RIP Bell Hooks

a-man-from-earth · 2021-12-16T07:44:54+00:00

This post was reported as violating rule 1, but the mods deem this to be without merit. In fact, bell hooks even wrote a book about masculinity.

SpanishM · 2021-12-16T13:54:30+00:00

This is from her book Feminism is for Everybody:

Males as a group have and do benefit the most from patriarchy, from the assumption that they are superior to females and should rule over us. But those benefits have come with a price. In return for all the goodies men receive from patriarchy, they are required to dominate women, to exploit and oppress us, using violence if they must to keep patriarchy intact.

Most men find it difficult to be patriarchs. Most men are disturbed by hatred and fear of women, by male violence against women, even the men who perpetuate this violence. But they fear letting go of the benefits. They are not certain what will happen to the world they know most intimately if patriarchy changes. So they find it easier to passively support male domination even when they know in their minds and hearts that it is wrong.

As u/Deadlocked02 commented on FeminismUncensored:

Not that I expect everyone to see how deeply disturbing this is. Too many people are already desensitized to this level of dehumanization of men, sadly.

I replied:

And yet they wonder "how were all genocides possible". Well, they happened because some people dehumanized certain groups.

They will never learn from history.

She was into postmodern philosophy, which explains her use of "Critical Theory".

The hatred of men doesn't come from the air, it comes from certain people, and it isn't gonna stop until we name and shame these people, and hold them accountable for spreading that hate.

I can accept the possibility that some of them actually don't know what they are doing, but that doesn't exempt them from their responsibility.

Reaper12543 · 2021-12-16T13:18:54+00:00

In all due respect I don't think she had the merit to define what manhood is and try to fix masculinity. at-least her vision was better than that of Clementine Ford(professional manhater)

Hooks inspired the whole "patriarchy harms men too!!" dog whistle that modern feminists use as a kneejerk response

SuspicousEggSmell · 2021-12-16T06:42:00+00:00

Ideas are built by disagreement and dissection. Everyone has their biases and nobody is able to perceive or account for the totality of reality. Because of that, while there are ideas we must dispute, it is important we be open to others, even if just for a sliver of truth they provide, as it will strengthen our ideas and our ability to help others.

As for Bell Hooks herself, while we can talk about the flaws in her approach and her invocation of patriarchy theory (as we should, considering her ideas are her work) I think it’s worth acknowledging that she seemed to have genuine desire to help everyone, had empathy for others, and took a stand against some of her more hateful contemporaries. I think most notable is that quote about not just loving men for doing, but loving for being. It’s both much more acknowledgment of women’s effects on men, both good and bad, but also I think shows much more genuine empathy and sympathy then we often see from feminists when they say stuff like “patriarchy hurts men too” which often seems to focus more on men needing to perform correctly in the feminist eye. Her ideas may also be useful for us as a way to bridge the gap between men and women’s issues, particularly because unlike other feminists when discussing men’s issues, she seems a lot more willing to talk about the way women contribute, rather than play as much into the male=perpetrator female=victim with small exceptions that many others play

SuspicousEggSmell · 2021-12-16T03:56:54+00:00

Out of curiosity, what is YKW?

Banake · 2021-12-16T12:59:27+00:00

I understand that some here would find Terrence Real as too close to a menslib style of advocacy and not would not be fans of his views, that said, Terrence Real still used Warren Farrell and Robert Bly as sources in his book, so I find nice that bell hooks praised him, as at least it offers a bridge that could be used for dialogue.

ParanoidAgnostic · 2021-12-16T22:59:40+00:00

I feel somewhat uncomfortable speaking ill of the dead here and I believe bell hooks did mean well when it came to men. However, the ideology she was deeply invested in and that she promoted passionately is the foundation for the misandry we see from the worst parts of feminism.

I think she should be recognised for being one of the best feminist thinkers when it comes to men but we should remember that does not mean her work, in total, was good for men, just that it was less harmful than others'.

She is frequently held up by feminists as an example of feminism having a healthy attitude to men and I think that is dangerous. While she certainly has said things which sound sympathetic to men, her underlying philosophy is still the oppressor-oppressed gender dichotomy and such a world view will never have positive results for men.

A few years ago, on another subreddit, I made a series of lengthy posts on my thoughts as I read "Feminism is for everybody." This goes into far more detail on my feelings, positive and negative, on bell hooks' ideas.

https://np.reddit.com/r/FeMRADebates/comments/3fyx2f/feminism_is_not_for_me_summary_of_my_thoughts_on/

a-man-from-earth · 2021-12-16T07:46:13+00:00

Personally, I'm no fan. Yes, she had some good insights, but she still remained a feminist using misandrist ideas such as patriarchy.

TheLWMA · 2021-12-16T03:59:35+00:00

I never heard of this woman.

But to give my rather uneducated opinion on this topic, I don't think someone doing a few good deeds would negate the whole heap of bad that they did.

Sewblon · 2021-12-16T10:08:19+00:00

Honestly, I can't sign off on the idea that males have value simply for being. Nothing has value simply for being what it is. All value is context dependent. Water only has value in the context of life forms based on water. Gold only has value in the context of metal working. Males are the same way. But so is everyone else. More importantly, Christianity disproves Bell Hook's thesis about patriarchal culture only valuing males for what they do. You will be hard pressed to find a Christian who denies that males and females both have inherent value, because the book of Genesis teaches that male and female were both made in the image of God, and being God-like equates to value in Christianity. And yet, that same book declares that husbands shall rule over wives, and their has been at least one popular Christian author, C.S. Lewis, who argued that husbands ruling over wives is the way that things should be, which is patriarchal by any conventional definition of that term. Therefore, holding a Patriarchal worldview doesn't prevent someone from believing that males have intrinsic value.

Title	RIP Bell Hooks
Author	UnHope20
Upvotes	76
Comments	48
Date	December 16, 2021 2:21 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/rhg0e8/rip_bell_hooks/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/rip-bell-hooks.1092223 https://theredarchive.com/post/1092223

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