Constant Liberal Bashing

Rabid_Pink_Princess · 2017-07-18T08:53:54+00:00

extreme anti-liberal position of the seeming majority of this sub?

Can you make some example, please?

I'm Italian, so I have the luxury of not taking a position, but my outside perspective is that the majority here is left leaning. There is SJW and Feminist bashing, but that's something smart left leaning people do too.

If you say something like this you should give at least two examples so people can discuss it.

alclarkey · 2017-07-18T11:55:00+00:00

Obama was a liberal and he was responsible for "Dear colleague", NOW holds all kinds of liberals positions that have nothing to do with women's rights. There are a lot of problems men face because of policies enacted by liberals. And now on the flip side, we have Betsy Devos willing to talk to MRAs and axe "Dear colleague". Yeah I can see why there is anti-liberal bias.

JakeDC · 2017-07-18T12:33:14+00:00

A couple of related issues are at work here - the fluidity/misuse of the term "liberal" and the fact that neither party in the US today is really liberal.

Liberalism is, at root, a philosophical position. It has an origin, a history, and a set of fundamental principles. Classical liberalism basically contains the principles upon which United States was founded. Classical liberalism is complicated, as everything is, but real liberals fundamentally honor individual rights and individual responsibility. And while they believe the government can and should, at least in certain cases, take role in improving spciety, real liberals do not believe that such progress can or should be made by sacrificing the rights and dignity of individuals. Classical liberalism is also based on the idea that there is an objective reality, that we can learn about it, and that facts make a difference when constructing law and policies. In my view, men's rights flow more naturally from a classical liberal position then they do from conservative principles.

Unfortunately, what we typically call liberalism today has very little (nothing?) to do with classical liberalism. This is because today's "liberalism" is really a leftism that came about as a reaction to and denial of classical liberalism. While Classical liberalism is based on traditional Western philosophical thought, SJW "liberalism" is based on neo-Marxist and postmodern thinking. It is fundamentally illiberal. For example, the collectivism of SJW thought denies the fundamental dignity of individuals and, therefore, runs counter to liberalism. In addition, the subjective nature of reality, which is a fundamental principle of far-left thought, runs counter to the liberal notion that reality is objective and discoverable, that facts are necessary to shape society, and that moral principles or unchanging.

Unfortunately, over the past few decades, actual liberalism has become increasingly marginalized in Western politics. In the United States, neither party reflects classical liberalism in any significant way. And over time, the term "liberal" has (incorrectly) become synonymous with "left" and is increasingly used to refer to far left, and illiberal, positions and philosophies.

It seems clear to me that most people on this sub that identify as liberal, myself included, are classical liberals, and have little affinity for the far left or the way in which the Democratic Party embodies and perpetuates far-left views. In the US, classical liberals really do not have a party, and this is true in much of the West generally.

So, where does that leave somebody like me? When voting, I need to choose between the two existing parties. I don't like either. However, while men's rights are important to me, other issues are similar important to me. Personally, I rail against the intrusion of religion into government, policy-making, and education. I also dislike anti-science viewpoints and policy. Fighting this bullshit is as important to me as fighting for men's rights. On the whole, Democrats are slightly better at fighting for the issues I care about then Republicans are. So, more often than not, my vote goes to a Democratic candidate. I am not satisfied with this state of affairs of course, and my real wish is that the Democratic party would be liberal again. Crossing fingers. What I don't want is for the country to drift further right.

Lethn · 2017-07-18T12:52:27+00:00

There's plenty of support for liberals who don't do male bashing, Christina Hoff Sommers, David Rubin, I suppose you could count Joe Rogan amongst that mix and so on. This whole narrative of perpetually offended left wingers that this sub is specifically 'attacking' their ideology is bullshit.

Am I alone in thinking we could get more done if we actually worked on issues and specifics than just generally attacking people with a political leaning you don't 100% agree with?

I think people who make these kind of statements have consistently shown me they have an ulterior motive where they intend to enforce censorship on what MRAs can and cannot say and they can fuck off. This is all how it starts, an encroaching well meaning 'advisement' that turns into a full blown authoritarian movement of the likes of which we're having to deal with through feminists and anti-capitalists today.

You don't like free speech? Tough shit and yes, if you intend on trying to dictate what issues people can and can't talk about that is a violation of free speech.

MagicTampon · 2017-07-18T13:40:46+00:00

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SodaPalooza · 2017-07-18T16:04:08+00:00

With regard to men's rights and eliminating the pandering to feminists in the United States, you've got absolutely zero chance with the Democratic Party. They actively campaign to the feminists and against MRAs. The previous administration's actions that created the explosion of campus Title IX bullshit is just one example. The leader of the Democratic party was literally campaigning on the concept of "vote for me because I'm a woman".

So the Democrats are the enemy of the Men's Rights movement. Admittedly, Republicans aren't much better. But at least Republicans don't actively pander to feminists and flat-out tell voters that they are going to intentionally pass laws to advance women and oppress men. Trump (who I don't actually consider to be a Republican) seems to actually take some progressive moves towards men's rights.

So while caring about healthcare, public infrastructure, alternative energy and climate change are fine, they aren't really relevant to the men's right movement. And that's what this sub is about. And on that topic - men's rights - Democrats are indisputably the party we are fighting against.

ee4m · 2017-07-18T09:06:56+00:00

Its divide and rule.

I got this from a marxist group https://imgflip.com/i/1snbfm#yYu16IEectdLBMPw.16

I for one can't stand the genderfluid, otherkin, health at every size bullshit many extreme leftists whinge about.

They arent leftists, identity politics has free market economic ideology inside it.

EricAllonde · 2017-07-18T10:12:32+00:00

Not all liberals are regressive

I agree. I'd be happier if everyone got into the habit of saying "regressive" rather than "liberal" in this context, since it's the more precise, accurate term.

Demonspawn · 2017-07-18T12:24:55+00:00

Am I alone in thinking we could get more done if we actually worked on issues and specifics than just generally attacking people with a political leaning you don't 100% agree with?

Simply put: because people here have realized that government is the tool that women use to take from men to give to themselves.

Liberals want to solve problems by more government... more taking from men which, by necessity of politicians answering to women's 56% voting majority, will go more to women than to men.

Conservatives want to solve problems by reducing government interference. That will lead to less Bureaugamy and less government theft going to women.

And that's why as more MRAs figure out what's really going on, they lean more and more conservative: because being a Liberal MRA is like shooting yourself in the foot before a race.

Now, you can be liberal all you want. But when you want to solve the issues by more government, we'll tell you that your liberal ideas are shit as far as MRA desires are concerned.

ninja_3134 · 2017-07-18T08:26:03+00:00

Even though you may have these beliefs, you stand with a party that will never see any change in the unfair treatment of men. If you really cared about Men's Rights, you would stand with a party that's actually going to do something.

What has your party ever done for men?

EsraYmssik · 2017-07-18T08:54:30+00:00

Any other liberal leaning people get tired of the extreme anti-liberal position of the seeming majority of this sub?

Nope. Because I don't see THIS:

extreme anti-liberal position

MraBob · 2017-07-18T09:07:21+00:00

However I do care about healthcare reform, public infrastructure, alternative energy, and climate change.

The problem, idiot, is none of that has anything to do with men's rights.

Depriving men of due process rights on campus does, and guess what? It is a liberal clusterfuck being undone by Trump.

None everything conservatives do is good for men, but if you think feminism better for men you should really pay a visit to Mens Lib and stay there.

falselyaccusedguy234 · 2017-07-18T11:59:14+00:00

Never noticed it, and I am still pretty liberal, though doing the "more conservative as you age" thing.

Swiss_Cheese9797 · 2017-07-18T12:07:24+00:00

Centrist who votes dem checking in. Just cuz I want equal rights don't mean I want call "libtard sent to the moon"

KDulius · 2017-07-18T15:13:34+00:00

It depends where you live; most people here I guess are pissed with US "liberals" who wouldn't know the definition of the word if it beat them with a dictionary.

Liberalims here in the UK is more focused on true Liberalism although the Liberal Democrat Party seems to have forgotten about this. Honestly I think that the Lib Dems could win here in the UK if they returned to classic/ true liberalism rather than attempting to emulate the US Dems

LordFlick · 2017-07-18T08:25:25+00:00

Same here

Mr_MRAnarchist · 2017-07-18T12:45:14+00:00

Yes, you are alone.

If you aren’t a liberal when you’re young, you have no heart, but if you aren’t a middle-aged conservative, you have no brain.

ThePigmanAgain · 2017-07-18T09:58:40+00:00

This place is littered with half-witted right wing retards who can't tell Marx from Obama, chocolate from shit, and their sisters from their wives. Get used to it. If anything, you can always use it as evidence that the Left doesn't have idiocy all to itself!

Badgerz92 · 2017-07-18T13:20:40+00:00

I'll just copy my comment from another recent thread:

Over the last couple of years a lot of people who aren't MRAs have been coming to the sub to push their own political agenda. It got really bad before the mods finally banned blatant political shilling. We were getting multiple pro-Trump/anti-Hillary threads a week that had nothing to do with men's issues. Unfortunately a lot of those people are still around, so now a large number of our users care more about their political agenda than men's rights.

The liberal bashing isn't coming from MRAs, it's coming from people who never even heard of this movement two years ago. They're coming here to push their political views not to discuss men's issues. We've always had conservative MRAs here but those MRAs realized that this was a sub for men's rights, not for other politics.

Aeternalis_ · 2017-07-18T17:27:46+00:00

Liberals and Conservatives alike, as well as leftists and right wingers are not our friends. I am a strict centrist.

Not all liberals are regressive, I for one can't stand the genderfluid, otherkin, health at every size bullshit many extreme leftists whinge about. However I do care about healthcare reform, public infrastructure, alternative energy, and climate change.

Then you're center left.

DavidByron2 · 2017-07-18T22:12:33+00:00

Well liberals with a big L are assholes, but I get tired of the juvenile mislabeling of feminists as socialists when feminists are right wingers.

But feminists do pretend to be on the left don't they?

quackquackoopz · 2017-07-21T09:18:21+00:00

Liberal-leaner here.

No, not tired of it, there isn't enough of it, there needs to be far, far more critique, privately and publicly. To claim back the meaning of liberal means to fight those who have bizarrely taken over the mantle, namely the 'Progressive' movement.

zangerinus · 2017-07-23T15:36:20+00:00

lately this sub has gone to shit with t_d shitposting everything to death

twitterbook arguments aren't valid concerns

nor is so-called "censorship" in most cases

the movement has been sort of hijacked by trump supporters

TacticalEspoinage · 2017-07-18T11:07:01+00:00

Yup, it's getting real Trump-y in this subreddit.

Some guys around here seem determined to live up to everything the feminists say about us.

Title	Constant Liberal Bashing
Author	Beatusnox
Upvotes	15
Comments	86
Date	July 18, 2017 8:17 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/6nzfam/constant_liberal_bashing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/constant-liberal-bashing.917800 https://theredarchive.com/post/917800

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