What does PPD think about the difference in treatment that female teachers get for under age sex crimes as compared to male teachers?

ClarityofDisaster · 2017-02-24T10:13:25+00:00

It's because male sexuality is almost always portrayed as constantly in the ON position and easy to satisfy, whereas female sexuality is portrayed as being something typically OFF unless a complicated series of actions is performed (seduction) or it is forcefully taken from her (rape). This is untrue in both cases.

Also, the thing that people, especially men, don't understand is that a fantasy of banging a hot teacher is very different than being forced into sex when you don't want it. Life is different than imagination, and some boys and girls do not want to have sex with an authority figure, no matter how attractive they are.

I had a 16 year old friend in high school who was raped by one of his female teachers after class. He ended up not telling the cops or his parents about it, because he didn't want to go through all the court proceedings and questions, but he told me about it in confidence. He was crying as he told me how humiliated he felt because of his automatic erection, how scared he was of hurting her by fighting back at all, and how angry he was that his first time was ripped away from his control. He had some minor gynophobia after that and, like me, began to experience a fear of skin-on-skin contact. He didn't date at all through high school and struggled greatly with his sexuality, as he felt betrayed by his body for reacting as it did. I absolutely hated that cunt for using my friend as she did, putting him through that mental turmoil just so she could get herself off. Whether it was for sex or just validation, doesn't matter...she was a rapist, and of a minor to boot.

OfSpock · 2017-02-24T09:22:10+00:00

Myself and my female friends were all appalled at Mary Kay Letourneau. Thirteen year olds are only a step up from babies (my nephew was 13 at the time).

We had the same experience as you, it was all men who thought it was cool and a 13 yo was a man.

I'd say a large part of the sentencing discrepancy is the large number of males judges. Personally I'd throw the book at them.

ManSentHisOwnWay · 2017-02-24T09:45:39+00:00

I think the less angry and disgusted response towards female teacher/male student relations is more related to toxic masculinity (sex is always good and a sign of success for men/men can't get raped) than it is benevolent sexism. As for my own feelings, on the one hand I don't think we should immediately jump towards characterizing sex between teachers and students as rape in the full sense of the word. It shouldn't be illegal of course but the victim should get the priority in characterizing what happened to him or her. This goes regardless of the gender of the victim.

On the other hand, I've got a younger brother who just turned 18 and is in his final year of high school. If a teacher, even one in her mid-twenties, slept with my younger brother I'd be pretty outraged and disgusted. That shit just does not seem right to me at all. And that's with him being of age. I cannot imagine an adult with authority sleeping with what are functionally children aged 12-17 and that not being thoroughly fucked up.

I think the reason you'd be automatically appalled by a male teacher sleeping with a female student is because you've got paternalistic feelings towards young women and have a hard time granting them agency and their own sexuality. At the same time, the reason you have such a hard time thinking you or any other male could feel like a victim when taken advantage of by a female teacher is because your memories of your own childhood are clouded by your ideas about masculinity.

I think the best response in cases like this, regardless of the gender of either the teacher or the student, is to always assume some form of advantage was taken but to take care not to force trauma onto the victim that might not be there.

GinSmokeLies · 2017-02-24T15:14:35+00:00

This is one of those topics that gets my blood pressure up but here I go anyway.

Here's the thing. You don't even have to look at this from the perspective of whether the kid "feels" like a victim or not. A lot of female students who have affairs with teachers don't feel like victims either. Hell, a girl my brother went to school with was fucking their English teacher all through high school, and now she's married to him and, by all accounts, they seem to be happy. I'm sure she didn't/doesn't feel like a victim.

It's still wrong for a teacher to fuck a student.

I don't care if they have written consent from the kid and their parents. It's still a HUGE violation of professional ethics and it undermines the legitimacy of the entire profession every time one of these dumbasses does it.

As a teacher you have a responsibility not only to that student, but to his or her parents, to his or her peers, to the entire school community and to your fellow teachers. When you shit where you eat, even if everything's consensual and blah blah blah, you are whittling away at the structure of the way a school is supposed to operate.

Even if the kid is okay with it, and even on the off chance the kids' parents are okay with it, how are other students going to feel? Other parents? Other teachers? Don't tell me "it doesn't matter, it's between the two of them" because that's NOT HOW TEACHING WORKS. You have a responsibility to do right by the ENTIRE community you serve. Parents have a right to send their kids to school without worrying about whether their teachers are more concerned with fucking them than teaching them. The other teachers in your school have a right to the respect of their students, and I don't care how "mature" you all think high schoolers supposedly are, when they find out a teacher fucked a student that affects how they view EVERY authority figure in that school. It's hard enough these days for teachers to maintain the respect of their students, there's no reason to make it more difficult for yourself and every other teacher in your school.

If you find yourself attracted to teenagers to the point where you would seriously consider fucking one, don't be a teacher, do one of the millions of other jobs that's available to you. If you find that you are really in "twuuuu wuuuuv" with one of your students then it shouldn't be a big deal to wait a couple years until they're no longer your student and THEN start fucking them. If you can't do that, walk down to your principal's office and tender your resignation, then fuck that kid to your heart's content (provided they're over the age of consent in your area; that's a separate issue.) There is no excuse, at all, ever, for a teacher to have sex with a student. Period.

And here's where I get judgmental, so sorry in advance. When I was teaching high school my students were KIDS to me. Even the most mature, worldly ones had moments of immaturity and childishness. I think any grown adult who can work with teenagers all day and seriously think about fucking one has a mental illness. (No, I'm not saying they're pedophiles so please don't accuse me of such.) If you can work in a high school and see those kids as anything other than the babies they are there's something wrong with you.

I teach adults now. Some of my students are older than I am. I would STILL never dream of sleeping with one of my students because it would be so, so inappropriate and such a huge violation of my ethics and my responsibilities toward the community I serve.

As far as I'm concerned, any teacher who does this, no matter how consensual the relationship, no matter the gender, deserves to have their license permanently revoked and their life ruined. They deserve every ounce of punishment they get and then some.

Unabummer80 · 2017-02-24T10:04:51+00:00

It could be because female sexuality is way more highly valued and protected than male. A teenage male's sexuality is not worth much, so people care little when it is taken advantage of. A teenage female's is worth a heck of a lot, so people get angry when they deem it to have been taken advantage of.

Funny part is that it seems to be the straight men like me who see it as less of an issue because in my mind if I were 16 and banging my hot female mentor I'd be elated and would not feel like a victim in any way shape or form.

You say that, but you dont know exactly what it would be like. There could be manipulation involved and it isnt really making a good model for authority in the future. I remember one UK case in which the teacher was plying her students with drink and drugs and sleeping with them. If you were the parent here, youd be enraged about this and doubly so that they can get away with a slap on the wrist. They're being let down by people who are supposed to be looking out for their well-being, how will that play in the future?

Furthermore, the girls are always made out to be victims, when in reality maturity is a bit more fluid than age limits. How often are we told that girls mature faster than boys, and yet we have situations like this??

Another good question is why males in prison are the most at risk group for rape in society, and yet there has been little to no outcry over it? Males arent worth much, it seems.

midnightvulpine · 2017-02-24T11:20:12+00:00

You can think that you, at 16, would feel that way. But you're dong that with an adult's mind and point of view. You can't put yourself back into a 16 year old mind to figure out if you really would have been harmed by this or not.

The issue with children and adults when it comes to sexual relationships is that children generally don't have the context to make decisions as well as someone who is older. This can vary from child to child, but the point of age of consent is to play averages in where a good cut off point is to limit the chance that a young person will be taken advantage of by someone with more knowledge, more wisdom and more resources.

You can always try and make the argument that X or Y kid is more mature, but ultimately that shouldn't factor in my opinion. Because that's a broad assumption and you can never tell how it can effect a young mind. It's not a game I'd prefer to play with someone's future. Regrets are something I'd rather not see someone carry from such a young age.

I don't know what the Feminist line is on this, but I'd assume most are against preferential treatment. But that does nothing to effect my view that those who violate age of consent should be dealt with accordingly. The law is the law. Consideration for mitigating factors can be brought into it, but generally gender isn't something I consider that when it comes to being more lenient when appropriate for lesser crimes and such.

GridReXX · 2017-02-24T10:51:29+00:00

It's not the student.

It's the fact that the perp is a man. People seem to think men and their penises are defilers and ruiners.

Ask how many men would be "elated" if they learned their fourteen year old son was being being fucked by his gym teacher.

I'm sure they're not thinking "yay!"

rulenumber303 · 2017-02-24T14:11:22+00:00

I think I'd like to see a proper statistical analysis, peer reviewed and everything, before I'd go drawing conclusions about whether women get significantly shorter sentences than men for this. We see crime through the filters that the media elects to apply to it, and the media elects to apply those filters in large part to make profit off entertaining people not to further the truth.

That said, a girl is more likely to catch diseases if her male sexual partner has them than a boy is likely to catch diseases if his female sexual partner has them, so there is that. And the chances of the average creepy 30 year old male teacher physically overpowering the average 15 year old female student is greater than if their genders were reversed so there's an extra possible facet of potential intimidation and control to the course of their relationship. BUT the girl can have an abortion if she gets pregnant and the boy is stuck with being a father if the teacher gets pregnant and doesn't want to abort. So whatever. They are both awful situations resulting from adult depravity.

Eastuss · 2017-02-24T09:31:36+00:00

People are biased to think that men are necessarily raping and manipulating people into sex. That's why. The mechanical way sex works doesn't help, some psychologist describe the penetrated individual as masochist.

IamTheWalkingMenu · 2017-02-24T12:34:52+00:00

Are they treated differently. I just did a Google search and i turned up several women teachers who went to jail for it.

says_harsh_things · 2017-02-24T14:07:48+00:00

I used to be one of those guys that thought "i wish i had that opportunity at 16". Then someone mentioned STDs.

How would you feel if some chick who had herpes couldnt get with anyone her age because they all knew, so went after you and got you infected at 16?

Totally changed my outlook on the issue.

I dont think a 16 year old guy will be traumatized by the sexual experience, but hes still vulnerable to be put at risk of ruining his life by older people that would exploit that. I have a huge problem with that.

cholomite · 2017-02-24T14:30:46+00:00

Older male teachers prey on weakness. They target and seduce insecure young girls and play on their emotional vulnerabilities. These male teachers aren't fucking the popular cheerleader with rich parents, or the class president. They are preying on the poor girl, or the girl with no friends. They target and go after weakness.

Female teachers allow themselves to be seduced by power. They are not adding the captain of the chess club or the AV club on Facebook and sending him racy pics. They are adding the captain of the football team, or the popular party guy who already has a bevy of female admirers. This is the "power" that these male students have that makes these female teachers attracted to them.

If you actually read some of the conversations that the female teachers have with the male students, they often take on a younger tone, going into baby talk and playing a submissive role to the male student.

The male teachers talk in a mature and manipulative way, exploiting the weaknesses of their target female students and pressuring them into engaging in sexual acts with them.

That's why, in my opinion, a female teacher is not as "evil" as a male teacher who sleeps with a student. I'm sure there are cases of female teachers preying on weakness, and male teachers being seduced by popular and secure girls, but that's generally not the case.

lollygagyo · 2017-02-24T17:01:15+00:00

It is fuuuucked uppppp are my thoughts.

And yes, it does seem to be mostly straight men who see it as a non-issue. And I feel like it's because they have no imagination and can only understand the situation as a 'fantasy'.

I have friends who were taken advantage of by older women in positions of power in their teens. It fucked them up. They were victims.

prodigy2throw · 2017-02-24T13:09:29+00:00

I'm okay with it

Ohmysweetpajamas · 2017-02-25T02:26:00+00:00

I don't care what sex they are. It's gross and reprehensible no matter what.

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IIHotelYorba · 2017-02-24T12:24:08+00:00

Benevolent sexism is just a euphemism for favorable bias. Or to borrow feminist language, female privilege. Never let them tell you it's some sort of oppression. It's oppression in the same way royals "have" to live in castles and have obligations of some sort.

exit_sandman · 2017-02-24T12:34:34+00:00

Similar treatment.

While men are more likely to take advantage of an authority position in order to get sex from subordinates or wards, and women are more likely to experience trauma from being on the receiving end of such a treatment; there is one thing that makes me look less fondly at the woman, even if her fuckery was 100% consensual: her mental state. A man who wants to have sex with minors and acts on that desire is a sexual predator. A woman who wants to have sex with a minor on the other hand is a nutjob; and neither of these two should be a teacher.

despisedlove2 · 2017-02-24T20:26:03+00:00

It is a massive violation of trust, and conflict of interest, regardless of the genders involved.

However, I would like to confess that I don't see female teachers having affairs with male students to be more problematic than the moral issues above imply. The reverse doesn't register the same way, just as you said. It is probably social conditioning.

silverrosemary · 2017-02-25T08:35:51+00:00

I think sex crimes of all kinds are inexcusable, and our society's refusal to acknowledge this results in male rape victims being discredited.

The thing is, I care about those victims. Does RP? Because they only bring it up to discredit feminism. If RP cares, they should do something about it instead of just using it as another weapon, because speaking as someone who advocates for these men, this behavior only serves to further isolate them. You either care about them and so should actually advocate for male victims of rape, or you don't and should stop using them as weapons.

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