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Let's talk about white privilege

Fast-Mongoose-4989

April 9, 2022
24 upvotes
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates

"The Lives of Poor White People | The New Yorker" https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-lives-of-poor-white-people/amp

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Post Information
Title Let's talk about white privilege
Author

Fast-Mongoose-4989

Upvotes 24
Comments 37
Date April 9, 2022 5:19 AM UTC
(4 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/tzmaa0/lets_talk_about_white_privilege/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/lets-talk-about-white-privilege.1110667
https://theredarchive.com/post/1110667
Top posts by Fast-Mongoose-4989

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Comments

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate[M] [score hidden] 4 years ago stickied comment (9 children) | Copy Link

Though this topic may not appear to be directly related to male issues, I'm going to allow it. Note that this article was written in 2016, and that merely months later many white working-class men voted for Trump. I think it is important to understand the reasons, and how we could possibly reconnect with them and bring them back to the left.

It also indirectly touches on issues that affect men, and if we want to prevent men from radicalizing and being seduced by the right, we need to gain a deeper understanding of the issues and the process of radicalization.

I especially liked one of the core ideas of the article: “Where does blame stop and sympathy begin?”

[–]Nachtlicht_7 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't understand how these men can be blamed for voting for Trump by mainstream left. This is ridiculous.

[–]a-man-from-earth8 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Indeed. Andrew Yang understood this very well. But who was listening?

[–]MelissaMiranti-2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I absolutely understand how they can be blamed for voting for a grifter. I blame them.

[–]helloiseeyou20206 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Great synopsis. It's a real sadness that this completely reasonable summary of the issues would be controversial almost anywhere else.

[–]Vandechoz6 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think as a rule you should require an OP for seemingly off-topic cases like this to at least make some attempt to explain how something is related to male advocacy. You shouldn't need to try to rationalize that explanation yourself in a sticky post, it's their responsibility in my opinion.

[–]a-man-from-earth3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

As a rule that's what I do. But sometimes I make exceptions.

[–]shit-zen-giggles5 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

if we want to prevent men from radicalizing and being seduced by the right, we need to gain a deeper understanding of the issues and the process of radicalization

Everything you need to know has already been said in 2016: Johnathan Pie - President Trump: How & Why...

As the saying goes:

I didn't leave the left. The Left left me.

[–]jerk-o1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDL3Yjl31K8

[–]shit-zen-giggles2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Great vid indeed.

[–]SomeLo5er 25 points26 points27 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Because the radical feminism agenda starts with attacking the white straight man, it’s relevant to keep this post in here.

Feminism has done a great job including people of colour in their grievances as a way to gain even more traction. That’s why in the black community the idea of feminism is welcomed with open arms by both women and men. Most blacks I have met judge the white man infinitely more harshly than they judge the white woman because feminism has done a great job at painting the white woman as the first victim of the white man. Just by being the ones “raising awareness” about racial oppression and virtue signalling against the white “patriarchy”, the white female receives the forgiveness of the black community. Such a tiny price to pay in my opinion. In a feminist utopia, the white women in power won’t have to offer their seats to ethnic women, remember only the white men in power are going to be the ones being forced to let go of their positions. Well played white woman, well played.

[–]hendrixskileft-wing male advocate 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminism almost came to a correct realization: that white women have privilege. Now, let's qualify that: some subset of feminism believes that white women have privilege over black women. What they fail to realize is that white women are also have privilege over black men. They also fail to realize that white women were slave owners and were always complicit with both the enslavement and the continued subjugation of blacks in America.

It is a fact that as a white man I benefit from privilege relative to most black men. For example: I get harassed by the police less than my black brother-in-law who can simply be walking down the street and get patted down in front of his kids for no discernible reason. another example: it's easier for me to find corporate jobs because my name my accent and my skin color. etc. etc.

I do think it's a men's issue how black men are treated. I also think it's detrimental to the men's movement if I were to deny that black men face men's issues from different angles than what I experience.

[–]PhoenixJones23 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd argue that if black women having issues is linked with feminism them the same can be said about black men and men's issues.

[–]Cunari 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminists will just gaslight and say that white privilege is intersectional and that it just means you're disadvantage to your skin color(which is not true for example albinos) when 95% of the time it is used to imply that all white people are privileged.

[–]Maephia 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

White privilege is just rich privilege under a false name.

[–]griii2left-wing male advocate 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I could not agree more. I was born in a country with no significant non-white minority (eastern Europe), does it mean that everybody is privileged? Give me a break.

[–]Fast-Mongoose-4989[S] 14 points15 points16 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Most of the whites and blacks our poor in both America and Canada in America there are services provided by the government to blacks and other minority but non for the whites who pay for it with taxes, where's the privilege in being neglected by the government.

In Canada conservatives call poor whites lazy and the liberals and ndp call them racist and privilege.

So white is white privilege?

Sure you go to jail for less time but that's it most poor whites have the exact same opertunitys as poor minority at least in Canada.

So I ask again what is white privilege?

[–]SomeLo5er 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not a white man but I feel bad for white men that were born in rough socio-economical conditions, I really do. The fact they have to deal with these glorified “victimized” groups shoving their virtue signalling down their throats constantly, blaming them for the inequalities caused by the very same capitalism that couldn’t care less if they were white. It is so inhuman and callous coming from people claiming to want a better world.

[–]Sydnaktik 16 points17 points18 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

This is a very tricky topic for a very simple reason: it is one of the main gateways used by white supremacists to convert people over to racism and to the far right. People who follow down that path often end up dehumanizing blacks, other people of color and immigrants. And to be clear, dehumanizing ultimately means that you just don't care at all about whether the people who were dehumanized live or die, starve to death, get tortured etc...

In short, this is a dangerous topic and because of that it must be approached with care.

But at the same time, it is a very legitimate topic (that's why white supremacists find it an effective gateway).

The core complaint here is to do with intersectional feminist' imprecise and incorrect way to do intersectionality which when applied through laws and regulations leaves some groups even more victimized and oppressed than they were before.

And specifically the group of people who are being double oppressed in this way are poor white men. Poor white men suffer from most of the same problems that disadvantaged minorities suffer from. But while disadvantaged minorities are often recipients of programs to compensate for these disadvantages. Poor white men see fewer of these kinds of problems being available to them and they get unfairly socially blamed for the apparent success of rich white men.

The fact that this topic is so frequently and successfully used by white supremacists to gain converts enables misandrist feminists to shut down discussion on this topic by levying accusations of racism on anyone trying to bring it up. Which has the unfortunate side effect of turning some of these people into actual racists.

I think that most sensible people recognize this issue. It's extremely difficult, at least for me, to understand the magnitude of the problem because it is so controversial and there is misinformation coming from all sides on this topic.

I think the article shows the right way to move forward in public on this topic. Stay clear of accusations of bad behavior on the part of misandrist feminists. Don't dwell on the topic of white privilege or comparison with minorities. But focus on the actual impact of the lack of effective support for poor white people, and especially poor white men.

And mind you, while intersectional feminism seems to be promoting programs for minorities. More and more, their efforts are focused on making these programs help primarily or exclusively female minorities. And it seems that these programs have historically been very ineffective at helping blacks to become self sufficient. So while racists will try and make poor white men feel jealous of the assistance that poor black men receive, at the end of the day things are pretty sucky for most poor people regardless of skin color.

And while a well functioning society will try to minimize the number of disenfranchised unproductive people by helping them become productive and powerful. It's just not in human nature to look at people they see as different from them and invest in making them more powerful.

[–]raclnp 14 points15 points16 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

People who follow down that path often end up dehumanizing blacks, other people of color and immigrants. And to be clear, dehumanizing ultimately means that you just don't care at all about whether the people who were dehumanized live or die, starve to death, get tortured etc...

It certainly is. The tricky part to understand here, people can be and are racist against whites as well. And the gaslighting that happens regarding this is very damaging, since when you are constantly questioned about how people judge or treat you, you can't defend properly.

This wrong treatment and gaslighting actually makes people ready for gaslighting from racist supremacists. Because those who bullied white people are exactly the same, so it does feel familiar just with polarity reversed.

The only solution is listening and caring, which has declined in general. It's everyone against everyone, and this is not by accident. Divide and conquer at it again, using ingroup bias to make people fight each other, and then rule over them.

[–]SomeLo5er 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If I was the elite, that would be my strategy. Cause issues they would blame each other for, watch them burn themselves off and enjoy the damn show. A battle between peasants to determine who is the morally superior of all while I stay rich and untouchable

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is a very tricky topic for a very simple reason: it is one of the main gateways used by white supremacists to convert people over to racism and to the far right.

All the more reason for us to not ignore it, and to offer an alternative.

[–]jerk-o 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I do think that is a reason why Trump won in 2016. How much time did Hillary and the MSM talk about "The First Female President"? Remember Hillary's "deplorables" speech? "Vote for me to be the first female President" "You can put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the 'Basket of Deplorables.'"

[–]Fast-Mongoose-4989[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for the well thought out response and I agree with what you say.

It true it's yoused as a gateway to white supremacy but at the same time it needs to be discussed.

[–]AmputatorBotapproved bot 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It looks like OP posted an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of concerns over privacy and the Open Web.

Maybe check out the canonical page instead: http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-lives-of-poor-white-people


I'm a bot | Why & About | Summon: u/AmputatorBot

[+]reverbiscrap -11 points-10 points-9 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Coming for all the smoke today, I see 🤣

When its daylight, see about some responses, but I lack faith in any discussion being honest.

[–]Fast-Mongoose-4989[S] 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm confused can you please clarify?

[+]reverbiscrap -10 points-9 points-8 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You are looking for smoke. There are a fair few posters here that would come chomping at the bit to challenge your assertion. Hell, I'm one of them, but more often, such discussions become disingenuous almost from the third post in, so shrug

Even then, its late, and I've had 3 whiskeys already, so I may tackle this tomorrow. You would like get less pushback on this from the mensrights sub, for particular reasons that I am clearly dancing around lol.

[–]Fast-Mongoose-4989[S] 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So I guess I'm going to find out this reason your dancing around tomorrow.

I'm honestly confused but thanks for explaining

[–]Sydnaktik -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I wrote a big post on this. But the short answer is that this topic is the argument used by racists to convert MRAs to the far right. So it's very controversial.

[–]Fast-Mongoose-4989[S] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

OK thank you

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How about a daylight response then?

[–]rochesterslim -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

i mean…not really a men’s issue. More of a human issue, both genders.

[–]Sydnaktik 22 points23 points24 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The classic complaint is that intersectional feminism argues for assistance for women and minorities without consideration for economic class. Leaving specifically poor white men without any of the assistance they should be entitled to in a fair society.

So, in that sense, it is a men's rights issue.

[–]rochesterslim 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

i get you but not for me. i don’t think feminists care about minority men either. minority women yes, but only because they’re fellow women.

[–]Sydnaktik 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I tend to agree about how feminism overall don't care about black men.

But they do use minorities in general to help increase support for women (aka, lumping in women as recipients for aid and assistance that they've establish minorities need). So even if the intent is to only help women, the end result may often just help women and minorities. Leaving only white men without assistance. In theory.

But I just don't know what happens in practice. And I think there's a lot of misinformation on the topic coming from racists and self-censoring of information coming from everyone else out of fear of appearing racist.

My uninformed guess is that, overall, poor black men in the US still have it much worse than poor white men. But I'm less convinced that it's the same in the UK, as the UK has a lot more assistance programs than the US and these programs are highly discriminatory (in that they put white men at the bottom of the list).

[–]rochesterslim 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

yes. but also black ppl are not the only minority. not even close.

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