Women have problems. Men are problems.

whosiewhatsie67 · 2024-08-28T12:05:57+00:00

I think I'm noticing that the public harassment of men by women is increasing, and that men have no viable options when it happens. If a woman harasses you, you're supposed to fight back, but if you do, you're aggressive towards a woman, and that's a bad look, at best. If you don't fight back, you may spare yourself jail time, but you look weak. No options

TheTinMenBlog · 2024-08-28T11:56:18+00:00

It’s been many years since I hung up the megaphone and placard, dropped the ‘feminist’ label, and resigned myself to the dull reality that, actually, men and boys suffer too.

Without coincidence, it’s been almost every day since then, that my face has found itself scrunched permanently into some kind of confused, lost, frustrated or horrified new expression.

Let’s say… it’s been a journey.

But like anything you leave behind, looking back with enough distance and through a wide enough lens, you find an entirely new perspective.

And now, far away from the explosions and yells, I have some questions to ask –

Why is it that when it comes to women and girls advocacy, the accusatory finger rightfully points outwards, at society…

But when it comes to the same issues impacting men and boys, that accusatory finger doesn’t point out to society, but inward at men and boys themselves?

Why, for women do we cry ‘we must fix society!’

But to men we only ever say ‘men must fix themselves’.

Are men always and only the instigator and architects of their own pain?

And can men be a victim in their own right?

Does the average man on the street, really have that much power?

I am confused.

But there’s more –

‘Misogyny’, describes society’s gendered expectations and attitudes that hurt women.

Yet when it comes to society’s gendered expectations and attitudes that hurt men, well… that’s ‘toxic masculinity’ (and yes that’s men’s fault too).

I am lost.

No matter how, or where men and boys fall behind, or how many; ‘misandry’ doesn’t exist.

Well, at least that’s all I ever seem to hear.

Male homelessness, addiction, suicide, early death, work place fatality, incarceration… don’t listen to them.

Misandry implies victimhood.

And within a rigid worldview that exclusively paints men as privileged, such an admission may tug the tiny thread that unravels everything.

Such a revelation could wash away the contrived caracature society has painted of men, to reveal the naked and shocking truth…

That men can be victims too.

So is the narrative of social justice advocacy hypocritical?

What do you think?

chadgalaxy · 2024-08-28T14:26:34+00:00

The term 'internalised misogyny' itself is a perfect example of this, it's a term I've always hated.

It implies that misogyny is some kind of external factor that doesn't normally apply to women but somehow has in this certain case.

They never just use the term 'misogyny' which can just as easily applied. There's nothing gender specific in the definition of the term as to who can perpetuate it.

A man IS a misogynist, it's who he is and it's on him. A woman HAS internalised misogyny, it's come from somewhere else, like a disease, so it's not her fault.

It's deliberate and insidious language used to uphold the notion that men are inherently bad and women are inherently good.

Wheekie · 2024-08-28T13:03:31+00:00

And when men go their own way because men don't want to play the rigged game anymore, men are still somehow the problem?

/s

edit: removed an extra word

PeonSupremeReturns · 2024-08-28T15:07:45+00:00

Men have to drop out of society, because it holds nothing for them. None of its resources are available to them. Men don’t belong to society. They merely build it and maintain it. They are nothing but the hired help.

The reason men don’t drop out is that there’s nothing waiting for them once they do, either. If men want an alternative society, they will have to build it for themselves, one man at a time; and women can never know about it because they will howl and hurl accusations of discrimination. It’s a daunting task.

Baby_Arrow · 2024-08-28T14:11:03+00:00

Ask google what do we call gendered expectations which hurt men - the answer is toxic masculinity. Ask google what do we call gendered expectations which hurt women - the answer is sexism.

My son isn’t even 3 years old, but it’s his fault apparently.

SympatheticListener · 2024-08-28T14:14:25+00:00

Totally agree, but the mainstream media narrative is impossible to beat.

Current_Finding_4066 · 2024-08-28T12:44:53+00:00

You forgot the most important one: I should be the provider.

I see it included later on. But it should be on top of shoulds.

aerial_coitus · 2024-08-28T12:32:32+00:00

Agree 100%.

Excellent post, thank you for making this.

themolestedsliver · 2024-08-28T16:25:45+00:00

100% agree and its the most damning issue I have with so called "toxic masculinity".

When we are talking about women's issues like that, there is an overwhelming amount of support and understanding.

Meanwhile, when we talk about male issues? "Why do men expect us to solve their problems?" Is a common go-to.

Way too many femnists like to pretend the femnist movement and all it's accomplishments was women pulling themselves by their bootstraps and yet that is just objectively not the case.

Plenty of men, even early on to the movement, aided the cause, supported their newspapers, and in the case of many, supported them outright as their husband.

So when femnists talk about them solving male issues I can't help but think about that.

Education and femnism don't like to go hand and hand though....

ApprehensiveMail8 · 2024-08-28T17:55:23+00:00

Light bulb!

If you are male and you choose to do what is expected of you by traditional gender roles you get blamed for it!

But if you choose to defy what is expected of you, you get blamed for it!

Thanks for making us play a game we can't win.

hendrixski · 2024-08-28T19:49:42+00:00

100% this.

We should all seriously talk about Internalized Misandry and throw away the horrible framing that is "toxic masculinity".

GltyUntlPrvnInncnt · 2024-08-28T14:38:12+00:00

It's been like this for a long time now. Women have a problem, society needs to change. Men have a problem, men need to change.

2024-08-28T17:38:00+00:00

Bang on the heads. Men should be free to choose a domestic life, play video games all day, help around the house and take care of the children. Women should not judge them for it. They shouldn't be jealous of it or go cheat. They shouldn't be societal opposition to it from a girl's parents or family. If women can "choose" careers, men should be allowed to choose domestication as well. If we are not, we should go our own way.

LunarRiviera21 · 2024-08-28T18:21:54+00:00

My hometown is pretty conservative, especially when it comes to politics and culture...

and yes i have experienced all this "MEN ARE PROBLEMS" sentiment...i was the victim of "WE MUST GET RID OF HIM" type situation

It is not only from feminism/left-leaning sphere too...and yes i am still shocked by this

JT98191 · 2024-08-28T21:45:34+00:00

Facts.

xxTheMagicBulleT · 2024-08-28T14:44:57+00:00

Nicely put together how many men feel. And how many women and news and government look at men.

So very well put together.

ayhme · 2024-08-28T15:33:20+00:00

How do you make those?

lucasjlg3 · 2024-08-28T23:16:56+00:00

The “narrative of social justice advocacy” told by feminism is hypocritical in that not all women are less fortunate than the lowest ranking man. Narrative itself is hypocritical in that it is merely a representation of reality.

To combat the victimization of men, men being victims must become sufficiently “real” or good for it to be told in mass. Posts such as yours are helpful and the only way of manufacturing what must also be a somewhat natural occurrence.

dudester3 · 2024-08-30T04:10:12+00:00

Eye opening logic. Thank you.

LelouchviBrittaniax · 2024-08-29T03:53:22+00:00

First picture is how women should be. They clearly far from it.

Then people wonder why more than half of the millennials are single. No mystery here: boomers "liberated" women. Now there "liberated" women are useless and no one wants them.

The_Meatyboosh · 2024-08-28T18:11:38+00:00

I think every word has a root origin, and binary descriptions must have an opposite and a mirror.
Toxic masculinity is simply the natural parts of masculinity that have been focused on the wrong thing or enhanced to a degree that is unhealthy for the man e.g men work as hard as possible all their lives to provide for women, leading to a life of high stress, pain and injury, avoidable medical problems, early death.
These things aren't necessarily wrong, but they have been used in the wrong manner to promote certain actions and mindsets to the man's own detriment.
The same then is true of women. If femininity is a thing, then surely toxic femininity is also a thing, natural feminine traits used in the wrong manner to promote certain actions and mindsets to the woman's own detriment. Yet this is called toxic masculinity having forced those things onto women.
There is a lack of accountability, and quite frankly it's an immature mind which likes to be the oppressed so they can fight against an enemy, like teens often like to do. Many people don't grow out of their angsty teenage mindset. It's harder to promote change within yourself than it is to blame others and ask them to change.

Illustrious-Spare-30 · 2024-08-28T23:33:02+00:00

You guys have got to read or watch videos about Esther Vilar and her book "The Manipulated Man" if you want the answer to why these double standards exist.

Other-Bug-5614 · 2024-09-02T13:24:14+00:00

I don’t agree. There’s not much reason to call it internalized misandry because it’s not caused by a societal discrimination or hate against men. It’s caused by high expectations of men, which goes hand in hand with misogyny. It’s caused by society putting men on such a high pedestal for so many years, and still being pressured to hold up that pedestal and expectation when there’s no reason to anymore.

The reason it’s called internalized misogyny is because for most of human history until recent centuries, women were viewed as less and people that are merely complementary to men. Nobody believed they were able to go to school, get a job, take care of themselves — not even go outside alone without a man. That is discriminatory on women. It’s taking away opportunities from them simply because of their gender, and telling them that they’re only complementary to men and should never try to be above a man, or try to take the position of a man. It’s internalized misogyny because it’s holding up the same system of oppression and limitation that’s been put on women for millennia.

Men aren’t discriminated or limited by masculinity — because it’s just a social construct created by men to keep men on top and keep them away from being anything like a woman because women are viewed negatively. Women are discriminated and limited by misogyny.

The reason toxic masculinity is even a phrase is because of a deconstruction deciding that it’s OKAY to do things and feel things that are traditionally feminine, and forcing yourself into this system is unnecessary and only hurts you. It’s unhealthy. It’s toxic.

Internalized misogyny is toxic femininity, but the reason it’s called misogyny is because it’s limiting and discriminating against women, and these stereotypical traits are there to keep women from gaining power over men.

Both should be deconstructed, and society should come together and accept that we need each other and nobody should be forcing themselves to be something they’re not because of conventions decided thousands of years ago. Both sides should see their flaws and come together and deconstruct and fix them.

panopticonmelon · 2024-08-28T17:35:39+00:00

I don't think the part that poses the idea that 'toxic masculinity' should be called 'internalised misandry' makes much sense. These standards of strength and dominance actually rise out of traditional gender roles. The 1950s typical nuclear family ideal assigns women to being quiet and meek housewives and men to being strong, unemotional providers. Isn't this just another way the patriarchy harms men as well? Of course these expectations are frustrating and hurtful to men, but it's significant to note that they arise not from misandry but from our lingering patriarchal history.

RadiantRadicalist · 2024-08-28T16:49:17+00:00

I feel controversial today. the "Toxic" masculinity page describes positive masculinity besides the "I should be assertive" I should be big" I should be Disciplinarian" "I should be in charge" and "I should be dominant" parts never being there. they fall into "Toxic" masculinity which should have its own page(and in greater media isn't commonly portrayed alongside Positive masculinity which is just non-existent.

also we don't see toxic misandry because you don't see much dudes saying, "I should defend women" "I should serve women" "I should pay for women" "I should die for women" "I must be married to a woman" "any person not in a relationship with a woman I deem inferior to I" and "I am a slave to woman" despite how much "Man defend woman" stuff we drill into children.

the page concerning internalized misogyny describes it successfully the reason it even came about was because of a "Reward" a woman would get for believing she was inherently inferior to the male gender and by spurring it on to other woman again another reason we don't see internalized misandry is because you don't get rewarded for saying you're inferior to the female gender. along with that all the traits put in the page are considered stereotypical "feminine" behavior? (another thing we need to grow away from)

the first man box has two things that raises my eyebrow the first being "Men are disposable" and portrays it as a good thing. the second is "Men hide emotions" which also portrays it as a good thing. (I really do wish I could do that) and we aren't apathetic.

and the remainder of said traits are kind of. "Dependent" on said man not all of us are literal workhorses with 1940s level of interest in being under-paid.

bluehorserunning · 2024-08-29T02:20:21+00:00

Tell me you don’t know what ‘toxic masculinity’ means without telling me.

Title	Women have problems. Men are problems.
Author	TheTinMenBlog
Upvotes	976
Comments	75
Date	August 28, 2024 11:55 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1f38949/women_have_problems_men_are_problems/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/women-have-problems-men-are-problems.1528652 https://theredarchive.com/post/1528652

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/s