We need to structure society around an assumption that men cannot be expected to exhibit impeccable sexual repression at the workplace in all situations at all times.

notworthmuch20xx · 2017-12-01T15:49:16+00:00

Men can be expected to be sterile at work, it is very easy, most manage it

wtknight · 2017-12-01T15:10:26+00:00

I don't understand why we need to structure society around this assumption. There are other things men are capable of (like violence against other people) that we already structure society around not being able to happen. If you commit physical assault against someone, you can be punished. Why should it be any different with sexual harassment?

ivegotsomequestions0 · 2017-12-01T15:04:26+00:00

No one expects "perfect sexual sterility" of men at work. Most places are fine with you asking out a coworker, as long as it's not your direct subordinate. The line exists somewhere in between that and repeatedly telling multiple employees your explicit sexual fantasies about them (Charlie Rose).

I disagree that men can't, by and large, figure out where the line is. Most men are socially skilled enough to know, and to err on the side of caution when there's gray area. And no, it's not unduly burdensome, any more than all the other self-policing that both men and women have to do at work.

storffish · 2017-12-01T13:54:42+00:00

I was raised by women, so I've gotten the odd insight into how they think and none of them think men are going to repress themselves at work or ever. that'd be a laughable concept to them. they go home and laugh about guys who can't help themselves. most of them do domestic work so maybe maids get it worse than others, I can't say. but there's definitely no shock or dismay when a man attempts something sexual. as long as he's not threatening it's just funny and a little pathetic to them.

more than anything, I think it's well-behaved men who are "shocked and dismayed" at the work perverts more than women. I assume a lot of women, if they're not gross, have probably encountered it at some point on some level. knowing what I know, though, I'd definitely advise other men not to try to seduce their co-workers or hired help unless you want to be the butt of their jokes after hours. maybe some women think it's hot when their coworker drops trou but I can't imagine there are very many.

it's your dignity at stake when you get an inkling that you should try to shit where you eat more than anything. women are vicious especially among themselves, don't poke that bear. I can't for the life of me imagine what goes through a guys head that makes him think "yeah, she'll get soaked if I tell her her ass won't quit at the copier." she's probably going to be too lazy to report it to HR but every one of her friends will know as soon as they check their phones.

cuittler · 2017-12-01T13:14:46+00:00

Automod is on break, non-CMV replies go here.

Electra_Cute · 2017-12-01T13:30:14+00:00

Who is “we”?

says_harsh_things · 2017-12-01T14:38:17+00:00

I can't say I understand it. I say sexual things at work all the time and everyone loves it. The girls at work say dirtier things than I do.

I think theres something else at play thats not being adequately conveyed.

Plopolok · 2017-12-02T04:50:37+00:00

It's not just at work. Catcalling, for example. Things as they are now are fine, I guess: women can wear skirts, men should not be vulgar, it's mostly a matter of everyone being reasonable. But I'm a bit worried by the theoretical trend that women are allowed to dress as they want, and men are not allowed to express any reaction because they're supposed to control whatever is in their brain. It's just not a very nice attitude towards men. It's like forbidding poor people to beg: it might be the most efficient and rational thing to do, but I just don't like it. And like with begging, the line defining what's reprehensible isn't clear and straight. Between shouting "shake that ass, bitch" to a stranger and saying "you look lovely in this dress" to a friend, there is an infinity of nuanced situations. Men are supposed to stay sterile in some and to isolate and escalate with confidence and dominance in others. Managing this is not entirely innate, there has to be some tolerance for experiments and mistakes.

despisedlove2 · 2017-12-02T12:37:18+00:00

Have you already forgotten the Ghomeshi case?

I wouldn't be surprised if half of these accused abusers were actually innocent.

abaxeron · 2017-12-02T20:57:34+00:00

No, we need to structure society around an assumption that when women show similar behavior, they should be subjected to similar shaming and similar punishment.

After a couple women like Germaine Greer end up being found naked and decapitated in a ditch, the problem will evaporate within a couple months, and society at large will agree that it is wrong to witch-hunt a person for the words that they might have said according to an anonymous tweet.

_ahnomatopia_ · 2017-12-02T21:06:11+00:00

I do not believe that these men had any ill intent, I believe that like most other men, they genuinely thought there was something there and that they didn't mean to hurt anyone.

This may be true of some cases, but it generally doesn't check out. Charlie Rose invited employees to his house or hotel. Of course they can't comfortably say no. Of course that isn't consent to be flashed or groped. Either he knows that and is doing it anyway, or he doesn't have a shred of empathy. Either is unacceptable.

What we're learning from this flood is allegations is that -- shocker -- a lot of men will take advantage of women when they think they can get away with it.

It seems like much fewer women share this predilection, but I don't buy that this is nature not nurture.

I can say with fair certainty is that men cannot be expected to be perfectly sexually sterile at work.

Then they aren't fit for employment.

(Except that they are, because your assertion is bullshit.)

DB605 · 2017-12-02T22:00:46+00:00

First and foremost, you have to dissect each individual situation. Many of these "sexual harassment" allegations are just women crying "ME TOOO!!" for otherwise consensual or...shall I say "not NOT consensual" behavior.

If a guy whips out his dick in his own trailer and you just sit there, you weren't sexually harassed. He's kind of a weirdo, but you were not sexually harassed. Most of the allegations end up reading in this fashion.

The only ones I've heard so far that were real crimes was Kevin Spacey. So I'm not necessarily trying to change your view (I agree with your premise) but I think you're answering a question no one should actually be asking.

Title	We need to structure society around an assumption that men cannot be expected to exhibit impeccable sexual repression at the workplace in all situations at all times.
Author	SoberMisanthrope
Upvotes	3
Comments	79
Date	December 1, 2017 4:18 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7gsinj/we_need_to_structure_society_around_an_assumption/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/we-need-to-structure-society-around-an-assumption.264645 https://theredarchive.com/post/264645

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