Gender is a social construct therefore Toxic Masculinity cannot exist.

CeleryMan20 · 2025-05-07T16:56:48+00:00

Toxic masculinity isn’t men being mean. “Toxic masculinity” was originally coined by a men’s lib movement to mean the restrictive gender expectation for males to be macho. It is, among other things, the practice of victimising males who appear to be weak of effete. In its original sense, toxic masculinity is a mechanism that creates the social construct of maleness.

Feminists just steal good terms and debase them. See also “patriarchy”, “misogyny”, “oppression”, “rape culture”.

YetAgain67 · 2025-05-07T15:05:25+00:00

The thing about gender discourse, I feel, is that it's literally up for endless avenues of interpretation, nuance, "what abouts," and yes, even contradiction. Biology, psychology, sociology...it quickly becomes overwhelming to try and keep up with it and parse it out.

Maybe it's reductive of me or privileged of me to say this, but I really think it should just be as simple as: "let people live and express themselves as the gender/sex/orientation they feel they are and let all of this shit sort itself out."

Burning_Burps · 2025-05-07T15:01:05+00:00

From a sociological perspective, gender is a social construct. A social construct does not mean the subject in question is arbitrary or not real, rather, that our understanding of it is socially determined. Language, government, and morality are also social constructs.

Gender being a social construct does not mean that toxic masculinity does not exist, in the same way that language being a social construct does not mean that stories don't exist.

Toxic masculinity as a concept has many valid criticisms to counter it, but this is a poor argument against it.

Minimum_Guitar4305 · 2025-05-07T12:19:11+00:00

The notion that Gender is a social construct is no longer promoted by mainstream feminism, because the biologists told them to shut up.

Gender is biopsychosocial, a complex mix of genetic, sexual, pschyological, and societal factors.

Sharo_77 · 2025-05-07T10:28:07+00:00

If excluding stereotypes or biology there are no exclusively male or female traits, thoughts, emotions or behaviours then the question "how can anyone have a genuine gender identity?" arises.

Aren't we all just biology and personalities?

Snowstormssuck · 2025-05-07T15:57:57+00:00

You have misunderstood.

Women = good Cis women = good Trans women = good or bad (depends on your brand of feminism) Trans men = good

Cis men = the devil incarnate

ChaosCron1 · 2025-05-07T16:01:55+00:00

If you read literature about Toxic Masculinity that is dependent on constructivism, then you'd see that they describe toxic masculinity within the context of the specific culture.

CeleryMan20 · 2025-05-07T19:17:43+00:00

I’d like to delve into the phrase “gender is a social construct”. Within the socially-constructed aspects of gender, I think it’s useful to separate out gender roles versus gender expression. And also consider what is implied when progressives or activists say that something is ‘just’ a social construct.

(Traditional) gender roles would be things like man is the hunter/breadwinner/warrior, woman is the career and nurturer. Men protect women, women protect children. Men ask women out on dates, not vice versa (roles like pursuer, prize, seductress, etc). Women run the household, men are in charge of its external affairs (one proper meaning of “patriarchy”).

There were historically biological factors influencing the social roles: if your social system is a small tribe or clan, its survival requires breeding and raising the next generation, then women of reproductive age are more valuable as breeders and men are more disposable as hunters and warriors. One surviving man can inseminate many women. (There is supposedly some genetic research that indicates a Y-chromosome bottleneck some thousands of years ago that isn’t matched by a corresponding loss of mitochondrial diversity.) Also men are on average slightly larger and more aggressive than women as a result of natural &/or sexual selection. This is where we get into the arguments of “purely social” versus biological essentialism and evolutionary psychology. Plus, remember that not all social roles are driven by that basic sexual divide: there was always a place for the poet, bard, shaman, priest, artisan, inventor, orator, leader, etc.

Norms of gender expression vary hugely between cultures and across time. In 17th century European paintings, rich and powerful men are depicted wearing tunics and hose: showing off their shapely, masculine legs. In the 20th century, women wear skirts and hosiery, showing off their shapely feminine legs, whilst men wear trousers. Men used to wear ornate wigs and jewelry, nowadays hairstyling and jewelry are considered more feminine. Oddly, it seems rare for men to wear more face make-up than women, perhaps war paint or ceremonial body paint are activity-specific examples? Gender expression could also be speech, voice, physical mannerisms (e.g. Japanese female versus male intonation and breathing, western gay/queer male flouncy/fruity/camp gestures and speech rhythm.)

I believe the existence of sexually dimorphic (or polymorphic) gender expression comes down to mating selection: advertising one’s availability as a mate (by marking one as clearly woman/man, but also consider dress and adornment for married versus unmarried women, non-heterosexual markers), and advertising high status and desirability. The form of that expression is what varies with culture and fashion.

Whilst society and culture is an external influence on the individual person (nature + nurture), society is itself subject to external influences of biology, economics (competing for resources, expanding into new territory, exploiting technological advances), and cross-cultural intercourse. To say that something is “just” a social construct seems to imply that society could “just” change. One does not simply walk into social change, just as an individual does not easily change their beliefs, values, and habits. It is more than the fight of progressives versus conservatives: society has its own inertia and homeostasis.

(Apologies for the long long comment, I felt the need to explain and not just drop the first paragraph as a nekkid assertion.)

UganadaSonic501 · 2025-05-07T18:19:43+00:00

If you go by natural sciences,toxic(either)doesn't exist unless your man is radioactive or something,then he's literally toxic

Codexe- · 2025-05-09T17:35:02+00:00

Sure. But I think masculinity is an ideal or a set of behaviors that are idealized. So the toxicity comes from trying to achieve masculinity.

So, based on that perspective, I would think that femininity is just as toxic. And I do think that.

I think we only hear about toxic masculinity, because it's mostly women who talk about stuff like this. And for some reason, the podcast bros, don't wanna talk about toxic femininity. For some reason, they only want to use low blows instead of addressing real issues and trying to actually resolve conflicts.

Also I do agree with your take on femininity and masculinity. I think they are mostly arbitrary.

Blauwpetje · 2025-05-20T15:40:52+00:00

Do people really believe all primates know men-women-dimorphism except humans? Or that human men and women differ everywhere in their bodies except their heads? Or that differences that occur in 99% of cultures are a social construct? If that has become the self-evident wisdom of this sub, it has deteriorated a lot since it started and I became a member.

vegetables-10000 · 2025-05-07T18:24:38+00:00

Good take here.

purpleblossom · 2025-05-07T12:00:56+00:00

The biggest issue with the phrase is that gender isn’t the social construct, gender roles are. And since gender roles can be toxic, that means there is such a thing as toxic femininity in opposition to toxic femininity.

Ethyriall · 2025-05-08T21:06:36+00:00

How tf did I end up on this side of Reddit

Title	Gender is a social construct therefore Toxic Masculinity cannot exist.
Author	Muki47
Upvotes	46
Comments	61
Date	May 7, 2025 3:23 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1kgnmcp/gender_is_a_social_construct_therefore_toxic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/gender-is-a-social-construct-therefore-toxic.1551701 https://theredarchive.com/post/1551701

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