Why is TRP political?

jerryandjerrysizzler · 2014-07-21T19:23:57+00:00

Because TRP is a philosophy, and political discourse is at its heart philosophical - it's a battle of theories and values.

TRP is nothing revolutionary, the idea that a man should be a masculine and a woman should be feminine and the hierarchial (e.g. captain-first mate relationship) nature of the family is a bedrock of modern conservativism.

We_Are_Legion · 2014-07-21T19:57:22+00:00

So how did it come to be that this advice got blended with anti-feminism, decrying the crumbling western society, opinions about women in the sciences, the military, and politics, and so many other controversial ideologies?

I had this same thought while reading the replies to my discussion and evilfuckingsociopath's discussion about game. Other than needing to place blame to create an "us vs. them" mentality I can't think of any other reason for it.

I do believe some of the changes in society TRP mentions have impacted certain aspects of relationships and marriage but that's life. Things change, usually for the better. Maybe some people need to have reasons given to them explaining why things aren't how they expected them to be.

[deleted] · 2014-07-22T00:22:45+00:00

[permanently deleted]

biscotti_karate · 2014-07-21T20:11:41+00:00

You have to cobble something together to silence any opposition that recognizes the ever so frequent misogynistic and sexist viewpoints that your community indoctrinates its members with. When a woman says something against being referred to sub-humanly as a 'plate' or another man mentions the abusive emotional manipulation involved in Dread Game, you need an ace up your sleeve to alienate them and smother their protests. Crying out about the Fall of Western Culture and the rise of Our Supreme Feminist Rulers is the perfect boogeyman for you to assure your followers and yourself that straight white males are the true oppressed group in Western society.

Rangerbear · 2014-07-21T20:42:22+00:00

Trp doesn't exist in a reddit vacuum, it arose from the manosphere which largely arose from the HBD-o-sphere. It was always political, go read the archives of heartiste and other manosphere blogs from the heyday.

Things got this way between the sexes because of POLITICS, the VAWA, no fault divorce, skewed family courts, affirmative action, political feminism, feminism in the schools, the EEOC, in the workplace, sensitivity training in work and college, the moral panic about rape and harassment. All of these things contribute to the issues between the sexes that lead men to seek the ideas in game, pua and the red pill.

Edit: here are two charts of the Dark Enlightenment and the Neoreaction, Roissy (heartiste) was in Steve Sailer's original blogroll, which was basically the genesis of the HBD and neo reactionary spheres

http://lumineboreali.net/threads/neoreaction-and-dark-enlightenment.80/ < "sex realism" on this chart=the red pill

http://radishmag.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/2-8-visualizing-neoreaction.jpg?w=1024&h=684

mezzozy · 2014-07-21T22:36:34+00:00

Because a lot of people who post in TRP are bitter and jaded, sometimes coming out of a relationship or scarred from past experiences (just like anyone; guy or girl fresh from getting dumped). A lot of these guys say some pretty misogynistic things (turning it political) which are really just knee-jerk reactions to their situation.

worktimeterpin · 2014-07-22T01:30:45+00:00

So how did it come to be that this advice got blended with anti-feminism, decrying the crumbling western society, opinions about women in the sciences, the military, and politics, and so many other controversial ideologies?

Because people have opinions and mods at that subreddit allow such discussions.

lev21pirate · 2014-07-21T19:05:25+00:00

"man is by nature a political animal" -Aristotle, Politics.

an_absolute_rose · 2014-07-21T20:41:36+00:00

I hate the MRA side of TRP and wish it was removed. I agree with many things involved with MRA but part of the red pill is swallowing the fact that we are given the short straw and adjusting to take advantage of the system to become happy. MRA are consistently unhappy and are whiners. Thew is no room for whining if you're a man. Nobody respects a whiny man and no woman wants to fuck one.

GayLubeOil · 2014-07-22T02:22:07+00:00

IIf you think be masculine and dont worship women isnt going to piss off modern feminists, then I have some bad news for you.

totes_meta_bot · 2014-07-22T02:30:44+00:00

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[deleted] · 2014-07-22T08:08:18+00:00

That narrative is what holds the whole thing together and what seperates it from plain old PUA, in order to take a "red pill" to begin with, there has to be a "matrix" to escape from.

It doesen't start with game advice and turn into antifeminism, it starts with antifeminism and then turns to game as the means to cope with the horror of living in a post feminist world.

Also it adds an angle to peoples stories and field reports, since going out on a friday night and banging some girl isn't on the whole that interesting a story. Going out and banging some girls in defiance of the white knights, the feminists, "mainstream society" ect- and then returning to share that hard-won knowledge with other brave travellers, thats an exciting personal narrative.

xxruruxx · 2014-07-21T20:58:42+00:00

[deleted]

2014-07-21T21:21:50+00:00

[deleted]

We_Are_Legion · 2014-07-21T21:03:24+00:00

Because Roissy's blog is political, and most TRPers have picked up their entire philosophy (and their entire vocabulary) directly from Roissy's blog.

We_Are_Legion · 2014-07-21T22:24:19+00:00

~~OK, since no other RPer has replied, I'll take a shot.~~ (EDIT: at time of starting) also, please don't mind the english sentence structure and paragraphing.

Hmm... I think the crux of the answer to this issue can be summed up via this;

This and other advice TRP offers could be considered valuable and prudent (it's not exactly my speed, but that's beside the point), and nobody would really have much of a problem with it.

The thing is... we do not really have any concern with what you do or do not have a problem with. One of the reasons the manosphere ever started was to discuss necessary things that have become no longer politically correct to discuss.

The methods and ideas RP developed are there because we deem them useful to be there. The "Red Pill" is simply a set of controversial, but true, set of ideas that are advantageous for every man to know about in the current market.

But how did these set of beliefs and ideas and the will to consider them ever become such a burning need at all? What was wrong with the old BP mentality?

Simple. We'll show you. We show you that the market as it existed, is simply not there anymore for many people. That people have false idealized expectations of the game born out of romantic illusions that mean they aren't prudent players anymore. The risks of playing fair have become much higher than the rewards. To communicate that finding, and convince people of the need to change tactics, is just as essential in making informed decisions about your goals as knowing exactly how to pull them off.

The Red Pill,, by nature, is reactionary to the negative effects of feminism, and the flux it has introduced in the market. The market has changed, and TRP is the most accurate model of how it has changed. People there may get emotional and bitch and whine about what they hear, and how much it explains their experiences perfectly. And that's ok. TRP's stance has always been that it is going to tolerate that. In the end, it is about motivating and guiding self-improvement. But change does not happen overnight. And motivation to carry through with any broad goal is like... taking a bath. You must remind yourself both how and why every day.

The people going through the anger stages, who are undergoing the same transformation many older people(a lot of whom have left) did before success are going to be bitter and angry. They feel like they've been cheated, AND MANY OF THEM HAVE BEEN CHEATED, make no mistake. There are a lot of deeply emotionally wounded men in red pill, who have no other avenue of meaningful help in the area(being a man) where they need it. No other place in the place in the world to speak to like-minded men without repressing themselves and paying lip-service to PC mores and holding in pain(therapy isn't going to help). As much as you might hate the mods, they have more compassion for these outcasts, than you do. They have compassion enough to let them honestly know how they went wrong, let them voice that anger that results. And then to give them information... tell them how it works, and what we've been working on, so that they can succeed in future. To tell them there is no shame in needing it nor using it. What men then do with that knowledge is upto them. Our role is merely to facilitate that discussion of sexual strategy and positive masculine identity.

There are dozens of mod posts about it. Nothing so explicit as stickies, that'd be an insult. But if you stick around, read mod/EC comments, you'll find literally dozens of comments and IRC convos that say the same. The Red Pill wasn't intended to get the traffic or the hate that it does, and the unprecedented influx of new people from BP reactionaries is lethally diluting the signal-to-noise ratio there, but we let it happen regardless. Out of compassion. Not any commitment to spreading a message or effecting change. And its one of the reasons we ban concern trolling about S/L ratio. We know what we're doing. /r/TheRedPill is for newbies to adjust now. And one of its main functions is to contain the anger at these revelations here, and allow it to naturally subside, so that outside, in the real world, these men can become prudent and mature(heh) puerarchs who can then go on to take advantage of the current system in full.

The Red Pill, and similarly named forums, is a launching point to the manosphere. It is a hub for newbies(introduction more like actually) and veterans, with a wildly varying signal to noise ratio at different times of the week and day. The main crux of conversation and theory happens elsewhere, in the many dozens of other sites. One small oversight community to /r/TheRedPill on reddit is /r/AlreadyRed. It has none of the things you lament, OP.

Lastly, the broad set of RP theories exist for the sake of information itself, and everyone there discourages activism of any sort. RP breeds puerarchs who take advantage of the system, and for that they need to understand. It is not encouraging the broken people who come to us to take up arms, nor does it exist to offer a conference of how to change things. The tone there is just harsh and blunt enough for people to understand, and that's it. No more.

The mods and ECs, and indeed, every other corner of the manosphere are very explicit about not turning into a movement. Its not that we disagree with MR, its just that they're too soft, but even they are pushing the limits of how hard you can get and still be taken with a modicum of seriousness(another point to laugh at feminism for). This means that we are absolutely unconcerned with the new status quo or interests of society. We give up. If this is the state of the world, we are going to run rampant on it. We have no illusions about changing the system. We seek to exploit it.

Activism on RP, for any political motive, will get you banned, or warned if unintentional. But thoughts that may or may not be political in nature are fair game to think about.

I hope this answers your question, OP. If not, ask away.

CallMeMrBadGuy · 2014-07-21T23:35:53+00:00

I view TRP by itself as actually apolitical. The really is no politics that come with TRp or that one needs to be successful in TRP. I dont believe in politics these days in general but if I had consider myself more leftish than anything. I think where TRP does become political is when TRP mentions it's detractors and the pernicious state of affairs it's said we're in. For TRP it's most ardent detractors are overwrought SJWs and Feminists and the current state we're said to be in the decline of former masculinity is often attributed to overextended feminism.

[deleted] · 2014-07-22T06:23:03+00:00

If you're against the status quo, you have two options:

become political
get destroyed

SirNemesis · 2014-07-22T18:59:12+00:00

TRP isn't just about attracting women. That's the original core, but it has also spread to having an RP outlook about other things. Essentially, the red pill is about seeing the actual truth, not the "blue pill" truth that elite society would have us believe. This can apply to politics just as well as attraction, and it isn't surprising that TRP is concerned with sociopolitical issues, especially those that are related to gender dynamics.

Also, there is nothing controversial about anti-feminism or decrying the crumbling of western society, or opinions about women in the sciences or military, unless you live in the intellectual well of Reddit. The only controversial thing there is opinions of women in politics.

StabbyPants · 2014-07-22T22:47:57+00:00

Because it opposes, or at least threatens the power of, feminism, which is political. It is therefore political.

[deleted] · 2014-07-24T10:45:35+00:00

I think it is not a TRP thing but a broader masculinity thing, as TRP is just an extreme subset of masculine culture.

I think because masculinity as such is political. One consistent theme all over the world is that stuff you would roughly call conservative or right-wing has a masculine "theme". It differs per country, in America it is more often an individualist masculine theme, while e.g. in Eastern Europe more often a nationalist, hence, more collective theme, but it is always there.

Seriously, this pattern is absolutey trackable everywhere I ever lived, you find more conservative voters in any country near motorbike clubs, boxing clubs, or shooting ranges - even when conservative policies may mean something different in different countries.

sh1v · 2014-07-25T08:50:16+00:00

So how did it come to be that this advice got blended with anti-feminism, decrying the crumbling western society, opinions about women in the sciences, the military, and politics, and so many other controversial ideologies?

Anti feminism was where you had a point, the rest is reaching. I think you are mistaking trends among the user base with an actual set policy among the mods or some shit.

TRP is anti feminist out of necessity, most of our ideas are in direct conflict with those of modern feminists and vice versa. SMV, hypergamy, the wall, alpha fux beta bux, pussy pass, and so on... merely observing these as trends without remarking on them in any way is already enough to arouse the ire of feminists. Going so far as to analyze them and act on them, well, that makes you a kind of archvillain. The ideas themselves are not political, but they make you a target or heel to various political groups.

This tends to weed out anyone who gives a shit about feminism from the onset, and that in turn just has a certain inevitable demographic effect. Sorry if that bothers you.

Full disclosure: I don't like women in the military. I'm fine with women in politics/science so long as they aren't constantly bitching about their victimhood and how there need to be more of them there and it's men/patriarchy's fault for holding them back and bla bla me me whine whine. I don't think western society is crumbling, quite the contrary.

assmunchinator · 2014-07-21T19:22:31+00:00

Rules for Posting:

2 Titles should be as neutral as possible

myfriendscantknow · 2014-07-22T04:27:04+00:00

So how did it come to be that this advice got blended with anti-feminism, decrying the crumbling western society, opinions about women in the sciences, the military, and politics, and so many other controversial ideologies?

Funny you wrote these in that specific order since one leads to another.

Anti-feminism: This should be pretty obvious, isn't it? Unless you're one of the special snowflakes who still thinks that modern feminism's only goal is gender equality, since that ship has already sailed(1975 in USA). Modern feminism moved on to better, bigger things, like grabbing as many privelieges as they can for women(which is of course the opposite of gender equality) while denying men as many privelieges as they can(which is of course the opposite of gender equality) and if you disagree you're a perpetrator of the rape culture.

"Decrying the crumbling western society": So have you ever wondered why modern feminism can get away with the shit it does(see above)? Because western society has become feminized. It developed a cult of the minority and cult of the victim. Note, this actually has nothing to do with feminist movement itself - it's just a by-product of the extremely high standards of living in the developed world. People used to fight for survival, now that survival is effortless they fight for stupid shit like saving Jamaican fruit bats, and go out of their way to find problems - and since actual problems are few and far between, they find the most minor, stupid shit and blow it out of proportion to the level of a crisis of the entire civilization. If you look at the so-called "developing" countries you won't find raging feminists or gay parades - they have real problems to worry about.

Which leads to your last point. I have nothing against women in the military - as long as they can hump 300lbs, take extremely crude grunt humor, not fuck around in a place full of alpha males who want to fuck them and not have periods which lowers their combat efficiency. I also don't care about women in the sciences, as long as they got into the sciences because of their talent and interest, not because of some retarded arbitrary quota set by the government. And don't get me started about politics.

cascadecombo · 2014-07-22T07:02:13+00:00

Since when is it political? Nothing is trying to be changed, it's about navigation, taking advantage of what people have available to get the best outcome from whatever situation they are in.

adrixshadow · 2014-07-22T12:42:51+00:00

You misunderstand one thing, red pillers can get a women, can build a relationship that last a lifetime.

BUT EVERYONE ELSE DOESN'T.

Not betas, not feminists.

All women have a ticking time bomb, once it goes of it's over.

Meanwhile betas are invisible to women, they do not compete, they have no incentives.

All of this happens while Muslims and Christian women are having children with no problems.

There is a huge amount of change that rewrites all previous values.

Change is chaos.

I doubt society can handle the strain.

Title	Why is TRP political?
Author	myfriendscantknow
Upvotes	16
Comments	131
Date	July 21, 2014 6:53 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2bbioq/why_is_trp_political/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-is-trp-political.285276 https://theredarchive.com/post/285276

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