Q4M, why do you think "submissive" has such a negative connotation to women in the west?

KirthWGersen · 2023-04-14T05:51:54+00:00

I think it is because when some people say submissive, they mean "she does whatever I order", while others mean "she doesn't act like a complete bitch".

It is good to agreeable but assertive: it makes relationships go a whole lot smoother. But simply obeying whatever the other party orders: that is bad for both parties. It puts too much pressure on the one doing the ordering, while losing the insight the other party can provide; and it can lead to horribly abusive outcomes.

mustbepurged · 2023-04-14T05:50:58+00:00

Probably cultural implications around the word “submit” and “submissive” because wives were expected to be like this before 2nd and 3rd wave feminism and by becoming “submissive” as a woman and to submit is to figuratively give up your rights and make you lesser than a man? That’s my guess.

gate18 · 2023-04-15T01:33:54+00:00

The west enjoys a level of prosperity where everyone can safely try and live the way they want. The mentality of the past still lives on (people like Andrew Tate, whilst hist GFs do not do what he says, he does talk of how great the patriarchy is)

In a free society where you can, and you are encouraged, to make your own was, being submissive is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Imagine: 12-17 y/o you are told to word hard at school, do extra activities...., 17-25 (say) you are encouraged to go to university get a career.

Leaving all that to get back in a box and be submissive to a person that (a) you don't need, and (b) can't be smarter or stronger than you †. Why?

† Note: yes, men are stronger, but no woman needs that extra strength. If you need to move house he can't move the couch on his own, and you can just call people.

The idea of being submissive is a generational thing. I know women that are submissive but they are so purely because of cultural reasons and not for any practical/logical/natural reasons.

Even children in the West (and I bet in affluent families in another part of the world) aren't submissive. And, a wife is not at all a child but an absolute equal - unless you start talking hypotheticals.

Jambi1913 · 2023-04-14T06:34:21+00:00

Most women in the West idealise a more equal partnership - “submissive” implies the other partner will be “dominant” and clearly these have rather unequal connotations. I think it is also often associated with sexual dynamics - and a woman might be quite happy to be more submissive in the bedroom, but doesn’t want to be submissive in all aspects of her life. The term may also get sort of caught up with the sexual submissive connotations of being obedient, worshipful, and even being degraded and objectified, etc?

Personally, I’m someone who is more likely to compromise to avoid conflict, I value harmony and am more of a people pleaser who enjoys making others feel comfortable and looked after. I’m happy to defer to someone who has clearly more experience or knowledge than I do, or is sometimes simply more invested in the outcome than I am (this is very context dependent obviously). I would call myself cooperative, agreeable and easygoing - but I still don’t really want to be called “submissive” - to me that is too much at the extreme end of things and I don’t really need to have that label. I don’t see “dominance” as an overall positive label either - again, it’s extreme.

AllTooHuman65 · 2023-04-16T05:22:50+00:00

I'm amazed no one is saying this:

Most of the time in the West, the terms submit/submission/submissive are used to mean "yielding to authority". To imply hierarchy of some sort where one party is higher than or has power over the party who submits.

The fundamental question is why it's so "natural" or "ideal" that a man is an authority that his wife/partner should "submit to". On what grounds? Many households are dual income so it's not like she conceivably "owes" him for providing for her. Arguments that men are innately smarter or more rational or better decision makers are demonstrably false. So what makes a male an innate authority?

Boxisteph · 2023-04-18T17:36:05+00:00

Because men in the west abused submissive women so much they protested for their freedom. Girls grew up seeing it and mothers and aunts and grandmothers raised girls to not be in the same position.

harmonica2 · 2023-04-14T05:31:41+00:00

When guys say they want a submissive woman, what do they mean by submissive or in what context are they meaning though?

Thekurdishprince · 2023-04-15T14:58:47+00:00

The government and corporations are their masters. They are submissive to them since they replaced you the man.

That is why she is mad when you talk about being submissive to a man. It is as if she will betraying her masters.

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Anti_Thing · 2023-04-15T19:25:00+00:00

Westerners in general tend to be afraid/skeptical of authority, or at least they like to think of themselves that way.

Scarce12 · 2023-04-14T16:40:09+00:00

Because western women have been pumped and dumped by guys they were submissive toward (alpha men), whereas non-western women haven't.

Although all this is changing rapidly in non-western countries.

philosopherberzerer · 2023-04-14T18:41:24+00:00

There's many scenarios to describe the differences between submission and forced subservience. One is I take the power the other is you give me the power. It might link from a problem with authority idk.

Khabeni412 · 2023-04-15T17:29:12+00:00

Do you mean women being submissive or men being submissive? Either way, it has its positives and negatives. We shouldn't be too submissive to the point that we are treated poorly. But sometimes, we need to let the man or woman make their own decisions that affect them. For example, if there is a major financial decision, the party that makes the most money should decide. If there's a decision involving any children, the party with the most parental care should decide. Other decisions should be decided together. Sometimes, being submissive is good because it allows a better decision by whomever has more knowledge of the situation. Gender in this case, doesn't matter. I always let my ex-wife, for example, make decisions involving our children (with some input) because they live with her. But she "allows" my input.

LingonberryGood3915 · 2023-04-17T20:23:33+00:00

because its a word that the woke propaganda media machine demonized on purpose to make women uncooperative and destructive.

Title	Q4M, why do you think "submissive" has such a negative connotation to women in the west?
Author	Windmill_flowers
Upvotes	13
Comments	41
Date	April 13, 2023 2:06 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/12kqfeq/q4m_why_do_you_think_submissive_has_such_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4m-why-do-you-think-submissive-has-such-a.1214323 https://theredarchive.com/post/1214323

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