The Uncanny Valley between Alpha and Beta M

SwagYoloJesus · 2015-05-06T10:12:44+00:00

Anecdotal evidence here.

Went out on a coffee date with a Tinder girl, positive vibes all around, being my best, k-close, what have you. Next morning I randomly run into her and her BFF on the street. I was SO not prepared for that encounter that I didn't even know how to formulate basic words. Needless to say, her pussy drying up could have been heard miles away. Next text I get an hour or so later was along the lines of "yeah, I just realized we have different interests, let's not meet again."

If you're someone just trying to act alpha, you'll have a hard time keeping that facade up all the time. Do some self-improvement instead that will make you feel good about yourself. She'll get a glimpse behind that tryhard alpha mask sooner or later anyway, then it's game over. I know it sounds like a good idea because it's easy, but it's not sustainable.

Being a non-natural alpha is a byproduct of you feeling all kinds of good about yourself. Don't force it, don't pretend it.

NeoreactionSafe · 2015-05-06T13:14:17+00:00

Depth of Truth.

The Alpha knows Truth deeply in his soul. He honestly doesn't doubt his convictions which are in contradiction with everything he sees around him.

The Beta who is attempting to gain the benefits of being Alpha is doing it initially because he wants the rewards of having higher value.

The MGTOW is a good middle zone. He's no longer a Beta because he is for the moment disinterested in the Rat Race. He lives a simple life and does not experience neediness.

As the MGTOW gets comfortable in his autonomy he starts to see the potential to acquire Power. It's Power that gets him climbing the Natural Hierarchy where he Charms those above him and Loves those below him. He may begin Spinning Plates. The 48 Laws of Power apply here.

At some point the Plate Spinner must decide his future.

Does he go the route of absolute alienation from his DNA (and tribe) and become the Infertile Alpha seeking the dopamine addiction of abundant sex?

Or does he now arrive at the Red Pill LTR who seeks to start a family in the best way he is able despite the miserable conditions? (while avoiding Marriage 2.0)

...that's the way we grow up here.

DRMMR76 · 2015-05-06T12:36:42+00:00

First, good programming reference.

Second, I've seen this play out in my own life and came to a similar conclusion. It happened when I started trying to put TRP game concepts into play with women without improving in the looks department. There are many classic and effective lines an Alpha can use on a women to draw her interest, defeat shit tests, show off amused mastery, etc. But if the woman has already pegged you as a Beta, many of them will actually revolt her.

Take the simple phrase "give me your number". Uttered by an alpha to a dripping wet girl in a club, or even online from a man with good looks or indicators or wealth, and the girl will likely just give it no questions asked. Uttered by fat slob, even if he says it standing up straight and confidently, she will call him a creep.

And remember, "creepy" is anything an unattractive man does that would be charming, daring, witty, funny, or sexy when an attractive man does it.

HeinousFu_kery · 2015-05-06T14:31:43+00:00

Here's the zen thing about it - the essence of Alpha is not pretending. Even if you aren't the Perfect Bro, you'll do fine so long as you're comfortable in your own skin. You'll do great if you have a sense of humor about yourself.

The harder you try to fake it, the more fake it looks and the worse you'll do. Doesn't matter if you're after pussy or a paycheck.

You should be on a continuous path of self-improvement instead of putting a fake personality together because you don't think you're perfect right now - that's a path to disaster.

Sure, there are a few very visible fakes who actually get somewhere in all arenas, but because of selection bias we often believe that this is the rule rather than the exception.

Be yourself. Be a better self tomorrow. Never quit. Don't submit.

Anon_Dutch · 2015-05-06T17:24:01+00:00

Interesting analogy, seems plausible, but I doubt it. The Uncanny Valley principle has been studied and proven. The suggestion that the same appies to women's perception of alpha and beta men has not been studied let alone proven. To the contrary, many fieldreports indicate that women immediately react positively to newly initiated alpha behavior by previously beta guys (some reports on MRP discuss a transition period, but many more posts report surprisingly positive results at the first application of TRP). While far from a scientific study, the field reports indicate that the suggested analogy is wrong. Being alpha is not an all or nothing undertaking, an alpha personality can be developed over time, and you can enjoy success in the interim while you "fake it till you make it."

TL:DR field reports indicate that the suggested analogy is wrong. Women are more attracted to a beta with some alpha qualities than a beta with none. Continue faking it till you make it.

MattyAnon · 2015-05-06T15:14:43+00:00

Agree with OP.

The old PUA stuff used to call shit testing "Congruency testing". If you aren't congruent (ie consistently alpha) then you are incongruent and that can be worse than being outright beta.

If you're in this uncanny valley, society (girls, white knights) give you a massive push back to betadom. Social pressure, disapproval, hate, shaming, mockery - they apply it all.

Have very much experienced the valley for myself as I started improving, but I see it for the crabs-in-a-bucket that it is.

johnnycaustic · 2015-05-07T08:13:37+00:00

You're mistaken. You're close to the truth, and you're absolutely right to highlight congruency. But no, there is no uncanny valley between alpha and beta.

Instead, there are many different alpha traits, and these alpha traits are not binary. They're more like volume knobs, which you can turn up and down. If they are all set at the same volume, there is no uncanny; a man can be half-alpha, and everybody will accept him for his medium-high place in the sociosexual hierarchy. If they are set at way different volumes, then he is uncanny--in other words, incongruent--and women will shit test him to death to try to sort out his real status (as some of the posters here describe).

It may seem pedantic for me to make this distinction, but I think it's a really important distinction for guys who are trying to climb the hierarchy. If you want to rise--especially in a long-term relationship--you've got to slowly increase all the volume knobs, all at the same rate. If you turn some of the knobs up while leaving the others low, girls will freak out.

Some guys in this discussion have pointed out that they've gotten instant results from alpha behaviors. I completely believe them, especially in short-term encounters. It takes some time for a woman (or man) to get to know you well enough to spot incongruencies. But to sustain real gains in the long term, you've got to turn up all the alpha trait volume knobs, not just a few.

What are these alpha traits, you ask? I present you some of the most brilliant posts on relationship game I've ever read:

https://hvren.wordpress.com/2010/06/24/to-whatever-self-be-true/ https://hvren.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/to-whatever-self-be-true-part-2/ https://hvren.wordpress.com/2010/07/11/to-whatever-self-be-true-part-3-the-formula/

I invite guys to rate themselves on the alpha traits, see which ones you're behind on, and try to get those aligned with the others.

[deleted] · 2015-05-06T15:20:08+00:00

People are unbelievably sharp at picking up mental discomfort and absolutely despise it. You'll get more respect being a genuine douchebag than a fake nice person.

This in my opinion is the underlying concept behind frame. If you aren't genuine, you will give that away by not sticking to your guns and backing down to cover for your hidden insecurities and agendas.

Authority8 · 2015-05-06T18:49:20+00:00

Great post! It makes me think of some of the guys who I have met who memorize the lines from 'pick up artists' and regurgitate these lines, stories, lies, to women. Afterward I might ask a woman what she thinks of the guy, and it might be because I load my question or suggest it first, but they always say something was 'off' or 'weird' about him and they didn't like him. Depending on how attractive physically the guy was, they might even go as far as to call him a creep.

RedHeimdall · 2015-05-07T08:45:26+00:00

Yes, they don't want you to change, they don't want you to get "above your station." And they don't want to perceive that someone is "faking it."

I definitely disagree with some of the posters here saying that once you start making an alpha transition, you start getting positive reactions across the board right away. Not in my experience at all.

If a girl has had you squarely pegged as her safe little beta orbiter and you start showing some backbone, looking for things to be a two-way street, most likely that chick is going to disappear from your life, not suddenly start fucking you......

Now in the grand scheme of things this is fine, because it's better to have no girl in your life than to be her little bitch. And it is a possibility that you might run into that chick again at some point in the future once you are further into your alpha-hood and maybe then you might get a positive reaction from her. Doesn't matter either way.

Either way, yes, you should do everything you can to leave being a beta behind. And if that means torching some "relationships," so be it. It will be worth it in the end. BUT, I would advise guys to expect negative reactions from people during the transition period -- not just other guys, but girls as well, which is OP's point.

REDPILLRECKONING · 2015-05-06T13:52:17+00:00

This is actually a gem of a post. I've experienced this many times throughout my life.

garlicextract · 2015-05-06T18:15:23+00:00

It's not a programming concept. It's a digital design concept.

Futdashukup · 2015-05-06T18:33:45+00:00

A good way to BE Alpha is to DO Alpha. Join a boxing/MMA/Thai club and eventually fight as an amateur. Bullshiters are born, not made, so all that time you spend on strategizing with TRP acronyms coming out your ears would be better spent ACHIEVING.

oldredder · 2015-05-07T04:18:56+00:00

Close but too absolutist to be accurate. Truly if a man shows "enough beta traits" in body or mind he will not be a convincing alpha but it could take 2-3 total fuckups to really make people question it. Vice-versa a man posing as beta but giving too much resistance to leadership, to woman's bullshit, too able to seek independent strategy and convince others to do the same, will become immediately obvious as alpha-in-beta's clothing, up to something.

Probably insurrection :)

-Quotidian · 2015-05-07T07:28:59+00:00

We are constantly projecting shit that other people pick up--unconsciously on both ends--and this is where the tripping happens. Julian Treasure quoted a friend who defined authenticity as "standing in your own truth."

I can recognize falseness and insecurity perfectly within twenty seconds of a person opening their mouth. The first five I often rule out, just in case there are other factors at play, but after ten it's easy to monitor pitch, body language, and eye movement without that clutter.

Present yourself as you are, can be, or will become. Play to your strengths and keep growing.

betabux · 2015-05-07T12:45:13+00:00

Man, now this explains everything.

BlackHeart89 · 2015-05-07T19:33:29+00:00

This is somewhat true. I look like a nice guy. And seem nice to newcomers.

But once I start talking to people 1 on 1, they realize what I really am. Men respect it and women seem to shit test it or run away.

If not for the fact that I look like I lift, I'd probably only attract those looking for BB.

moveon4ever · 2015-05-10T20:18:05+00:00

Buuut, what can I do who Is faking majority of his life, back to what now, do what?

Wigston · 2015-05-06T16:26:41+00:00

I can confirm; this happens to me.

I'm fairly confident and stoic, but another of the more alpha guys in the circle I have recently joined is a natural alpha and is much taller than me. Despite my mostly alpha traits, this guy has no respect for me and is constantly throwing shit my way. Giving people shit is his way of ruling the circle and keeping his dominance, but even the mega-betas who hang out with us aren't picked on so badly.

Here's why:

*I used to dress quite flamboyantly (stripey cardigans, green trousers). Gets me picked on for looking like a fag.

*People say I have a 'posh' accent. Really I just like to pronounce words properly. I also have a relaxed way of speaking, and this AMOG I mentioned mocks me by doing a very slurred impression of my voice.

*I can seem quite feminine sometimes. Not the pussyfied kind, think of Robert Plant. I have longer hair than all of my buddies and keep a smooth face (good grooming). I also tend to sit and give a little smile at a good joke rather than jump around and hi-five everyone like the rest of the group.

Thought I'd share and give OP some more backing.

Edit: Formatting

Edit 2: Forgot to mention that we're teenagers, miming someone's voice and getting a good laugh out of it probably isn't as easy or common for older people.

throwaway1234374t2 · 2015-05-06T16:17:14+00:00

Perhaps this is why trying to have both k selecting and r selecting characteristics (trying to be both AF and BB) doesn't work out. This is possibly just an analogy to solidify the fact that female mating strategy is dual and not bi.

LeGrandDiableBlanc · 2015-05-06T16:41:50+00:00

This is a great post, and personally I'm starting to see congruence as my biggest problem.

It is especially hard for guys coming from an analytic background. The truth of the matter is that so much of our lives are filled with uncertainty. Any of us could get hit by a bus tomorrow, get cancer, or fall victim to someone else’s mistake. If Bubba shoots his rifle at the wrong angle, then Chad Thundercock may well end up getting accidentally shot in the squat rack.

It is extremely difficult to genuinely feel the sort of confidence necessary to maintain frame (congruence) all of the time. Given how fucked up and dangerous the world is, you might argue that anyone who has such confidence is delusional! As Charles Bukowski once wrote, “The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”

If you are unable to delude yourself, the solution has to be that any frame of confidence must legitimately come from the knowledge of prior success. The flip side is that failure directly destroys confidence for exactly the same reason, especially repeated failure. The recent post on learned helplessness comes to mind.

NicCageForPresident · 2015-05-06T18:11:53+00:00

I literally read the title, realized exactly what you meant, and thought "fuck yeah, this guy gets it".

This is why you see guys working on getting laid with minimal results and then suddenly seeing huge success. I think there's a point at which you have so much experience approaching that all visible traces of self-doubt are gone and that's when you really start to see results (talking about cold approach here).

EvigSoeger · 2015-05-06T19:37:25+00:00

If he speaks with confidence without possessing a masculine appearance, his congruency will be endlessly tested.

This statement is false, and I'm living proof of it.

CrazyHorseInvincible · 2015-05-07T19:47:13+00:00

I removed the first version of this for using examples from fiction.

This version is a pleasant surprise. Well done.

machimus · 2015-05-06T16:49:35+00:00

The "Uncanny Valley" you're talking about is the gray area when people can't easily decide what they're looking at when they see you. For women, this is the uncomfortable cognitive dissonance between filing you into her AF/BB bins, and for social groups this may result in a power struggle as the group tries to reshuffle into a more natural structure.

SexistFlyingPig · 2015-05-06T13:10:11+00:00

Embrace the failure and use it to build towards constant success.

monsieurhire2 · 2015-05-06T15:41:57+00:00

Yeah, I've been guilty of this before. This is a pretty good articulation of the issue. It's about an immature, undeveloped adolescent transitioning to manhood. For many of us, you have to fake it before you make it. Those of us who have strong male role models, which is very few, given that most of us were raised by a feminized school system while our fathers slaved away, made the transition easier.

One solution simplified: Don't give a shit. And that applies to "screwing up" socially, or appearing "vulnerable." Just don't care. Move on. If people are going to judge you over some stupid, arbitrary interaction that didn't sit well with them, fuck them. You don't have to hate them, but you just move on with your life.

O3EAN · 2015-05-07T11:09:29+00:00

Nice rip off of one of RSDTodd's latest videos...

The Uncanny Valley between Alpha and Beta M

Comments

The Nazi Party was founded in 1919. (almost 100 years ago)

Title	The Uncanny Valley between Alpha and Beta M
Author	LastRevision
Upvotes	129
Comments	110
Date	May 6, 2015 9:57 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/351jty/the_uncanny_valley_between_alpha_and_beta_m/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/the-uncanny-valley-between-alpha-and-beta-m.32250 https://theredarchive.com/post/32250