Do men have friendships with women ?

featherblackjack · 2023-11-02T11:39:52+00:00

For a lot of men, it's not that they can't control themselves. They just think they shouldn't have to. Not even red pillers, just regular everyday guys.

CommentsEdited · 2023-11-02T10:55:10+00:00

I'm friends with many women, including most of my ex-girlfriends. The exes are particularly interesting, because it's not necessarily the ones I had the most intense, intimate connections with that end up being the best friendships. But intense feelings and attraction don't negate the chance of lasting friendship, either. If anything, I'd say it comes down to how much thoughtful effort we're willing to put into "converting" the relationship to a friendship, and normalizing a new suite of ways of relating to each other.

In my opinion, we really need to dispense with this notion that being attracted to someone is like some kind of blaring siren with flashing red lights, that must be dealt with.

Like in all these silly anecdotes where people say "Yeah, there was this guy — Greg — who she was friends with the whole time we were dating. And I knew he wanted her. But every time I brought it up, she'd brush it off and say 'Oh Greg's just a good friend!' But sure enough, a month after we broke up, I see them together on her Instagram."

That is a non-story. Basically what happened was:

You dated someone you thought was attractive and rewarding to be around.
One of her friends, who was attractive and rewarding to be around, agreed with you, because you both have good taste in women.
Nothing happened.
You broke up, and the attractive person who was attracted to the attractive person you found attractive... got together with her.

This is the social equivalent of being shocked and appalled when you take the middle rock out from a stack of three rocks, and the top rock falls on the bottom rock.

Instead of getting all weird about attraction, try to cultivate an appreciation for how pleasant it is to be attracted to people, and view it as a positive thing. Because it is! And when you do feel compelled to let someone know you like the way she looks, try to remember that you aren't just saying this in a vacuum. You're saying it with the full history and picture she has of you, as a person.

I think a lot of men get fixated on what the "right words" are, and/or angry "there is no right way" to express attraction, without realizing that women are three dimensional, observant people, just as capable as you are of assessing an interaction, not just with awareness of how you present yourself, but also awareness of how much you could reasonably know about her, as a person.

If I tell my ex, F., she looks fucking hot as hell in a dress and that it makes me want to do bad things, she will appreciate the hell out of that, even though she does not want to get back together. But she'd still enjoy the "inappropriate" compliment, because she knows me, and she knows that I know that when she's wearing a dress, she means business, and probably could use the confidence boost. If I were a stranger, she'd be creeped out. Not because he's necessarily unattractive, but because he simply has no basis to comment on her body, except to communicate "I would put my penis in you if you would let me."

That's... not really a compliment. But why isn't a compliment? Do you know?

It's not a compliment because it doesn't leave her with anything after you're gone. What is she supposed to do with the knowledge that a stranger would fuck her? Or that Dave, the quiet, withdrawn guy from Accounting, who hardly talks to anyone, would fuck her?

When Dave comments on her body, and she reacts negatively, he's going to tell himself it's because girls "Only like compliments from Chads. Otherwise, it's creepy." But while Chad might get a tiny benefit of the doubt, especially with the right girl in the right place and time, what's far more relevant is this is the first time Dave from Accounting has ever done a damn thing to give her any data to work with. But if she knows Dave from Accounting is close friends with the woman at the desk next to hers, and she knows he's constantly building her up, and cares about her happiness and self-confidence, then she's going to be much more receptive.

Does that guarantee Dave will get a date? Fuck no. It helps, though. And it removes the "creep factor", because it means when he pays her a compliment, she'll know he actually places some value on it besides what benefits it might have for him.

And if you can start to appreciate why having that relationship with women in general might be beneficial to you as a human, then you're well on your way to upgrading pretty much everything, including your dating prospects. Partly because it enhances your confidence and ability to charm the hell out of women who do like what they see. But also because you know who's a hell of a lot better than red pill at giving you the inside track on how to do well with women?

Women.

VigilanteJusticia · 2023-11-02T10:57:05+00:00

I’ve had many close friendships with women over decades. Women that I’ve had no romantic involvement with even though they are very attractive. That “men can’t control their sex drive” trope is nonsense and excuses poor and predatory behavior by men.

This trope being nonsense becomes clear when you understand that sex is something all humans want… both men and women want it equal levels. Some men and women more than others when you factor in the spectrum of people who are asexual in varying degrees, cultural upbringing, etc. Gay guys can control themselves around their male friends. Straight women can control themselves around their male friends. Lesbian women can control themselves around their female friends. Then why the hell wouldn’t straight men be able to do the same. We’re not wild animals. Anyone man who claims they can’t, has some other issues they need to address.

My current roommate is society’s idea of a beautiful woman. We’re very good friends and that is a line I would not cross even if she ever expressed interest. We have no problem walking around each other in our underwear at times as we’re doing chores around the house because we’re both comfortable around each other. We’ve taken trips together, been wingman/wingwoman for each other, met each other’s partners. For this to work you have to first start seeing women as independent and autonomous people and not just as sexual objects. You also have to stop being scared or intimidated by them.

One benefit from this is that women know women. So if you need advice when dating or pursuing a woman, your female friend can give you perspective that you wouldn’t typically understand and vice versa, you can do the same for them with their dating life. And because you don’t always like certain things your friends do, living with a woman has also taught me what I would and would not tolerate from a long term partner. It’s taught me how to navigate conflict resolution with someone of the opposite sex/gender if any issues were to come up. All that to say, they’ve all been good and rewarding friendships.

Feel free to ask me any questions. I’d be glad to answer.

Most_Read_1330 · 2023-11-02T08:47:51+00:00

I do!

thrownawaytodaysr · 2023-11-02T13:28:00+00:00

Yes. Friendships with women are great, particularly if not exclusively when both parties have a purely platonic understanding of the relationship.

With that said, when one party isn't on the same page, they are fucking awful for the person who is the target of unrequited affection.

incredulitor · 2023-11-02T18:08:19+00:00

There are some good questions in the OP and a heartfelt reason for asking, so bear with me for a second while I make fun of the more redpilled way that the question in the title has often been asked before.

No, men can't have friendships with women. As a matter of fact, straight to jail. This is why there are no popular media that would demonstrate the possibility. It's also why in the real world, it's impossible for the presence of women to benefit a predominately male working environment.

(that's sarcasm. click the links)

There's no one single explanation that applies to every man that has problems being friends with women (or just with people in general, even if the reasons for his problems with male friendships are at least on the surface different from his reasons for problems with female friendships). Speaking broadly though, it's often some combination of negative beliefs about gender in general, along with inner conflicts about his own sexuality and sense of self.

Very few people have no control of their sex drive. Let's say we're talking about a guy who would endorse statements like "I can't control myself around women." Maybe at some point that guy, like most of us human beings, has felt horny at some point in a context where it would have been inappropriate to express it. For the sake of example, let's say he was waiting at a bus stop and in the idle, boring moment of waiting, thoughts of his boss who he feels attraction to crossed his mind. Because he can't control himself, presumably, he drops trou at the bus stop while he's having this thought about his boss and starts masturbating. Right? I mean, he can't control himself. Once this feeling takes him over, that's it. He's off to the races.

And this is most men we're talking about, because it's a biologically essential quality, right?

Again, sarcasm. But it illustrates the point that outside of hardened sex offenders, most of us are regulating ourselves to some degree more often than not. Some people have an easier time with it than others. Some people take more ownership of that process and the outcomes that their behavior drives than others.

To your credit, unlike these people I'm talking about who fail to take their thinking to its logical conclusion, you seem to be being pretty real with yourself about what tensions in yourself lead it to be uncomfortable for you, in particular, to be friends with a woman. That deserves respect and care. When you're saying:

I´d probably be willing to date them but they wouldn´t be willing to date me. And I think that´s kinda unfair and it hurts my ego. But that´s a small problem because basing your self-worth on other people´s approval isn´t very healthy.

it sounds like you're recognizing that even if there's not exactly sexual attraction at play, it would still be hard (but not impossible) for you to sit with something feeling unreciprocal about the desire for exclusivity. I'm not sure exactly how to get that to a comfortable conclusion, but somewhere, I think you're pointing towards the possibility of learning to really feel it deeply that that can be in the background without it destroying you, or the other person, or the relationship. It can be OK to have friendships (and even relationships!) where sometimes your mind drifts to possibilities of what could be, wondering about the inner thoughts or desires of the other person that will always remain at least somewhat inaccessible, or about what parts of yourself you hold back in order to let other things flow.

you_said_what1544 · 2023-11-02T19:11:48+00:00

I consider myself lucky as a man because I have always been friends with women. Some of the best friends I've ever had and some of the first friends I've ever made were girls. I simply developed this way, so being friends with women is just second nature. Unfortunately, many men didn't grow up the way that I did. Most men (Correct me if I'm wrong, this is just based on my personal experience observing others) don't start *really* interacting with girls until middle school when hormones are involved. On top of that, the men who say "men and women can't just be friends" usually lack the maturity, emotional intelligence, self control, and personal boundaries to not feel attracted to every woman they meet. They also don't understand that acknowledging someone is attractive and actively being attracted to them are not strictly mutually inclusive. I've been friends with many attractive women, but never thought of them as any more than just a friend because I can understand that I don't have to be attracted to them so see them as attractive.

DO NOT buy into the "It's just male nature. This is just how we are" BS! Those guys are just dodging accountability for the things I previously mentioned: lack of maturity, emotional intelligence, self control, and personal boundaries.

If you want to be friends with women, go be friends with women. Don't let any man-child tell you otherwise.

A_Tribe_Called_Slatt · 2023-11-02T10:43:50+00:00

I do. 90% of my friends are women.

I just don't trust men enough to be friends with them, save for a chosen few.

ej_theraider · 2023-11-02T18:59:19+00:00

I can count on 1 hand how many female (platonic) friends I have and still have some fingers left over. Those friends are VERY dear to me, but not in a sexual way.

The problem with being "friends" with the opposite sex is if and when attraction comes into play. It's usually the guy (in my personal experience) to catch feelings ( these feelings include but aren't limited to)...The guy LIKES her and wants a relationship, or he wants to have relations with her. It also has to do with a degree of "fairness". If one person wants to be JUST genuine platonic friends and the other wants something more or different, then logically the party that wants more is going to feel "cheated" in a way. In other words "why should you get everything u want from me without me getting the equivalent (what I want) in return". This'll draw a wedge between the two parties or cause the "cheated" party to either A. End the pretend friendship. B. Pressure the other party into accepting their feelings C.Become a Wolf in sheep's clothing and keep up the "fake" friendship until an "opportunity" presents itself .

Think about value exchange or trade. If I give u apples asking for oranges in return and you give me apples I'm not gonna be happy. Sure apples are valuable but Oranges are MORE valuable to ME PERSONALLY. While one party is perfectly content receiving apples, the other party feels it is unfair because you tried to offer them apples as well when they value oranges. (I really hope this analogy makes sense and I'm not talking out my ass).

Moral of the story men and women can be platonic friends IF AND WHEN sexual attraction is NOT an element in the dynamic for either party.

jamaicanroach · 2023-11-03T00:14:42+00:00

I'm friends with women, and I have zero desire to date them or have sex with them. This is probably because I view them as whole people with lives of their own and not some kind of sex/relationship dispensing vending machines if enough enough "nice guy" tokens are inserted.

Dear-Tank2728 · 2023-11-02T10:28:38+00:00

I dont personally. My mom was too independent and gave me a taste in women that are incredibly rare, both in relationships and friends.

fathergoose77 · 2023-11-02T16:08:56+00:00

Yes. I’m in a relationship so we’ve talked about boundaries we would be comfortable or not with in the friendships. We’re also both friends with each others friends at this point, and our opposite sex friends are mostly coupled themselves. I can acknowledge if one of my friends or coworkers is good looking without making it more than just an observation.

Helps that I grew up pretty close to my sister and girl cousins (many of which were tomboys), so women never seemed that mystical and different to me when it comes to friendships. Just that some of them have different interest, but usually they also have sone interests I can also engage in. Like one is an avid marathon runner which I have zero interest in engaging in, but we have similar music tastes and will go to the same shows.

Ifhes · 2023-11-02T19:11:49+00:00

That is not a small problem my dude, that is a huge problem, yes because of the self-worth thing, hut also because it assumes you should always have women willing to date you for you to feel okay and fair in the friendship, and so your ego is not hurt (it sounds crazy, I know, they're not even my words, I'm quoting you).

I've been single for 13.5 years. I do kinda ok on money and I am decent looking, still I stopped caring about dating girls so so much because it drive people away, I only occasionally try it with people I feel a connection with and end up becoming friends if things go right. I have multiple women friends. Most of my best friends right now are women and I am very happy with that, we so gaming nights, go to shows and movies, go biking, I regularly see one of them 3 times a week together with her BF to go to swimming classes. Things are great, and all because I stopped listening to my penis when speaking to women and befriending them. They're just people who happen to be women, incredible this has to be said.

Straight-Sock4353 · 2023-11-03T01:57:28+00:00

Most men do. Red pillers and black pillers don’t.

Huge-Revolution9177 · 2023-11-03T16:35:39+00:00

Well I'm speaking anecdotally but I'd say it's very possible.

Roughly half my friends are women and since I'm sure it'll come up, no I did not want to date most of them at any given point in time.

Top_Radio_9436 · 2023-11-03T16:40:15+00:00

Yeah so there's this girl I'm friends with at school who is muslim and hot. It will never be more than a platonic friendship because I'm never going to convert to Islam, but that's okay because I enjoy her company. I think guys I grew up with who are really trad and raised to adhere to strict gender roles tend to be homosocial heterosexuals, "redpilled" or not. They think its only acceptable as a man to be into "guy things" and talk about "guy stuff" and only relate to guys who are raised the same way, so their social circle is a sausage fest. They only interact with women to try to sleep with them.

Comingtoyoulive16 · 2023-12-08T08:40:14+00:00

My opinion as a woman. I think if you have no kind of attraction to the girl then yes you could be friends.

DangerStarfish · 2023-11-02T09:31:31+00:00

I'm not friends with women because I'm afraid of being alone with a woman. I'm afraid of being alone with a woman because I am afraid of being falsely accused of sexual assault or rape. I'm also afraid of being blackmailed or manipulated. I'm afraid of adopting effeminate habits...

PutsWomenOnPedestal · 2023-11-02T12:34:26+00:00

Is it really because they can´t control their sex drive ?

Basically yes, although that’s not an issue with women a man isn’t attracted to. Also men-women friendships are viewed with suspicion in my culture.

AssociationCurrent22 · 2023-11-02T14:08:18+00:00

I have one but we don't hang out often. I think there's a lot of men who are emotionally available, I'm just too awkward to make friends with them 🤧

Difficult_Ferret2838 · 2023-11-02T15:08:43+00:00

I have great female friends, but they tend to be older. My favorite coworker is a sassy and outspoken middle aged lady but she just quit 😪

camalicious13 · 2023-11-02T21:30:30+00:00

I have and do have female friends. I met my wife through female friends. I enjoy the company of people I have common interests in and frankly I sometimes prefer the company of some women. One can recognize someone is attractive and still have a Strictly plutonic relationship.

xweert123 · 2023-11-03T00:35:37+00:00

There's quite a lot of women that I'm friends with. I don't treat them any differently from my male friends and it goes just fine. I also have a girlfriend and have been a relationship with them for 7 years, now. We also are in groups that have both men and women in them, with various members of that group being single, taken, etc.; none of that really matters.

It has nothing to do with sex drive, attraction, etc., it's just about interacting with them as people. Since, well, they ARE people. Just like anyone else. Sometimes feelings can develop in the group, but, that's the cool thing about being emotionally mature adults; boundaries are formed and respected.

On that note, too, you can find someone attractive without that inherently meaning that you have feelings and sexual cravings for them. It's just basic human knowledge. I'm not necessarily sure what question this is trying to ask or what point it's trying to make, but, at the end of the day, I feel like the main reason why men in the Redpill space tend to be so delusional is because they fixate on sex and relationships solving all their problems, to the point of dehumanizing women. And it's hard to make friends and interact with others when that's your only goal in life. They tend to forget the reason WHY they don't interact with woman is an internal issue, and not an issue with the rest of the world.

sensibl3chuckle · 2023-11-04T12:53:34+00:00

Man here. I would be friends with more women if they didn't try to have sex with me. There are so many situations in life where a friendship is the best - coworker, wife of friend, little sister of friend, fat chick, etc.... but so far I haven't been able to pull it off.

DangerStarfish · 2023-11-04T13:16:51+00:00

Update: after really thinking about the exchanges in this thread,

I'm realizing that it is sexist to assume that a man wouldn't falsely accuse me either. So... I'm not hanging out with anybody one on one regardless of gender. It's either a group function or I'm just simply not going.

mikethemaster2012 · 2023-11-05T05:13:11+00:00

Some friendship with women is more valuable than having sex with them. Like I wouldn't mind having a sexual relationship with my friend at the same whatcof go sour or goes left and your relationship ends. I value that person more as a friend than a secual partner. I'm a male, by the way.

Forsaken-Pepper-3099 · 2023-11-06T05:13:18+00:00

First of all, we have to define what friendship actually means. I have female acquaintances in my social circles, but these are not people I would ever say grab coffee with and talk about life. That is reserved for friends.

I (34m) am not friends with women on a deeper level because at some point one person or the other almost always decides they want more. I don’t believe in “friends first” I believe in asking a woman out on an actual date if I am interested. On the other hand many women I’ve the years who I was not Interested in often started to develop feelings for me, and it was a whole situation when I didn’t reciprocate.

Also, the level of intimacy(vulnerability and sharing )I would want to have with a woman would be too close to what I would want in a relationship that it would be confusing and therefore I don’t go to women who I am not romantically interested to have those discussions.

CollonelSanders · 2023-11-06T20:20:06+00:00

The same gender is just more likely to share the same interests with each other. Male personalities tend to mix better with each other for friendships while male and female personalities tend to be a better mix for romantic relationships.

Title	Do men have friendships with women ?
Author	lordDandas
Upvotes	22
Comments	125
Date	November 2, 2023 8:39 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/17lyz4r/do_men_have_friendships_with_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/do-men-have-friendships-with-women.1237108 https://theredarchive.com/post/1237108

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