Can cheating ever be justified?

lbspredh · 2015-07-02T11:44:15+00:00

Only in monopoly

PetticoatRuled · 2015-07-02T08:53:14+00:00

Maybe in the case of a mental illness such as early-onset dementia or brain injury where the partner isn't capable of a sex life anymore and you want to keep caring for them. The partner might not want you to go outside the marriage but you're between a rock and a hard place in the above scenario. Cheating could be ok in this scenario to stop you from going nuts.

I've been in an almost sexless live-together relationship, in which the stress of running his own business took away his sex drive. I don't believe that cheating was warranted in this case. I didn't see him giving me sex as part of 'the contract'. It isn't. It wouldn't have helped anyway - if the passion isn't there, I don't want the sex anyway (well, I do, but work with me here. I'd far prefer sex with passion than without)

If you're not happy and you've tried to fix things over and over but you can't, then you leave. A clean break. No cheating.

The no-sex thing formed part of the reason that I ended the relationship. I found someone else within a couple of months and am still with him today.

[deleted] · 2015-07-02T13:10:20+00:00

Why does it need to be justified or not justified? The other partner accepts it or doesn't accept it, breaks up or does't.

TheQuickAndTheRed · 2015-07-02T14:47:16+00:00

Not really, and under super fringe circumstances.

I had a buddy who his girlfriend organized a threesome (FFM). But on the way there his girlfriend had some car trouble (rather I-Forgot-To-Get-Gas-Trouble) so he and the other chick started foreplay while they waited, and eventually things escalated.

By the time his girlfriend got there, the other chick already went home. So they just cuddled up and watched a movie.

But like, other than that; your word is your bond and generally if you've agree'd to exclusive commitment and can't keep it, you shouldn't be in an exclusive committed relationship.

GaiusScaevolus · 2015-07-02T13:57:57+00:00

The only way cheating becomes morally 'grey' (I don't think it ever becomes ok) is when the other partner has cheated first. By way of example, my buddy J had a gf who would party and end up doing mouth or hand stuff with an ex on a relatively consistent basis, only to cry when she got caught about how sorry she was and how much she loved (lol) J. J has a deep seated fear of being alone so he would tolerate it and take her back. One time, J got drunk and fucked a mutual friend, and his gf threw a tantrum and dumped him and threatened to go to the cops and say he raped her.

I don't think J's actions were moral or correct, but I do think that given how his gf defined the standards and value of the relationship, she had no standing to react how she did.

OfSpock · 2015-07-02T07:53:33+00:00

I'd say when one person has expressed a desire to get out of the marriage and the other partner tries to keep them there. Fictional example, Skylar having sex with Ted after she told Walter she wanted out. This doesn't usually come up these days, it was more of a thing when one person could hold up the divorce.

Which is an odd statement for me to make because I hated Ted. That woman had shit taste in men.

crazydave1979 · 2015-07-02T16:23:56+00:00

You can justify anything to yourself.

Will your SO agree? Probably not

despisedlove2 · 2015-07-02T19:48:46+00:00

No. There are no possible justifications for cheating.

TOOCGamer · 2015-07-02T13:03:30+00:00

No. There is no 'legitimate' reason for cheating, unless the person was raped [which I really wouldn't count as cheating in the first place, but I'm stating assumptions clearly here]. You made a promise to only be with your SO - if you break that promise, you can't be trusted any more. And if I can't trust you, I'm not sharing a bed with you.

Rape is the only time 'cheating' is out of someone's control. If you get slammed drunk and have a huge orgy, you still cheated. Period. You should have stopped drinking when you started to size up the meat.

TheGreasyPole · 2015-07-02T07:36:59+00:00

Yes. I believe they can.

A marriage is a contract between two people. Large parts of that contract remain unspoken but are legitimate parts of the contract nonetheless.

So "I will not have sex with another man/woman" is just such an unspoken part of that contract.

However, I would say that the unspoken deal extends further than that. That is the simple version above, the sophisticated and more honest version is

"I will seek all my sexual contact with you. I will not have sex with another man/woman so long as I can continue being sexually intimate with you"

I.e a marriage isn't a contact "not to have sex with someone else" but a contract to "get all my sexual contact from you".

That's the real deal going on.

Now. This becomes important when one partner denies the other partner that sexual contact. Where one partner decides "I don't want to have sex with you no more".

In my eyes this breaches the deal. Certainly over a long enough period 12m+ I would consider this one partner voluntarily reneging on that particular part of the marriage deal.

In this case, and as long as there have been repeated efforts to sort this out, then the other partner has two options...

1) End the marriage. End the whole deal, not just this part of it.

This may be impossible or damaging to both partners and kids though. Many men and women do not want to take this option due to the wider damage caused.

But there is also...

2) Consider this clause only broken. Retain the rest of the marriage but ultimately declare "If you won't have sex with me, the deals broken. It was a deal to satisfy my sexual desires with you and no one else you are breaking that deal by not allowing me to do so. I will seek to have them satisfied elsewhere in the future"

And that's pretty much that. Tell her straight. Go do what you need to do.

That's the circumstance in which I can consider cheating justified.

Marriage is supposed to be an exclusive sexual relationship.

If one partner unilaterally removes the "sexual" part the other is justified in removing the "exclusive" part.

Marriage is meant to be a lifelong sexual partnership. Not a life long contract of celibacy.

prodigy2throw · 2015-07-02T17:11:02+00:00

I can't see a situation in which cheating on someone you are in a relationship and care about is justified. That's because I don't jump into relationships without weighing out the pros and cons so if I'm in it i'm in it for real.

Lots of people rush things and get into relationships not knowing the person or what they're like. If you cheat, relationships over. Simple as that.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2015-07-02T19:19:16+00:00

Anything can be "justified"

haircombsnightmare · 2015-07-02T15:15:50+00:00

I don't think so. Not even if the other partner cheated on you; I think it's still a silly and immature thing. That it has an origin for sure, but nothing really justifies hurting another human being because you aren't able to make decisions.

thereddespair · 2015-07-02T15:24:13+00:00

yes. not everyone can so easily leave their relationships. unlimited possibilities.

its like saying life only exists here on earth

sohamster · 2015-07-02T16:16:19+00:00

The only possible reason I can think of: A persons mate has horrendous brain damage and is on life support, their intellect is now that of a carrot. They need to stay married for the medical insurance.

SaintOfPirates · 2015-07-03T00:50:34+00:00

Is cheating ever out of someone's control?

There is a small part of the population that for several reasons (most of them related to sexual abuse or malformed interpersonal wiring related to sex) who are incapable of not buckling to sexual advances, or sexual situations, no matter how unwanted.

This isn't exactly consent per say, when it happens, its more akin to being unable to not go thru the motions in an automatic fashion.

Its also not quite a complete lack of consent either, its more like the switch is set to "yes" as a default, rather than a neutral position.

In those cases, cheating may actually be out of someones control.

peptastic · 2015-07-03T23:43:14+00:00

I don't think cheating is justifiable. The people who do probably rationalized it to a point they don't think of it as cheating at all. Emotional affairs is a term thrown about a lot online. I guess it depends on the couple how they take Internet only affairs. My older sister thought cheating online only was cheating and her husband did not. They discussed her feelings about this before they got married, so it WAS cheating. Now do I think once a cheater, always a cheater? Cheating can be caused by immaturity. If you'd rather avoid a problem like breaking up first you might grow up and resolve your issues. If you marry the married guy who left his wife, wouldn't you worry youd lose him the same way you "got him"?

randomquestionsblah · 2015-07-04T12:01:38+00:00

I honestly think it can be justified with abuse. Sometimes it can be difficult to break free from the abuser and sometimes getting with someone else can be a way of reclaiming your strength. When I was in my senior year of high school, I had a boyfriend that would demonstrate characteristics of someone possessive and controlling. At first I thought the jealousy was "cute" and it meant he loved me but over time, it wasn't "cute" anymore. He called me a slut because I was wearing shorts in 90 degree JULY weather and once PUSHED me because my mom was calling me to go home and he didn't want me to leave. He wanted me to disobey my mom and stay over at his place. (Keep in mind- I was still in HIGH SCHOOL). Each time something like this happened, I would try to break free but he'd beg me back and promise to change each time and he never did. The 'change' only lasted about a week and then he was back to being overly controlling and possessive. So, one day an old flame came back around and I was presented with the opportunity to cheat. It was just a kiss- nothing sexual but that gave me the strength and courage that I needed to make an exit. I simply called him and told him what had happened. I heard him cuss me out and he posted an outrageous status belittling me on facebook - But I was fine. I knew this time it was over for good and that I wouldn't take him back if he tried. I witnessed my mother stay in an abusive relationship for 13 years and she had several opportunities to cheat on my dad and give another man a chance but she never did because she was too afraid. Eventually, I had to get her out of the situation by speaking with a counselor.

teeay · 2015-07-02T12:40:51+00:00

Interesting you don't include "emotional cheating", which is a bigger deal for some people. Interesting too that you specify mono and hetero - polys/gays can cheat too, you know. I think cheating happens fairly often owing to lust/love, and that it's not so rational as people think. Maybe not "out of control" though, because we are always accountable. I'm not saying it's OK because it's in the heat of the moment either, but maybe like Dan Savage says, we should treat monogamy like sobriety, not like virginity. You can fall off the wagon but then sober back up again. His YouTube "Dan Savage on Swinging and Monogamy" is worth a watch.

For the record, I think:

Monogamy is a purely social convention indoctrinated into us without fair consideration of alternatives, mainly because of religious conviction and property law. Monogamy as the "only true" choice is as much bullshit as Christianity as the "only true" religion. People don't choose monogamy because it's better, they choose it by default because non-mono is generally vilified or they know no better. So the whole ethical basis for your question is flawed.
All fucking is fine, unless there is coercion, or diminished consent. Rape is bad, pedo is bad, bestiality is bad. Anything else is fine. We have so many irrational hangups about sex. Fucking is what animals do. We're animals. People who want to fuck each other should fuck each other. Individually, in groups, whatever genders, whichever bits go into whichever holes or don't, wherever they want, I don't care, it's all OK.
Controlling other adults is bad. If you want to be sexual with someone, you can choose to give them that. If you want to be exclusive with someone, you can give them that, too. But it's not reasonable to demand that they behave in a particular way because you want them to. You can of course make your actions conditional on theirs (I will only fuck you/stay with you if you don't fuck anyone else), but that must be explicit and informed in order to have any validity - not just the default social setting like it almost always is.
Deceit is bad, and cheating as you've defined it is doing something that you reasonably assume the other person doesn't want to you do without telling them. If someone offers to fuck me on condition that I never fuck anyone else, and I accept that offer break the deal, then I am a scumbag and deserve consequences. If they stop fucking me for whatever reason, then they're a scumbag and deserve consequences. It's a contract.

But what if the other person's conditions are tacit, and I "accept" them by default because I'm indoctrinated, but I subsequently change (wise up)? If the contract was overt, I could say "I don't want to follow that anymore, and would like to terminate/renegotiate". Rational discussion would follow and a new agreement would emerge. But where it's covert, if I change my view I'm fucked in all ways:

if I raise the prospect of renegotiating the deal the other person will in all likelihood go nuclear, because their concept of sexual exclusivity is held at a non-rational level, bound closely to their identity, hooked into insecurity and all sorts of other crap. We are weird about sex. Divorce laws make this materially risky. "Hey honey, I'd like to fuck someone else... BOOOM!" Divorce would be the usual, albeit insane, response to that.
Breaking the agreement secretly (cheating) or pre-emptively (divorce) are both materially disadvantageous, the only difference is with cheating there's actually a lower risk of ruin - I may get away with it - whereas with divorce it's certain.

All of these bring hurt to the other person, who the prospective cheater probably doesn't want to hurt. (If they do, they should divorce already).

Not cheating and staying mono forever is a bleak punishment for a possibly ill-informed decision made when I was young, foolish, and in love, and hurts me. Fucking only one person for all eternity is a waste of human life, particularly for men.

Modern monogamous marriage is a game you can't win. Cheating is actually a sane economic decision: if you are careful enough you can get away with it, and then nobody gets hurt. Sure that's unlikely. But there are no other good outcomes.

No guy wants to cheat and hurt his woman. First of all, think about what cheating is for a second ladies. Cheating is a man, he sneaks out of his own house to go and find some happiness behind your back. Just so YOUR feelings aren't hurt. Cheating is for you, it's not for me. - Patrice O'Neal

Potential downvoters: how about providing a reasoned counter-argument rather than the usual one-click reddit censorship? I genuinely would be interested to hear where the above logic is wrong.

CuntyMcFagNuts69 · 2015-07-02T13:32:24+00:00

Hell no. Flirting is one thing. But once a woman starts going to other men for things only I should be providing, her ass is getting a hard next.

ToshiroOzuwara · 2015-07-02T15:46:04+00:00

Justification is rationalization is hamstering.

Humans (men and women) are excellent at this.

Americans have accepted dropping nukes on Japan twice. Most of the world has accepted Guantanamo.

Our greatest strength might be our capacity to rationalize.

I don't believe in the fairy tale of loyalty or morality. Sure some folks will occasionally demonstrate these traits but an even greater number will show the opposite.

Because I am a huge fan of negative visualization (assume all snakes are poisonous for example) I don't allow myself to fall into the trap of expecting the best out of people. I might miss out on some rewarding relationships, but I rarely get burned.

Humans are dangerous. They can be safe, but that is not the default factory setting.

fzed1199 · 2015-07-02T08:19:14+00:00

Husband/boyfriend wants sex from significant other but she doesn't want to and will not let him have sex with other women.

lolobviously · 2015-07-02T07:25:59+00:00

You are implying that it is inherently immoral to fellate or have intercourse with someone who is not your primary receiver of felatio or intercourse. All is fair in love and war.

Title	Can cheating ever be justified?
Author	gavinok
Upvotes	5
Comments	121
Date	July 2, 2015 7:20 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3bukix/can_cheating_ever_be_justified/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/can-cheating-ever-be-justified.281281 https://theredarchive.com/post/281281

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