It shouldn't be anyone's responsibility to maintain their partner's standard of cleanliness unless there has been an equivalent exchange

RevolutionaryEye5320 · 2023-01-21T05:59:50+00:00

What complicates this in practice is that cleanliness often bleeds over into health. More dust = more respiratory blockage and contaminants= weakened immune system = more likely to get sick. Sloppy dishwashing= bacteria on the dining ware = more likely to get sick. More sick = more likely to die. And even worse, as with many things, the one who puts in more effort will carry the team on their back. And this applies in small ways to almost everything.

The lower-standard person doesn't need to receive something in return for meeting better standards because those better standards the higher-standard person brings automatically are in and of themselves a reward already, it just depends on whether the lower-standard person appreciates it.

I'm ace and aro but I live with my best friend. They've got higher standards than me in cleaning, decorating and health among many others and I'm trying to improve whenever I can. They don't specifically do something extra for me because I'm already benefitting from a higher standard of living and health than I would have ever have had alone, and they're already doing more than me by default because they inherently care more.

If anything it's on me to give what I can, where I can as compensation.

Novadina · 2023-01-21T06:59:32+00:00

I dunno, when my husband has higher standards for things I just do them to his standard because it makes him more comfortable and I love him. We’re not counting pennies over here, we both do plenty of things to accommodate the other in order to live peacefully together. We’d have to keep incredible track of every action to know if it was perfectly tit for tat and we were equally sacrificing to another’s preference or something.

EulenWatcher · 2023-01-21T05:18:37+00:00

Both partners are supposed to care for each other without turning it into “what you did for me for you to ask this thing”, which can be hard if you’ve already hit the point where you start feeling like you do more and get less and get resentful.

I’m in the opposite side of the conflict here - I’m a woman with lower cleanness standards than my husband’s, which seems to be pretty unusual. I don’t find his requests unreasonable though and I don’t find putting half the efforts to keep out place as clean as he wants to see it that hard to argue about it. In the end, I want him to feel comfortable at home and have enough free time.

14ers4days · 2023-01-21T05:13:41+00:00

I guess I don't understand. When I am alone I let things slide but when I'm with another person I would be embarrassed if I or my home were dirty. I don't expect anyone to rise to my standard. I expect people to have self-respect and be clean.

Safinated · 2023-01-21T07:18:58+00:00

We should agree on the standard. For sex, cleanliness, support, whatever. There can be trades and compromises

And if we don’t and can’t, we are incompatible, and the relationship should end, as it will cause unhappiness

It really is not difficult to do this if you care. If you don’t care, it is difficult

Cloud-8394 · 2023-01-21T07:36:46+00:00

This isn't something so transactional, it's a compatibility problem. I believe it's perfectly fair to communicate to your partner that their lack of hygiene is an issue for you, and even to declare that it may be a dealbreaker. Then the ball is in their court. If the relationship is worth having to pick up your dirty socks and dust your cheeto crumbs off your desk once in a while, then they should stay, if not, go. It's really that simple.

This gets all messed up though, of course, because why consider the issue of compatibility or make an attempt at communication when you can simply see things they don't agree with as problems and say to themselves "hah, I'll fix them" then proceed to brow beat their partner until the relationship implodes.

TheRedPillRipper · 2023-01-21T10:32:18+00:00

completely unreasonable

No, it’s quite reasonable. One partner already is in the habit, of maintaining a higher standard. It benefits not only one, but both parties. To rise to that level. You’re already compatible enough, to maintain a minimum level of cleanliness. The only direction from there, is up.

Godspeed and good luck!

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-01-21T07:58:59+00:00

I think it depends on the standards themselves to a large extent. Your partner wants the house vacuumed every day and everything to look picture perfect at all times? That's pretty unrealistic, so sit down and talk about where you can meet halfway. If your relationship is good you should be able to talk to them about things that are an issue. Clearly it bothers them and their anger/annoyance about it annoys you, so nobody is happy.

If the standard is ''do the dishes and laundry once in a while'' or ''don't leave your dirty socks lying around the whole place'', then that is a pretty reasonable standard and you should put effort into not living like a slob. I don't mind being messy and just leaving dishes in the sink for a bit. However, that's all fine and dandy as long as I'm not living with somebody else. My slobbishness is fine to me and it's a dick more to inflict in on other people. Living alone is one thing but when you're living with another person you have to be considerate of their needs as well. Nobody died from doing laundry a bit more often or from putting their stuff away.

Demanding someone rise to your standard for nothing makes you a toxic asshole.

But it's not ''for nothing''. It's for the comfort of both you and your partner. Again, if the standards are absurdly high, talk about it and figure something out. But ''I'll only do this thing if you do this thing of equal value/importance for me'' is not a great way to have a relationship. What if your partner already does things to your liking and there isn't anything you can think of that they could do? You're not even going to consider what they asked for just because you don't want anything? Keeping score never ends well.

Early-Christmas-4742 · 2023-01-21T08:51:22+00:00

Cleanliness is another important compatibility to screen for before getting into a relationship.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-01-21T12:17:00+00:00

I think that, more often than not, those who don't want to work on cleaning are pretending (perhaps also to themselves) that their standards are a lot lower than they ate in order to feel less guilty. If you still expect the work to be done, it's not your partner's standards causing the problem. (I often see this in cases where the cleaning partner leaves for a while and the other one starts complaining about how the work they "didn't care about" isn't being done - or even start doing it themselves!)

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2023-01-21T05:40:06+00:00

equivalent exchange

They did it. They finally did it. They came up with the inverse to “choreplay.” If ~~he’s~~ she’s not ~~doing the dishes~~ fucking me he she can’t expect me to ~~fuck him~~ do the dishes.

Alt-acct123 · 2023-01-21T05:51:18+00:00

I agree to some extent. There’s got to be some baseline though. You aren’t respecting yourself or your SO by living in filth.

MistyMaisel · 2023-01-21T14:58:09+00:00

Eh, I think loving someone means trying to either do stuff the way they like it or finding a compromise that you both are happy with, right? Like, I know I'm the less tidy person. I'm just built more chaotic, I suppose. But, I want him happy and comfortable in our space. So I'll do my best to do better every day. Now, he shouldn't be a tyrant about it and constantly making me feel bad for not immediately meeting whatever his standard is, cuz obviously it isn't natural to me. But so long as we are both trying and doing our best, eventually it will become natural to me. And that's nice. That's good to be able to love your partner and display love in both of these ways.

anon-sucks · 2023-01-21T16:16:01+00:00

If you are in a healthy relationship, you talk about these things and negotiate a standard. Odds are both of you won’t be thrilled, but that how adults deal with problems.

throwawayx1221x · 2023-01-21T22:32:17+00:00

What your describing simply sounds like a compatibility thing to me. What is a deal breaker for some, is a non-issue for others. Relationships are also not transactional. Like I don't expect my BF cook for me since I clean for him. I clean for him because I like to do, and it makes me happy that it makes him happy. Doing things for your partner because you want to should be the reason you do something for them. But again, it all depends on compatibility, and that compatibility is determined by what each person considers to be a deal breaker or not.

BusinessGarage2606 · 2023-01-21T09:07:12+00:00

Sure.

It also works with sex. If a woman wants to have less sex, she shouldn't have to have it more often just because her partner has bigger libido.

RGL137 · 2023-01-21T08:06:03+00:00

If men aren’t happy, it’s men’s problem. If women aren’t happy, it’s men’s problem.

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RocinanteCoffee · 2023-01-21T15:31:58+00:00

It's up to the couple to agree and be compatible in what their standard is and they should agree to a standard of what their requirements are for regular household appearance and sanitation as well as what they agree needs to be completed before a guest comes over...before they move in together or share a space long-term.

But bare minimum for anyone involved should be maintaining a sanitation standard that prevents disease and pests (so in particular anything food or garbage or bodily-fluid related.

Even if your place is cluttered it's the crumbs, spills, dishes that aren't clean should not be left long. Any handling of raw meat needs to immediately have disinfecting after. The bathroom needs to be regularly disinfected especially surfaces you touch, commode, door handles, sink handles.

And if you're throwing a party the following week, you both need to be realistic about how much time per day needs to be spent preparing for it whether it's laundering couch pillows, cleaning baseboards, wiping down and setting dining room table, vacuuming. So one person isn't left running around at the last minute trying to get it done.

But again the couple should be agreeing to the standard for things like this as well as everyday cleanliness before they move in together. And once they move in they should hold up their end of the bargain but be flexible if one has to work a bunch of hours one week or one is recovering from COVID the next.

ChadChasingB · 2023-01-21T15:57:43+00:00

Too often in this sub and elsewhere I see people who view cleanliness as if their partner not meeting their expectations is fucking up, or that they deserve an award for doing the dishes, doing the laundry, folding the clothes more than their partner when they are simply pushing their higher standards onto someone who loves them for nothing and then blaming them for not stepping up.

They are not compatible.

Title	It shouldn't be anyone's responsibility to maintain their partner's standard of cleanliness unless there has been an equivalent exchange
Author	Immediate-Impact-215
Upvotes	1
Comments	50
Date	January 21, 2023 4:57 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/10hj3u1/it_shouldnt_be_anyones_responsibility_to_maintain/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/it-shouldnt-be-anyones-responsibility-to-maintain.1149524 https://theredarchive.com/post/1149524

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