What are MRAs complaining about that is, though morally legitimate, over the top in the view of the "general public"? Examples: women raping men or women being more violent in intimate relationships. Is it biology that prevents people from seeing what is fair or do we live in a matriarchy?

Suck-Less · 2021-12-30T09:05:06+00:00

Women do commit DV more than men. The difference is that when men do it we cause more physical harm.

Here are two studies. The first shows 70% of physical DV is committed by women. The second shows 94% of women have admitted to being emotionally abusive.

So yes, women are more violent. Why are women a majority of the victims? Because women abuse women too. Unfortunately western cultures refuse to even talk about women v women violence as being a (significant?) contributing factor.

NIH report on women initiating spouse abuse. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2663360/

Huffers1010 · 2021-12-30T11:38:32+00:00

Something called the Overton window needs to be discussed here. Read the link; it explains things better than I could.

In essence, modern feminism has moved the Overton window to the point where huge latitude is given to people making overtly prejudiced statements or proposing prejudiced policies if that person claims to be doing so on behalf of a cause traditionally considered progressive. Meanwhile, people objecting to that overt prejudice are treated as if they had done something morally reprehensible.

(I'd hazard the opinion that most of the claims of feminists, if we accept that Reddit feminism probably has a lot of outliers in it, are still fairly uncontroversial.)

I don't think feminism in general has managed to do this through a deliberate effort of will; I think it's happened fairly organically on the basis that for a long time most of the claims of feminists were fairly reasonable and most people wanted to support the progressive agenda, which was completely reasonable for much of the mid-to-late twentieth century. As such, moving the window one way has been easy.

Moving it back is likely to be much more difficult. I find myself deeply uncomfortable with the idea of pushing away from what people claim are progressive, anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-bigot policies. My own politics is generally slightly left of centre, much as I dislike the oversimplification of the left-right axis of political thought. As such I'm willing to engage this argument only with the greatest care and in a constant state of self-examination.

The reason I reach the conclusions I do is that much of what modern identity politics is proposing - and hardline feminism in particular - is quite simply not an anti-prejudice policy. It's not progressive, left-of-centre politics. It's regressive and right-wing, perhaps far right, bordering on fascism, even as it dabbles in the power politics of the Marxian class struggle.

In short we need an argument to move the Overton window back to somewhere sensible, to the point where it's unacceptable to propose bigoted policies, and acceptable to criticise those policies. I think the most powerful argument is simply to point out that some of the policies proposed by hardline feminism are not progressive, not left of centre, and not representative of any sort of justice, social or otherwise.

Bara-enthusiast · 2021-12-30T10:41:39+00:00

First Question? Everything that they can no longer pretend isn't happening. Of they can't deny it they belittle.

The biological factor is small. In some cultures and historically men had stronger bonds and coddle women less, and women are less biased against men

AbysmalDescent · 2021-12-30T15:13:24+00:00

Most women seem to be under this mindset that it's perfectly acceptable to vilify/hate men and maintain an irrational fear of men, simply because men are, on average, physically stronger than women. This can extend to making excuses when women attack/harm men or react with vitriol, hostility and fear when men innocently approach them. This is also ignoring the fact that women can and do, in fact, harm men in countless ways, including influencing men to harm other men(both inside and outside the law), or that not every man is able to overpower every woman(or that women exclusively legitimize, judge and pick men over their physical strength).

shrickertt · 2021-12-30T10:40:29+00:00

biases generated via social media, which also continues to perpetuate the idea that men cannot be raped either. we live in a ridiculously gynocentric society, so that adds more fuel to the bin fire too. i always tell women about Phil Hartman, one of the best examples of “BUT MEN CAN'T BE RAPED/ABUSED!!”. no one cared about him or his cries for help until he was already dead.

Throwawaydangit82 · 2021-12-30T16:16:41+00:00

ID say so.

I was raped and groomed for years by a babysitter.

and as a bouncer it was rampant sexual assault.

What do they have in common not one ever got arrested for it.

63daddy · 2021-12-30T20:39:27+00:00

From what I see MRAs are complaining about ways men are not treated equally or fairly and as the name suggests want equal rights for men.

A big one for many MRAs has been the bias in child custody and to their credit MRAs have made some productive progress in this direction.

I don’t consider myself a MRA or any kind of activist for that matter, but I am concerned about many of the same issues. I think it’s terrible how education focuses on girls and is hostile to boys. I think make victims of domestic violence shouldn’t be denied the same help female victims receive. I think it’s unfair we have laws legally advantaging women in job hiring and business ownership.

These things aren’t about biology, they are about equal opportunity and non discrimination.

Algiz56 · 2021-12-30T08:10:29+00:00

It is social media bias, partially.

Partially, re-evaluating statistics.

Partially venting out.

Partially frustration due to shitty narratives western media and legal system promotes. A rightfull backlash.

BedSea4755 · 2021-12-30T18:05:34+00:00

Obviously and more seriously the pay gap between men and women. In my opinion that’s very clearly a product of innate differences between men and women not the system. Honestly the system probably favors women, with exception of maybe the top fraction of a percent of wealth holders, when it comes to earning a higher wage. The writing is on the wall with this, literally 60 percent of college students are girls now. Last time I checked there was a pretty high correlation between a higher income job and more advanced levels of school degrees ie bachelors, masters, phds???

matrixislife · 2021-12-30T20:29:50+00:00

Matriarchy: see Women are Wonderful effect.

BedSea4755 · 2021-12-30T17:58:16+00:00

You know what I think about the patriarchy, I think it was fun while it lasted braaaahs

ThePigmanAgain · 2021-12-30T08:32:42+00:00

Your examples are part of the reason we are seen as over the top. Not even I believe women are more violent in relationships. No, we need to focus on the rock solid facts like the education gap, the homelessness gap, the incarceration gap, the air con gap...oh, wait, that's a female problem. Damn the patriarchy and its air conditioners!

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