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[–]ignatiusloyola 138 points139 points140 points 15 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link
The thing to keep in mind is this:
Yeah, there are some deadbeat fathers, and some really despicable men in the world.
But there are also such women as well.
There really isn't a "better" gender, but our society treats men as if they are the "bad" gender.
We don't need to favour men, and we don't need to favour women. We need to take each situation on its own merits and resolve it as an isolated, individual situation. This includes cases of sexism (yes, it still exists), custody, divorce, etc...
[–]existentialdetective 16 points17 points18 points 15 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
Very well spoken, thank you.
[+]sprz -8 points-7 points-6 points 15 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
I wouldn't go so far as to say that men are the "bad" gender. In this instance, men are discriminated against, but women don't have it easier in all aspects of life. For example, in the opposite circumstances that you describe, many women are forced to support a child alone after the father leaves--the father isn't stuck with a baby in his penis. Or consider rape--men do experience it, but not on the scale that women do.
I don't like groups that fight for specific groups rights so much as fighting for equal rights for all. Otherwise you end up with men's rights groups arguing with women's rights groups and nothing gets done.
[–]kloo2yoo 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Or consider rape--men do experience it, but not on the scale that women do.
1in6.org
and frankly, you've shown exactly why we need "groups that fight for specific groups rights so much as fighting for equal rights for all. " because without "men's rights groups arguing with women's rights groups and nothing getting done." you have women's groups controlling the dialogue and noting getting done that benefts men.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
I 100% support the Men's Rights Movement, living the experience myself first-hand. But I do find it interesting that a movement calling for equal treatment with no preference (Women's Movement) is fighting to suppress a movement calling for equal treatment with no preference (Men's Rights).
[–]rabbitspade 14 points15 points16 points 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Perhaps that's because the Women's Movement isn't calling for equality. As the feminst slogan goes: Women who want to be equal to men lack ambition.
[–]MLJHydro 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
That slogan sucks. Why aren't we all egalitarians, again?
[+][deleted] 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]MLJHydro 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
I think our definitions of feminism are different.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Unfortunately many feminists adhere to the view in youAreThirstyNow's comment.
[–]MLJHydro 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
In my experience that isn't true. The loud minority adhere to that view, but every group has their share of crazies. Judging people by what the extremists believe just cause a lot of pain/suffering. Iraq/Afghanistan wars, anyone?
[–]ucantbeserious 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
...domestication of plants and animals. Some one will always have more crops or livestock.
[–]rabbitspade 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Haha, you and kloo2yoo are like good cop bad cop.
[–]ukepriest 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Yes, let's be careful. Feminism was a good movement... it just got a little carried away.
[–]crocodile7 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Communism was a great movement too... until that Lenin guy came along and spoiled the Party. /s
Seriously, there was nothing wrong at all in fighting for workers rights in times when 12-14h days were a norm, people got thrown to prison for debts, and young teenagers were wasting away in factories and mines.
[–]shady8x 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
We still throw people in prison for debts...
[–]crocodile7 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Just alimony / child support these days, as far as I know... it used to be much broader.
[–]ignatiusloyola 7 points8 points9 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Well, that is a very loaded statement. I am not sure many people here will agree.
[–]chili_cheese_dog -3 points-2 points-1 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You seem to be out voted though.
[–]ignatiusloyola 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well, I have 4 votes and you have 3 votes. What is this about being out voted?
[–]badhairguy -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Feminism was a great movement intended to tax the 51% of the population that used to stay at home. It got carried away because the women that were being exploited started thinking it was actually about female empowerment instead of taxes.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This really hits the nail on the head. "our society treats men as if they are the "bad" gender." This is the big key - the man never receives child support or alimony, and gets custody only when the mother is being agreeable or proves herself completely unfit as a parent several times.
[–]NewsWeeks 28 points29 points30 points 15 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
I'm sorry you and your loved ones had to go through that, but we welcome you with open arms here in r/MensRights. If you don't mind, let me offer you a little advice as you get settled into things: 1. You WILL find misogynists here. Please remember that they speak for a small minority, and that most of us aren't like that. 2. You've already demonstrated an open mind by converting. Please keep it open as you read the stories and articles in this forum. We cover everything from circumcision to domestic abuse to family court. There's a lot to consider and not all of it is easy to digest. 3. And finally, please help us spread the word. We're a small community that sometimes gets a bad rap. Every nice word you send on goes a little way toward helping our fellow human beings out. Thanks again and welcome aboard!
[–]AntiFeministMedia 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
Not to annoy the parent of this reply because he/she seems reasonable, but also remember, there are many feminist misandrists that come to this board, and they will argue day is night, even when the sun is shining.
[–]executex 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I know. I got downvoted pretty badly by feminists for making a submission here on mensrights showcasing clear sexism on reddit against men.
[–]MLJHydro 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
On the same note I've been basically verbally attacked on MensRights before for pointing out that not all women are loonies. We all need to understand that there are inequalities for both men and women in this society and that we have to work together to fix them.
MensRights is important because we do generally sweep mens issues under the rug. However, everyone has to keep in mind that using this forum to simply attack women is not productive.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm willing to bet at least some of the misogynists are bitter at being burned and are driven into a position of acting out pseudo-anonymously. Believe me, I am sorely tempted to do the same, so I can at least understand the emotions behind it.
Doesn't make it right, but it is understandable within it's own frame of reference.
[–]evileddy 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
uh oh...
[–]existentialdetective 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I have a question about the "bad rap" thing. I recently commented in a post questioning and challenging some highly offensive and unsupported remarks and then was banned from another subreddit called "men's studies" (by its moderator) that I've never even visited. This has left a sour taste in my mouth about the whole community surrounding "men's rights" on reddit. If I want to participate, what should I do to avoid retaliatory actions? What I said in my comment was certainly WAY MORE TAME than what is frequently said on reddit all the time, and it was an attempt to open up a circlejerk by asking for data and stats rather than gross generalizations and rants.
[–]aetheralloy 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
The best answer to this question is - to listen, first.
A lot of people stumble into this subreddit and just start talking about their own beliefs. Most of the time they present arguments that have been gone through thousands of times before. MensRights has, actually, heard about and discussed the wage gap, sexism at work, biological facts, education, money, etc. We are aware of terms like "misogyny", "patriarchy", "gender identity", and "privilege". So really the best thing to do is to listen a while. Get the opinions of more than one or two mensright's posters. There are many posters and many attitudes.
Listen, learn, see the different viewpoints that exist within mensrights.
That's when you'll be ready to speak about it.
[–]TerribleAtPuns 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Fantastic advice for any subreddit that discusses opinions as well
[–]existentialdetective 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You have given a very interesting answer and I will certainly give it some thought... But I wonder how this subreddit is any different than any other in the way you describe it: "A lot of people stumble into this subreddit and just start talking about their own beliefs. Most of the time, they present arguments that have been gone through thousands of times before." Does this mean that the newcomers are unwelcome to ask questions that have been asked before? I don't know, in theory I agree with your statement about waiting awhile and listening before offering commentary-- in general, this applies well to all of life. And yet, honestly, how can that be expected on any reddit? Anyway, thanks for offering an answer. That was very generous of you. I'll continue to think about it.
[–]XFDRaven 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Most often, the newcomers are less Lewis and Clark, and more like aggressive Bible thumpers.
/2XC bleeds a feminist member or two into here, who tries to "right the wrongs" by telling everyone how they understand "our pain" and if only we understood feminism we would "be saved." Various other incarnations occur be it from the /r/politics/ type or elsewhere. It gets old, and most people become very callused.
[–]truthiness79 11 points12 points13 points 15 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
as someone who doesnt believe in marriage and has no interest in having kids, i originally thought MRA was just a bunch of men suckered into marriage, got screwed in the divorce, and whining about it afterward. my thoughts changed completely though when a very good friend of mine was accused of rape. it took almost a year, but he got off only after her mother came forward and said her daughter was a vindictive liar. i dont even want to think about how things would have turned out if her mother hadnt took the stand. and my brother had to go out of his way to prove that a child wasnt his. its horrible that there are men out there who are paying back-breaking child support for a kid thats not theirs. the idea that i can be accused of rape by a vengeful ex or have my wages garnished for a kid thats not mine is more than enough reason for me to take MRA seriously.
[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The fact that DNA paternity testing isn't mandatory before naming the father on a birth certificate is one of the great shames of our current system. Under our present system a minor, who cannot enter into a legal agreement without parental consent, is allowed to name anyone she chooses as the "father" on a birth certificate, with no parental consent or legal consultation, and the "father" is held liable with all burden of proof on him. Even if he never met the mother.
It's fucking outrageous, actually.
[–]argv_minus_one 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The fact that one can be "suckered into" marriage is already evidence that something is wrong.
[–]hopeless_case 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Similar incidents are what put Men's Rights on my radar and woke me up. My wife's cousin, a very close friend of our family, was hung out to dry by his wife. She slapped herself on one side of her face until it was red and marked up, then called the police and claimed he hit her. When the police arrived, she was holding the ice bag on the side that wasn't swollen. The police officer noticed this, wrote it in the police report, and hauled the guy away anyway to spend a night in prison anyway.
That was just the beginning of his troubles.
[–]dasSchnabeltier 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
If things are really to be equal we need to take custody battles on a case by case basis rather than always painting the male parent as being the most likely to abuse or neglect kids (especially since this is not true).
If things are really to be equal, where women are now more than half of the work force and more than half of college and university graduates are women, we need to stop looking to men to provide for us in divorce settlements and child support. Women can go to work just as men can; we don't need their money. And if she can't financially support her children, there's a simple solution; share custody with the father so between the two of them they can raise the kids. No need for one parent to leech off the other so long as they can both go to work, right?
Lately I've been telling the men in my life all about the mens' rights movement. I can't draft a piece of legislation or write a paper or do a study, but if I care about the men in my life, I can still warn them what the dangers are, the ways the law can fuck them over, and why they need to be extra careful about who they get involved with. It's kind of crazy that women and men my age still believe females are the only victims, and are oblivious to the abuse of men in industrialized countries.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There's a magazine that was created specifically for those who want to know about the Mens Movement without running into crap articles:
http://menzmagazine.blogspot.com
From there they can read (as of now) 4 issues of the magazine (total approx 40 articles) composed of the most thoughtful and well written articles that could be found at the time.
Give it a try, and if it looks Ok to you, recommend it to others.
[–]ruddlebuttsTX 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Two summers ago, my parents were in a battle over where my sister and I would attend school the next year: the school where I already attend or a school closer to my mom's house because I live with her.
I supposedly had an amicus attorney on my side, however, she is a lesbian woman with no children and she was clearly just a second attorney for my mother because we told her repeatedly we wanted to remain at our old schools.
The judge ruled in favor of my mom and crazy step dad and my father was demonized because of past outbursts and (true) claims against my step dad and his mental stability.
Luckily, after much pestering on my part, my mom allowed us to remain at our old schools. I have learned a lot from our legal system, mostly that lawyers are blood-sucking harpies who will dance for anyone who is willing to pay them $300/hour. And never get divorced.
[–]argv_minus_one 13 points14 points15 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Welcome aboard, then, sir or madam.
Why were you skeptical of men's rights before?
[–]puredoubt -3 points-2 points-1 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
because men don't deserve rights, obviously.
OP, have a pat on the back. would the reception be as warm if your post was something like "niggers aren't so bad, after all." thanks for finally coming around.
[–]smapte 9 points10 points11 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Consider that people who respond as you did are the reason some folks look dubiously on men's rights.
[–]jimmyjango42 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Not really. It's usually people who don't think it's as big of a deal as we're making it out to be.
At that point, you're not really looking for an answer. You're just looking for affirmation for your disagreement, at least until you get a wake up call, like the OP did.
Everyone needs equality, not this group or that group. Everyone.
[–]smapte 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm looking for affirmation and need a wake-up call? You're making a lot of assumptions about my stance on men's rights.
Here's a protip: part of being an effective member of any advocacy group is being able to correctly identify your allies and supporters and then regarding them inclusively. Second to that task is not falsely identifying allies as enemies and shitting down their necks until they actually become the enemies you imagined them to be.
That is, unless your goal is to be forever victim. Because if that's your goal, keep on with your current strategy. It's working for you.
[–]XFDRaven -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So kind of like Feminism?
[–]AnnArchist 9 points10 points11 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Welcome to the team. Its a real mindfuck when you see it IRL isn't it?
You go from har har look @ the MR trolls to oh fuck, why did I wait this long to care.
[–]AyeMatey 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
ya, I was the same way.
[–]AyeMatey 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Welcome.
It's too bad it takes something like this occurring to someone you know in order to convince you that it's real. It happens. Often. It happens to lots of people.
By the way, I converted for the same reasons you did. It happened to someone I love. A good father lost all custody of his kids and got a protection order. She alleged he was violent in order to cover her own misbehavior as a mother and spouse - drugs, fucking another man, drinking, absolute financial mismanagement. She lied and lobbed allegations until the court believed her.
The father that it happened to... was me.
[–]Fatalistic 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
I don't know why anyone thinks it is somehow "crazy" "out there" or in any way "whining" in the first place. Why did you have to see some proof first hand to believe, when there's mountains of proof out there?
[–]MrLOL[🍰] -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I'm a pretty good looking guy. I've never had a woman ask me out. I hear the stories and sometimes wonder. Thankyou for PUA.
That was my first intro into men's rights. Women are so passive that this standard depresses me because these women will be moms for the next gen.
[–]AyeMatey 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
ask you out? PUA? Passive women? Are you on the wrong thread?
or ...
it seems to me those are three red herrings in a single post.
[–]MrLOL[🍰] -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Hilarious. Sure women eye me and catcall but none of them actually ask me out. I guess I'm rather flirty and they over-expect.
[–]AyeMatey 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
non-sequitir
[–]MrLOL[🍰] -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
And what shall we argue over today matey? Taking a aggressive or passive stance? Yeah, this coming from a guy who let his wife fuck him over.
You must be the epiphany of logicality right? Instinct tells me to take the advantage.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You're not making any sense at all.
[–]evileddy 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
He's giving you the "Alpha male don't have time for this menrights, feminism malarkey!"
[–]MrLOL[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
You guys are funny. I like to be subtle about my opinions. Human beings are not logical creatures; we can be if conditioned. Creatures of habit not much different than a dog or a monkey. We just have the freedom of choice to decide and tolerate that makes us unique.
Keep playing by the rules and you end up disappointed. This is all about whether you have the choice to control or not. And given that freedom, what do you do? Do you make a fair logical choice or a choice in favor of yourself.
[–]bzfd 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link
The biasness of the system against men is not a fault of women, but a symptom of the legal system that needs to be addressed. It's not about gender rights, but equality, and Humanist ideologies, that should be at the forefront rather than the idea of sexism. Progressive thoughts are key here, and both men and women have their own breed of assholes that attempt to pit one another against each other.
[–]AntiFeministMedia 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago* (30 children) | Copy Link
Is it not about gender when feminists (and most women) would argue men should not be allowed DNA tests to see if they are the biological father of their child?
Every individual woman may not be directly responsible for ideological feminism, but they become complicit in their silence, because they know they stand to benefit.
[+][deleted] 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]bzfd 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
You sure are taking a grandiose statement and applying absolutely no logic to it. You are essentially insinuating that no women at all fight for men's rights, when this is absolutely untrue. You're generalizing an entire sex. You're arguing against a philosophical belief, feminism, not Women. Men are just as capable of manipulating statistics and lying to have issues work in their favor as well. This is not a product of men or women, but of people, and anti-social and possibly sociopathic behavior. Are there men and women who take advantage of the system? Undoubtedly. But to lay the blame squarely on women is poor judgment and poor reasoning.
[–]AntiFeministMedia -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
Men dont attack women, the way women attack men through feminism.
and feminism=women.
The 'fe' in the word 'feminism' should give you a clue.
And if you think that most women are not secret feminists, then you are sorley mistaken.
Yes there are a tiny minority of women that speak against feminism, but the vast majority enjoy its benefits and say nothing.
I must answer this by saying my wife is extremely anti-"feminist" (what passes for it these days anyway) and strongly pro-man. She has seen some nasty shit from women and thinks men take it in the ass all the time largely because they have dicks for brains.
[–]bzfd 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Sources, please, otherwise this is conjecture and presumptions based on poor logical reasoning and fear.
[–]AyeMatey 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
State of Washington code: RCW 26.050, which states that an order for protection will be granted when someone petitions, unless the court can state why it did not grant such protection.
This is the first step in forcibly taking possession of children, and look at the stats, it is women who utilize this statute, to the great loss of many fathers.
I had nothing to gain by attacking my ex-wife in the divorce, or so I thought. I was earning money, had a great relationship with my kids, and I had been an exemplary father. No drugs, no illicit sex, no gambling. So I stood flatfooted while she accused me of the most preposterous things. Denying them meant nothing in family court. Before long I lost all my possessions and all custody of the children, too. And with that a will to continue working and "being a good dad."
Now I am a deadbeat, depressed, and one phone call away from incarceration. At work, I used to manage a team of people, managed an annual budget of 8 figures. I was capable, professionally successful, intelligent. Now I am a doormat. I have lost the thing that mattered most to me - my family. My kids had nothing to say about it.
The way these things go is a crying shame. A damn shame.
It's not the end of the world, and sure, we in the USA have things much better than most people. so I need to keep perspective.
But this is not just. This is not fair. This is not healthy for kids, fathers, or (surprisingly) mothers.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I actually 100% understand this. I am being held liable for thousands in "unpaid support" by the state, support that was paid directly nearly 13 years ago but cannot be proven so many years later. She has no interest in telling the truth, and I am facing prison if I don't pay.
My wife and I were setting that money aside to help my daughter escape the ridiculous life she has been forced to live with her mother. Now instead it will fund her mother's umpteenth wedding and honeymoon.
How is this justice for us or my daughter? The state isn't interested in that, only in their matching federal funds for every dollar of child support "arrears" they collect.
[–]bzfd 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Agreed. This is definitely unjust but this is a problem with our judicial system, not women themselves. Yes, it's favoring women, but how is it for us to blame them? If a woman spoke up on your behalf, do you think it would have changed anything? No. It's the fault of the law.
[–]AyeMatey -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
ok, and How did the law get to be the way it is, pray tell?
NOW do you understand? NOW do you see it?
[–]bzfd 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
Easy. Not too long ago, women were shafted in court. The roles were reversed, maybe not so drastically, but they were. Yet, with all things we do, we have a tendency to overdo them. So when we went to fix these issues, and bring some fairness to order, it snowballed into the absurdities that it is now. I know that you're hurt, that you've been taken advantage of and screwed by the court system, but honestly, do you really believe there is a female conspiracy out to screw men? If so, I can direct you to the conspiracy subreddit where they believe we're all going to be in FEMA concentration camps; your conspiracy is not so far off from their own.
When the 'evidence' appears to favor group X instead of Y, it's natural to assume to worse, as your stuck in your ideological philosophies of that group, instead of pulling away and observing the entire picture of things. Yes, there are women who want to use men. Yes, there are men who would like to use women. The judicial system is wacked out, even our psychological reactions have to be taken into account; the roles of women and men have been reversed for the first time in thousands of years worth of culture (except in some rare cases of matrilinearesque tribes, but even then, gender roles are the same), this is profound and certainly frightening in some cases for a species who does not do well with change, nor knows how to handle the change presented to them.
Think. Observe. Do not blame women for all your woes, despite your current misfortune being the product of one. There are assholes in all camps.
[–]AyeMatey 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
do you really believe there is a female conspiracy out to screw men?
I really believe it was feminists and NOW who encouraged the US to pass laws like VAWA and get the state of Washington to revise their code so that any request for a protection order is a guilty verdict. Is that ALL women? certainly not. Some of the best people in the world are women. But also, the main people who distort the law against men, are women. If you want to call that a conspiracy, go ahead. I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think it's injustice.
Do not blame women for all your woes...
You have me confused with someone else. You are ascribing to me, views I do not hold, opinions I do not espouse. I don't "blame" an entire gender for "all my woes". I blame NOW and feminists for distorting the family courts and demonizing all men. I guess the members of NOW are mostly women. That doesn't taint women, to me. Furthermore I do not blame anyone for "all my woes." I bear primary responsibility, for being naive and thinking my wife would not transform into her mother. She did. My bad. In retrospect, I should have known. That's my fault. no one else's.
I do fault the courts though, for destroying a husband andd father unnecessarily, and with prejudice. That is not "all my woes".
I suggest to you: can the dismissive attitude; sit back and listen, and you may learn something. If you want to put everyone into a little box you have prepared, you will succeed, and you will also learn nothing.
good luck to you.
[–]bzfd1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You're right, I did have you confused for the previous gentleman that I was debating with, who admittedly was stereotyping all women as feminist. My apologies, there is no reason for the hostility. I am not being dismissive toward you and agreed with you on various points throughout our back and forth responses. But you're right, extremist in feminist are looking to deadlock any laws that appear to favor men in any form - although we must consider why the extreme form of feminist came to rise in the first place. History is a good teacher and women have struggled for a long, long time for the rights that they've finally been appointed. Does this make it right? No. But it does allow a look into the mindset of such an individual who feels slated by a male dominated world.
It is good that you're capable to differentiate between an ideology and individuals that are not held responsible for those philosophies. Again, your hostilities are unwarranted and do little to promote discourse on the subject. I apologize for my confusion between you and the other individual but you appear to have a logical head on your shoulders. Best of luck to you in the future.
[–]Nobody_special -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
His comments are based on experience. Sounds like years of experience to me.
[+][deleted] 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]XFDRaven 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Not even all feminists are women.
[–]bzfd 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
If you're going to edit your posts, please comment that you have.
[–]AntiFeministMedia -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link
The edits were superficial.
(Edit. added a fullstop.)
[–]bzfd 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Then how do you account for feminists lying and manipulating statistics?
Is that not about gender when feminists argue men should not be allowed DNA tests to see if they are the biological father of their child?
Women may not be directly responsible for ideological feminism, but they are certainly complicit in their silence.|
Superficial but essentially changing the meat of your argument. I'm not exactly sure what you expect 'women' as an entire people, to do with the system that is absurdly broken and bias. This type of conspiracy theory mindset of assuming women are biding their time in hopes of some sort of imaginary sexist coup is exactly why Men's Rights is seen as a collection of misogynist. I understand what it's like to be taken advantage of by a woman, and by the courts, but actions are based on individuals, not a whole people. You're essentially stereotyping women.
[–]AntiFeministMedia -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
and yes exactly, I am stereotyping women, because the vast majority of women are engaged in 'feminist' behaviour.
[–]bzfd 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Again, sources, otherwise you're not helping your case by making statements that have no proof to them. That's like saying that every black man wants to steal my radio or that I want to keep the black man down due to my white skin. Absurd.
[–]AntiFeministMedia -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
the family law courts? denying fathers the right to see their children?
they could speak out about disproportionate divorce settlements in favor of wives? instead of agreeing the man should get screwed for every penny.
acknowledge that false-rape allegations are the real reason why genuine victims may not be believed, instead of blaiming the police and justice system?
I could give you sources upon sources, but I doubt it would make any difference to you. EDIT-And there are sources every day on this reddit that prove my case, just seems you dont want to acknowledge that a huge number of women misbehave.
See my blog for instance.
http://antifeministmedia.blogspot.com/
[–]bzfd 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
This is a symptom of the system and not some plot by women to undermine men, although I am quite sure there are some groups of women that would enjoy that - just as there are some men that would like to see women not voting and returning to the kitchen instead of working. This is simply growing pains of a culture adjusting to new roles. Is it broken? Definitely. But women are not out to get you, my friend. Not every woman is eyeing you and your wallet, wondering how they can manipulate you in order to financially and socially destroy you.
I acknowledge that the laws are biased. I acknowledge that there is need for improvement. You're existing in a state of fear due to stereotyping behaviors of an entire sex. There will be a middle ground reached, I have no doubt, it will just take time, patience and understanding from every side.
[–]AntiFeministMedia -3 points-2 points-1 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You cant fundamentally blame the system.
Its women that are exploiting the system thats the problem. It wouldnt need to be fixed if it wernt being exploited in the first place.
and by the way, the vast majority of men think women should have the vote, if they want women back in the kitchen and out of the office, you may look to the problems women cause in the office as an explanation of why that may be the case.
I think I'll leave this here. I havent got time to source everything thats obvious to most other people.
[–]AyeMatey2 points 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I agree completely. I have never "worked the system" for anything. I worked hard, I played fair, paid my taxes, gave to charity, honored my parents, treated people well. I don't lie or cheat. Period.
Then my wife decides she wants to fuck my friend. Well. So I ask her to reconcile, go to counseling, work this out, for the sake of the kids, you know. I am patient and willing to do the right thing. She "tries" but she's still fucking him while coming to marriage therapy. Ok, this doesn't work. She files for divorce and then alleges violence. I immediately lose all custody of my kids, and all possession of my things, which are in the family home.
WTF?
how is this possible?
It is a frigging nightmare that this is possible. She worked the system HARD. I'm not sure at this point if she believes the lies she told the court, believes I am really as scary and dangerous as she alleged. But legally, her allegations became true. The court accepted them, and discarded my denials. This is the way it is.
In my case, this woman completely exploited the system.
[–][deleted]1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The problem with the whole "You can't stereotype women as all acting that way" type arguments is one small fact:
Women's actual behaviour, day to day, in real life.
Which begs the question, are stereotypes 'bad' if they're essentially true?
[–]AntiFeministMedia -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
bfzd said:
'I'm not exactly sure what you expect 'women' as an entire people, to do with the system that is absurdly broken and bias.'
Refuse to expoit the system? speak out at injustice?
[–]bzfd 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There are women who do this. Like I said, it's individuals that take advantage of the system, men are just as guilty as a women in doing so. When a man beats a woman, or rapes her, does this make all men rapist bastards? No. When a woman takes advantage of a man in court, does this mean all women will do the same? Hardly.
[–]Nobody_special 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Slowly people are coming around.
[–]ucantbeserious 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Nice. Welcome to the club. Glad you could make it.
[–]cjl10schic 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Most all would agree that in these circumstances, men are discriminated against. However, this discrimination is the result of sociological and legal actions by men (particularly white men) to ensure women's place was in the home and her role in society was only private-sphere workings. Is it fair now? Maybe not. Is the disparity in men's/women's wages and authority gone? Absolutely not. Equality is a facade...unfortunately this is another example.
[–]abomb999 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yah. It is indeed fucked up! Keep educating yourself and make yourself strong and proud, it's all good from there :D
[–]androk 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
same as republicans and healthcare. It's bullshit that it needs fixed until they are directly affected.
[–]CorranHorn1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The montra I keep is, "I would rather a thousand guilty walk free than one innocent man suffer"
[+]duccy_duc -6 points-5 points-4 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I believe in men's rights but this sub reddit is full of misogyny.
[–]rabbitspade 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
[citation needed]
[–]dasSchnabeltier 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's full of anti feminism, but anti feminism does not equate with misogyny. You can learn how to tell the difference between hate speech and disagreement based on moral and intellectual grounds.
If you do see a very angry comment which you can definitely attribute as being sexist, please keep an open mind. It could be someone who is hurting after being fucked in a divorce settlement, struggling with child support or can't get custody of his kids.
The anger wouldn't be there if victims did not exist. You have to allow that these people may have good reasons to be upset.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Of course you do.
[–]throwawayaccountoooo -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hahahaha, wow you guys are dumb. All it takes is an account with a hottie attached and you all fell for it, completely. No wonder this movement has no legs at all. Enjoy your holidays alone, you ridiculous, sad, losers.
[–]Liverotto -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This must be a first here: Your white guilt as actually made you overcome your male guilt.
[+]Lovekraft -10 points-9 points-8 points 15 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link
It is kind of like the expression "a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged": A Mens Rights Activist (MRA) is a mangina who has been nagged and belittled by feminists.
I've had a great run with the opposite sex. Many partners, no drama and overall no personal complaints.
I am so active on this subreddit because I've seen what happened to a few close friends. One got an 18 yeah old high school drop out pregnant and now is living hell. Another got assaulted with a deadly weapon at a bar with plenty of witnesses... and the police didn't care about the case because it was a woman committing the crime. Nothing bad has happened to me personally. It just obvious looking at how unfair the USA is against men.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's more like "a feminist is a woman who has been raped".
Not that I'm saying that's in any way "good", just that an MRA is likely someone who has been the victim of the very behaviors discussed in /MensRights.
[+]Calamity_Jesus -7 points-6 points-5 points 15 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
I don't know many feminists who would support an unfit parent being chosen due to gender bias. True feminists want what most of us want.. just equality.
Not this again.
[+]Il128 15 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Equality as in "They are special snow flakes" that get what they want.
[–]Calamity_Jesus 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"just equality"...
"just" as in the root word for justice.. not an interchangeable term for only.
[–]Calamity_Jesus -5 points-4 points-3 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Wow.. I thought MensRights was about Mens Rights.. not Anti-Womens Rights.
I guess I stumbled upon the wrong sub-reddit.
[–]ForMensRights 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
sigh..
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Your shaming language won't work here, feminist. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
[–]Calamity_Jesus 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
So, you're saying that equal and just rights aren't acceptable? I'm just as much a feminist as I am a mens rights advocate. Again, I only said "true feminists" before.. I didn't say "the warped, fucked up, men-hating people that call themselves feminists". See the difference?
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Please point out where exactly I said and/or implied that "equal and just rights aren't acceptable".
The fact of the matter is that the arguments you have been using here are nothing new to us. This might explain more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
Now replace Scotsman with feminist (in your initial post).
This is my last post on this tired old subject. Seriously, if you people dont like Mensrights subreddit, no one is forcing you to be here.
[–]Calamity_Jesus -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You aligned yourself against me from the onset based on my comment that we're all here for the same thing.
You should look up 'non sequitur'. At no point did I make any claims on behalf of "all feminists". Actually, my initial comment was a counter to a borderline 'No True Scotsman' claim that "A Mens Rights Activist (MRA) is a mangina who has been nagged and belittled by feminists.".. it's a 'No True Scotsman' for both MRAs & Feminists.
You should try being a mature adult who can hold a civilized conversation... not a flippant troll. It would suit everyone better.
[–]Calamity_Jesus 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You and I know different feminists apparently. I'm sorry that you don't know any of the good ones. The good ones actually like/love/appreciate men. Like this very subreddit.. a few of the loudest morons can hijack a good cause.
© TheRedArchive 2026. All rights reserved.created by /u/dream-hunter
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Equality as in "They are special snow flakes" that get what they want.
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