Did I pick the wrong time to start?

En_sigma · 2015-04-13T11:59:10+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Daddy45 · 2015-04-13T12:32:57+00:00

Her finishing shot last night was "I can't wait until this is all over with Mum so I can leave you". What the hell am I supposed to say to that given the situation?

You're not supposed to say anything. There's no comeback to that. You need to prepare right now -- mentally, emotionally, financially and legally -- for the impending divorce.

whinemoreplease · 2015-04-13T09:17:13+00:00

Focus on your happiness. Always focus on your happiness unless the other person is worth focusing on.

TrainingTheBrain · 2015-04-13T11:20:45+00:00

Through this post it's easy to see that you're exhausted from managing everything while you're wife is trying to get some closure with her Mom. You're the Family's Alpha, you're their leader, this is the burden you bear so try to find enjoyment in it; find comfort in this discomfort.

You say you've been together for 16 years, yet you don't seem to really know you're wife at all. When to distance, when to approach, when to call, when to comfort, and how to speak to her. What the fuck dude, you've been together for almost 2 decades...

You need to be able to tell your wife that you get her Mom dying fucking sucks (word it a little better), but she still has a role in YOUR family to fill and her kids need some attention.

I don't know you or your family. But if you have read NMMNG and MMSLP then you should have at least the most basic understanding of what is going on in her mind. Take that knowledge and use it. Don't randomly approach, tactically approach her. Have conversations about the right things at the right time.

Your enjoyment of life has nothing to do with her, so while she may be going through this shit and feeling tired/depressed/angry you need to be that rock that reels her ass back in and always have that smile on because life is good.

Read, lift, enjoy the time with the kids, improve your marriage by leading your family.

EDIT All of this is a long way of saying, "No." there is no wrong time to start living your life like a Man.

jacktenofhearts · 2015-04-13T10:48:20+00:00

In my first marriage, I went through something similar. Ex-wife had a loved one with health problems and it seemed like I couldn't do anything right. If I was "emotionally supportive," then she'd snipe about how I really wanted to help her, I'd get some chores done. So then I'd focus on just taking care of business, figuring it would free her from the burden of worrying about bills or cleaning or whatever. Then she'd bitch at me for being "a robot" who didn't care about her emotional distress.

What my wife wanted was an oak. I have the luxury of hindsight now, and seeing I was most definitely not an oak in my first marriage. For pretty much out entire marriage I was lazy, or irresponsible, or reckless, or some combination thereof. I rarely maintained frame. When she challenged my frame, my response was a volatile reaction that would destroy my frame, and hers, and anyone else's within a 20 mile radius. I suppose I never supplicated to full beta status, but I was definitely not alpha in any sense of the word.

I say all this because, despite our raging fights and eventual divorce, physical intimacy with my Ex-wife was solid until that time her loved one was sick. Fighting and yelling still stoked the gina tingles when she was angry. But she wasn't angry that time. Sure, she still yelled the same, but she was probably sad and frustrated and depressed more than anything. And I was a pathetic tree sapling who thought he could pretend to be an oak and get upset when she considered anything I did inferior.

So I say all this because I suspect your wife is longing for an oak and is resentful that you're not. There are men she imagines could say, "I know how hard this is for you, but I've got your back," and she'd believe them, and she's frustrated you're not one of those men. As you're realizing, transitioning to becoming a more attractive and capable man takes time, and requires focus on yourself. And that what she'd want long-term, but means you're withdrawing in the short term. Hence your Hobson's choice. Supplicate to her, and she may stop complaint about you being "unsupportive," but she'll never rally appreciate that support. Or keep following your MAP and be accused of being a heartless jerk who doesn't even care about what she's going through.

If I were you, I'd err on doing the latter. However I'd focus on improvements that make you a more "capable" person. Fix any deficiencies you have that make you irresponsible or lazy. Get organized and get committed to whatever your goals are. If you think your kids are distressed, put together a PLAN on how you can manage their weekends.

These are "oak moves." Your wife will continue to hamster about being unsupportive. Ignore her. Your refrain should be, "these efforts are supporting this family. If you don't care for them then you can leave the family."

. You picked a tough time to start your RP journey, because you're being tested well before you're ready. Your wife has a major life stressor and she has judged you as inadequate. But blue pilling it until her mother dies doesn't fix that. She'll just be resentful of you and resentful of your pathetic attempts to fix things and/or make her feel better.

So you did pick a tough time. But is it a bad time? I say no. Because the only worse time to start than today is tomorrow.

RBuddDwyer · 2015-04-13T10:19:42+00:00

Take this as a chance to ditch the counseling and show that you can be just fine without her. Lead the family and let her have the space to do what she needs to do. She is going to lash out at you for dumb things. Do not take any verbal or emotional abuse, but understand where she is coming from. From The Sixteen Commandments of Poon

XV. Maintain your state control You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, shit tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.

IV. Don’t play by her rules If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.

Bottom line: keep improving yourself, keep moving toward your goals, show her that you will be just fine without her. Be ready for some comfort tests and a lot of shit tests, pass all of them. Do not give her any ultimatums until things are done with her mother. Give her the space she needs, but don't forget about yourself.

Someone else here on the sub (I forget who) was in a similar situation where their wife had to leave for a month to take care of a parent. Look for their posts

HeManPageBoy · 2015-04-13T11:23:43+00:00

My opinions only: RP is divided between: 1)Being the man 2)Demanding the respect that being the man deserves.

There is never a bad time for #1. Become the best man you can be.

2 is probably poor timing for your marriage. Your wife needs you to be strong but not demanding right now. Don't get upset at her outbursts, just let her know you are there for her during this time, and will be there after.

Dev_on · 2015-04-13T14:23:29+00:00

While most situations are unique, realize that you can't take her straight talk... she isn't complaining about what she's saying, she's unloading her emotional state onto you, and if the words are true, then it's a nice coincidence.

She is stressed and mad, and will impart that on you, thats her purpose behind language, not to convey information.

As for the obvious, others here have said it good enough

mordanus · 2015-04-13T12:52:19+00:00

Every time I have reached out to hug her she has pushed me away.

That is a big indicator of her mindset. During this time of trial for her she doesn't look to you as someone who can help. You are not her rock. She doesn't respect you or trust you at this point. The final statement is the worst though.

"I can't wait until this is all over with Mum so I can leave you".

What I would say to that is "Why wait? I'll go get the paperwork." I know she is saying this from a place of hurt and that you have an obligation to try to fix it but that is a cold and hurtful thing to say. That is her openly telling you that you mean nothing to her and she isn't willing to work on it. She is only willing to wait because it would burden her more to divorce you now than later. Why help her with her burdens any more? She is your wife in name only.

Countpudyoola · 2015-04-13T13:59:26+00:00

There's no wrong time to improve yourself.

A few years ago my mom suddenly took ill from an acute case of leukemia. She was given a 6 month prognosis but being over a certain age they don't encourage chemo. Brought on by a lifetime of smoking. And I always thought it was lung cancer that got you. Anyway, my wife took care of the kid and more of the house while I went and helped her flush her picc lines and essentially visited her more often. When the final time came for me to be at the hospital on rotating shifts for the last horrible 2 weeks. She also just looked after the kid and kept the house running.

What I was going through, she couldn't help me with. I didn't want her to either. The one time I broke down I made sure it was a time I was alone.

Women are more open with needing others sometimes, but not you in this way either. It's now unfortunately convenient she can lump this in and paint a scapegoat onto your face. She'll either come out of this learning how to cope healthily or just lump more onto a willing participant.

Be a rock. Do what you know you need to for you and your kids. Pick up some slack while she's gone , but don't take emotional offloading.

Anytime this shit starts I'd start going to script "I feel horrible for what you're going through. I wish I could take that burden away, but I'm not going to like this." and then walk off.

Keep on keeping on.

SexistFlyingPig · 2015-04-13T12:55:25+00:00

Her mom will die. People die. That's what happens.

Your wife "going through a living nightmare" is one of her own choosing. Her emotional state isn't something you can control, and it's not really something you want to control. She needs to experience the full range of human emotion.

During this time, you work and you lift. There's nothing that you can do about the fact that your mother-in-law is dying. Be someone that your wife can go to to get away from her mother's dying. Listen to her complain about every little detail, and offer NO suggestions.

Be the man.

Mrswhiskers · 2015-04-13T15:56:20+00:00

I'm going to give you some insight as a woman who went through the same thing as your wife. My mom was diagnosed with ALS and for 2 years I helped take care of her. It's not quite as quickly as your mother in law but it's similar.

Sex is going to go away for a while/not get better. It's just not on our mind during this type of stress. It's hard to push the thought of a dying loved one out of your head while trying to have sex and it makes you dryer than the Sierra desert.

She's going to say a lot of things that she may be thinking right now but doesn't completely mean. I'm not excusing your wifes words and behavior just trying to explain them. This is similar to the "anger phase" you typically see in TRP. She's fucking mad and sad that her mom is dying. She's in pain and wants other people to feel the same pain that she's feeling. It's called displaced anger. I had the clarity of mind to explain it to my husband that I'm mad at something that I can't hurt and I can't fix. That anger is going to come out somewhere and at something and you're the closest thing to her. It sucks. Just try to remember she's not mad at you, she's mad at her mother dying.

Counseling should continue. Either privately or together. You shouldn't stop it but shift the focus of it a bit. Dumping the extra stress of husband saying your marriage and sex life is inadequate while trying to say goodbye to a loved one is going to break your marriage further. Not that it isn't true but it's not going to help right now. She needs someone to unload on. Try out betterhelp.com it's a lot cheaper than in person counseling (about $35 a week for unlimited talking) and it's honestly AMAZING to just be able to type out things to a doctor on the web and let it all off your chest.

And yet the wife complains that I'm not calling her to ask how she is or what she needs. Every time I have done this previously she has said she doesn't want to talk.

Maybe try text messages? Little things like "I love you, I hope your day is going better." or "Give your mom a hug for me". It allows her to think about a response while not taking her away from whatever she's doing and she will be able to discreetly talk about her pain with out voicing it out loud around her mother? Maybe try texting her a little joke to make her smile and forget about everything for a moment.

Best of luck.

2015-04-13T19:48:54+00:00

she longed for a partner who knew how to love and look after her ... Her finishing shot last night was "I can't wait until this is all over with Mum so I can leave you".

She may have someone already in the works or lined up. Or she may just be falling apart because he mother is dying. It's probably the latter.

Every time I have reached out to hug her she has pushed me away.

Yep, you're doing it wrong. Here's how to do it right: Be a strong man. Once you are clearly and obviously in charge of your life, your wife will automatically come to you for comfort. You're the shelter, but the shelter does not go to her.

snowedinind · 2015-04-14T01:40:14+00:00

Did I pick the wrong time to start?

No, you didn't. If you care to read my post history, you'll see sort of a reverse situation: my father passed away and I had to deal with that and my wife's normal string if bullshit. Like others have said much better than I will, taking care of business includes taking care of yourself. Do what you have to do and make every decision as if it's the right one.

AZTRP · 2015-04-15T01:01:32+00:00

MMSLP talks about balancing alpha and beta traits in LTR and Marriages.

It sounds like you need a little beta in certain spots but season heavily with alpha.

For example, if she mentions she has to take mom to the hospital or wherever ask some questions about when, when finished, what's it about. Then surreptitiously set a reminder on your phone for 15 minutes before and 15 minutes after. Choose one of those to call her and check in.

If she doesn't want to talk, ok. Don't get hurt by it, you did your part. Near the end of the day, ask her how her day was and cheer the good things and jeer the bad things. Don't let it turn into a counseling session though. 30m to 1hr should be more than enough. If she's stuck on one detail, ask a question that'll steer the conversation elsewhere.

Keep an eye out for the big sigh, the big breath. At that moment, take her and hug her. A nice comforting hug, it's for her, not you. If she tries to pull away pull her back and say something similar to "I know you've got a lot on your shoulders, relax for a moment and know I'm here" aim for 10 seconds. It activates a hormone release that'll help her relax and feel loved.

NiftyDolphin · 2015-04-13T15:11:11+00:00

The biggest challenge I'm facing is the fact that my wife is going through a living nightmare with her Mum and I'm struggling to sense where the line is between improving me and supporting her.

When in doubt, favor improving yourself over supporting her. You're not her servant.

She is spending every waking moment with her Mum which, after several months had put huge pressure on me to hold down my job and manage our two kids.

You're doing what you can with what you have. Good on ya.

Yesterday she complained that I wasn't giving her the emotional support she needed and that she longed for a partner who knew how to love and look after her.

This is her treating you (badly) like a servant. Using her "victim status" she's looking to extract more value without giving anything extra. She is taking what you're doing extra for the family for granted. She is doing this because she views you as a servant. Servants serve.

Her finishing shot last night was "I can't wait until this is all over with Mum so I can leave you". What the hell am I supposed to say to that given the situation?

"Sounds like a plan!"

Edit: /u/mordanus has a better reply. My "Sounds like a plan" implies that you don't give a fuck (she doesn't have the value to threaten you) but it's still passive. His "Why wait, I'll get the paperwork" both strongly expresses that she doesn't have authority over you and that you are willing to move things along on your timetable.

BluepillProfessor · 2015-04-13T15:39:45+00:00

I'm struggling to sense where the line is between improving me and supporting her.

You do both. We call this an Oak move that provides both comfort (Beta) and Strong masculine support (Alpha).

I can't wait until this is all over with Mum so I can leave you

This is not acceptable in any universe and I don't care who is dying. All of use are dying- it is just a matter of when.

Your wife sees you as the Beta provider who is her personal emotional tampon who she is free to bleed on but to whom she is not obligated to have sex. This is why she refuses physical comfort from you.

Honestly, I would check out of this relationship given her attitude. That is the surest way to save it. Pull away. Let her deal with those emotions on her own. Try to provide comfort every day (don't let her confuse it with you initiating for sex) and hold frame by being elusive, absent and stoic.

TLDR: You need to up the Alpha AND the Beta in this relationship- and you need a shit-ton of I don't give a fuck thrown in.

RedCML · 2015-04-13T21:54:22+00:00

Continue working on yourself. This is not about other people, this is about you. Becoming a stronger, more capable physical person is about you and your personal power.

The way your wife is treating you is something she learned. Who did she learn it from? Without a doubt: her mother. Now her mother is dieing, and is either in pain or on narcotics (hospice is good with narcotics) so she has very little barriers when talking with your wife.

Your wife may come to her senses afterward, or she won't. Continue to read, continue going to the gym, continue caring for your children. If it ends after this, that sucks and it is your wife's loss.

Mostly though, you should try not to give a crap what she says to you and listen to what she says to the children. She might be in an insane state. If she says these things to you, she might also be conveying a message to the kids that they interpret as, "I don't love you. I don't want you. I wish you were not my burden." Protect these kids if you see anything like this.

UEMcGill · 2015-04-13T13:29:23+00:00

Guys are touching on it, and the advice here is solid, but I want to reinforce something. Red pill is amoral. There is no right or wrong time. It is the only time.

Your wife is an emotional terrorist. If my wife dropped the "I'm gone" I would fucking pack her bags for her. Let that settle with her.

2015-04-13T17:14:55+00:00

Dude.

You control the relationship, not anyone else. If you truly become Alpha, not only will your life change, but your wife will recognize your strength. Go to the main sub, read more, learn more....and then act more. You aren't banging other chicks, but the rest of it grows you as a person.

If things progress, then you're in a better place rather than starting after she leaves you. If she sees you as someone that stands tall, then your value becomes higher. But in reality, what she thinks of you does not matter.

16 months to become RP is far too long, this shit should be almost overnight. Go Monk Mode and realize that there's more out there.

If you're afraid you aren't confident, you aren't Alpha, well no shit. It takes work. Get off your ass and do what's necessary. Lift. Meditate. Hobbies. Be social. Pass the fucking shit tests. Be a leader, man. It ain't easy, but nothing worthwhile is.

jons_throwaway · 2015-04-13T13:07:21+00:00

Tell her why wait.

Title	Did I pick the wrong time to start?
Author	casual_shanter
Upvotes	10
Comments	29
Date	April 13, 2015 8:30 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/32f7c4/did_i_pick_the_wrong_time_to_start/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/did-i-pick-the-wrong-time-to-start.202162 https://theredarchive.com/post/202162

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