Overcoming Arguments

GargantuaBlarg29 · 2017-12-19T13:44:18+00:00

Some 'arguments' that used to become arguments because they hurt your ego, don't anymore beause you killed it.

Some 'arguments' that used to become arguments because you didn't just make a decision, don't anymore because you lead.

Some 'arguments' that used to become arguments because you didn't understand she was testing and flirting, don't anymore because you passed them, and are now fucking.

And as stacysmom said, some 'arguments' that used to become arguments because you cared what other people thought, don't anymore because you read WISNIFG and DGAF anymore.

Now I have some kind of semantic satiation where I can't tell if that's the way you spell argument anymore...but autocorrect isn't fixing it so fuck it, guess it's right.

SteelSharpensSteel · 2017-12-19T12:10:37+00:00

There's surprisingly a lot in your question, so I will break it down:

First of all, it's not about 'overcoming' arguments, but rather operating in your own frame. Many men come here and really need to start at dread 1 - aka stop operating in your wife's frame and start building your own frame.

Secondly, men and women communicate differently. Women communicate covertly, and men communicate overtly. I believe there are studies out there that show that women are more skilled at reading people and communicating within a group - of course, they are playing chess, while you are playing checkers. This plays into how shit tests are communicated.

Third, what is happening when you implement your MAP is that you are changing the rules (which is why so many of us, myself included, constantly say to not go Rambo). What happens when you change the rules? Well, she can't control you like she has, thus the arguments. Thus the need for your frame to be solid.

To answer your question, if someone is passing shit tests consistently, will they stop... the answer is no. I could bring in a great discussion on hypergamy, how women are wired, and the Rational Male, however let's just say that women are wired to shit test their men. I still get shit tests, and have gotten them throughout my marriage - I just now recognize them and handle them appropriately. But in reality, there is a range of shit tests. There's the mean, nasty shit tests, and then there's the fun, light shit tests. I have found that as I have improved, there are far more of the fun, light shit tests. I rarely these days see a mean, nasty shit test, mostly because I don't tolerate that shit. I would say the frequency has gone down, but I still get tested.

stacysmomlovesme · 2017-12-19T13:10:27+00:00

It's rare I even have arguments anymore.

Doesn't mean I am not open to information and cant change my mind.

It means I have no need for others to see my point of view or to give me approvals for my actions.

See the difference?

cholomite · 2017-12-19T13:51:56+00:00

It's not really about passing enough shit tests, or avoiding arguments, it's about understanding the true nature of women. They think with their emotions, and believe them as if they were facts. No amount of logic or rational explanation will matter if she feels like she is right. If she feels like it's raining outside, but it's sunny and there's no clouds, you can point to the sky all day but it won't do any good. Its like running on a treadmill when you're trying to move forward. Just step off the treadmill and walk around.

The key is to understand this, and don't take her emotions seriously, or let then influence you and your emotional state. You can't just continually ignore or avoid or disengage from arguments, because that just shows that you're a pussy, you have to be able to show her you're not under her emotions control, be a rock she can trust when she knows she is getting overly emotional, and change her mood, not her mind.

To answer your last question, no, the shit tests never stop. Learn to not give a fuck about them and how to demonstrate that you understand her nature and how to deal with it. But for fucks sake please don't ever try to logically explain how illogical she is, don't try to get meta with it. There's no easy way around it, you just have to have the frame to handle this shit.

rocknrollchuck · 2017-12-19T16:58:47+00:00

From The Way of the Superior Man :

Stop Hoping for Your Woman to Get Easier

She wants to feel you are uncollapsable, so she pokes you in your weak spot. So she will test you. She might not be fully conscious of why she is doing it, but she will poke your weak spots, especially in moments of your superficial success, in order to feel your strength. If you collapse, you've flunked the test. You have let your woman deflate you. You have demonstrated your dependence on her for external validation. Even if you just made a million dollars, you are a weak man. Your woman cannot trust you fully.

If you remain full and strong, humorous and happy, your truth unperturbed by her testing, then you pass the test. "Honey, I'll get you some milk, all right," you say as you sweep her off the ground and lay her on the couch, laughing, kissing, looking deeply into her eyes, and "milking" her happiness with the confident loving of your caresses. She can relax and trust your Shiva core. She can surrender the tensions around her heart. You are trustable. You don't need her validation in order for you to be loving. You simply are loving.

Your woman is testing you because she loves you. She wants to feel your truth. She wants to feel your love. And she wants to feel that your truth and love are stronger than the barbs she can throw at you. Then she can relax and surrender into the polarity of man and woman. Then she can trust you. The most loving women are the women who will test you the most.

UEMcGill · 2017-12-19T15:45:36+00:00

Does the captain ever argue with the crew? No.

Shit tests are her seeking affirmation that you are strong, that you are sure of yourself. Arguments are a challenge to your leadership.

If you lead the marriage, and she gives you her trust you will get to the point where your decisions are inherently assumed to be final. At the very least she will defer to you even when she has better information.

The funny thing about arguing, it only works when you don't have outcome independence. She can get you to argue because you give a fuck what she thinks or you want some sort of validation from her.

Approach an argument from a leadership standpoint instead. How would a captain address it? Don't address it as a meeting among equals but as if she is bringing you information. The bluepill would engage, and DEER. A leader would seek clarification.

I've ended many would be arguments by simply refusing to participate.

"Aren't you even going to talk about this?!?"

"Sure, but what you're doing is not talking. Come back when you can discuss it like an adult."

Many arguments came from her wanting me to own her feelings. WISNIFG can help you handle that.

The rest are all handled by the fact that it's my mission. She can participate or she can get off the ship. I'd love to have her aboard, but she can be replaced. Once I realized this, it was easy to not even engage.

"Oh so you get to just walk away from the argument!"

"Babe, you're the only one who's arguing."

nastynickdr · 2017-12-19T14:31:52+00:00

No, no.

You need to get to the point that you dont need to "overcome" arguments. When you are in your own frame you arent phased by anything she does/says/thinks. You laugh at her shit tests. You slap her ass after. And no, shit tests never stop, she will be always poking to see if your changes are for good (and she knows your weak spots), if you are man enough for her, or its just another thing you start and quit. If you are justifying yourself to her means that what she said is so valid and shakes you so much that you have to use all your logic to "win" the argument. At that point you already lost.

black_second_coming · 2017-12-19T13:50:03+00:00

It's been about a year and I have had exactly two arguments, both my fault because I lost frame and engaged her. She knows that I don't argue, so she doesn't try anymore. Instead, she asks for my input on situations, and trusts my answers because I have set an example of being consistent and rational.

And I was drunk for both of those arguments, so there's that.

FireTempered · 2017-12-19T18:42:41+00:00

can one realistically expect that arguments (in the traditional BP sense) cease to exist as well?

Yes. Absolutely. There cannot be an argument if you will not play.

On the other hand, the actions of others to attempt to bait you into a argument are not under your control.

You always have the option of removing yourself from a vexing situation. Leaving is amazingly effective.

classicthrowaway86 · 2017-12-20T01:13:05+00:00

We don't argue any more.. Whenever she tries to start one I laugh at her and walk off and go and do something cool.

bogeyd6 · 2017-12-20T15:58:28+00:00

Absolutely not, and initially they will intensify and grow out of control. Eventually they taper off and those long nights of arguing into the wee hours no longer exist. For me, an actual argument doesn't exist anymore. Not to be confused with just not caring about what she has to say, it is more along the lines of there is not much more to argue about. With your newly acquired skills of handling conflict (i.e. shit tests) it seems like the end is never going to be in sight. There is, but you have gone so far into the tunnel you can't see the light.

As you progress along and start internalizing and exhibiting these skills almost instinctively you find that these shit tests become diffused quite quickly so what once was an argument is now just a passing conversation. Sexualizing the encounters is an added benefit for both of you. Read as: You get to the hate fuck much more quickly.

Eventually when you come home from the store and you got 2% instead of 1% milk. The shit test is "You forgot to get 1% again?" and you answer "I need it for the gym" the milk goes into the ice box and life goes on. It's not a shit test anymore.

88Will88 · 2017-12-22T11:34:23+00:00

Women will act like children and be a general pain in the ass always. In fact the more alpha you are, the more childish she will behave, it is her natural state of being. She wants daddy to take care of everything so she can act like a spoiled child. That sort of behaviour should be water off a duck’s back. Don’t argue with her and don’t negotIate with terrorists.

hystericalbonding · 2017-12-19T12:17:37+00:00

MRP tools help you to avoid getting sucked in to pointless or counterproductive arguments, not to avoid disagreements or always have consensus.

red-sfpplus · 2017-12-19T14:33:39+00:00

For you guys who have been doing this for a few years, do you experience this?

Yes.

Persaeus · 2017-12-19T14:37:47+00:00

~~immovable~~ unflappable

replace this one word, and your understanding is correct. immovable would stem from the frame of being infallible which is untenable and counter productive to leadership.

can one realistically expect that arguments (in the traditional BP sense) cease to exist as well?

depending upon the esteem and independence of the woman, maybe to no. there will come times and decisions where she wants to turn left and you right. if you maintain frame; i would call this a discussion and not an argument. note she may be argumentative. you listen and decide. at some point you do you and she does her.

Triadis3 · 2017-12-19T16:50:35+00:00

Yes.

Brickles09 · 2017-12-19T21:46:30+00:00

How do you guys react to things like: “You now you have to sell that car!” Me: “I do, but I’m still looking for the proper place to sell it, wait a month.” She (screaming now): “Why everything you do takes so long! Enough of this! I’m selling the car myself!” And then she takes the car keys and starts heading to the garage.

You see, many here advices to keeping frame no matter what but they don’t know how it is to live with a neurotic post-wall woman conditioned by your blue pill personality for far too many years. I gave above an example of selling badly a car, what would only cost us money, but she has already done the same regarding things that could have put our lives in risk, when she was ordering inflammable material to coat our walls, or when she tried to make a terrible health insurance. At some moments you must lose frame! And scream too! And act neurotically! And that was the only thing that stopped her.

Alphaphux · 2017-12-19T23:27:08+00:00

Read the way of the superior male

Famous86 · 2017-12-20T04:19:43+00:00

First thing you need to consider is have you fucked up? If yes apologise and take ownership of the fuck up and fix it. If no, agree and amplify works best in my experience.

[deleted] · 2017-12-20T08:38:34+00:00

Thanks for the great comments and insights, everyone.

Flagfootball99 · 2017-12-20T00:23:51+00:00

Once you start implementing the sidebar, the routine arguements will go away.

Once I saw first hand that she was indeed the oldest teenager in the house, things changed. Never argue with a woman , she doesn’t use logic. All emotional based. I used to get into arguments and try explaining myself to her using logic and reasoning. What i failed to realize is that women are like dogs. You wouldn't argue with a dog, so why argue with a woman.

This is no joke. You need to fully understand to understand this. First, we know that dogs are not human. They don't think like humans. They lack the intelligence to understand what a dog is. They have no self awareness. Most of them eat what they see in front of them.

Though as a species, it has survived through years of evolution. Nature has kept some functions that were deemed necessary for it's survival while disregarding all the rest.

Much like a dog, women also have specific biological mental limitations. Though it's harder for you to see them because they walk upright and speak with words.

Scientists have found that a man's brain is hardwired differently than a woman's. When women talk scientists have observed increased brain activity on both hemispheres in comparison to the regional activity in men. Having more connectivity between parts of the brain means that more thought processes start which each starting thought.

Think of it as starting a program that filters throughout 3 other secondary processes alongside it. What's worse is those secondary processes take up most of the brain's activity instead of the main process itself. These collection of thought processes are called Personal Emotions and Experiences (or PEE for short) and are in charge of managing almost ALL logical reasoning.

PEE has one benefit. Increased memory. Our brains remember better when we associate something with a memory or an experience. That's why in universities women excel at memory based courses. However this perk comes with a lot of disadvantages. Some of which I'll state below.

They lack reasoning. That's the obvious one. Even blue pilled husbands often complain about the "lack of reasoning" their wives have. We all know about the "crazy to hot" scale. The word hysteria was created to describe women in the 19th century who suffered a form of mental illness that required "special" treatment. Only to be disregarded by the scientific community later because that's was a misdiagnosis of women. They even made a movie about it. It's ironic that there is a better chance of a man creating by accident a tool to satisfy a woman's sexual needs, than a woman to create it herself, but I digress. Even when a woman makes the most logical decision it has to pass through PEE. And that's why the hamster exists only in women.

They are self absorbed. PEE is personal, it doesn't involve others. This is why men tend to have to "win over" a woman in order to have a sexual relationship with her. It is the reason why solipsism exists.

They lack empathy. If you had every though hindered with personal thoughts you wouldn't have time to think about the others. Each act of kindness or hate is solely focused on her emotional perception upon the situation.

They are delusional. Women are unaware of PEE's existence. Like a blind man who does not know what color is, women are incapable of understanding reason. Much like a dog that lacks self awareness so does a woman cannot comprehend what logic is. So next time you argue with one consider her own biological limitations.

I am sure there are other reasons, but these are enough to make you stay away from arguing with them.

This is a man's world. We live in this world alone. Man was made to argue with other men in order to create the word around him. Do not waste this logic on women. Women have always taken the back seat in life. A woman is like a dog and wants to be treated like one.

Title	Overcoming Arguments
Author	covertcontractor
Upvotes	4
Comments	44
Date	December 19, 2017 11:53 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/7kssyq/overcoming_arguments/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/overcoming-arguments.205046 https://theredarchive.com/post/205046

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