Help me understand selfishness

DaThrowaway808 · 2017-12-04T23:56:43+00:00

I think you're confusing "selfishness" with neuroticism

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-12-04T23:53:59+00:00

It would seem to me that you would have no peace of mind if you amassed resources at the expense of others.

you understand the enormous quantity of assumptions and biases that went into the construction of this sentence, and the complete lack of regard for like economics and stuff

NalkaNalka · 2017-12-05T00:38:36+00:00

Doesn't matter how you made your wealth. Someone is always going to want to take it. Frequently those those that have more than you.

There is no such thing as a just world or karma.

Oh and FYI the people that get robbed the most are the poor.

figthief · 2017-12-05T05:49:17+00:00

TRP often aims to address much more mild forms of behavior and the unnecessary guilt or shame that can follow. For example, some men who can be manipulated by women who treat them badly but have mental health issues or threaten self harm. Or believe embellishing their accomplishments and social status in order to seduce women for the short term is bad. Such men can benefit from learning they are not obligated to people this way.

I agree that they jerk each other off about Machiavellian and shit and it's clear these people are way too neurotic to come anywhere close to that. Many are covert narcissists that are maybe trying to live something closer to their big man fantasies in the real world, but few are actually dangerous. You're acting like TRP is telling them to start a scam business or something.

Maikowski2 · 2017-12-05T02:27:48+00:00

Selfishness has the bad rep in human history despite it being the driving force of humanity. Anything people do is because of selfishness. You want to share or not, that's another matter. People like to share despite being selfish. People do not like being stolen from.

Doesn't matter from whom you are securing your resources since essentially anybody trying to claim having better right than you are the real thieves and assholes there. Not those who want to secure their own or their children's future. Some people got it all backwards and imagine everybody else as an asshole and themselves as an exception. All the time. Despite reality which disagree with it.

Trp cheers it because it is rarely talked about. Sadly.

Dubslav_von_Chekem · 2017-12-05T01:14:13+00:00

First of all, it feels fucking great. My life is awesome and I sleep like a baby.

But hear I go.

Imagine there is a prize that is to be awarded to you or someone close to you, like a friend or family member. Would you want to get it even if you took it from someone more deserving? How about equally deserving? Less deserving? People have different desert criterion, but most would be willing to accept a prize that was their due. The amount of compensating desert needed to make you accept or not accept the prize is a measure of how selfish you are.

While women may claim to love the selfless, this is generally understood as the magnamity of a great and great-souled man, who stoops down to help the weak. Someone who is perfectly selfless would never claim anything, even his due. This is the province of saints and monks, who take only what they need to live. Redpill helps men realize that they really ought to take at least that which is their due, and encourages some to take more. Someone who is selfless rather than selfish puts others first. They are a doormat and often exploited. Healthy people are usually neutral or leaning selfish (few people would sacrifice their family for the lives of somewhat more deserving strangers).

You can't make genuine friendships if your friend thinks you'll throw yourself in front of a car for a stranger, and possibly take them with you.

passepar2t · 2017-12-05T00:55:12+00:00

How is selfishness equivalent to no peace of mind? Everyone worries about securing resources. Like, for their families or allies. Securing resources for just yourself is easier. How does it reduce your freedom? Worrying about everyone else's well-being is harder than just worrying about your own.

Also, TRP bangs on about selfishness because a) they revere successful sociopath archetypes and b)ecause they had to come to TRP to learn to stop being wimpy and more selfishly assertive.

caesarfecit · 2017-12-05T07:40:57+00:00

Selfishness does not automatically imply exploiting others.

If pursuing one's rational self-interest meant that, then human civilization would have never gotten off the ground and human beings cooperating in any meaningful way would not only be impossible, it'd also be a sick lie.

Hey that kind of reminds me of something....

Okay I'm done beating up on OP. She has a point in so far as the immature dark triad worshippers go but those guys are fools. True alphas don't crave power for the sake of power and don't get off on being a bully. That's for little men who build their egos off of how other people react to them.

oneprettycoolcat · 2017-12-05T00:35:08+00:00

You never get to have peace of mind, whether you are selfish or not.

People will try to fuck you over all the time no matter how you treat them, so you might as well look out for yourself first since that is what everyone else is doing.

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EchoZeroEleven · 2017-12-05T00:56:49+00:00

Replace "selfishness" with "Be yourself",

And you'll begin to have an idea of how they use that word.

fiat_lux_ · 2017-12-05T01:00:37+00:00

You sound neurotic and unsure of yourself.

I am going to appear selfish to people who don’t know me, but that has more to do with high ego and trust in myself. What’s good for me is good for people I care about.

Perhaps you just aren’t seeing that side of people. It’s not always about overt selfishness. It just appears that way to you because you have trouble understanding other people. That woman who is stingy about money could just have a family to take care of. She still “desires human relationships”.

MoodyAres · 2017-12-05T01:08:34+00:00

You seem to be taking a concept (selfishness) and taking it to it's most ridiculous and extreme position, a position which no one, not TRPers, not even objectivists advocate for. This is what autists do.

darla10 · 2017-12-05T01:34:50+00:00

getting along vs getting ahead. It's the human condition. deal with it.

drok007 · 2017-12-05T01:35:34+00:00

Selfishness is a pretty simple concept. I do what I want, and everyone else can go fuck themselves. I have had sex with a lot of women where incels have had none, I do not feel bad about it. Everytime I stole an incels girlfriend, I did not worry about securing her. Every time MegaChad walks by I do not worry about protecting myself. No freedom is limited, just the opposite. I am mindful, because I'm not a retard, and people look out for me anyway. It is still easy to make and maintain genuine friendships, it's probably easier to be honest.

AlanHalworth · 2017-12-05T03:15:24+00:00

My sense is that unselfishness emerges in various ways, such as (1) mutual need (two parents need to raise children together and have to get along; a military squadron has to survive together in a war), (2) repeated interactions so that if you screw over your partner you are losing access to what would have been a long-term relationship, (3) religious belief - the idea that you will be rewarded for unselfish actions, (4) legal consequences of your actions.

Modern dating prior to marriage somehow seems to evade all of these points. (1) It is undertaken for hedonic purposes (pleasure) and not to produce children or any other material benefit, (2) people don't expect to get married, especially RP people; in some cases only casual sex is expected, (3) religion is suffering pretty severely, (4) there are no laws about how you treat your sexual partner, as long as you don't physically abuse them. So I think this is where it is coming from.

I think if you meet people through a network of friends, it can help because then you have a motivation to stay on good terms with mutual friends.

For myself, personally, I could not handle a relationship based on selfishness, and so I have to at least try to be unselfish, if only out of self-interest. :)

newName543456 · 2017-12-05T10:52:07+00:00

Big flaw in above is you're trying to control how OTHERS act when you can only control how you act.

You have to

protect yourself from the bigger predators

anyway, whether you're generally selfish or not.

This would require you to always be mindful and not to make any mistakes because no one will be looking out for you

Other people either do that or not. It's not directly in your control.

I can't imagine it's easy to make and maintain genuine friendships built on trust.

You have to adjust your expectations of others accordingly.

a_mans_perspective · 2017-12-05T00:07:14+00:00

http://ncase.me/trust/

You should try this, its a beginners level explanation of game theory, why a balance of selfishness/generosity is ideal and how different circumstances affect that balance

The ideal approach in most scenarios is to be generous to strangers until they prove themselves untrustworthy and then be selfish back, until/unless they stop. Selfishness is a good response at times. It can also be the best overall strategy in situations (like fast serial dating) where you dont care about long term benefits of cooperation and just want to cycle through a bunch of victims.

EsauTheRed · 2017-12-05T02:21:02+00:00

I do think a large part of being a man is about giving, giving back, etc., look at all the effort that must be expended in order to satiate your desires. Of course one should be judicious in their giving

Anyone who thinks otherwise is likely acting

At least if you want to be a socially integrated man, which (at least at the top level) is a more powerful man than the RP non-conformist types TBQH

Title	Help me understand selfishness
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	2
Comments	69
Date	December 4, 2017 11:50 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7hlkf6/help_me_understand_selfishness/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/help-me-understand-selfishness.264595 https://theredarchive.com/post/264595

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