"not sure" really means "yes"

NPIF · 2015-02-26T21:58:27+00:00

You know what you did wrong. First step towards improvement is acknowledging your own shortcomings. Good on you for that.

I just want to weigh in here because I feel we catch a lot of flak in this sub as being supporters of rape, and we all know this couldn't be further from the truth.

For anyone who might try and twist what OP is saying to suggest that TRP is endorsing forcing yourself on women, that is NOT the message being conveyed.

What OP is suggesting (and quite rightly so) is that you do not need to, or should you, DIRECTLY ask for consent when you are about to have sex. This is a mood killer and anyone who claims otherwise has clearly never had sex.

You obtain consent non verbally, through escalation and by reading the signals your partner is giving off. If she's ripping off her/your clothes? That's consent. Is your dick in her mouth? Consent. Is she asking if you have a condom? Consent, and go get that condom cause you're about to get some.

So this is clear: if she ever says No, Stop, I can't, or ANYTHING along those lines, your correct move is NOT to pressure her. That's when it turns into a gray area and even if she has sex with you, some might consider that non consensual. Instead, freeze her out. Say "ok, no problem", and resume a platonic interaction. No kissing, no touching, no sex. Turn the tv on. Go get some food. Just stop the sexual interaction entirely.

If her "no" or "I can't" is her Anti slut defence kicking in as LMR, the freeze out will drive her crazy and she'll re-initiate the sexual encounter. If it's a legitimate objection and she genuinely does not consent to sex, guess what - you just dodged a potential rape accusation.

It's a fine line to walk, but this is the safest and most effective set of rules I've encountered to avoid any post-coitus accusations or shit-storms.

wantonton · 2015-02-26T21:41:27+00:00

Not too long ago I watched a TED type talk with a professor out in CA. She was one of the original feminists from the 60's. She was very smart and a psychologist. Her specialty was studying cognitive dissonance.

While it was not the main topic of her discussion, she actually spent quite some time on this very phenomenon. She said that as a dyed-in-the-wool feminist it infuriated her.

She said over the past several decades she's had tens of thousands, if not more than a hundred thousand, college students on the west coast fill out detailed surveys which seek to collect data on the cognitive processes of the students, their lifestyles/choices and any correlations between the two. Sexual choices and communication has long been a big part of the study.

She found that in excess of 95%, if I recall correctly, certainly more than 90%, of men understood that "no" means no and that they do not have permission to engage in any further sexually activity and that they then conduct themselves accordingly. However, and this is what infuriated her, she said not less than 1/3 and perhaps as many as 1/2 of all women, used "no" as a social status preservation mechanism. In other words, they said "no" to sex for some reason other than to indicate "no," such as to preserve her "good girl image" and expected the men they were with to understand this and act accordingly. If the men could not navigate this...well, you saw what happened.

She also very clearly stated she saw a trend emerging whereby girls used this phenomenon to gain control and social leverage. She said "no," he "understood" what she meant,and sex happens. But, she then makes a power play on him to lock him into whatever social relationship she wants if he doesn't want one and when/if he resists, or if she ascertained his status incorrectly and finds out she's taken a hit to her's by being with him, she plays the assault card based on the unequivocal and undeniable fact that she said "no" and he heard. It is now up to him to explain, that while, yes, she did say "no" you know that "no" doesn't really always mean "no." "Right?" In this way she is able to undertake action that would otherwise be too risky, such as making a play for a high valued male, but avoid any risk by being able to claim victim status if she fails and suffers any "loss" from having made the play.

babydocnorman · 2015-02-26T23:37:27+00:00

The words uttered by OP's girl were part of a dialogue between her pussy and hamster. Problem is many of us can only hear the hamster.

Pussy: "I'm lubed up and ready to go. Let's get that dick in here now!"

Hamster: "But he'll think I'm a slut. I've been hurt before, blah, blah."

Pussy: "Fuck that. He keeps asking if he can stick it in. Let him!"

Hamster: "But I just can't. I'm a good girl. I gotta come up with an excuse. Shit, can't think of anything. Oh yeah ... I forgot to shave my legs?!"

There's s valuable lesson in this. Tune out the hamster and learn to listen to the pussy.

Mysogyny · 2015-02-27T00:51:18+00:00

"I forgot to shave my legs!"
"That's okay. I like it rough."

tombreck2 · 2015-02-26T20:46:41+00:00

I ask her if she wants to fuck

You know better that

I've been hurt in the past

"I'm a slut"

I ask: "So, then let's fuck?!

That's pretty cringeworthy and surely killed whatever moisture she had accumulated.

The point is that you said these things and killed her tingles; next time just don't say anything.

4_YRT · 2015-02-26T22:00:53+00:00

PSA--

If you ask a girl if she wants to fuck, and she says, "I'm not sure." By the love of God Do not have sex with her. She might be shit testing you, but unless she admits to it under oath, you're still looking at a rape trial. Now, you might trust her not to accuse you of rape. But what happens when she tells her best friend about it, or her sister, or her white knight ex boyfriend? Are you willing to let a woman's emotional state determine your future and freedom. It's just not worth it. No pussy is worth your freedom.

BTW-- I'm a criminal defense lawyer and I have two rules: 1) You pay in full up front and 2) Do not let a woman put you in jail.

HumbleEngineer · 2015-02-26T22:00:04+00:00

Never ask, always assume. Take charge, and take the risk. Of course, if she says no, it's a no. Go cold, if she wants to fuck she will fuck.

You acknowledged your mistakes, that's a beginning.

IllimitableMan · 2015-02-26T20:47:09+00:00

Next time: "So, then let's fuck?!" should be: "I'm gonna fuck you until you pass out on my cock." Then she'll say dumb shit like "are you really?" and then you choke the bitch.. and.. you get the idea.

You weren't assertive enough. The bitch doesn't wanna be the GPS guiding your dick inside her. Reading this topic I get the impression you wrote this down more for you than for the sub, as in, you're kinda fucked off with yourself that you missed out on this. Oh well. Nevermind. We live and learn. What I'd do now is go out and be seen with other chicks who know her so it gets back to her. Don't text her or anything. You can probably make her jelly from afar if you have shared social connects. If not, time to get on Tinder because this girl thinks you're a bitch and wants you to orbit her like one of Jupiter's moons.

abbw2000 · 2015-02-27T02:14:10+00:00

"she takes the initiative. Rides me and plays with my pants. Confused, I ask: "So, then let's fuck?!" She says "I'm not sure. I didn't shave my legs." I fear that if I initiate sex, she'll leave and end our reationship"

Please don't take offense to it, but I cringed while reading this. Must be a sign that I'm thoroughly red pill, haha

secret_barber · 2015-02-26T20:56:17+00:00

she's in my bed for the first time. We cuddle, kiss, grind each other with clothes on, turn each other on. I ask her if she wants to fuck.

Damn it, son! Don't ever ask if you are going to fuck. Women talk. Men do. Like she said, if you hadn't talked, you could've gotten laid.

She said she loves me and don't wants to ruin it with sex so soon. Yet she told me how she fucked a guy at a party just one day before we first met.

Yea. You just smile, nod your head and stick your tongue down this slut's throat.

filthycreep · 2015-02-27T00:36:57+00:00

It so weird to read this shit because you all have this terminology and all these generalized ideas about genders, but when I read it, I just see two young people clumsily trying to figure out romantic relationships.

dashing_nash · 2015-02-26T23:30:34+00:00

Man!! I never ask a girl if she wants to fuck.. I always play with her body, kiss her, nibble her neck, lick her nipples, slap and squeeze her butt, ya know.. Get the furnace nice and hot.. then I ask.. "So.. should I put on a condom now" somehow it just cuts out the bullshit..

If a girl says to me.. She ain't sure.. I didn't stoke that fire long enough. If you've gamed her well and your foreplay is good she'll be the one asking for the D'.

TheeRyanGrey · 2015-02-27T01:24:19+00:00

Let me make this simple:

she wanted you to make the decision that way she doesn't feel like a slut, she can say you made me, you did it. It allows her to remove herself from all responsibility for her actions.

Women don't want to lead and the ones who do aren't very appealing. Take charge my dude.

pl231 · 2015-02-27T02:57:49+00:00

I don't get why you went all beta with the whole "wanna fuck" stuff ,especially if you knew she fucked a dude at a party right before you met.

NotQuiteRedPill · 2015-02-27T16:09:28+00:00

Truth. Women have weird meanings for things.

"He's just a friend." == "I'm fucking him."
"I know you and I just met, but I think I love you." == "I'm still fucking my friend until I know what's up with us."
"Would you be opposed to a no-sexual relationship until we got to know each other better?" == "I'm going to feel you out as a person and a provider while I continue to feel his cock inside me."

I had a girl once profess her love to me, yet admit she was stl fucking her friend (that won't commit to her). The term "hamstering" really does describe the thought process.

Mysogyny · 2015-02-27T00:46:38+00:00

Your first paragraph had me checking to make sure I wasn't reading the blue pill.

Don't ask verbally. Really, it just ruins the mood and actively invites a "no". If she doesn't want to, it's not going to happen (and you have to be cool with that at the time, even if you plan on never seeing her again), but that doesn't mean you need to beta up and ask.

midnightyeti · 2015-02-27T00:51:23+00:00

One thing's for sure, you're going to learn a lot from that experience.

Drenmar · 2015-02-27T13:03:21+00:00

This made me cringe because it reminds me too much of my teenage self. Props for immediately learning from your mistake, it took me several years.

johnhello · 2015-02-27T15:23:50+00:00

should of just done it, oh well. :)

MattyAnon · 2015-02-27T16:27:54+00:00

"No" means "No... not right this second".

Obviously best not to ask. Definitely take things slowly (esp. first time) until she's good and ready. Don't talk about any of this stuff (you'll be talking to Ms Hamster). Make sure she is joining in! And she is doing stuff! Sure, women won't initiate the first anything, but if they can't take the ball and run with it a bit, something's not right.

If it's LMR all the way, she's not going to feel good about it in the morning. Instead push/pull... tease... forwards/backwards.... freeze out... vary it up a bit. or a lot. Don't push to the point where she might feel there is a rape accusation later.

Much better is that she's joining in... maybe she's suddenly reluctant... that's fine, you go back to doing other stuff or freeze her out for a bit... you start again.... she's doing stuff, you're doing stuff, you're taking it in turns a bit... it's exciting and fun. It's you pushing the boundaries, then backing off, then you're at those boundaries together and it's you pushing the next bit. It's fun and you keep pushing but you're indifferent to the outcome.

OP: you missed out a LOT of stages, probably to try to resolve the sexual tension. Instead take it in small steps. You go through stages must faster if you do lots of little steps. Verbalising your intention is fine if you're good/confident. Asking her to commit to sex and skipping out 15 delicious steps is not good.

Women will forgive escalating too fast, but not escalating too slow. You're supposed to be a man for goodness sakes. OP: you really need to stop expecting to be able to honestly communicate their intentions. You find out what they want by escalating. Ignore their words (apart from "no", obv.)

There is no "she says no and you ignore that". There is no verbal insistence on sex either. Forwards/backwards and variation will take care of all of this once you get your head round it. And if it doesn't work out with this one girl - that's fine too.

Do not worry about threatening the relationship by trying to have sex, if you want sex in your relationship. You can jeopardise friendships like this, but not sexual relationships. I've been very sexually forward and there has never been any downside for me. The only results have been that the girl really digs it and we get more sexual instantly, or the girl really digs it and we get more sexual a bit later, or the girl isn't into it and I learn that she's not someone I want to invest a lot more time into.

Title	"not sure" really means "yes"
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	37
Comments	43
Date	February 26, 2015 8:35 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2x9ssy/not_sure_really_means_yes/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/not-sure-really-means-yes.29600 https://theredarchive.com/post/29600

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