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Baby who lost consciousness after circumcision died in Israel

ShaidarHaran2

June 27, 2022
886 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.timesofisrael.com/boy-who-lost-consciousness-after-circumcision-dies/
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Post Information
Title Baby who lost consciousness after circumcision died in Israel
Author

ShaidarHaran2

Upvotes 886
Comments 220
Date June 27, 2022 4:20 PM UTC
(4 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vlzbmz/baby_who_lost_consciousness_after_circumcision/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/baby-who-lost-consciousness-after-circumcision.1121249
https://theredarchive.com/post/1121249
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Remembering that man who lost his penis to a circumcision when he was a baby, the doctors and parents decided they could just raise him as a girl without it, and ultimately he committed suicide. What a sad tormented soul, all for a cosmetic procedure performed on newborns.

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Comments

[–]Ferbuggity 141 points142 points143 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Poor little man. :(

[–][deleted] 244 points245 points246 points 4 years ago (75 children) | Copy Link

Where are all the "my body, my choicers" in the circumsision argument. Poor babies

[–]ShaidarHaran2[S] 80 points81 points82 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I support my body my choice, only I do so for every gender, which unfortunately not all of them can say.

[+]Boxisteph -6 points-5 points-4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Its a religion problem not a gender one.

[–]EmirikolWoker 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This you?

[–]paintypainterson 38 points39 points40 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Men's care and compassion is always second rate or glossed over.

[–]Libidomy94 36 points37 points38 points 4 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

I think they’re out hijacking any legitimate discussion about circumcision to make sure it focuses on female circumcision

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points21 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Female circumcision isn't even a thing in western countries.

[–]Ferbuggity 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

It kind of is... kids get shipped 'back home' to have it done.

[–]Libidomy94 19 points20 points21 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

And it’s a terrible thing in it’s own right.

But the practice of male circumcision deserves it’s own conversation.

[–]Ferbuggity 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes it does, and I'm done... but I can't sit by and let misinformation slide on a topic like that.

[–]Libidomy94 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough, I can respect that

[–]plainwalk 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Which means it isn't a thing in western countries. Even then, it's illegal (in the UK and Canada, for sure) to send a girl "back home" to get it done.

[–]Ferbuggity 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

African-Australian activist Khadija Gbla estimates that 11 girls per day are at risk of FGM in Australia.

https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/female-genital-mutilation-risk-especially-pandemic

Since 1990, the estimated number of girls and women in the US who have undergone or are at risk of the practice has more than tripled.

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/11/health/female-genital-mutilation-fgm-explainer-trnd/index.html

.. and so on.

[–]ImplodedPotatoSalad 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So? This is not a correct sub for this topic. This sub is about men, and this threadnis also about men. Not women. We shpuld nkt derail it into female issues thread, really.

[–]Ferbuggity 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm just correcting misinformation. Point taken.

[–]sudev29 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I've heard of this but I don't understand what they do. Google says they remove external genitalia but what do they mean? They cut off the clittoris?

[–]Boxisteph -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Because the religions that support it aren't prevalent in the west. The west is based off of Abrahamic religion which a the snip happy one's.

[–]EmirikolWoker 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

...You realise Islam is an Abrahamic religion, right? And that some varieties of Islam practice FGM (along with MGM)?

And even if what you said was true, it's still a rights disparity - one is rightly recognised as a violation of human rights, the other is relatively commonplace (even without the religious justification, like in the US).

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]TextDependent6779 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

not anymore....

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]TextDependent6779 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

US: With the passage of the federal law ban, the Female Genital Mutilation Act, in 1996, performing FGM on anyone under age 18 became a felony in the United States.

UK: FGM was outlawed in the UK by the Prohibition of Female Circumcision Act 1985

picked these two because its yours and my country.

it's not particularly surprising to me, though i am surprising at how recently it was outlawed. history is extremely long, and most of the developed west was, at one point, like the undeveloped east. i actually didn't know for certain, but i figured it more than likely was practiced throughout history in every country. disgusting.

i find it interesting that almost 40 years on, and male genital mutilation still hasn't been banned by the UK (25 in the US) though.

anyway, I'd be highly surprised to see FGM re-legalised (rightfully so), despite it being a belief by some obscure religious.

[–]Ferbuggity 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What I don't comprehend is the kind of argument that goes "but this is worse than that!" as if the suffering of one group negates the suffering of another in some way, it's illogical and disturbingly dismissive of the suffering. No child should suffer this way ... all abuse deserves the spotlight. The lack of compassion is disgusting.

[–]Libidomy94 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Truth!

[–]IngoTheGreat 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What you're referring to is the fallacy of relative privation.

[–]NesVier 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because they care about themselves but also not give a fuck about men. Simple as that.

[–]Mr_Goodnite -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Make babies should be circumcised

[+]BitlifeOffical_ -33 points-32 points-31 points 4 years ago (48 children) | Copy Link

There's a difference between that and having to birth, raise, and be in that kids life forever.

[–]Shadowdragon409 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

When that is the popular phrase, it doesn't matter what the hidden meaning is. The words say "My body my choice" It can and will be applied to every scenario where someone's body is being altered without their choice.

[+]BitlifeOffical_ -24 points-23 points-22 points 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

So now do you understand why women are mad about RoeVWade? We are being forced to keep a child INSIDE of us we don't want.

[–]Shadowdragon409 19 points20 points21 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Why did you just assume that I *didn't* understand?

[+]BitlifeOffical_ -11 points-10 points-9 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Because most men here don't so that's directed to all that think we should just pop them right out.

[–]Shadowdragon409 22 points23 points24 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Most men here do actually. You confirmation biased your way to that conclusion.

The men complaining are saying that our reproductive rights are now equivalent, in terms of federal law. Which is an accurate statement. They are not advocating for forced births.

[+]BitlifeOffical_ -6 points-5 points-4 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Uh you're soo wrong. You have no idea how many I've seen.

[–]Shadowdragon409 16 points17 points18 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I haven't seen a single person say "yay forced births! No more dead babies" I've only seen people clarify that they are pro choice because people get the wrong idea.

[–]BitlifeOffical_ -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Lol then you clearly haven't been on this subreddit. Theres even a whole subreddit celebrating RoeVWade being overturned.

[–]Ferbuggity 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are sexist AF.

[–]Luchadorgreen 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You got to enjoy decades of bodily autonomy while every week in your nearest hospital infant boys were having their genitals flayed for no reason, while you slept soundly. We never got a break from it, and probably never will. Now do you understand why we’re mad?

[–]ImplodedPotatoSalad 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you understand, that tuis thread is not about female problems with roe vs wade? Womens issues are for them to solve. Not our problem.

[–]Ferbuggity 23 points24 points25 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Makes a thread about a dead baby into an argument for feminism. Any chance to push the propaganda huh. gj

[+]BitlifeOffical_ -20 points-19 points-18 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I made that comment because this dude used the "my body my choice" in regard of abortion.

[–]TextDependent6779 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

no penis no opinion! let's stop letting mothers circumcise their boys.

[+]BitlifeOffical_ -8 points-7 points-6 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

So then father's can decide that? Lol no uterus no opinion. Stop letting men decide whether we abort or not.

[–]ImplodedPotatoSalad 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Only person that can decide is the child in question, after they grow up enugh to know what exactly they are getting themselves into.

[–]TextDependent6779 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Stop letting men decide whether we abort or not.

I'm trying. now women are demanding that i must help them.

So then father's can decide that?

wait, so then a mother can decide if her daughter gets an abortion? yeah, that's a stupid question. can we leave other people's bodies alone?

but also, haven't you complained about us comparing abortion to war? now you're comparing MGM to abortion?

[–]BitlifeOffical_ 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Lmfao you went through my post history. I only compared the two cause somebody else did. Other than that I agree with stop having other people control our bodies. At the end of the day it doesn't effect them.

[–]TextDependent6779 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

iirc, someone else used a saying typically associated with abortions. they did not make a direct comparison. it was you who made the direct comparison.

as for going through your post history? it's pretty typical for me if I've got time. not because i look for dirt on others, but because i want to understand the mindset someone else is in when entering a discussion/making a response. this doesn't always work (no posts correlating with political stances), but it has proven helpful before. it also helps me weed out the super obvious trolls where there's no chance of them having any intention of good faith.

[–]BitlifeOffical_ 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They used the my body my choice line. We all know what they were referring to. also I can assure I'm no troll. Been around for close to 2 years.

[–]Luchadorgreen 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

You literally don’t have to do most of that.

[–]BitlifeOffical_ 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

Yes you do lol that's the process of raising a kid you are forced to keep

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

And if you don’t risk having a kid?

[–]BitlifeOffical_ 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

? I don't understand

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Celibacy works wonders for unplanned pregnancies.

[–]BitlifeOffical_ 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

What? You expect people to just stop completely just cause they don't want a kid 💀💀

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

You’re forgetting about toys and hands.

[–]BitlifeOffical_ 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

🤦‍♀️

[–]plainwalk 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's exactly what feminists tell men when financial abortions are discussed. "Keep it in your pants if you don't want to be a father." 💀💀💀

[–]Luchadorgreen 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Adoption is a thing

[–]BitlifeOffical_ 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

And? Are we supposed to just carry that fetus for 9 months then just birth it just like that? Most kids who go through the foster system experience legit hell. There are over 400K kids in the system. It's not like you give a kid up for adoption and they are immediately welcomed into a loving family. There's a reason why there are so many kids in the system. Plus the adoption system is setting up kids for failure. Adoption is expensive.

[–]Luchadorgreen 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You compared circumcision, which babies have no choice in, to carrying a child to term and raising it to adulthood, the latter of which is a choice. In fact, in the vast majority of cases the mother had some hand in her becoming pregnant. Rape is the exception. Meanwhile, no child ever chooses the situation they are in when they are being forcibly circumcised. These issues are not comparable.

[–]BitlifeOffical_ 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It should be a choice but it isn't. Otherwise pro lifers wouldnt exist. RoeVWade has just been overturned and abortion is now illegal in Texas. Now women are forced to keep that kid they don't want. They are very well comparable. The og comment used the "my body my choice"

[–]Luchadorgreen 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Now that it affects women, all of a sudden you’re vocal about bodily autonomy.

[–]BitlifeOffical_ -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Um what? You're not understanding. My point is: if men might to stop getting their "genitals flayed" then women should stop being forced to carry something they don't want. My body, my choice. Exactly.

[–]ShaidarHaran2[S] 127 points128 points129 points 4 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

Could it be the needless pain or blood loss, I wonder?

The world truly sucks, we see needless circumcision deaths every year and it's always weird or niche to care, though it seems like a much larger movement now than ten years ago.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points16 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They said medical pre-existing condition. Non MDs should not be doing surgery.

[+]teejay89656 -157 points-156 points-155 points 4 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

No need to wonder. It obviously wasn’t circumcision that killed him

[–]SnooPets2522 63 points64 points65 points 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

If it was a girl you would say the opposite

[+]teejay89656 -60 points-59 points-58 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Doubt you would bet money that it was circumcision.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

I’d bet everything in my debt account.

[–]teejay89656 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

According to google over 10 years there were 200 recorded deaths among about 10,000,000 who underwent circumcision. And always because some pre existing condition. So it happens, but we can say some random baby probably didn’t die from circumcision.

And then you have stuff like this…

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/science/benefits-of-circumcision-outweigh-risks-pediatric-group-says.html

So you’d very likely be broke

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe you should get an article everyone can read.

Also, those “benefits” can be very easily debunked.

[–]teejay89656 -5 points-4 points-3 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

No you wouldn’t. I have literally never heard of death by circumcision in 1st world countries

[–]TextDependent6779 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

which somehow means it doesn't happen?

[–]teejay89656 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It means you definitely don’t know that’s what happened in this case like everyone’s acting and statistically that’s probably not what happened sans more information

[–]TextDependent6779 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

which somehow means you definitely do know that's not what happened like you're acting?

[–]plainwalk 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nationalpost.com/health/ontario-newborn-bleeds-to-death-after-family-doctor-persuades-parents-to-get-him-circumcised/wcm/9227263e-5d3f-40fa-8918-97cbe1d66173/amp/

Now you have.

[–]teejay89656 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

According to google over 10 years there were 200 recorded deaths among about 10,000,000 who underwent circumcision. And always because some pre existing condition. So it happens, but we can say some random baby probably didn’t die from circumcision.

And then you have stuff like this…

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/science/benefits-of-circumcision-outweigh-risks-pediatric-group-says.html

It’s just not the atrocity and isn’t as clear this sub makes it out to be I think. The response this sub has shown me over my comment when they have no reason to believe otherwise makes it seem like it’s just another thing where people have just become tribalistic and partisan

[–]AmputatorBot 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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Maybe check out the canonical page instead: https://nationalpost.com/health/ontario-newborn-bleeds-to-death-after-family-doctor-persuades-parents-to-get-him-circumcised


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[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

117 deaths a year. That’s just in America, imagine globally.

[–]teejay89656 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Did you read the article

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Blame shifting. Had they not cut his penis at all, he’d still be alive.

[–]teejay89656 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Every operation that’s ever happened

[–]Zephyr9865 77 points78 points79 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Are you mentally disabled?

[+]teejay89656 -109 points-108 points-107 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol

[–]No_Cut6590 51 points52 points53 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Clown

[–]Awkward-Push136 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Hey bud, you forgot your /s

[–]teejay89656 -5 points-4 points-3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

No I didn’t buddy. I would bet money it wasn’t if we could ask the doctor. Doubt you woild

[–]Awkward-Push136 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Hmm yes lets ask the doctor himself and not anyone else whether or not he played a part in the death of the child. Lets ask if the surgery had not been performed, what were the odds the baby would have survived? And what preexisting condition did the baby have exactly? If the health complications were so potentially severe an issue, why would they need to perform a circumcision? If the issue did not call for circumcision like in the case of conditions like phimosis, Why go through with an operation that is effectively cosmetic on a child that has a such a high chance of mortality?

[–]dumwitxh 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it wasn't. The same as a gun shot doesn't kill a person.

The wound, pain and bleeding did, caused by circumcision

[–]Thevoidawaits_u 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No one knows yet

[+]WaitingToBeTriggered -6 points-5 points-4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

NO ONE CARES ABOUT A SINGLE VIOLIN

[–]ZebastianJohanzen 105 points106 points107 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It was the pre-existing medical condition, which was presumably being born with a penis. Typical example of psychopathy and narcissism, evade, avoid, dodge, deny and shift the blame.

[–]ShaidarHaran2[S] 95 points96 points97 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

"He died of bleeding issues" oh was the issue that you cut a baby with a fucking scalpel?

[–]ZebastianJohanzen 20 points21 points22 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't think it said he bled out in the article, but that's a most likely possibility.

[–]ShaidarHaran2[S] 40 points41 points42 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm being more general, whenever it's bleeding or cardiac arrest or shock they say it like cutting an otherwise alive baby with a knife wasn't part of it.

[–]ZebastianJohanzen 28 points29 points30 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

True that. Always, some vague variation on, "No, nothing to do with the hatchet hefting half-wit happily hacking away at his penis. No, nothing to do with the malevolent miscreant monkey mutilating his member."

[–]LettuceBeGrateful 35 points36 points37 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Another baby gone due to a completely unnecessary genital mutilation. Fucking barbaric.

[+]StanleyMilgramsGhost -38 points-37 points-36 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Read the article. Nobody mutilated anyone, this is about a circumcision.

[–]Luchadorgreen 32 points33 points34 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Ah, so a mutilation

[+]SamClemens82 -40 points-39 points-38 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

More like a hygiene decision.

[–]QuintusVS 27 points28 points29 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Infant circumcision is male genital mutilation.

[–]IngoTheGreat 22 points23 points24 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

There is no convincing evidence that circumcision is useful or necessary in terms of prevention or hygiene.

Royal Dutch Medical Association, 2010 (PDF)

Basic genital hygiene isn't difficult.

[+]SamClemens82 -33 points-32 points-31 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

😂 keep telling yourself that.

[–]IngoTheGreat 21 points22 points23 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The majority of men in the world are intact, and don't have a lot of trouble keeping themselves clean. Do you struggle to brush your teeth?

[–]Luchadorgreen 14 points15 points16 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude probably smells terrible

[–]ZidaneLoire 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't get this argument. Being uncut, the procedure to wash your penis is simply pull the foreskin back during shower, rub soap, rinse, put it back. I never had any sort of infection and it never smells bad.

What kind of state is your dick in that you require removing the skin to be able to be hygienic ? Do you shower once a fortnight ? See that's the only reasoning i could understand cutting your dick off for hygiene, which is why they did it in the old times and justified as such.

Yet almost everyone has access to water and soap nowadays. Your teeth also need daily hygiene and you don't yank them off to prevent cativies. You wash them. That's how hygiene works!

I mean of course, you never had a say. Someone did it for you and now you try to justify it.

[–]No-Satisfaction-2320 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you don't have water, that is. You're probably have shit hygiene 😂

[–]TwinSong 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Water. You know, wash things?

[–]LettuceBeGrateful 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Unnecessary genital surgeries on patients who can't consent are genital mutilation.

[–]TwinSong 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Same thing different language. It's still genital mutilation.

[–]rabel111 15 points16 points17 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Another child murder committed by religious fanatics who think their beliefs should be written indelibly on the bodies of mutilated babies.

[–]omegaphallic -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

This sort of pitch won't convince them to end the practice. I find it as sad & heart breaking as you, but if you just insult their entire religion, they will just shrug it off as anti Semitism. Instead I suggest more diplomatic approach.

[–]Awkward-Push136 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay, counter pitch? What sort of religious diplomacy do you have in mind to combat something so embedded in the jewish faith?

[–]rabel111 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The acid test (reality) shows that advocates of circumcision (not just jewish people, although your focus on that group is concerning) have not responded to reason, evidence, science and ethical argument. What makes you think a softly/softly approach wil suddenly start working.

People who mutilate babies genitals are beasts and pedophiles, and should be called out for their barbaric acts of brutality on the most vulnerable in our community.

[–]omegaphallic -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Good luck changing hearts and minds. I'm Canadian and circumcision is increasingly rare among the none Jewish population.

[–]rabel111 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

When hearts are hardened by self righteous bigotry, and minds are deaf to truths, when the avoidable trauma and mortality associated with surgical butchery is swept away and buried with the tiny bodies of baby boys, I'm not inteerested in winning hearts and minds, but in saving lives.

[–]DirtyPartyMan 68 points69 points70 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

So we have Murder as a result of Genital Mutilation.

What did it? A Botched Job or was the wound infected by the one doing the procedure because they put their mouths on the boys penis?

[–]ShaidarHaran2[S] 50 points51 points52 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Apparently you can usually get away with murder if you were trying to circumcise a child, even if you killed him screaming with nothing but olive oil and scissors

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-21374643

[–]matrixislife 22 points23 points24 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

He died of blood loss later on.
Doesn't change the fact that this should never have been done, and the nurse who did it should have been jailed.

[–]18Apollo18 25 points26 points27 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If you stab somebody and leave them to bleed out you wouldn't say they died of blood loss

You'd say they were murdered by stabbing

[–]matrixislife 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There's a strong case for that, especially as the parents were concerned about blood loss and all she said was change the dressing.

I really hope the Inland Revenue are looking at her, because:

The jury was told that Adeleye was paid £100 to do the operation and that she had done "more than 1,000" circumcision operations without incident.

That would be £100k, presumably in undeclared income.

[–]Captain_Khan 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends on who you ask. If it's a forensic pathologist, the person died from exsanguination due to what appears may have been a wound caused by stabbing. Only the justice system can determine if it was murder.

[–]EconomySurround7023 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ketubot 11B will tell you that raping a child under 3 isn't bad and that her virginity will return just as the tears flow. They don't care about young kids.
It's in their own books

[+]StanleyMilgramsGhost -40 points-39 points-38 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

This was a circumcision, just read the article. There wasnt an attempt to mutilate anyone. Its not clear what the cause is.

[–]18Apollo18 21 points22 points23 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Circumcision is genital mutilation so yes there was

[–]CanComplex8695 20 points21 points22 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Infant circumcision is literally genital mutilation.

[+]StanleyMilgramsGhost -19 points-18 points-17 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

That is incorrect.

[–]Greg_W_Allan 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What a well reasoned and researched response.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The sarcasm is strong with this one.

[–]TextDependent6779 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

mutilation: "an act or instance of destroying, removing, or severely damaging a limb or other body part of a person."

huh, that certainly sounds like what happened? what actually happened, people were thinking too much about the child's future sex life to think about his safety?

it most certainly is mutilation, and honestly, just super creepy.

side note: looking up mutilation and all the top results are about FGM, not even normal mutilation. you know, the thing men are likely to suffer from in war?

[–]Fearless-File-3625 22 points23 points24 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Circumcision is mutilation

[–]DirtyPartyMan 19 points20 points21 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

By that logic there wasn’t intent to kill a baby either. But both happen. With my medical background I’ve seen botched circumcisions even with the best intentions.

My Point: This is not a Necessary Surgery. It certainly qualifies as Child Endangerment when compared to other offenses. It needs to stop.

[–]RavynArcadia 29 points30 points31 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I really wish this would be banned everywhere outside of it being a medical necessity. Still bitter mine was taken away over religious reasons.

[+]UpDynamo -10 points-9 points-8 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

This is a tough one right? From the article it sounds like this mohel did all he could and was qualified to do, and it still couldn't stop the backlash of the circumcision.

I feel bad for the child, but I feel bad for that man too who was just trying to do a good job for his faith. I lament that his faith compelled him to perform this outdated ritual.

[–]ShaidarHaran2[S] 14 points15 points16 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Dude no one compelled him to be in the dick cutting business and if they did he could have left, zero sympathy for the adults involved in it going wrong, just the poor kid who never got to grow up for a choice that was not his.

[–]UpDynamo -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No one compelled him?

He was likely born into a family of faith, and indoctrinated from a young age, as is tradition in religions. Then he opted in to the religion, subjecting himself to its chain of command.

I think you might not see the whole picture here. This man has been naught but compelled from a young age.

[–]QuintusVS 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry but he gets no sympathy from me. Religion is no excuse to continue barbaric rituals of mutilation. No matter how pure your intentions might be.

[–]Libidomy94 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fucking barbaric.

[–]Shadowdragon409 19 points20 points21 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Just yesterday I was arguing with a woman who genuinely believed that circumcision was done with anesthetic, healthy, and hygienic, and that comparing it to FGM was inappropriate. It's depressing how widespread those beliefs are.

She even tried to make the argument that because men can still orgasm, it's perfectly ok to perform.

[–]IngoTheGreat 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

She even tried to make the argument that because men can still orgasm, it's perfectly ok to perform.

Hm.

“I have experienced orgasm. Women who think they have a problematic sex life because of the circumcision should go see a doctor instead of blaming the practice. I have only sweet memories attached to the day when I was taken for the procedure. My mother and I bonded, the same way my daughter and I did when she was circumcised,” she said, questioning the veracity of the few women who are “pointing fingers at the 1,400-year-old practice”.

“They lack the knowledge of sexual function. What they need is a therapist,” she added.

Shelar, 2017

Sounds a little familiar...

[–]ShaidarHaran2[S] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ayaan Hirsi Ali also experienced FGM and also said she was able to, and is also against both.

[–]ShaidarHaran2[S] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the reality circumcision defenders are just washing away. The global reality isn't that FGM is always performed in barbaric huts while MGM is always in a clean clinical setting, the global reality is that circumcisions often take place in dirty, brutal settings, South Africa has already killed its dozens a year and that's just the currently counted, there exist videos of kids being cut in dirty open streets in Pakistan while they're screaming, babies having it burned off in the arab world, it's a mess out there.

[–]omegaphallic 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Many circumsized women can still cum. The problem is folks go off emotions, not knowledge on circumcision, most folks don't know enough about the subject.

[+]Ferbuggity -9 points-8 points-7 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Are you seriously posting in support of female circumcision?

[–]omegaphallic 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

LMFAO no, just stating a fact. Circumcision have various levels starting with symbolic cut, no parts removed, to extreme forms where the sex organs are just wrecked. This is true of circumsicion for both men & women.

[–]Ferbuggity 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So.. what is your point? That some minor cutting of a child's genitals is okay?

[–]IngoTheGreat 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They were noting that even if a person subjected to forced genital cutting can still have an orgasm, that doesn't make what was done to them okay, regardless of their sex. That was their point; u/omegaphallic was not defending FGM; their comment was in reference to another post. It's contextual.

[–]omegaphallic -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually allowing a minor largely symbolic cut is the price for increased compliance with future laws against none symbollic circumcision than that is a deal I'm willing to make that compromise. Always keep your eyes on the big prize, making sure children get to grow up with intact genials, not to completely kill a thousands of years old tradition that gives folks a sense of connection to their heritage. Treating Judaism as the enemy will get us no where, but responsible compromises will help us make progress. Real Politics.

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]iainmf[M] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Your post was removed due to rule 6:

We don't allow links to personal twitter accounts. Also the video is NSFW.

[–]EconomySurround7023 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The Jewish holy books actually state that you cannot rape a girl under 3. That as the tears come, so to does the virginity return. I'm not making this shit up.
Ketubot 11b. Read that shit

[–]Magical-Hummus 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Baby got murdered.

[–]aigars2 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah sorry baby boy there is a x % chance we murder you just because reasons

[–]xtenbombx 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I was once told FGM is more brutal than circumcision. Ffs.

[–]CanComplex8695 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Both are brutal and potentially deadly. MGM is a bigger problem because of how much more prevalent and socially accepted it is compared to FGM.

[–]gnarlin 12 points13 points14 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Both are stupid and evil and both should be banned world wide. If we really look into it maybe one is slightly more evil than the other.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Both are designed to reduce sensitivity. One of them removes functionality (not sure what happens on the female side of things). And both are done without the consent of the child. Seems pretty equal to me.

[–]gnarlin 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

My point was that I don't give a shit if one is slightly more evil than the other or equally evil but rather that since both are evil they should both be banned. Squabbling about whether mutilating boys or girls is more evil is a distraction from fighting to ban mutilation of children in general. Some ways of torturing people are more evil than others. Which tortures should we ban? Please, by all means, argue incessantly on the internet about it while people continue to be tortured. Do you get my drift?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. I agree completely.

[–]Ahseid 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

im proud to say that both of my sons are intact

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points20 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Are they pressing murder charges?

[–]CanComplex8695 16 points17 points18 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Unfortunately, torturing and killing a male child is permissible, just as long as it involves mutilating his genitals.

[–]Halafax 24 points25 points26 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The parents are complicit and this happened in Israel, so no one will be held accountable for baby murder:pointless cosmetic surgery edition.

[–]Flowersfallweedsgrow 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

why does a god need foreskins again?

[–]My_name_sucks64564 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

mybodymychoice

[–]The-Prim-Reaper 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Since having children, especially one only 3 months old, these stories fuck me up way harder than ever before.

It's sad that, because I had girls, it was de facto assumed we would never do something this messed up to them. The fact that I would have even had to field the question about it had they been boys turns my stomach.

[–]aigars2 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We read every month that a boy has died due to genital mutilation and no one seems to be bothered

[–]grandpa_stalin_37 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

As an Israeli it may be controversial in my country but I think circumcision is one of the most vile disgusting and fucked up things there are. An old religious man cuts a part of your penis with your family around you celebrating. It so normalized here but I think it's madness

[–]TwinSong 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The procedure is barbaric. I'd never allow this to happen to my son if I had one, unless medically unavoidable and then done by a surgeon.

[–]gnarlin -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

The only people to deliberately cut into babies genitals without an urgent medical need to do so are religious people. Religion kills babies. Some religions are less dangerous than others, sure but they're all magical thinking brain viruses that make people do absolutely fucking evil shit for no good reason, like cutting the genitals of babies, male and female.

[+]omegaphallic -10 points-9 points-8 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Are we now using the tragedies caused by circumcision to trash all religious people? How many do you think will be convinced by this arguement?

[–]Ferbuggity 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

How many do you think won't be.

[–]omegaphallic -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Almost all of them.

[–]Ferbuggity 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Tragic.

[–]ImplodedPotatoSalad -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Religion is the worst form of hate speech, by definition. And should be eliminated from normal society, with extreme.prejudice and lethal force.

[–]omegaphallic 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You literally just engaged in hate speech, including pushing for multiple genocides. Shit like this gives atheists a bad name and shows they can just be ss fanatical as anyone else.

[–]ImplodedPotatoSalad -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

So, basically what religions did and do to non-belivers, for last few thousands of years? Id say thats just an equal response, really. In my country, religious politicians openly state that non-belivers and LGBT are not people, and not human beings, with church as far as the pope, openly accepting this.

Cute. What did you do, good religious one, to stop such people? Nothing? Then you are an enabler.

[–]omegaphallic 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

That is no reflective of all religions and religious folks.

[–]ImplodedPotatoSalad -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Same god, same guilt.

[–]omegaphallic 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No

[+]thetolerator98 -24 points-23 points-22 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Not killed by the procedure, it's attributed to a pre-existing condition. Should have rescheduled at the least.

[–]QuintusVS 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

One should not reschedule infant genital mutilation. One should cancel that shit and be ashamed for making an appointment in the first place.

[+]thetolerator98 -13 points-12 points-11 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

One could argue yours is a bigoted response

[–]TextDependent6779 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

one could argue mutilating a person is a trashy thing to do.

[–]No-Satisfaction-2320 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Being anti mutilation is bigoted now? lol

[–]thetolerator98 -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Considering this story is about a religious tradition your response is bigoted. Plus, more than 99%+ of men circumcised would not agree they were multilated

[–]TwinSong 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm Jewish and consider circumcision barbaric

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

The condition in question being born male.

[+]thetolerator98 -10 points-9 points-8 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

If you read the article you'll find that was not the contributing condition

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

And if they hadn’t split his penis open?

[–]thetolerator98 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Capt. Obvious has entered the building

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I have trouble with sarcasm sometimes, so I apologize if I’m somewhat slow on the uptake.

What exactly are you saying?

[–]thetolerator98 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

A reading of the article makes it clear the circumcision was performed when the baby lost consciousness, but they attributed the reaction and death to another underlying condition that did not include being a male.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So the circumcision killed him.

[–]ShwarmaMusic -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"the doctors at Holon’s Wolfson Hospital were able to confirm that the boy’s life-threatening condition had been caused not by the circumcision itself, but by a preexisting medical condition."

[+]Boxisteph -6 points-5 points-4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's so sad.

No woman is happy about this. Its a religion problem and the child's right to choose its religion and permanent body changes for it.

[+]Blackfire12498 -14 points-13 points-12 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Here's reddits strange obsession with baby foreskin again.

[–]IngoTheGreat 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If they were cutting babies' ears off, would you have to be "obsessed with baby ears" if you spoke out against it?

We didn't pick the body part to be amputated.

[–]TwinSong 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's genital mutilation.

[+]SamClemens82 -31 points-30 points-29 points 4 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

I’d still take the risk. Uncut is disgusting.

[–]QuintusVS 15 points16 points17 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You're disgusting.

[–]Greg_W_Allan 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you are so keen on inflicting pain on the genitals of infants it's reasonable to consider you a sadistic paedophile.

[–]ImplodedPotatoSalad 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Probably a woman.

[–]BloodyUserOfNames 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Your thoughts are disgusting

[–]ShaidarHaran2[S] 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The body of corpses grows every year on this disgusting thought

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I argue the opposite.

[–]No-Satisfaction-2320 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure, don't force it on others though.

[–]IngoTheGreat 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Why?

[+]SamClemens82 -9 points-8 points-7 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Any of these reasons are valid. I thank god every day that my penis doesn’t look like an anteaters snout. https://thoughtcatalog.com/lorenzo-jensen-iii/2016/10/cut-or-uncut-54-women-reveal-which-sort-of-penis-they-prefer/

[–]IngoTheGreat 15 points16 points17 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

From your own link

“Only daft idiots would think a penis missing part of itself is actually better. I had sex with a circumcised man, and it was the worst sex of my life. It hurt, his penis was rough, and circumcision scars are extremely ugly.

My husband is uncircumcised and I love his penis exactly the way it is. It feels 100x better than the circumcised penis, and he is so much more sensitive to the touch. I love it.”

That's valid, then, by your own admission. Oops.

[–]Greg_W_Allan 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

A number of women have told me sex with a circumcised man feels like doing it with sandpaper.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I can see why. Just jacking off feels like a piece of wood. Can’t imagine how it feels on the other end.

[–]ImplodedPotatoSalad 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

As if female preference had any value, lmao. Give them no choice, problem solved.

[–]SamClemens82 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Then consider that gay males and trans females also consider head cheese disgusting.

[–]ImplodedPotatoSalad 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You know, you dont get dick cheese from not being cut. You get it from not washing your dick properly. Protip: its easy to wash your dick.

Source: any uncut guy that washes his dick properly.

Edit: btw - im bisexual. Had my share of pussies as well as dicks. The only time I had to stop because of cheese, was because SHE wasnt washing her cunt properly. Surprise, women get cheesy down there too if not keeping hygiene. Maybe we should cut the labia off, as a routine, to help with that?

Because apparently, for you its ok to do that to men, for this exact reason...so lets reverse the gender and see your reaction :V

[–]TwinSong 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Genitals are weird looking. Just how it is.

[–]TwinSong 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ever heard of a thing called water? It's possible to wash under there, no cutting off bits required.

[–]RedLion40 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I hope everyone that was involved burns in hell for all eternity. Over 200 young boys lose their lives every year in America alone due to this unnecessary procedure. It's a violation of so many rights I can't even list them here. I could have been that child. It shows me that some parents have no parental instincts at all.

[–]TurboChunk16 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Seems he got lucky, dying so quick—raþer þan living an inevitably miserable life. I envy him.

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