Divorce on the table?

Rifleshoot · 2020-10-19T18:57:38+00:00

You’ve got a good salary and your stats look good. To me, that says there is likely a failure in leadership and a weak personal frame. You say she is blaming you for not liking her and only tolerating you. Is that true? Do you not love your wife? If it’s true, then you’ve got to find your own personal love for her and love her as Christ loves the church.

If that is false, then you simply don’t need to engage with her. If you are doing what you ought to do as as a husband, then simply keep doing those things and don’t let her words dissuade you.

Women have an extremely hard time thinking clearly when they are emotional. Let me give you an example: Currently, my wife and I are trying to have a baby. We’ve been trying for a few months now and my wife is getting impatient and anxious about fertility. She’s made a few snide comments here and there, wanting me to take supplements, change my diet, blah blah blah. And I do that stuff if it makes sense. We were trying in bed yesterday, and I decided to move her into a different position, and it hurt her. She then bursted into tears and was so upset because I had hurt her. I was at fault in that, so I gave a quick apology, but for women, it’s not that simple. When they are upset, or feeling any other strong emotion, it can take over their entire outlook on life. So once I had gotten her into that mood, she was crying and accusing me of not loving her, not wanting to make a baby, not doing my part to make the baby, blaming her for not getting pregnant sooner, blah blah blah. I sat there and listened to let her say her piece, I told her why she was wrong, she tried lashing out at me couple of more times and I simply told her I’m not going to tolerate her accusing me of things that are blatantly not true and I put my clothes on, went into the kitchen and started cleaning. It took her maybe 15 minutes alone to shift her attitude and let her emotions sort themselves out. She came back out acting very timid, like she was worried I would yell at her or be angry. I simply carried on with my task with a slight smile, because I wasn’t angry. I understand women are dominated by emotion and it takes a little time for them to move from emotion to emotion. Once she realized that I wasn’t going to berate her or make her feel anything bad, she became happy and completely normal again. We had sex later that evening after church group.

The point I’m trying to make, is that your wife is unhappy. That doesn’t mean that you need to make efforts to try and please her at your own expense, it simply means that you need to leave room for her to be happy. You are the “oak”, people in MRP and RPC like to say. That means that you are not changed by her emotions. If you are doing what you know that you should be doing, then don’t let her emotions rock you. If you aren’t doing what you are supposed to be doing, then start.

Deep_Strength · 2020-10-19T22:33:02+00:00

Come on man it's been 3 days since your previous post.

As other people have said, you are going Rambo. These things take time. 8 years will take at least several months up to a year or longer. Even if you're making big changes you don't have to be overt with them all the time.

The biggest way Jesus modeled is to lead by example. You don't necessarily need to be talking much, but showing with your actions you're going to lead the marriage and care about her.

but rather she felt as though I was cold, cordial, and unlike myself.

Unlike yourself, sure. But make your actions need to be colored with the fruit of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Kindness even while being firm goes a long way with women.

Remember,

Fitness tests = "You are so mean / distant / cold / etc"
Comfort tests = "I feel like uncomfortable / worried / sad / scared / etc because... "

There's likely been some times where she has come to you for comfort about feeling a certain way and you responded with "don't care" words or actions. That's one of the reasons why husbands will come off cold when making changes.

A spouse that truly believes that divorce is on the table for non-Biblical reasons shakes the foundations that we both should strongly believe in.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Emotional reactions often trigger the worst in people or can be used as a manipulation tactic. Most of the time they're a manipulation tactic, so not responding to the threats is the best option.

If you want to have a sit down, this is the way I would do it. Sit her down, hold her hand, and look her in the eye.

"I've been making changes in myself because I am not the man I believe God wants me to be. I haven't stepped up as the leader of the marriage or put God first in everything. I understand that some of these changes may feel uncomfortable, but I still care about you and want to be married to you."

editing this in which I forgot yesterday:

You determine your mood around her because that's between you and your relationship with God. She doesn't determine your mood with her emotions or actions. That's the absolute wrong frame. You can pull her out of her bad mood with this leading by example many times

For instance, the disciples in Acts are singing and praising God after they got beaten and put in prison. Why? Because they have the Holy Spirit working in them, and that led to an opportunity to witness to everyone who heard them.

TheChristianAlpha · 2020-10-19T19:40:05+00:00

one week into *RPC.....

Sounds like you may have gone a bit Rambo. Typically for every year you have been married it's going to take two or three months to get your marriage back to where there is a healthy dynamic. Also, look at her actions not necessarily her words. If she is saying things like divorce, but is acting otherwise than keeping attention to what she does and listen to what she says with a grain of salt.

redwall92 · 2020-10-19T18:24:08+00:00

TL/DR version....

Been RP for a whole week. My wife and I talked ...

End of post.

Dude ... if you've read anything here you would know that any post stating "I've been here a whole week and WOW things are changing .... " is basically a version of the SAME THING that's been spewed many times over.

You've posted in the past few days about how much she sucks from your mood when you're around her. You've got work to do, and that work is in the sidebar.

Stop worrying about what SHE does or SHE says. Either she'll divorce you or she won't .... You do you, man. Read the sidebar.

redarcher99 · 2020-10-19T20:42:14+00:00

Negotiation and logic don't cause sexual desire in a women. Attractiveness does. If you'd read the sidebar you'd know that. In fact talking about how bad your marriage is with your wife and trying to negotiate for a better sex life communicates with her that you lack confidence, don't understand her and are uncertain. This just makes her feel bad and associate those bad feelings with you. And feelings are how women primarily see the world.

Your stats look OK but you really gotta do a lot of reading. You're 1 week in. It sounds like whatever you changed wasn't really a positive for her and to be honest it takes a lot more than 1 week - try 1 year. Did you shut up so much that you gave your wife the silent treatment? Why do you think your wife is so unhappy (hint: it's not because she's given up on marriage, it's because of the way you currently are)? How are you going at confidently leading yourself and her, providing for her, being a fun guy, looking after her and doing fun things with her (so that she associates positive good feelings with you).

Your post is all about your wife. It lacks enough detail to know exactly what you did this time but has enough information to show that it's not just how you have behaved in a few situations but a pattern that's there and at the core of who you are.

Also, don't look at what she says, look at what she does. You are so far in your wife's frame that the title of your post tells us you think because she said it that it's happening. Unless she serves you with divorce it's just a threat and possibly a test to see how you'll respond. Don't try to fix it with logic, or by negotiating with her, fix it by fixing you. The fact she is so willing to disagree with you about divorce shows that she is unhappy and doesn't respect you. Don't think a week is going to fix that. It'll take longer to get the right mental frame and for her to build trust and see that it's not just a phase but you have changed into an attractive, confident man who is outcome independent.

I doubt a counsellor will help you as:

most don't understand the red pill
red pill truths aren't politically correct therefore don't get mentioned at counselling
counsellors tend to want to rationalise everything which as I've said doesn't cause desire.

There is nothing in your mission about your marriage or raising your child to follow Jesus (although Augustine gets two mentions). I think you need to rethink that at least to have something in there about improving your marriage. Are you so focused on God, Augustine and youth group that you're neglecting your first ministry to love and disciple your wife?

You posted here 3 days ago and 4 days ago. Some great guys gave you some great advice and rather than go away and spend your time reading the sidebar, you keep posting here daily. Are you looking for validation? Are you not prepared to do the reading you need to do? Are you looking for quick and shortcuts rather than the long hard work? Are you looking for us to hold your hand and take you through every day of your life? I'm sorry but I think I can see why your wife is finding you annoying. I'd suggest instead of spending time writing these posts and doubting yourself, use the time to do some reading, learning and putting it into practice. I'd also suggest posting weekly in OYS unless it's an emergency or you've done the reading and have questions.

plausiblepistachio · 2020-10-20T03:30:30+00:00

I want to say that my wife has used the divorce threat so many times on my journey to being more red pill in the Christian sense. I have learned that words for women are coming from a place of fear in a lot of ways. She’s afraid to be unhappy. She is afraid you’re going to stop loving her. In a way, what she says has to do with her state of mind than what you are doing. You becoming more red pill is new and a change is always scary sometimes for people. So she’s expressing her fear in words. So don’t pay a lot of attention to her words. Pay attention to her actions. Actually, it’s a clear sign you’re new to CRP because her words are still causing you to worry. They are making you question whether you and your wide have similar values. Remember, focus on your own values and strengthen them and she will follow. Doesn’t really matter too much what she says. I’m not saying don’t listen to her, always listen, but think of ways to make her feel loved while focusing on your goals as a husband. All the best brother!

SierraNevadaRider · 2020-10-19T18:39:24+00:00

I've lived the past 8 or so years with the understanding that if an asexual marriage/existence is part of my cross, then that is my cross.

Since you seem to be primarily asking about divorce in this post, here's my hot take: The Bible knows nothing of a sex-deprived "marriage" which I put in quotes because "sex-deprived marriage" is an oxymoron, Biblically speaking. Look at Ex. 21:11 where even a slave wife could be granted divorce if her husband took another woman and diminished (not eliminated, but even so much as "diminished") her food, clothing and sexual rights. If even a slave wife (who had just about the fewest rights of any person in ancient Israel) could be granted divorce for sexual deprivation, now much more so the rest of us?

A spouse that sexually withholds is not a faithful spouse. Allow me to cite Martin Luther:

The third case for divorce is that in which one of the parties deprives and avoids the other, refusing to fulfil the conjugal duty or to live with the other person. For example, one finds many a stubborn wife like that who will not give in, and who cares not a whit whether her husband falls into the sin of unchastity ten times over. Here it is time for the husband to say, "If you will not, another will; the maid will come if the wife will not." Only first the husband should admonish and warn his wife two or three times, and let the situation be known to others so that her stubbornness becomes a matter of common knowledge and is rebuked before the congregation. If she still refuses, get rid of her; take an Esther and let Vashti go, as King Ahasuerus did [Esther 1:1 :17].

Here you should be guided by the words of St. Paul, I Corinthians 7 [:4-5], "The husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does; likewise the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does. Do not deprive each other, except by agreement," etc. Notice that St. Paul forbids either party to deprive the other, for by the marriage vow each submits his body to the other in conjugal duty. When one resists the other and refuses the conjugal duty she is robbing the other of the body she had bestowed upon him. This is really contrary to marriage, and dissolves the marriage. For this reason the civil government must compel the wife, or put her to death. If the government fails to act, the husband must reason that his wife has been stolen away and slain by robbers; he must seek another. We would certainly have to accept it if someone's life were taken from him. Why then should we not also accept it if a wife steals herself away from her husband, or is stolen away by others?

-- Martin Luther, "The Estate of Marriage" (1522)

Cloudy_Pirate · 2020-10-19T20:23:11+00:00

Taking the last few remaining pieces that she would contribute to: laundry, childcare, and finances

What is her role then? Taking over everything isn't leading and it isn't being the Captain. You need to give her a job and encouragement as First Officer. The masculine grows through challenge, but the feminine grows through praise. Lead and encourage her into the woman that you desire she becomes.

But honestly, what is the real question here? It looks like you just wrote this to whine to internet strangers that your wife is threatening divorce for "non-biblical" reasons. Is your frame so weak that you this rocks your world? She is a postpartum woman with a new born. Of course she is emotional. Learn to roll with it. Learn to lead.

If you want real advice, post in the OYS threads.

Willow-girl · 2020-10-20T13:46:23+00:00

Your post is so vague that I can't tell which of you doesn't want to have sex with the other.

CarelessBowler5 · 2020-10-19T18:24:04+00:00

We need to start asking a pretty important, basic question: When's the last time you used pornography or masturbated on your own?

mwggw · 2020-10-19T19:14:28+00:00

If you get divorced you've failed. On many levels- you've failed God, you've failed your kids, and you've impacted your qualification to lead in your church. Part of your mission depends on not getting divorced. Your foundation is built on a covenant before God which is independent of how your wife feels.

Start by getting that into your head, then go pray, read scripture (Read the sidebar scriptures under "Core Principles" daily) , and seek Godly men for counsel. It's not going to be easy and it might get worse before it gets better, but if you are faithful to God and faithful to yourself and your wife, Lord willing you will see fruit. But being shaken by her unhappiness to the point of considering divorce isn't going to help- you may have to hold the marriage and family together by sheer will but so be it. You will be better off and you will have honored the Lord if you remain strong even if she is begging to leave.

Title	Divorce on the table?
Author	msaluta86
Upvotes	21
Comments	51
Date	October 19, 2020 6:16 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RPChristians
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/je75o3/divorce_on_the_table/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/divorce-on-the-table.1194293 https://theredarchive.com/post/1194293

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