only when a situation calls for it.

Title	What do you think about hoe_math ?
Author	lordDandas
Upvotes	56
Comments	161
Date	December 14, 2023 9:03 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/18iimug/what_do_you_think_about_hoe_math/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/what-do-you-think-about-hoe_math.1240789 https://theredarchive.com/post/1240789

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