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Define "femininity" and "masculinity" in your own words.

Lucy_Furr
October 18, 2014
6 upvotes
/r/PurplePillDebate
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Post Information
Title Define "femininity" and "masculinity" in your own words.
Author

Lucy_Furr
Upvotes 6
Comments 58
Date October 18, 2014 5:33 PM UTC
(11 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2jmdmv/define_femininity_and_masculinity_in_your_own/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/define-femininity-and-masculinity-in-your-own.284568
https://theredarchive.com/post/284568
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Comments

[–]an_absolute_roseRed Pill Boy9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Some would argue that femininity and masculinity cannot truly be defined as they are ever changing.

Traditional femininity and masculinity are highly thought of in RP circles. For femininity that would be to stay fit, dress nice, be pleasant, display submissiveness, etc. For masculinity that would be to lift, dress nice, be stoic, display dominance, etc.

[–]BluesFBlue Pill Man2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

This is slightly unrelated, but I'm interested in TRP's interpretation of stoicism. Are we talking just the common usage of the word, or the historical philosophical one? If the latter, what elements of stoicism do TRP use, and how?

Sorry if that's a big ask, ahah.

[–]an_absolute_roseRed Pill Boy1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

The historical context is a bit high brow for TRP so the common usage is typically used there, but even though the philosophical significance isn't mentioned specifically it does shine through in some TRP ideas.

TRP often cites the 48 laws of power, which often advocates stoic dominance over a vast myriad of scenarios. If you are unaware here's a good summarizing link for each law: http://48laws-of-power.blogspot.com/?m=1

Self control is something which TRP advocates to extremes at times. Men who subscribe to TRP are supposed to, in a perfect world, subscribe to the idea of becoming somebody who is better than the average person. Ubermensch would be the ultimate goal. To become this caricature one must have self control. Extremists will argue for /r/nofap, strict dieting, commitment to lifting, commitment to your career, cold showers, etc. The idea being that if you can sacrifice now while you're young you can be a king by the time you're in your thirties.

Most men who subscribe to ideas like TRP are already heavily logical thinking minds so emphasis in this area I'd not necessarily needed.

The most common use of stoicism on TRP is definitely the absence of emotion over actions, feelings, and speech encouraged upon members. Some advocate to remain mysterious for as long as possible by saying few words but appropriately conveying what you want people to hear. The idea being that the longer a girl is trying to figure you out the more interested in you she will be.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I try to follow the 48 Laws whenever possible, I have found them to be effective as have many rich businesspeople and celebrities, so ya know, tried and tested shit that is.

This link is better though.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Femininity is caring about others, masculinity is protecting and supporting those who care about others. Either gender can have either characteristic and can have both.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

"Masculinity/femininity" is highly dependent on the culture and time period. It is ever changing and is defined by society. That being said, they are boxes that limit people, in my opinion.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

God damn it your flair gets me every fucking time

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yo listen up here's a story about a little guy that lives in a blue world

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

God damn it I'm listening right now, this has been in my head forever. Reminds me of riding the bus with tinted windows in 8th grade

[–]McCaberBlue3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

A bullshit false dichotomy.

[–]Aughin 3 points3 points3 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Why? How? How has it gone this far without its obviously artificial structure being broken down?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Because people are sheep?

[–]Aughin 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But if that's true shouldn't the few people who aren't sheep see the truth? And since the majority are sheep can't those who see the truth fairly easily lead these poor lost individuals to the truth?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not really. Humans are always going to follow the herd and always go for trends. Those that do know "the truth" are normally very few. If these few were to gain enough following (Jesus Christ for example) then yeah, they might be able to make a much larger impact.

[–]niczarRed Pill Man-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

X,Y chromosomes don't real.

[–]McCaberBlue5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The overt cultural trappings of masculinity and femininity have nothing to do with chromosomes. Classical Greek men considered showing strong emotions and shedding tears to be a sign of manliness, and the women of the Teutons and Cimbri were known to be tougher than the men.

Saying that what we consider masculine and feminine behaviors are controlled by your chromosomes is like saying that our standards of beauty are set in stone while ignoring the evidence in art of the past that cultural standards shift over time.

[–]niczarRed Pill Man-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

One of the symptoms of abnormaly high female hormones in men is emotivity and crying.

Fuck the blank slate.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What really makes those particular hormones "female" rather than just "human" hormones? Both men and women have testosterone and estrogen, just generally in different rationed quantities. Sure some men may have higher levels of estrogen than average, but I don't think you can really call them "feminized" for that since biologically speaking they're still a man.

Think about it like cars, one car is a 4 cylinder and the other is an 8. One burns more gas and drives faster than the other, but at the end of the day they're both cars that are totally capable of going from point A to point B. This does not mean that one car is "less of a car" because structurally, they're both cars.

Also, XX vs XY chromosomes aren't going to dictate socialized behavior, they dictate your anatomical structure and biochemistry.

[–]niczarRed Pill Man-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What really makes those particular hormones "female" rather than just "human" hormones?

You can't be fucking serious.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Both estrogen and testosterone are hormones that are present in both men and women.

In the average 20 something male, testosterone levels are higher than a female, but both hormones are present. If a particular male has lower testosterone, that doesn't mean that he's "more female" it means that his testosterone is lower.

Sure, according to traditional gender roles in western society generally speaking he might act more "feminine" than the male with higher testosterone who may act more machismo.. But those are just learned roles through socialization.. Just like how some gay men can be just like a regular guy rather than the way we expect to see him; like the "I'm a fabulous queen! OMG!" cartoon character society depicts of gay men.

I guess I'm getting kind of politically correct with this and I understand how that can get annoying. I just wanted to explain my reasoning.

[–]powerkickPoly, Bi, Blue, Betafag8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Bullshit. That's my definition of both femininity and masculinity. A social collar placed around you at birth that you are expected to adhere to without question until your brain stops functioning. The truth is, I can't go suck a dick and NOT be gay, when in actuality I am bi. I can't show any vulnerability around anybody because it makes me look like a constantly-vulnerable person. I can't hate sports because that isn't masculine. It's all bullshit that really doesn't get us anywhere and it's done me more harm than good throughout my life.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But masculinity and femininity is innard, as shown by that kid in Canada who was the unfourtunate victim of a butchered circumcision. Forced fed hormones and trans-procedures his brain was masculine and couldn't handle being in a femine role causing him to commit suicide as a teenager.

[–]pickup_sticks 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

So women are brainwashed into being attracted to masculine traits? They have no agency?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Total straw man.

[–]pickup_sticks 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Dude, you're the one making claims about masculinity as complete social constructs. I'm just asking why, if that's the case, men and women nonetheless still find those traits attractive.

Further, you say:

can't hate sports because that isn't masculine.

Whoever told you that? I know lots of guys who aren't into sports. No one ever says they're a pussy. Straw man indeed.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not the person who made that claim actually but I know a straw man when I see one and this:

So women are brainwashed into being attracted to masculine traits? They have no agency?

is a pretty big one. He never brought up agency or women being attracted to masculine traits.

[–]Plugawy_Nedznik 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A social collar placed around you at birth that you are expected to adhere to without question until your brain stops functioning

This ain't tumblr, bro. Sis. Xis. Xo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjernevask

Here, educate yourself.

[–]Aughin 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

IT haven't done you any harm really. YOU have done yourself harm by caring too much of what people think when you when you are unable to live up to their expectations.

And if someone has physically hurt you because you don't live up to something. That person is most likely not consciously enforcing the norm what you didn't live up to, that person is mentally immature or possibly ill and dangerous. Normal people don't care if you are different as long as you don't get in their way.

There is no enemy in these things except yourself and the weight you put into other peoples mostly passive believes about gender.

There is no magical force conspiring to make people feel horrible by setting unrealistic standards. Its simply those standards the majority of the population are born with and enjoy.

[–]powerkickPoly, Bi, Blue, Betafag1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't quite think you understand though I definitely understand where you're coming from. I wish whoever downvoted you hadn't downvoted you.

I can't quite say it's my own fault that I am unable to control the flow of stigma through my mind. Not giving a shit is really really hard when literally everyone else gives a shit whether you give a shit. Not giving a shit opens yourself up to a new stigma of being apathetic. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Then I suppose that makes it even more bullshit, doesn't it? No, it's not a vast conspiracy. Nobody has time for that. It is a very subtle harmful frame of mind, however, that each person subtlely maintains and that's what makes the social pressure of gender roles and masculinity/femininity so....sharp, I guess the word would be.

SHOULD I care that so many people (blegh, I've seen TRP discussions claiming this as wel) believe that I am a "delayed gay" rather than bisexual? No, I shouldn't. I would very much like not to. It's hard, however, when all people need to do is give you the benefit of the doubt. Give you an agreement for once, instead of staunch, unsupported belief.

Nobody conciously pressures me to like sports, but they are whenever I hear the question (from oh so many men) "what sport do you play". Of course, I snarkily reply "xbox" and they all laugh. I have the same reply for instruments. Nobody consciously pressures me to like sports, but they are whenever they invite me over to watch a game, which is the only time they are receptive to hanging out it seems.

Those are just a couple examples of how the idea of masculinity affects me. It might not affect you in the same way and that's fine.

[–]TheThingsIThink 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Being feminine would be demure, creative power is often spent nesting (making home more comfortable) risk adverse (woman would rather get a man with success than support a man's major gamble to be more successful). Women have a lot of money insecurity.

Masculine would be dominant, creative power is spent on making things of utility (why tools are always a good bet) men are more risk positive. Men get money and get ballin'.

[–]soylentblueissmurfsSoylent Red1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It would be circular, what I deem feminine and masculine is highly subjective and mostly subconcious and probably generated by the loop in my brain that scans for gender so I can direct my sexuality.

[–]babyguineapig1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Masculinity and femininity are at each end of the spectrum of gendered behavior. Most people display a mixture of both.

[–]GuildedCasketNot RP, occasional circle jerk participant1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Femininity and masculinity have definitions that vary somewhat by culture, so I'll try and think of traits that, to me, seem to not vary much across cultures.

Femininity: a cluster of traits that tend to go with the role of motherhood (but not always). More empathy, turning to negotiation before violence, protectiveness of children. Other things are traits like softness and meekness, but they go more in hand with submissiveness to masculinity, and that is a concept that is almost starting to phase out in western countries.

Masculinity: A cluster of traits that tend to go along with being a protector or breadwinner, has a more violent tinge to it. Bravado ("mate/property guarding" behaviors), loudness, strong leadership as opposed to negotiating. More violent. Strength tends to go in here. There's also a nicer side to it that involves a sense of protection of one's mate but not necessarily children, country, religion, etc. Willingness to self sacrifice.

[–]awesomesalsaMr. Ogynist0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

if men didn't evolve to protect their children, we wouldn't be here

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Men didn't "evolve" to protect their children. You're talking as if the prototypes before modern man never took care of their offspring and that somewhere along the way "evolution" did it's thing. Animals who give birth to incredibly dependent young (i.e. Human infants) usually have parental investment from both parties. Not to mention that modern humans evolved from incredibly social animals. So no, men didn't "evolve" to protect their children, the imperative to do so was always there.

[–]awesomesalsaMr. Ogynist0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

You read way too much into my comment

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Well, this is a debate sub.

[–]awesomesalsaMr. Ogynist0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Debate not abrasive argumentativeness

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

How is it abrasive?

[–]awesomesalsaMr. Ogynist0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Reread it when you're not in a grumpy moood

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm not in a grumpy mood. This is a debate sub, my bad for thinking you were up for some debate.

[–]awesomesalsaMr. Ogynist0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I am but I don't debate strawmen and I'm not gonna hold your hand and explain how everything you said was a strawman. If you can't figure that shit out yourself you're not worth my time.

[–][deleted]1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It wasn't a strawman. Your comment was bad science, I simply corrected you. No need to get bent out of shape.

[–]awesomesalsa1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

k

[–][deleted]1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

K.

[–]deepthrillAlreadyRed Mod, TRP Endorsed Contributor0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Masculinity: Both the hunter and the provider.

Apply those terms to any time period you wish and adapt appropriately.

[–]namae_nanka0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Man is in the world, woman is of the world.

[–]adrixshadowIndigo Pill(aka dark and evil occult pill)0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The masculine is the will.

The feminine is the chalice that hold the will.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In theory /u/an_absolute_rose's answers are basically right. In practice it depends on the individual.

[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

This is masculinity, buddy boys.

http://i.imgur.com/ZGpjyTZ.jpg

You don't look like that? You might as well NOT EXIST.

Don't kid yourself. This guy could WALK IN YOUR HOUSE RIGHT NOW AND FUCK YOUR WIFE/GIRLFRIEND, without saying a single word.

And you'd be powerless to stop him.

[–]GuildedCasketNot RP, occasional circle jerk participant10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Eugh. I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole, those arms creep me out. Give me my twinky dark haired boys pls.

[–]awesomesalsaMr. Ogynist-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

translation: "Hot guys like that never have given me the time of day so I'm going to pretend that they disgust me and that I'm attracted to the scrawny geeks who are thirsty enough to fuck me"

[–]GuildedCasketNot RP, occasional circle jerk participant1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah, I've been in a committed relationship basically since I cared to date, so I have no reason to "settle". I just don't like muscle-y, jocky guys. Oh shit, some girls have different tastes than you expect. World turned upside down.

[–]17b29a9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

but he's not even that attractive

[–]awesomesalsaMr. Ogynist0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

IKR? Look how pointy those elbows are!

[–]SpaceWhiskey🍃 Social Justice Druid 🍂10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Woman here, I would not just let that guy walk into my house and fuck me.

[–]Lucy_Furrmeh[S] 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

he has some really unattractive arm tattoos

[–]TheTerrorSquadlab rat1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Inferiority complex much lol so many of your comments are about the perfect asthetics, you literally ooze inferiority with your balding "dark skin" trope

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