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psubold
[–][deleted] 61 points62 points63 points 14 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link
I love the inner game vs. outer game circle jerk.
To simply get a girlfriend or a date, it's not like you need to be pick-up master extraordinaire. But if you do want to be super pimp man, you need to have both inner and outer game.
When I first got into PUA, I pretty much ignored outer game completely and delved into inner game. I thought to myself, "I can socialize well with people, I just don't feel my best". So I studied inner game, and my inner game developed through a mixture of reading, going out, and overall life improvement.
So I now I loved myself, but I was now lacking in outer game. I could look a woman in her eyes with complete steadiness, but I didn't know how to get a date.
Even if I had the mental fortitude of a Buddhist monk, I still didn't know how to interact as a man to a woman. I only knew how to be the "cool friend", not the guy that girls look at and say, "I want him to fuck me now". Outer game was what taught me these things. When to kiss a girl, how to kino properly, how to keep a girl happy and comfortable, etc. Above all, learning outer game taught me how to handle logistics. I remember one of the RSD guys (I think it was Brad) saying that having "game" is actually pretty simple, but logistics handling is one of the most difficult parts.
You need both. One without the other is still a mess of things.
[–]ConcordApes 23 points24 points25 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yup. The truth is you need a mixture. Advice like you just need "to love yourself" "be confident" "have a good self esteem" and now women will just come flocking to you is ruinous to unaware new guys who believe it. There are just some raw basics you need in addition to such "inner game" approaches that actually make you available, on their radar, and on the market.
You can have a Rembrandt painting hanging in your room, but if no one knows it is there, no one is going to appreciate it.
[–]illusiveab 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'd be inclined to say that it's more or less formulated as thus: inner game --> outer game. If you don't have the right reality and background, you've got no congruence on the exterior. No principles, no values = no beliefs = no behaviors = no reality.
I've always dug the way 60 put it: most (but not all obviously) of this game stuff is just mental masturbation. There is nothing special you need to say or do, minus putting forth the logistics and escalating appropriately. After that, it's mostly just natural sexual tension and getting out of your own way.
[–]redditorfor16days 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Advice like you just need "to love yourself" "be confident" "have a good self esteem" and now women will just come flocking to you is ruinous to unaware new guys who believe it.
it is step 1.
[–]lonelychaser 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Totally a stupid question... but where are the outer game resources?
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The field is where you develop outer game resources. I mean, I got some ideas from Julien's RSD Hot Seat preview, friends who are naturals, etc., but most of what you learn about outer game is from infield experience. Start applying the circle jerk of Seddit to real life, instead of trying to hoard more useless PUA theory if you can't apply it.
[–]aeoz 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You're not wrong, but one thing: Inner game is not everything, but without Inner Game, the game becomes nothing.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I first got into this PUA by reading mystery's book, so for a year or two I didn't even know there was an "inner game" side to the community. I lacked the confidence to really apply it though. There was no way in hell I was going to go out to a club and open sets. I would have just fumbled awkwardly all over myself. So needless to say, it never got me anywhere.
What it did do for me though, is that I actually knew what the hell was going on when I developed my inner game. All of a sudden Game came pretty naturally, but I had the sense to think "no, don't say that, that's a DLV", or whatever. And I knew how to kino, handle logistics, etc.
Anyway, what I'm trying to get at is that a solid foundation in outer game is necessary, but when you develop your inner game is when you really start to see the changes, and they come pretty effortlessly at that point.
[–]IAmError 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I like the article. Whether it will help to attract women or not, I could definitely benefit from learning to love myself.
[–][deleted] 26 points27 points28 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This isn't even a strong point, never mind rule #1. It smacks of moralizing and keyboard jockey advice. Here's my rule #1, dude: Field Experience is the most important thing you can have.
[–]Richandler 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Opening your mouth is a lot more important than the emotional bath the article suggests.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
TL;DR Love yourself.
To be honest, from the title alone I thought this article would be bullshit, but it hits the nail on the head. You don't have to be the most handsome, confident, witty, or smartest man on the scene, but you've got to be secure in yourself and who you are.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Meh, I call bullshit, no matter how much you love yourself you can't change the facts of picking up HB10's:
They have literally a billion guys to choose from.
If you aren't in state you might get shaky in the knees fucking up the interaction.
I'd say the number one rule has less to do with loving yourself and more to do with not taking proper care of yourself. When you invest time and energy into your health you reap the rewards of a solid mental state and increased physical attractiveness.
[–]thisis4reddit 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
They said love yourself, not 'lust after yourself'. That's an important difference. I can tell who lusts after themselves; they're skeezy, gross, arrogant, confident dicks who can fuck any girl with low self-esteem (hot or not). Men (men) who love themselves are secure with themselves. They are who they are, no more, no less.
I think you're confusing men and women. Women don't value looks as much as men do (I'm not being insulting - that's just... how it is). I find guys who obsess about image think that women do the same thing - we don't. I will drool over a sexy guy but a sexy guy can turn ugly real fast if he thinks he's the shit. Guys are more willing to overlook that (bigger tolerance, not completely tolerant).
So I really think it is about loving yourself. As a girl who tends to be the right amount of friendly and attractive to be approached often by men, I'm always more attracted to confident guys who love, not lust after, themselves.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Lol, no offense but when you've been through 200+ women you learn a few things about them.
They think they know what they want but don't, which is why they give men such shitty advice about dating.
They care about looks, more than this they care about masculinity and social dominance. Neither of which have to do with loving yourself. Don't get me wrong, I know there are girls out there who value looks very little, but your average hot chick does. She does because she can. She wants the whole genetic package for her future children and I can't really blame her for wanting this.
Guys have been trying to "unlock" the special missing ingredient for nailing incredibly hot chicks (when I say hot I mean top of the top, not 8's not 9's but perfect 10's) for centuries, and in my mind there is nothing special to unlock. Have high value in all areas of life, and be in the right place at the right time and in the right state of mind, take your craps shot with an approach, rinse and repeat until you succeed.
Don't get me wrong here, I agree confidence is important and it's better to be a down to earth guy than a socially impotent narcissist, but being confident and in a healthy state of mind is not a magic pill that will cause all the world's beautiful women to drop to their knees and beg you to be with them. It's going to take a lot more work than this for most guys.
P.S. I still have no idea exactly what you were attacking in my post. You seem to be reading words that weren't even there. One last piece of advice: "they're skeezy, gross, arrogant, confident dicks who can fuck any girl with low self-esteem" - This is what you want to believe, but not what is. You should learn to seperate the two.
[–]blank 51 points52 points53 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]CuilRunnings 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A few more details:
1) - Grooming, style, fitness, takes job/school seriously and still have a social life, talks easily and often, arranges events, seen as one who builds group consensus (honestly just need 2-3, but the more the merrier).
2) - Doesn't say/do anything creepy (aka that demonstrates lack of sex)
[–]Orange_Ya_Glad 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
1- Have a cat 2- Don't not have a cat
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
God, I hate seeing this every time I browse AskReddit or some shit. It's like the go-to angry-friendzoned-guy response.
In reality, you just need to not be unattractive. It'll automatically separate you from the legions of mouth breathers.
[–]ConcordApes 25 points26 points27 points 14 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link
I’ve never met anyone who truly loves themselves who is unhappy or unable to attract women.
Bullshit. There are plenty of great introverts who just don't get out there enough. It isn't simply a matter of loving yourself. There are some other raw basics you need to know. Honestly, this myth is no better than bullshit like "The Secret"
[–]psubold 65 points66 points67 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I disagree. An introvert is not someone who is unable to interact with others. An introvert is a person who gets their energy from alone time.
http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/extraversion-or-introversion.asp
People often confuse social anxiety with introversion.
Introversion is a trait and introverted people still have friends and interact with people. If that intoverted person is confident in who they are, they will still have opportunities to interact with women and show what they are all about, just not as many opportunities as an extrovert.
People with social anxiety are that way because of some past experience or insecurity. They avoid interaction with others, which is not healthy.
Also, I would agree that there is more to know that can help you pickup women (techniques and such), but nothing will ever really work unless you already have a high self esteem.
[–]ashsimmonds 28 points29 points30 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Confident self-loving introvert checking in...
I don't have social anxiety, I can be the life of a party, organise get togethers, meet groups of strangers and form new groups, and yes - I'm decent with women. Knowing seduction inside-out is more an academic pursuit in applied psychology for me, having the self-esteem to know you're good enough to be at least equal to anyone of "high value" (wank term) is the biggest factor, social dynamics awareness just helps hone the craft for someone like me who was never a "natural" at conversation.
However, I'm still say 90% introvert, I do go out most nights, but if I don't have specific plans I prefer to be alone.
[–]KallistiEngel16 points 14 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Self-loving introvert here too. I've got a good social life, people love being around me, but I'm not actually attracting women. I'm currently on a dry spell of a few months.
I'm also gonna put this out there: The period of time where I did best with women was after a particularly bad breakup, during a time where I was filled with self-loathing. I didn't give a fuck about myself or anyone else. I was going out pretty much every night, drinking out of sorrow, and usually driving home drunk (thankfully I managed to not kill myself or someone else with that stupidity). Somehow I wound up attracting a lot of people to me at that time.
So there's a lot more to it than just loving yourself.
[–]Thagros 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes, exactly, yes. I know plenty of self-loathing, negative people who can attract women consistently. And NO, not damaged women with personality disorders.
I'm new to Seddit so i don't know if this is raised all the time - what is with PUA's (are they even called that anymore?) who have to assert everything they say? That is, they imply a ridiculous degree of self-evidence about the points they are making. They're as bad as zealous communists and libertarians stating, "If everyone just did it my way, everyone would be happy. I know they would."
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Confident introvert here. I love being alone, and I love my videogames and me-time. But I also love partying, going outside, and pimping it. Put me in almost any social situation, and I can meet new people if not make friends. Personally, it's the perfect balance for me. I like to pretend it's the ultimate medium between the world of geeky girls, and the world of, uh, "more outgoing" girls!
Are you me?
[–]AnUnknown 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Upvote for similarity.
Whenever I (make the mistake of) tell somebody new that I'm generally an introvert or somewhat antisocial they tilt their heads and give me a look like I've suddenly become a martian. I have the skill to be and the experience of being a leader; I can converse with relative ease, read social cues, and essentially "make do" in whatever situation I find myself. If getting laid as often as possible were one of my goals, I'd be doing that as well. It isn't all that challenging. That just isn't how I prefer to spend my time.
[–]Eloni 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I’ve never met anyone who truly loves themselves who is unhappy
That part caught my attention too. I love myself, hell I've even been called a narcissist, but I'm unhappy or borderline depressed.
(Since someone will probably ask why... I have no job, have had no job for close to two years and have gone through all my saving and then some. I'm as broke as they come, only reason I even have clothes on my back and a roof over my head right now is because I have friends, family and a girlfriend who all loves me. Seeing them stretch their economy to help me just makes me more depressed.)
[–]wtjones 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Narcissism isn't about loving yourself.
[–]Eloni 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I didn't say it was. I said I love myself. Then I said, that I've even been called a narcissist.
I didn't call myself a narcissist, though if we're entering that debate, then I'm inclined to agree with
Freud, in that healthy narcissism is an essential part of normal development,
and with Lubit's classification I'd fall under the category of healthy in that I have high outward self-confidence in line with reality, as opposed to an unrealistic sense of superiority.
Thread derailed, the point of my post was that I love myself but am not happy, which according to the original article apparently isn't possible.
[–]1011011 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why no job for two years?
[–]breakN_leaveflowers 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's bullshit primarily because he says it's "all you need to know" when really it's only about ten percent of it. You need to know what women like and what turns them on, the rest is implementation and finally presentation, and I would say this falls under presentation.
[–]grantmoore3d 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Introvert is the wrong word to use, but your message has merit. However, I would argue that those who love themselves have a greater probability of success than those who do not.
[–]ConcordApes 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I will agree whole heartedly with that. It's just just part of the equation.
[–]Err_Eek 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
word brother. I really do hate it when I get fed that whole positive thinking, love yourself and be in tune with the universe instead of proper seduction tips
[–]ConcordApes 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Well there is something to having a positive attitude. But that directly affects how you interact with other people. No one wants to hear about how much it sucks that you have a wart on your foot all night.
[–]Err_Eek 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
there's a slight difference between being a whiny asshole and a funny cynic (just think about it, no successful stand-up comedian has a positive attitude on stage)
[–][deleted] 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]Err_Eek 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo -- I also feel the need to promote this book, though it's not seduction related, and I'll be the first to admit it has some slippery slope arguments.
Same argument applies, if positive thinking is all you bring to the table, you'll look more like a Stepford wife than a Casanova. Or maybe it's just me being European...
[–]maxd 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
What on earth do you mean by "proper seduction tips"? The whole mechanism of finding great women is by being great yourself, which means having a high value of yourself.
Yes, clever ways to make a woman want you more are all well and good, but ultimately the first thing you need to do is love yourself.
[–]Err_Eek 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Everybody loves themselves. Well, everybody that doesn't commit suicide or seriously contemplates it.
And is it so devastating for one's game to be a realist? You know, not bullshitting yourself, see your own faults and how they can be corrected. And also know your pluses and "market" them properly.
[–]maxd 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's not true; when I was younger it's not that I didn't love myself, but I wasn't happy and confident with myself. And no, I never contemplated suicide. In my old age (hah, I'm 30) I fucking love myself and who I am today, and this encourages people to like me, even without me making an effort.
Of course it's worth seeing your own faults and how they can be corrected; that is part of loving yourself! If you don't love yourself, there is no impulse to better yourself. You shouldn't have to "market" yourself, people should want to buy without any marketing.
[–]punisher1005 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
TL;DR - Inner game matters.
If you guys want to learn some awesome inner game stuff. Check out Hypnotica. He is an obviously smart guy who has some solid advice.
[–]etebi 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Obviously loving yourself is great. But Is it "all you need to know"?
I don't know. I've heard of depressed people in relationships.
And even if you love yourself, and have great self-confidence, if you don't meet new girls in your everyday life at least once in a while, you have to do something. Either cold approach, or online dating, both which take some degree of social skills. And even if yoou meet a girl through your social circle, (even if it's easy mode) asking her out, and dating is not trivial. Or do most people have this baseline of social skills?
I assume "average" guys (non-natural/non-pua) meet girls through their friends, or hobbies, right? So how often does this happen? Every weekend or so? Sometimes I read on reddit things like "once we got engaged, girls started flocking to me". How does that happen? Do the girls just approach them? Or is it through friends?
I have a very small circle of friends, and I'm an engineer, and I'm wondering how often "normal" guys interact with new women.
[–]CaliforniaBurrito858 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
$$$
FIFY.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Limiting beliefs.
[–]eyeyoufan 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Couldn't agree more with this article. When I finally stopped trying to do this or that, and just enjoyed life and was being myself, I found someone I love very deeply now. And is the most beautiful thing.
[–]etebi 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
so where did you find her?
[–]eyeyoufan 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Friends of friends so every once in a while I ran into her. I was just being myself when hanging out, not even thinking of trying to impress anyone; just having fun and being me. From there....thought she was a lot of fun....sensed attraction....realized we had a lot in common...
[–]LouieKablooie 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Cant save button need to come back and read.
[–]solen-skiner 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I feel this belongs in here. A 30 day schedule to develop your manlyness
[–]JumpIntoTheMatrix -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Soooo sidebar??
© TheRedArchive 2026. All rights reserved.created by /u/dream-hunter
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