You don't need this sub

2021-01-03T18:37:06+00:00

[permanently deleted]

kettlebell_workout · 2021-01-03T19:52:45+00:00

Lol. This post gave me the motivation to read more books and improve myself even more so that I could find a job at a nightclub.

terax_cil · 2021-01-03T19:15:22+00:00

I don't think you're doing a deservice to the men who are on this thread saying to them "just be yourself" but I think you're projecting a bit much. Not everyone is you. You are you and they are they them. Some of these guys have social anxiety, they have trouble speaking with women, not to mention beautiful ones. Some of us are very unsocialized in a way, we didn't have your job in the night club where we were paid to chat with people and have to talk to 100 people a day. So us the unsocialized and lonely that want to change that, and try to improve ourselves and just be able to have a happy life with someone we love, what is wrong with it? If some men can't even speak with a woman without becoming a nervous wreck, how do you expect them to find someone, like you mentioned, that will live them for who they are? Just hope to happen? Just get off your hugh horse dude. Fortune favours the bold, and everyone that tries to become a better version of themselves are truly bold.

almostcorey · 2021-01-03T21:00:17+00:00

It’s a catch 22. If somebody is helped by this post, then they did need this sub.

slaphappypap · 2021-01-03T20:03:21+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2021-01-03T20:40:02+00:00

[permanently deleted]

abrectant · 2021-01-04T00:36:47+00:00

finally, a good fucking post. if a woman doesn’t like you for who you are there’s no point in losing your identity for her. everyone here is way too redpilled to see the actual point of this post, which is finding women of quality who you’d want to spend time with versus putting every woman on a pedestal

metroaide · 2021-01-03T23:44:39+00:00

I'm here to remind me that I am not alone

SephiRickRoth · 2021-01-04T05:43:25+00:00

I do think there are a lot people who are putting way too much thought into this whole "game" concept. Just talk and be you, you learn how to flirt and convey interest through experience, not sitting here reading this sub.

2021-01-03T21:38:35+00:00

[permanently deleted]

ssss_ · 2021-01-03T21:11:57+00:00

"Just be yourself" only works if you are inherently good at game. This is just survivorship bias in action.

MusicNerd-2735 · 2021-01-03T19:34:37+00:00

So can we still say that ‘being yourself’ is a good thing? It’s gonna sound awkward and stupid to place yourself in a ‘package’ that’s not really you and hopefully someone would grab you off-the-shelf just like that? It’s like looking for a pair of shoes for your hands

I wanna pick your brains about this whole debate, actually we’re sort of in a related industry, me being in the music industry in my country. You would that it’s real easy to get some chicks but it’s not. I really hope you guys can shed some light on this one.

Freevoulous · 2021-01-04T09:43:11+00:00

I mostly agree with you, but beginners still need basic advice to start up.

All what you wrote amounts to nothing to a guy who dies a virgin due to totally obvious (in retrospect) mistakes.

What neither you, or most of this sub teaches, is RELATIONSHIP MANAGEMENT. Becoming good enough to have reliable seduction skills (so that you are certain you will be never involuntarily celibate/alone) takes about 6 months.

That is it, at that point you likely max-out the useful part of the Seduction Skill. Getting better than that is mostly pointless exercise, a game for a game's sake.

But what then? You still need to learn relationship skills, and in-relationship seduction, so that the relationships you form actually would make you happy and be stable. Whether you want to be monogamous, or in an open relationship, or single forever and spin plates, this takes a skill that PUA rarely teach. About the only guys I know who teach that, are BlackDragon and ancients like Steve Picus, but you have to untangle a lot from their works.

But on the whole, you do not actually NEED this sub. You need to focus on one or two Seduction systems, learn it to the level at which you can reliably cause sufficiently attractive women to have sex with you, and then try to learn how to manage your relationships with them. You do not need to memorise 30 books on seduction, and religiously read this sub. It is tempting for us nerds to over-analyze and memorise huge systems, and then argue about them, but you only need the bare bones basics, which would encourage you to go out and try your luck.

MakeSail · 2021-01-03T18:54:54+00:00

My dads buddy has banged over 1800 chicks in his life and has never needed any books. He ain’t even hugely handsome He is decisive and confident

Javares · 2021-01-04T06:06:32+00:00

I agree that this advice works for some men, the small minority of men...say 20%. I learned this early on since 8th grade. Girls were pretty yeah, but often boring. I was popular so I had my picks in Hs, I was in high demand so my "frame" was built up early on. Not game though, I had frame but no idea how to escalate for a while because girls who I talked to in hs were dtf from the start, there was no need to really hesitate or worry about sexual assaultcharge. That's another story though.

However, in that same hs, in my class sat beside me Jacob. Who was Jacob? Jacob was a stereotypical loser. He was a white jew, wore glasses, had a gut, not athletic, not smart, short arms, bad clothes, bad haircut, bad shoes , below average face, and a creepy smile to boot. The type of guy, other classmates made fun of behind his back. I found myself cringing when I asked him why he and I were so different. He could never look me in the eye for more than a few seconds, as if afraid of being rebuked.

Jacob and I spoke often in class. I told him of the fun I was having to see the look of awe in his face, he loved my stories. I loved having people praise me.. He watched with admiration when a girl came to kiss me, or I fondled a girl in the hall or girls gossiped about me as I walked past. He saw me as a god, I mean that literally, he would often call me a god. I got too uncomfortable one day and tried to help him out. Getting this guy to be presentable couldn't be that hard, could it?

I had one of my girls at the time do me the favor of talking to him, having an honest conversation and give him advice. I saw him in school the next day and asked him how it went. He said it was fine, and was grateful for the chance to talk to the girl. Weeks go by and all the advice that the girl had given him was for nought, he had refused to change.

Like Jacob, there is a feeling of unworthiness in all of us. I have it when doing cold approach after a long time. I forget my value. Jacob has had it all his life and probably will for the rest of it. Most Men fall somewhere between Jacob and I. For times of uncertainty, this sub would be great for many. I particularly like field reports where guys barely achieve anything yet call it a dub, they inspire me because I've succeeded where they have not. For other men like Jacob I could hope its a guide maybe? I haven't read the side bar tbh. But a place to ask questions after taking action, or get inspired from the actions others take? That's a good place to be.

Though... guys like Jacob would probably just devour forum upon forum and never take action. Just watch from the sidelines because he knows his place is not out there on the field, making plays. The big problem is most people who go on these kinds of forums are like Jacob, unwilling to step into the cage. Even then there are still ugly, weak bodied, dumb men who can't hold a conversation without quivering. These are the ones who need the general advice, but the advice is so obvious...if they wanted to be better they would have. But whatever, the forum being needed does not matter. Most know they dont need it. But they may want it. We don't need most things so I say what's the harm.

Moikepdx · 2021-01-04T00:06:28+00:00

This is so true. It’s just like those idiots who go to the gym and lift weights. Why waste your time? You’re already manly. Whenever I gaze down at my 6-pack abs and do that thing where I pop my pecs one at a time I realize anyone can do this shit.

There’s just no point in working out. Accept yourself and realize that lifting weights isn’t fulfilling. Get a good ice cream going and chill. That’ll make everything better. Or maybe just get drunk?

Humble brag lazy bullshit.

This sub exists because people want to better themselves socially and sexually. Doing nothing is what got the results that led them here. They deserve good advice, not condescending messages telling them to give up without putting in any effort.

hass94lux · 2021-01-04T13:29:55+00:00

The moderater wont like this post

crispydeluxx · 2021-01-03T22:18:57+00:00

Too bad “being yourself” doesn’t just work for all guys.

2021-01-03T21:04:02+00:00

There is nothing wrong with you

This.

How did you meet the girl who said those good things to you?

2021-01-03T21:06:27+00:00

[permanently deleted]

CenaSmackDown · 2021-01-03T22:15:34+00:00

Some of these posts are interesting so I don't mind browsing

kingpersnickety · 2021-01-03T22:20:09+00:00

I worked night life too but nothing to your extent. Should’ve stayed in the game longer to get the lessons.

alotofmoney451 · 2021-01-03T22:47:59+00:00

Wait how old are you and how old were you when you started the club gig

snakewithnoname · 2021-01-04T04:32:58+00:00

Club girls always seemed like a hot mess. Then again, clubs in general aren’t my jam...

ithinkoutloudtoo · 2021-01-04T06:16:32+00:00

All of the dating/relationship/seduction books at the bookstore prey on people’s insecurities. Otherwise, why would someone buy them? Do you honestly believe that the authors really care about you other than separating you from your money. Your dating dilemma does not keep them up at night either. You are making them money based upon your insecurities. Same with all of the self-help bs out there too.

shantytown22 · 2021-01-04T08:16:16+00:00

I love how I just opened this sub to check it out and the first post is THIS😂

middproxxy · 2021-01-04T08:24:37+00:00

Watch out for Halo effect, the capacity in a woman to pull it off usually comes paired with some degree of NPD.

Elek00 · 2021-01-04T10:41:20+00:00

Follow what he says if you feel like one night stands are your thing. If you feel fulfilled with having meaningless sex with a hot chick then you might want to learn the GAME.

In my case, you grow out of it. For the good sex to happen you need chemicals in your brain to be bubbling. You need that connection with the girl and the only way for this to happen you need to be YOU and not fake Tyler Durden. Smart girls will spot this and you'll have no chance. If you think you had a good sex with the stranger then just wait for a birthday cake.

Do what makes you happy. By saying this I don't mean just reading it and thinking you understand it. If you get it then you'll feel it but this requires experience and level of maturity.

2021-01-04T11:44:59+00:00

Don't know why, but i need to get it off my chest. I think it's 1 person in approx 2 billion, cuz others are either very young, old, male or transgender.

Also, you won't have the access to all of those 2 billion girls, just like 300-500 at most if you try hard enough.

colombianboyredux · 2021-01-04T12:28:34+00:00

My story is similar but I'm 26 and still no one's type . I've only fucked one girl (pity fuck for a virgin basically) and haven't had sex in over four years and now I feel it's too late

WHEN does it get better?

Roxyboa · 2021-01-04T16:11:00+00:00

How about not judging every girl you meet looking for nookie.

Treat everyone how you want to be treated.

You would have a thousand new friends.

testandreview · 2021-01-04T17:06:04+00:00

Oh, another "You dont need this sub" post. Didnt had them for like a day.

Finzi · 2021-01-04T18:09:50+00:00

This is a good post with some good insights. I'm not here to throw shade, but this post misses an important point. OP says:

You guys are trying so hard to get with women that I guarantee you probably wouldn't even enjoy being around anyway.

The thing is, though, spending time with — and especially having sex with — hot girls is its own reward. In theory, her personality could be so terrible that it spoils the pleasure, but this is rare. It's delusional to comfort yourself in failure by saying, "Oh, she's probably boring anyway."

This relates to a deeper issue about the different motivations for seduction. Obviously, purely hedonistic or sensual pleasure is a big part of it, but there's something else, too. There's a sense of achievement and social status that comes with a successful seduction. Seducing a beautiful girl is pleasurable in part because it is something that most men can't do. The value of the experience is due in part to its scarcity. A successful seduction boosts one's sense of autonomy and life mastery. I am an agent in the world who can get what he wants through intentional action, not just hope or luck or accidental "compatibility."

The basic problem is that we have desires and the world presents obstacles to our fulfillment of those desires. Telling yourself, "Oh, it's not worth pursuing because her personality is probably just so-so," isn't really a satisfactory answer to this problem. It's more like a comforting delusion.

Satisfaction comes when you set out to do something difficult and succeed. Seduction isn't the only pursuit that produces this kind of pleasure, and I wouldn't advise men to focus on seduction to the exclusion of other pursuits, but seduction is one way to achieve a sense of world mastery.

18cmOfGreatness · 2021-01-05T17:28:25+00:00

I want them to impress me instead of the other way around and once I feel like they are someone I want to get involved with, I kiss them. If they reject me, I don't care, they are 1 person in 7 billion.

This is spot on. But the vast majority of guys would never understand this without this sub or without experiencing this first-hand like you did. So your "you don't need this sub" claim is a lie. Also, this is just one realisation, you are still not quite there at the highest level of understanding.

A decade of this stuff has made me realise that it’s really all just a masquerade for finding someone who likes you for who you are. Peace.

Or you can become a man who is love "for who he is" by many attractive women. And, as a result, he has a broad choice of potential partners and enjoy sexual abundance. Getting a gf isn't hard as long as you aren't too hopeless. But if you want to have sexual life of a king, if you want to enjoy it to the fullest, then your level of understanding of the inner dynamics wouldn't be enough. At least you realized that manipulating women into sex is a bad idea and that you should be the one who CHOOSES instead of the one who chases. This alone makes you better than most guys out there.

p.s. Wtf, why there are so many deleted comments? I hope that this sub didn't become a place where mods delete comments they dislike for personal reasons.

randomtalkAFF · 2021-01-07T14:17:29+00:00

"They're also coming and going and going and coming and always... too soon"

I can see how one would be tried. Reading all these comments makes one stop, take a long sip of that delicious nutmeg latte, admire the person across the way from you then jump right into the comments with a fever to spread your own mind virus to all who will give you that dopamine hit... ^{Ooh Yeah... that's what daddy likes ahhhh} \ahem** I'm sorry what were we doing? OH right... experience. YES. Yes to that. Since we are sharing our two pennies might I toss my wooden nickel in as well. ^\disclaimer: I am a random dude on the internet this is not life advice but a mere telling of a tale of a young buck that asked a simple question and found his way here. There is no reason to believe any of this though some stories are real while others are embelished for entertainment purposes*)

Our tale begins in the yester-years of the Internet. A bright eyed, bushy tailed (And What a tail I might add) lad asked a question "Why do girls constantly say to me 'You're such a nice guy why don't you have a girlfriend?'" And I thought "YEAH! Why don't I have one? I would like one but I can't seem to get the ones I want" It plagued me. Girls say they are looking for a nice guy but when I am nice to them, they just say thank you. ^{It's called being nice for a reason.} I thought well someone has to have asked this question. Thus my jounery to discover the Ark of the PUA began
(though I had no idea pick up was a thing, I mean Peacocking? Really Really guys? Oookay
^{Whaddya mean where did I get this suit? My parents worked in Vegas okay. Hey..Do me a favor and fluff my tail feathers would ya thanks.})
"How to begin dating" "How to date" "Dating and you" "Dating for Dummies" I read a few and realized HEY I'm doing this already. So what gives.

Enter David Deangelo and Double Your Dating

I had never heard this advice before. There's no way this works, right? But as I added a few routines and thought about how to handle situations, it helped to nuture my natural CHA of 16. (I put my 18 in CON for that stamina baby! HEYO *ahem* sorry) It lead me to Mystery, Neil, and the rest of the gang. I read books they mentioned, learned what to look for how communication was happening, and finally dressed like the male stripper I know I could be... What I like tight pants okay.

When I read "The Game" things began to click, I was still the nice guy but I had upgraded myself. I took my natural "talk to anybody" vibe and started to notice signs things I never noticed before. Instead of hoping to get lucky or settling for what was given, I now had the ability to choose. In the immortal words of the Captian... "The Power Is YOURS"

This is getting long... Okay Let's Wrap It up with a few points...

First I will say: I feel current success can cause one to forget the previous struggles. How do we learn? By failing. If they could do already Of Course they wouldn't need this. Also I could read all the books on how to be a compainon weightlifter, doesn't mean I can lift that weight. ^\CRACK* AH my leg!) What happened? ^{I tried lifting all these books...}

Second: Be yourself but be your BEST self. Like a comment said we change how we are depending on who we are around at the time. Know who you are and what you want. Let that person continue to grow into a person you love and understand ^{Thank you Lynyrd Skynyrd}
if you don't like the person you can change it. Because you are selling yourself
^{I'm on special right now only Niine} ^(\ahem* NOT that kind of selling...)* ^{Awww but I have pie charts and a keynote}.
It could the "perfect product" but presented wrong and it flops. Happens to singers, actors, people applying for jobs all the time.

Third: See everyone as human first. Never have an agenda, be genuinely interested in the moment with them. Which leads me to the next one

Fourth: Be okay with what happens next and be okay with saying no if you have to....
Do they want to spend more time with you? Great. Do they want to take you to a resturant where you eat live frogs? ah...Great? Take you back to their place as they ambush you with all that's wrong in their life? Yeah that was my dog on the phone, he's stuck in the doggie door again but hey nice meeting I'll call you :D
It should always be fun for you first THEN them.

Finally: It's a skill of human interaction and communication. Skills can be learned and improved. Most everything we know is a skill in this regard.

^{Twinkies this is big... well I hope the containment unit holds....}

These are a few of the things I have used to have decent success with relationships. Of course it goes deeper than this. I still have a lot to learn but I plan on improving and learning until the cows come home. ^{Should be here by 7 o'clock you say? Well it's just that it's getting dark and I'm worried}
You all are beautiful and don't forget to keep those masks on. Do it for Deadpool, he'll love you for it.

recyclablebanthas · 2021-01-05T00:49:21+00:00

There's a lot of interesting information in here for people who want it. Appreciate you keeping it up. Just some notes on a few things:

1

Her words spoke to the young man in me who struggled with this stuff for years and I had this sudden sensation of arriving at the destination I had been seeking.

The whole PUA movement has a lot of guys in it that I'm working through a lot of emotional issues from their past which led to them being lonely before they started picking up game.

What you're talking about here is the sort of thing that is definitely true and profound, but is the sort of realization that comes much later on this journey.

Presenting this to people who have barely started on this journey, with the title unintentionally telling them they don't need to take the journey, is why you got so much pushback..

I think you have a lot of value that you could offer guys here if you reconsider the presentation of the information.

2

....I'm putting this up in the hopes that I can help some of you out and save you a lot of failed relationships.....I am leaving (game) behind with the wisdom of hindsight.

Niel Strauss was right in his book The Truth...

A lot of people who've read The Game really do need to continue on to read The Truth as well.

It's important to note that there is a difference though, between the game as it's defined among old school PUA philosophy, and its core social skills.

Regarding the failed relationships you're referring to, the core issue is not "game" itself, but rather how someone is gaming, which can vary.

A lot of guys unintentionally adopt practices which attract unhealthy people into their lives or encourage unhealthy relationships with the people they date.

But since a lot of things can "work," It can be easy to think that game is the same thing as long as you're getting somewhere with women. But it's not the case.

3

If you want to surprise her with a romantic evening because you're a hopeless romantic, fucking do it. I'd much rather have a girl love me for who I am than than strip away all my uniqueness for some meaningless sex.

It is important for guys to realize that they don't need to follow a script. Very true!

The distinction though is that guys still need confidence in themselves and they need to know how to engage in kind or romantic acts without falling into the nice guy trap where they are unintentionally sacrificing their self-respect by giving too much of themselves in an attempt to please someone at the expense of themselves.

Also, there's something to be said for the fun of casual sex as long as someone is away what they're doing and doing it with people that they actually like. A lot of guys gaming out there are hooking up with whoever they can get at with no regard for the kind of people they actually like.

This can lead to a lot of self-hatred if one is constantly being physically or emotionally intimate with someone they don't like.

4

The biggest lesson I got from all this, is that attractive women are painfully normal.

In one of his talks, James Marshall mentions how a lot of guys don't realize that models are often very lonely because of the lifestyle they live in that people they are around in their industry. (A lot of the models and photographers in their industry are not interested in women and a lot of guys on the street are too intimidated to talk to them, etc.)

It's always important to remember that people are people.

5

That's why I say, you don't need to be here, because you've already chatted to attractive women. Every human you've ever chatted to is the same as chatting to a gorgeous girl.

The reason why people are here is because they often need inner game that you've built up due to your experiences and insights which have come as a result of being on the path you're now unintentionally telling them not to walk.

It's like that story in a movie where the character has a bunch of adventures only to realize that home was the place they really want to be. They wouldn't have realized that if they hadn't have gone on those adventures and done those things.

Ironically, people may even tell them that the journey is unnecessary, but that only spurs them on faster.

6

EDIT: I’m leaving this up because at least some people understood what I was saying.... This whole movement is dead now....

I'm glad you left it up. There are guys ready for it.

But let's not jump to conclusions. The movement is the same as it ever was. People are always coming and going according to where they are in life.

Title	You don't need this sub
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	925
Comments	73
Date	January 3, 2021 6:23 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/kppqxn/you_dont_need_this_sub/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/you-dont-need-this-sub.1508035 https://theredarchive.com/post/1508035

Comments