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Hoi-PartyCake7
[–]BeanoFTW 100 points101 points102 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
"Equality" meaning only the things they pick and choose. I absolutely LOVE how when the possibility of real equality is expressed, they go up in arms. Too fucking bad; be careful with what you wish for.
[–]notacrackheadofficer 34 points35 points36 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
A draft for 2 years of garbage collector duties would not bother men, but would make most women run to hide in the forest.
[–]emberfly -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
A draft for 2 years of garbage collector duties would not bother men
speak for yourself. Since it won't bother you, I'll let you serve my time.
[–]majortom22 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
16 to 1 vote man.
Personally I think there should be an amendment requiring 2 years national service service in either the military or civilian service of some sort for all citizens.
[–]JayJayEcks 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
I disagree.
It should still be a choice, no matter what. Making it mandatory, would only further turn it into a bigger social experiment than it already is.
But if you wanted to tie citizenship or voting to service, I am all for it. There should be a vast reward for those who do serve, versus those who do not.
Service should mean citizenship.
[–]radecthered 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I love that book, but the movie was shit.
[–]majortom22 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I vacillate back and forth between which of the two is better but ultimately I fall on your side and think there should be a distinction made for citizens, a la Starship Troopers
[–]xNOM 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
IMO it should be longer civilian service than military. I think 1.5 vs 1 or similar occurs in Europe, as a choice men have.
[–]notacrackheadofficer -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm way past drafting age.
[–]lethrowaway4me 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Buffet-style equality.
[–]piccorito 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"They" being five people on twitter. Are you really that deep in to this shit that you're angry about a handful of people having an inconsistent opinion?
[–]PancakePuppy0505 71 points72 points73 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
What a mysoginistic sub full of assholes! Us women are very sensitive and shouldn't expose us to such violence like war! If Hillary would have won there wouldn't be anymore wars because women are good at talking things out and we wouldn't have to resort to violence. We'd also have equal rights(excluding drafts and icky stuff like that) because we're strong and independent and we won't stand for men having it better . My god this country is so sexist, fuck the U.S. I'm moving to Hawaii. /s
[–]d4m4s74 19 points20 points21 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Hawai is in Kenya right?
[–]Historybuffman 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I think Hawai is that Chinese cute word
[–]McFeely_Smackup 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Uh, it's pronounced "Ha-vah-ee" you culturally insensitive jerk.
[–]nforne 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You just insulted the entire continent of Hawaii.
[–]d4m4s74 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's an Obama joke
[–]nforne 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Mine was a joke too.
(Edit: was a subtle, perhaps too subtle, reference to the YouTube video of the SJW who tried to get an Uber driver fired for having a bobblehead doll.)
[–]JestyerAverageJoe 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"When you're used to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
[–]WhiteAsTheNut 60 points61 points62 points 8 years ago (53 children) | Copy Link
Especially with The possibility of war with Korea, they probably are scared. Everyone eligible for draft is probably scared.
[–]Aeponix 22 points23 points24 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
I don't think there will be a war with NK unless they do something remarkably stupid. That said, with the possibility on the horizon, I've never been happier to be a morbidly obese fatty.
Still not happy to be fat, but at least it's a strong positive.
[–]WhiteAsTheNut 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Honestly, lots of people will get out of draft for obesity. I'm thin and have no mental problem, unlike my brother. Who probably won't end up in the military even if drafted.
Also, if anything NK will probably start a war for stupid shit with nukes.
[–]gpl999 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Obese folks should have to report for extended training to lose weight so they can be combat ready. I don't quite see how it's fair to dodge war because you can't control how much food you stuff into you.
[–]Revoran 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't quite see how it's fair to force people (men) to fight and die if your country itself is not being invaded.
[–]WhiteAsTheNut 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
My grandpa(a Vietnam drafted) said if you are worthless and lazy enough they will kick you out from the army.
[–]blackxxwolf3 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
as someone whos looked into it military has a fat camp. they wont just kick you out anymore. if you arent the correct weight theyll send you to a military style fat camp for bootcamp if you didnt lose the weight you do it again. the food is bad and the workouts are hard. youll lose fat so fast youll have loose skin from it. once your done in fat camp theyll send you through regular bootcamp and on into the military. now there are exceptions (if your way way way way too fat so bad you cant walk) but we already knew that. and if the draft happens theyll lower their standards even more.
[–]WhiteAsTheNut 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Heh, you should see Australia's army standards. I saw a post on here saying it was like 5 push ups and 20 sit ups.
Either way it is good so people can't get out of draft anymore.
[–]KR_Blade 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
honestly, unless NK acts first, its not gonna happen, trump may be a big ass idiot but he wont blow his chance to make peace with china and russia when he's gotten further than any president in the 2000s so far [bush and obama only really kept both countries at arms length] and china has offically said, if North Korea fires first, they are on their own.
[–]byecyclehelmet 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I don't think North Korea is a threat. They've been doing this shit for decades. Remember when they did this in 2013? Or all the times before then? They're full of shit. There won't be a war, and if there was one, Trump could issue an executive command to bomb the shit out of them with a single nuke.
[–]KR_Blade 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
honestly if north korea attacked, i wouldnt order a nuke, just use the MOAB, just as powerful without radioactive fallout, all north korea has are nukes, countries like the US, we got weapons close to the power of a nuke but without the radioactive poison of a nuclear bomb, use them instead, decreases the loss of innocent life, allows a post kim jong and actually democratic government in north korea to rebuild what we had to destroy, and doesnt have to mark areas on a already small country as stay away nuclear fallout zones.
[–]byecyclehelmet 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
North Korea is a country with very few resources and a shit ton of hungry, brainwashed, uneducated people. 25 million. about 250% of my country's population, and half that of South Korea. South Korea couldn't handle all these people in their country, and they'd have pretty much nowhere else to go. They can't really travel, so they'd just become the weird slums in the north of Korea.
[+]Stripes1974 -16 points-15 points-14 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We have the Asshole-In-Chief; it won't require NK to do something "remarkably stupid"-- just his simple ass.
[–]Kahlzit 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Even if we did go to war with North Korea there would in no way shape or form be a draft. There would be too many volunteers that there would be no need.
[–]emberfly 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's not that there would be many new volunteers (I'm sure there would be some), but it's that NK is so tiny that we already have more than enough troops to defeat them. Moreover, if it's a nuclear war, 0 troops will be needed, because everyone on Earth will die.
[–]TBFProgrammer 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It wouldn't be a full scale nuclear war. North Korea's sole delivery mechanism for the kind of nukes they have is still bomber aircraft. This threatens South Korea and China only so long as neither China nor the US establish air superiority, but no one else. Only China could conceivably fire a preemptive nuke at North Korea without fear of nuclear retaliation (from China), and they are angling for peaceful resolution.
[–]JCuc 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link
deleted What is this?
[–]brunhilda16 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
They have a 1000 artillery pointed at Seoul, and neither South Korea or China want to deal with the humanitarian fallout from millions of war refugees.
[–]WhiteAsTheNut 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
It may be able to turn bad, NK has a lot of men and women in reserve forces, also it will only get bad once it turns out like Vietnam, when people start deserting and draft dodging. It could turn real bad real fast.
[–]kartu3 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Times are different. Saddam had 4th largest army in the world with quite a bit of experience too (war vs Iran). Weapon superiority brings you very far.
[–]JCuc 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]kartu3 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh, please. Entire world was pushing for nuclear weapons like forever, including Gaddafi's Libia, Israel, South Africa.
[–]WhiteAsTheNut -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
We are very superior in weapons, we just have to watch out and handle things correctly.
[–]kartu3 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well, 2 Iraq wars have shown it. Saddam had quite advanced tanks, experienced soldiers and yadayada. US losses? About 200. (some of that from friendly fire)
[–]McFeely_Smackup -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Korea can't do shit.
"shouldn't do shit" is not the same as "can't do shit".
They could kick off a worldwide escalation of military escalation and response that far, far outstrips their own ability to engage in aggression.
Every major war starts with a comparatively minor action.
[–]JCuc 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]McFeely_Smackup 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I did not use the phrase "come to the aid of".
[–]JCuc 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]McFeely_Smackup 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Again, I did not say anyone would come to the aid of North Korea. Open conflict between Nations raises global tensions.
If you can't keep the discussion civil and mature, feel free to ignore this and go about your day.
[–]McFeely_Smackup -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm honestly not sure where you're going with this, but the answer to your question is "I have no idea who would come to the aid of North Korea"...nor do I have any idea why you keep asking me this. It's not related to anything I've said.
Now I've answered your question, will that help reduce the hostility level of the conversation?
[–]hatefulreason 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
no wonder uncle sam bombed the japs before they set foot on the coast considering what they did in korea
[+]_exitus_acta_probat_1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Everyone with a brain knows that we would have a repeat of 1953 with millions of Chinese coming across the border. Unless they want war with China (and probably Russia too), it's never going to happen. It's only sabre-rattling.
[–]deegan79 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
China has already told the NKs, if you attack first, you're on your own.
[–]_exitus_acta_probat_1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yes, China told the world that publicly, but we have no idea what they've told them in private. NK has been China's puppet for a very long time.
[–]assolf_shitler 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Guess we'll just have a sudden population explosion.
North Korea would not be a sufficient war to trigger the draft. It isn't a scary enough proposition at this point for the anti-war sentiments of the population to be sufficiently overturned. Attempting to trigger the draft would see widespread unrest across the political spectrum, which would cause Congress to balk.
Now, war with Russia would be sufficient trigger the draft, and every time we involve ourselves in Syria the possibility of that occurring increases.
[–]Rumpadunk 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
I've been thinking we should go to war with Korea for a long time now, these last couple days I've seen a lot of people saying that. What happened?
[–]blackxxwolf3 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
to answer your question they miniaturized their nukes, which is something our government said they wouldnt do for another decade.basically they have a ready to go nuke now which while its old can do some decent damage to anything it hits and they have a wide amount of targets to hit.
[–]Rumpadunk 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Wait when the fuck did they get nukes? You mean like actual nukes and not regular bomb shit?
[–]blackxxwolf3 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
theyve had nukes for a very long time. they just had the shitty ones that couldnt be landed well.
heres a decent history of it thanks to wikipedia. looks like they went nuclear in april 2003, but they had no way to release the payload which they got and then recently miniaturized it so it could be attached to the missle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_North_Korean_nuclear_program
edit cnn is better imo. http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/29/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-timeline---fast-facts/index.html
[–]TBFProgrammer 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
to answer your question they miniaturized their nukes,
Do we have any evidence of this beyond North Korean reporting? They reported that they had nukes roughly a decade before they were able to conduct a successful test, and have very good reason to overstate the capabilities of their arsenal.
[–]blackxxwolf3 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
us intelligence said so. not north korea. north korea claimed it years upon years ago but had no proof. its only recently our intelligence anounced it, which is when people take it seriously. everyone saying "oh weve done this for a long time they wont do anything" they havnt been able to do anything until now.
[–]TBFProgrammer 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Has US intelligence produced any evidence? US intelligence has been known to make irresponsible claims exaggerating the threat of an intended enemy in the lead up to war, and I'm not just referring to Iraq here.
[–]blackxxwolf3 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
if you honestly think they are going to say how they know it and risk several peoples lives and possibly a intelligence leak your crazy. i dont expect them to. you dont have to believe everything they say but with the way north korea has been going this is expected. im curious who youll believe? just because you cant see it atm doesnt mean it exists. the only way youd have confirmed proof is if they launched one at you and it killed you.
[–]TBFProgrammer 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I expect the publication of seismic data from the testing of the device. This type of data can not be meaningfully restricted and was how the presence of the initial nukes were detected.
im curious who youll believe?
Those who provide evidence. If your secrets are more important than being convincing, part of the price you pay is having people ignore your claims.
thats fine and thats your choice. but ill take the side of believing in crime statistics and other info the government releases.
Honestly we shouldn't go to war with them unless we are provoked. We don't want a whole another socialist v capitalist type of war. And idk what happened.
[–]WrathOfSolace 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
We should only invade once they actually launch missiles with the intent of hitting us, once they do that we cannot sit idly by and wait for them to keep trying, we will have to reduce them to ashes, kill Kim, install a new government and destroy their military.
[–]Rumpadunk 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
While they aren't invading elsewhere trying to take over the land, the atrocities there are similar to that of Germany during WWII. I don't think we should just stand back idly. Even though it's north Korea our difference in power is so extreme they might even surrender very quickly.
[–]WrathOfSolace 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The thing is if we preemptively strike, they would raze Seoul to the ground killing hundreds of thousands if not a million+ people, well it will happen eventually sadly
How would they destroy Seoul?
[–]WrathOfSolace 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
NK has thousands of artillery pieces aimed at Seoul.
[–]Pelikahn 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Feminism isn't about equality, it's about superiority. This should be common sense to anyone in this sub.
[–]Swiss_Cheese9797 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I like the word supremacy.
[–]double-happiness 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Related
[–]uhh__Alex 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Wow.. you might as well just post that.
[–]iongantas 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, they've only had the right to vote without being drafted for like a hundred years or so.
[–]v574v 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
She's right - the draft should be outlawed.
[–]McFeely_Smackup -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
There is no draft, so what would you be outlawing?
[–]v574v 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Selective service if you prefer, frankly, I don't give a fuck what you call it - if you can't dig up enough troops to support your war voluntarily you probably shouldn't be starting a war.
[–]McFeely_Smackup -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
So again, if you pass a law "outlawing" selective service, what does that accomplish, other than a symbolic grandstand? A similar law could re-instate it.
Selective Service is a piece of political fiction at this point. Registering accomplishes literally nothing...in fact, when a man turns 18 he gets multiple notifications that he is required to register, and if he doesn't, gets multiple notifications that he has failed to register. The government already knows every draft age male in the country, and how to find them...SS is an anachronism.
[–]v574v 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I took her use of the word 'outlawed' in a colloquial fashion and it would seem that you agree that it's a waste?
The current Selective Service concept of "registration" is nonsense and unnecessary, we could eliminate the office and change nothing.
That being said, the idea of abolishing "the draft" that some people think it's so obvious is childishly naive, it makes as much sense as "abolish war".
[–]_exitus_acta_probat_4 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Quickest way to turn women into women again is to give them absolute equality.
[–]SaturnisVictor 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Western women, AHEM American women, so demanding but yet so gullible. Feminism was never to elevate your stupid ass from the kitchen it was to remove your worth as a women.
[–]Taylor1391 -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
What worth? Maids and babymakers? They wanted to accomplish something other than turning their uterus into a clown car and asking "how high?" if their husband said jump.
[–]SaturnisVictor 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You are thoroughly ignorant if you think that's what women did before this so called equality.
[–]Taylor1391 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
They didn't do anything, that's sort of my point.
[–]SaturnisVictor 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I guess you know it all
[–]ThatNinaGAL 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
5 people on Twitter.
I can find 5 people on Twitter saying that they love to fellate donkeys.
[+]urinalxcake1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
I feel like you should probably follow through with your assertion.
[–]Agrees_withyou 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I agree.
[+]ThatNinaGAL -19 points-18 points-17 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Tell you what - if some salient world news event causes all the donkey-blowers to proclaim themselves en masse on Twitter, I will be sure to collect screenshots. Perhaps Trump will explain next week that we need the wall to protect the virtue of our nation's donkeys.
[–]turn20left 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Don't backpedal now. You made a claim, come through.
[+]ThatNinaGAL -16 points-15 points-14 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Sorry, I'm not spending hours sifting through Twittertards to find people who spontaneously declared their love for donkeys in the absence of a precipitating event. That's not how Twitter works. The event is necessary to bring the tards floating to the surface where they can be easily skimmed up.
[–]turn20left 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You said you could do it. You're being called out.
[–]ThatNinaGAL -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh heavens, how shall I ever bear the shame of failing to heed your clarion call to waste my time?
[–]AnAllegedAlien 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Then dont say you'll do it you stupid fuck.
[–]Macheako[🍰] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Still waiting for dem pics...
[–]kartu3 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Fair enough. Although, I bet most women do not want to be drafted. Heck, I can't recall a single men who would like to.
[–]ThatNinaGAL 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I don't want to be drafted. That's why they'd have to draft me. But my sex has nothing to do with my desire to avoid conscription.
[–]wanked_in_space 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But my sex has nothing to do with my desire to avoid conscription.
But your sex does have everything to do with your ability to avoid being drafted.
[–]kartu3 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I see. So you think, even though majority of women does not consider themselves feminists (Kaley Cuoco among them; not that she's an exception or something, but you rarely see celebrity speak out about it) and even though majority of humans would not want to be drafted, majority of women would not say "no, thank you, feminists" in this context, right?
[–]ThatNinaGAL 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Here's the thing - personally wishing to avoid the draft, while simultaneously believing that healthy young females should be fair game for the Draft Board, has nothing to do with feminism either way. If you are an egalitarian, you want the draft to be universal or non-existent.
1) feminism isn't egalitarian is what we are pointing out in this subreddit most of the time 2) it's about tradeoff between rights and duties. I'm pretty sure I'd given up "privilege" of being drafted for lower (heck, much lower) salary, given a choice
Agree on either universal or non-existent.
[–]Draggonzz 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
heh
[–]uhh__Alex 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ahahaha
[–]PoofyPossum666 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAaa
[–]Dank_Meems 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The number of women who actually don't know that boys still sign up for the draft is fucking unbelievable... These cunts really do live in an alternate reality.
[–]CA22TOR 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This shows the worst side of feminism. In high school I often butted heads with a feminist in my class(we're both females). I always wanted to join the military and often wore Air Force and Navy hats and t-shirts. We actually had a recruiting person at the school after we had a college fest day and after speaking to him I found I actually probably wouldn't be allowed to join when I was 18(I have autism and asthma). I was pretty upset by it. I was talking about it at lunch and she was at my table. Only a few days later she was saying how it isn't equality for women to register for the draft. And I said how if the draft was gonna happen, women absolutely should have to register if they want equality. Her response "That's easy for you to say. You're disabled so you'd never be affected" even though she knew how upset I was that I couldn't join. What a bitch move.
[–]MyOtherTagsGood 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This sub has become a pathetic cesspool of hypocrisy. Women complaining about feminism not letting them have their cake and eat it too has nothing to do with social issues men face. These are anecdotal screenshots. These are not statistics showing that a group is actively violating male freedoms. I'm just going to unsubscribe at this rate because the mods apparently could care less about real issues.
[–]hork23 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Please fuck off then.
[–]ee4m -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (43 children) | Copy Link
This is part of the coming military police state.
[–]Swiss_Cheese9797 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You really see GOP creating a police state?
[–]ee4m 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
GOP, liberals - same thing.
[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (40 children) | Copy Link
Or part of a reaction to a fat piglet that wants to throw nukes at Guam.
[+]ee4m -10 points-9 points-8 points 8 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link
US are the aggressors.
Its only 70 years since the US totally destroyed north korea and there have been sanctions and other aggressions ever since.
Obama announced this militarized state when he first got elected btw. This is just a continuation of something that has been in the pipeline for years.
[–]byecyclehelmet 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link
The U.S. has focused on having a giant military for most of modern history. They had to go to war in Korea, or NK, and by proxy, the Soviets, would've captured the entire peninsula. There would be no tech innovators like Samsung, LG, etc. (the brands of two of my three monitors at my desk right now), and instead of just part of the peninsula being under a dictatorship, the entire fucking thing would be, perhaps letting the Soviet union live on to this day.
[–]ee4m -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link
That never had to go to war, thats just what they tell the public.
The Soviets were also victims of US aggression.
At the beginning of communism in russia, during a natural famine US interests were running trade blockaids, and trying to stop them modernizing - the west intentionally starved millions of people to death.
[–]byecyclehelmet 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link
Woah. Them 'nastics. It wasn't a natural famine. It was a communist one. The soviet leaders did it, not the US. And don't equate 'the west' to 'the US'. They are not the same.
[–]ee4m -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago* (35 children) | Copy Link
That's just western propaganda.
Russia was having droughts and famines every 10 years or so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_and_famines_in_Russia_and_the_Soviet_Union
The ones under communism ware also natural and particularly bad because western capitalist interests were blocking the import of modern farming equipment, food and only accepting grain for trade.
Capitalist interests have sabotaged every socialist and communist economy.
[–]WikiTextBot 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Droughts and famines in Russia and the Soviet Union
Throughout Russian history famines and droughts have been a common feature, often resulting in humanitarian crises traceable to political or economic instability, poor policy, environmental issues and war. Droughts and famines in Russia and the Soviet Union tended to occur fairly regularly, with famine occurring every 10–13 years and droughts every five to seven years. Golubev and Dronin distinguish three types of drought according to productive areas vulnerable to droughts: Central (the Volga basin, North Caucasus and the Central Chernozem Region), Southern (Volga and Volga-Vyatka area, the Ural region, and Ukraine), and Eastern (steppe and forest-steppe belts in Western and Eastern Siberia, and Kazakhstan).
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[–]byecyclehelmet 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link
Pizdu, tovarishch! Idiota kapitalismi!
Perhaps you should consider the other side, read up on Mr. Stalin, before you denounce capitalism as an evil virus spawn of satan? Perhaps on the story of Vladimir Komarov, or any of the other atrocities committed under communism.
The problem isn't found at the bottom of a 'no true Scotsman' fallacy, nor is it that anyone else has ruined the day before your beloved commies had a chance to somehow make everything better by having the government rule everything. The problem is communism. Even if it worked on paper, which it really doesn't, it does not work in real life. People don't work that way.
If everywhere stinks, check the sole of your boot, comrade.
Sweden is socialist. Sure, we still have capitalism, but the socialism is the flavour of it. Especially with our current social democrat government. Hopefully, the only reasonable party, SD, will win in 2018. Anyway, we're a socialist country, and no capitalists have done anything to sabotage us. Only the anarchists that we call "refugees", even if they're not even from a war-torn country, or in any danger of their lives, or even have any sort of identification.
China is communist. They're also a very important trade partner for most capitalists. You know, "Made in China".
North Korea's leadership is a cult that's got power over an entire country. Those are commies. Look at their neighbours, the South Koreans. They're innovative, a huge trade partner, quite rich, and live great lives. Meanwhile, in North Korea, they can't have more than 16 haircuts, and they have almost no food, and they are raised to believe that the Kim Jong dynasty are literally gods, that they've landed on the sun, that Kim Jong-Il invented the hamburger in 2005 (Juche 94)... Don't forget the labour camps! It's the worst excuse for a civilisation you could possibly live in that exists today.
Why are you defending the communism your grandparents fought against? They won, and they fought for a very good reason.
[–]ee4m -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago* (32 children) | Copy Link
Im not a communist - but it doesn't mean I have to repeat western propaganda.
I just know capitalism can be equally or more brutal (the US keeps a larger % of the population prison than at any time when there were gulags, and intentionally starved people in communist countries with economic warfare) for two examples.
There is the chilian libertarian dictatorship too, which was a disaster for the people and environment - and I don't know how many fascist and hardline muslim dictatorships have been put in place around the world to serve US capitalism.
Then there is killing people in africa and the mid east every day of the week in wars and proxy wars.
The US ran a massive murder campaign against north korean civilians - dropping more bombs on a country the size of florida than the US did during WW2 70 years ago. And like with all communist states they weren't allowed trade like other states. So its no wonder its dysfunctional.
[–]byecyclehelmet 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link
The killings are for a purpose. There is no way of getting what you want right away. You have to make strategic compromises at every step. Fighting communism will make sure that their prisoners and people (same thing in communism) starve, sure, but that wasn't the reason they fought communism. It was to remove communism.
The purpose was never to kill civilians. As I said, compromises are the only way forward, and civilians will get under the line of fire sometimes. That's not the fault of capitalism.
And don't even try comparing western prisons to gulags. For one, you'd have to compare percentages, not absolute counts, but it would still be useless.
In modern western prisons you get a bed, a toilet, food, socialisation, sometimes video games and other media, and a staff that cleans for you.
In gulags, you have barely any room, they deliberately give you as little and shitty food as possible, no matter how much they have, they torture you, they might mutilate you, nobody cleans anything, and you're not in there for fair reasons, nor do you have any chance of actually getting out.
[–]ee4m0 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The purpose of bombing civilian targets and cutting off food supplies is intentionally killing civilians.
And american capitalism sent a whole generation of men to war for no good reason.
Yes I am comparing %.
The US keeps a larger % of its population in prison doing labour.
The US is been bombing directly or supplying weapons for proxy wars for every war on the planet.
If you cannot blame capitalism for killing done by capitalist regimes, you cannot blame communism for killing done in communist regimes.
Anyhow, most of the deaths in communist regimes were due to western capitalist interests - cutting off food supplies, bombing and so on.
[–]byecyclehelmet2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You're useless until you actually respond to what I wrote, the full meaning of it, instead of just cherrypicking bits and pieces of whatever best fits your agenda and you can most easily argue against. You are a straw crow, I think. Why? Because you're straw manning me, and you won't recognise that you actually are, instead just invoking /r/iamverysmart or similar without actually responding to the statement, which is quite hypocritical. Of course, now that I've addressed that, your reaction will change, as will it because of this, and this, and this... but you get the idea. You can't fool anyone that doesn't want to be fooled.
Your comment rested on the false assumption that there was some legitimate reason for western capitalist interests to be killing people in communist countries in the first place.
Well, prove me wrong, then. Not to mention that that's not really accurate to what I wrote.
You are right that the conditions in modern american prisons are better than those in gulags in Russia in the 1930s.
There isn't any way you argue that communism kills more people though.
Modern capitalism has half the worlds wealth in the hands of 60 something odd people, and needs others to have a lot less so that they can be that rich.
There was no justification to start economic warfare with communist countries, and start cutting off food.
Ever heard of a little chap called Stalin? He killed more people than Hitler, but somehow, the ideology that drove him to do this is still acceptable to associate with, apparently, while it's not okay to be a nazi. Do you really think that it was just Stalin as a person who caused the genocides? Or was it the time and place he was born into? When you can, you will.
You're arguing for communism and against capitalism by bringing up elitism? Are you out of your mind? You livin' in 3017, as the normie memes say. Capitalism is a hierarchy. It's not this unfounded, unsourced number of 60 people on top, and then everyone else at the bottom. It's a staircase, and to climb it, you have to work hard and be skillfull. It's a competition. Your actions matter. If you suck, you get to be worse off. If you're great, you get to be well off. The only thing that's gotten in the way of our western meritocracy is the putrid spores of marxism that's resulted in SJWs, feminists, and the likes.
So what exactly is that? Socialism, Marxism, communism. They're all the same ideology. They're just a progressive description of how integrated the country is into it.
Communism means that the worker has no power. I can't believe you haven't figured this out. You'd think the enthusiast would know best about its enthusiasm's target, but evidently not this time.
The state has all of the rights. The state owns everything. There is no supply and demand. The worker owns nothing, and is obligated to work just to, most often, not be sent to the gulags. No matter how much the worker works, or how well, he will never progress. He will never even get a promotion. He is a tool of the state. A hammer or a sickle. All the money is situated in the government of a few people. The few remaining scraps are doled out to the peasants. It's the ultimate classicism, and you're calling it the opposite. It doesn't matter what it defines itself as, or what it says on paper. It is not like that. The human factor is obligatory.
Look at Russia today. Not officially communist like before the Soviet Union collapsed, but still quite practically communist. A living wage there is $300 per MONTH. That's in fact quite a good wage there. Almost all of the rich people have moved away. The internet is censoured and the legacy media is just propaganda in favour of communism and Putin. Even people who work with international clients, like YouTubers, get paid a fraction of what they would have for the same views in any non-communist nation. NFKRZ, for example, complains about this all the time.
The poor people, which are most people, are stuck there, and the rest have moved, or are about to. This is in a country where the communism has had 26 years to cool off, and stop being such a hot, glowing red.
Now that is something worth fighting for. I won't defend any action by any capitalist government to prove capitalism is good. That's insane. There are always idiots, and nothing is perfect. Capitalism is orders of magnitude above communism, though. Even if you could expect me to defend everything ever done by a capitalist government to prove that we're allowed to exist, you need a source, and a precise reference. Now, I'm not asking for one, because as I wrote just a second ago, that's irrelevant.
Most of the people that died when Stalin was in power, died because western capitalist interests cut off food supplies, and wouldn't trade modern farming equipment for anything other than grain - during a natural famine.
You sound like you're in denial. Both Göbler and Kübler. When I push on it, you get angry, and then you try to bargain yourself out of it, which is something the internet usually lets you do, unfortuately. Otherwise you'd become temporarily melancholic about the situation before accepting reality, which is a fate that's the least terrible you could possibly have.
[–]ee4m1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Im not in denial.
Its history.
It's a staircase, and to climb it, you have to work hard and be skillfull. It's a competition
Its an unsustainable system, totally irrational.
"You're a violent, drunken, moronic, dangerous, murderous psychopath who cuts men's dicks off for fun."
As a great Doctor once ordered: You provided just as many citations as I did.
Its not controversial that capitalism is unsustainable.
[–]byecyclehelmet1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Because it's trendy to be commie.
Look, being a hippie doesn't get you anywhere. The pendulum is swinging the other way. Wait another generation with that shit. You've had like 1 ½ generations of leftist bullshit.
Again, even if everyone thinks capitalism is unsustainable, it doesn't make it so. Prove that it actually is unsustainable. Refute the arguments I have made throughout this exchange. That's the only way to prove yourself right.
Im not communist.
Its clear you have been lied to, nobody told you there was a 1000 year cycle of famines in the region, or that there was a trade embargo and when the first famine struck under communism the west asked for grain to trade.
You just hear Stalin murdered all those people.
Capitalism is unsustainable, making endless junk for people to buy ... a hand full owning half the wealth?
Oh, so a famine JUST SO HAPPENED to strike just when communism happened? Mmhmm? Again, sources to even begin to be considered relevant. And nothing biased. Historical sources, at worst second hand.
Stalin did murder, in the same way Hitler did, millions of people. This is a fact as much as the sky is blue. Of course, you'd think it red.
Why do you defend communism to the point of straight denial, going against Ockham's razor, Newton's flaming laser sword, and actually addressing all that's been said, if you're not a communist?
Despite all that, let capitalism speak for itself. Do you really know what unsustainable means? It means that it won't keep working; within a relevant timeframe, in practical purposes.
And yet, capitalism has worked very well for centuries. It hasn't collapsed. It hasn't been the cause of any genocides.
You still haven't provided any evidence. Making endless junk? No no no. You sound indoctrinated. Capitalism is about incentive. Those capable are incentivised to create quality goods for the people to earn their money, so they can also make a living and create better products. It's a cycle of improvement. You wouldn't have seen the computational revolution under communism. It is based on merit. I think that frightens you, because you haven't done much for yourself, but that's a bit too personal and irrelevant to dive into.
As I said, in communism, the government of a few people own nearly all of the wealth, and everyone else lives in crippling poverty. You're trying to argue against me about lying that capitalism works like that, but not even as extremely. What? Do you proofread? Do you think before you write? Or after? Do you ever delete anything while writing because it's not good enough?
In a capitalist society, the wealth is distributed according to merit, not according to who claims to be boss. It's a staircase, as I said. The better you are, the better you do.
In communism, you do very poorly, as I said about Russia, and it doesn't matter how good you are. Unless you're a government official, which is usually the same people over and over until they die, or their children take over and do the same thing, you are a peasant to the rest of the world. That is unsustainable, truly.
I see you as an American 16-22 year old who lives in an upper-middleclass household, still with his/her parents, even at 22, who is extremely spoiled and yet does nothing but sit on Reddit all day, defending the ideology that cost millions their lives, and hating on the system that brought you your parents' wealth. But you probably hate them, too, because they're not hippies like you. If they were, you wouldn't be so well-off.
Regardless of who you are, your understanding of politics and economics is completely misguided and wrong.
The famines were roughly every ten years.
The Golubev and Dronin report gives the following table of the major droughts in Russia between 1900 and 2000. Central: 1920, 1924, 1936, 1946, 1972, 1979, 1981, 1984. Southern: 1901, 1906, 1921, 1939, 1948, 1951, 1957, 1975, 1995. Eastern: 1911, 1931, 1963, 1965, 1991. Droughts and famines in Russia and the Soviet Union - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_and_famines_in_Russia_and_the_Soviet_Union
It can only survive by murdering, stealing, starving people and slave labour - until it kills the planet.
Let me know when that happens, comrade. Maybe by then, you'll answer my questions.
Your arguments are irrelevant because your basic premise is false.
Capitalism kills more people than communism.
Capitalist interests cut the food off during a famine and blamed it on Stalin.
None of those statements are true. You disregard what I say based on lies that you can't even source.
Before I'm completely sick of you, would you please answer two yes or no questions? Yes you would. Okay, in order:
Do you think that capitalists (the USA is apparently a synonym here, according to you, not part of the question, though) are the villains, and Stalin was a good and honest man and a victim to their hatred?
Are you a communist?
I'm getting eager to take you out of the picture that is my computer monitor. 4K just for this bullshit?
Not a communist.
Its historical fact that capitalist interests run economic warfare and trade blockaids against communist countries.
Its historical fact that russia had natural famines every ten years.
Its historical fact that capitalist interests were blocking food and agriculture modernization during the first famine under stalin.
You've got to be joking. Give me sources. You can state your opinion a billion times, but if you don't give me sources, it's meaningless.
You already have the sources for the famines being natural.
Its not controversial that capitalist countries put sanctions and trade blockaids on communist countries, it doesn't need a source.
EVERYTHING needs a source. If you want to convince someone of anything, you need a source. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
Im not making an extra ordinary claim - you are saying the things that make no sense.
Trade sanctions on communist or non conformist countries is normal, its called economic warfare.
You need to prove that capitalism is the cause of the downfall of the soviet union, to even get your foot through the door, and yet you waffle on, despite repeated requests, and you won't provide ANYTHING, instead calling me the villain, and that I need to prove something.
If you don't provide concrete sources in your next response, I win. You have no way to counter me, and since you don't, you have lost the argument. You don't have any, do you? Prove me wrong, then.
I didn't say the economic warfare was the cause of the downfall of the soviet union.
We will never know whether or not it would have worked because there was economic warfare against it since the get go.
You need to provide a source for the extraordinary claims that Russia wasnt experiencing natural famines and that sanctions and trade blockaids weren't being used against Russia.
I didn't make those claims. You were claiming that these things DID happen. I asked you to prove it. Turns out, all along, you were just Stalin...
You have failed to meet standard criteria. You'd think people'd be eager to prove themselves right, but I guess not. Goodbye.
I proved you had been lied to by showing you the famines were natural.
Your second demand - that I prove capitalist countries used economic warfare against the soviet union is absurd.
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Everyone with a brain knows that we would have a repeat of 1953 with millions of Chinese coming across the border. Unless they want war with China (and probably Russia too), it's never going to happen. It's only sabre-rattling.
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I feel like you should probably follow through with your assertion.
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