CMV: Feminists who believe in equal rights shouldn't have to leave the term feminism because it's been hijacked. We should rename the people who support inequality under the guise of feminism.

adrixshadow · 2015-04-16T19:50:34+00:00

Equality that doesn't contain the MRAs also is not equality.

Feminism must burn completely.

ChaosRedux · 2015-04-16T10:14:29+00:00

But it's still the only well-established existing movement for gender equality.

Egalitarian?

Why should I let extremists who do not support equal rights hold hostage a title that has significant value? What have they done to deserve it?

Because that is not how language works. When a meaning of a word changes, you can't just stand there going, "No, no, it used to mean this!", you have to change with it. Feminism is technically about equality, but it generally goes about it women first, and both in practice and name excludes men, some women even saying them men cannot be feminists, only " allies". Some women ruined feminism, but those people are who the majority thinks about when they hear feminism, so they are what feminism means now.

There are words and systems that go about creating equality by addressing both genders, but feminists don't want to change the name. And I know it is a stupid argument to have, like the episode of South Park where two religions with exactly the same ideology go to war over the name, but I think it makes sense here for feminists to change. People suggested the change from feminism because real people felt uncomfortable and unrepresented, something a group of people fighting for equality should care about, but instead they brush off their feelings as unimportant and insist, "No seriously guys, feminism is the best name for a group of people fighting for men and women's rights equally. And ignore those loudly screaming people over there, they are not real feminists, let's call them something else."

sumant28 · 2015-04-16T07:24:31+00:00

Feminists do have equal rights. All rights are laid out in the constitution and apply equally to all people regardless of race or sex.

It's only when freshman college students start reading about communism and get brainwashed by Marxist feminist dialectic that they are suddenly deluded into thinking they don't have equal rights to others.

Until "feminists" realise this they are going to have to accept their victim based ideology creates nut jobs. Some are crazier than others but the shade of grey is largely irrelevant.

ChaosRedux · 2015-04-16T13:43:00+00:00

Feminist who believe in equal rights ~~doesn't exist. Otherwise they would call themselves egalitarian or humanist.~~ are heavily outnumbered by the radicals, that the current feminism movement are commonly regarded as for women only.

EDIT: painted too wide of a brush. There are some feminist out there who believe equal rights for both genders.

purple_lock · 2015-04-16T14:14:53+00:00

They are a fringe group of radicals.

If only.

No you know what, I applaud this. I would love to be proven that they really are just a tiny minority, and most Feminists are completely reasonable. I just don't believe that's the case.

The only common thread between every form of feminism is the belief that men and women should share equal political and social rights.

But what about the idea that women have it worse than men? That they're the "primary victims" of sexism in the world? I disagree with that, and it seems to be pretty central to most feminists I debate elsewhere.

exit_sandman · 2015-04-16T08:13:32+00:00

CMV: Feminists who believe in equal rights shouldn't have to leave the term feminism because it's been hijacked. We should rename the people who support inequality under the guise of feminism.

Bailey-motte-strategy ahoi!

Do you think it's productive to rebrand the most vocal and most influential of a movement because only the more phlegmatic (and probably even less numerous) segment of it conforms to an idealized perception of it, instead of just accepting that the movement is about what the less presentable segment says it is and that the ones who are majority-compatible are the outliers?

hippydipster · 2015-04-16T18:51:39+00:00

The only common thread between every form of feminism is the belief that men and women should share equal political and social rights

Ok, what rights are not equal between the two currently?

Also, what is a "social right"?

fiat_lux_ · 2015-04-16T23:25:20+00:00

You're just going to have to accept that identification at some level involves choice.

No matter how stupid you might think some other feminists are, they self-identify as such and if they misunderstood some core issues/ideals, then I honestly think it's a factor to consider (how easily such issues and ideals are misunderstood, misused, and abused).

This is something every group deals with, rpers, mras, bpers, feminists, progressives, conservatives, etc.

I'm curious: Is the label or name itself important to you?

ChaosRedux · 2015-04-16T12:03:18+00:00

Outside of academia and your own little Tumblr circles, no one really cares what Feminists call themselves. The fact is, your "movement" these days is so splintered and so rife with nonsense that we just don't care about you anymore. Rebranding yourself, sadly, isn't going to change that.

Forget gender bias against men, what about gems like these? Forget renaming yourselves, why don't you all just get together in a room and figure out what you stand for, first and then worry about what to call it?

Once you're done with that, you could, you know Do Something Useful. From Shirtgate to 'No Clapping, Please', modern, western Feminism has proved itself to be useless, polarizing, and not worth anyone's time except as a one-liner on a late-night TV show monologue.

No one cares anymore what overeducated, white, middle class women have to say about anything, such that we ever really did. All this bickering amongst yourselves is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

The fact is, you do nothing. You accomplish nothing. You continue to take credit for other women's hard work and dedication ("We got you the right to vote! You like voting, don't you?!") Sorry, you didn't build that.

You continue these long, ridiculous internet diatribes on privilege while seemingly blissfully unaware that if you have a computer and hours a day to blog about Amal Clooney's name you're pretty goddamned privileged! You're the absolute least self-aware demographic in the western world.

And you continue to talk about nonexistent wage gaps and your right to walk around topless while women in the third world suffer gang rape as legitimate legal punishment and acid attacks for learning to read. When Malala is no longer useful to you as a hashtag to gain you Twitter followers, you quickly forget that other countries even exist.

Can you even find Pakistan on a map?

It's not what you call yourselves. It's not how you view men. Your problems run much, much deeper than that and until you all recognize it and do something about it, no one cares if you call yourselves Feminists or The Angry, White, Rich Girl Circle Jerk Hour.

SirNemesis · 2015-04-16T15:04:57+00:00

The only common thread between every form of feminism is the belief that men and women should share equal political and social rights.

No it isn't. The common thread between every form of feminism is that it is advocacy for women. Whether that takes the form of advocating for equal rights or the form of advocating for more rights differs between strains of feminism, with the latter becoming the increasingly dominant strains of feminism.

SandtheB · 2015-04-16T08:05:49+00:00

This is what Christian Hoff Sommers believe's in An American Enterprise Video here

[deleted] · 2015-04-16T10:31:38+00:00

It would be cool if you could ACTUALLY reclaim it. Too bad the SJW-types have overwhelming support by the media because controversy bring clicks and "feminism" is a good way to protect "journalism" cliques and their shady business. And in Academia , it's the same , because it's a way to justify your position and silence criticism. Your personal good faith have no value if your voice is never heard.

Nothing good will come from modern "feminism" until there is a serious reform. And the socially powerful will do anything to stop any change. I may be for equality (of opportunity), but I can't identify as a feminist because now ,it's just a tool to browbeat the middle lower class as upper middle class call them "privilegied".

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2015-04-16T16:27:23+00:00

You can't pretend 120 years of "feminism" didn't happen because you don't want to be associated with it.

videogamesfan · 2015-04-16T14:50:14+00:00

I agree with you, feminism is good, i am a moderate feminist, but i think that radical feminist are feminist too. I think that talking about differents kinds of feminism is better than triying to use the word (feminism)only for feminism that we like.

ThorLives · 2015-04-16T18:29:04+00:00

I've heard the phrase "gynocentric feminist" vs "equality feminist" used before to distinguish between the two camps. Though, it's pretty rare to hear the distinction. I think I've only heard it at www.feministcritics.org/blog/

DevilishRogue · 2015-04-16T21:43:02+00:00

Female supremacists, sexists, bigots, etc. all invoke the label of "feminist" to legitimize their stances. This has happened so much that the label of "feminist" has become tarnished. Labelling them as the hypocrites they are doesn't remove the tarnish they have already caused and there is still the No True Feminist issue. As such, it would be easier for you to say you are an equality activist, egalitarian, or supporter of human rights and abandon the tarnished brand of feminism than it would be to reclaim it by relabelling them.

If you absolutely, positively has to reclaim the term "feminist", then you could say they are women's interest advocates rather than equal rights advocates. It's a bit of a mouthful but anything less accurate will undermine rather than reinforce what you're attempting to do.

ManRAh · 2015-04-17T21:01:52+00:00

Feminism is a gendered term. As such, it is exclusionary by nature. If Feminists truly support equality and wish to distance themselves from "gender warriors" and other radicals, they should simply call themselves Egalitarians.

For fun, watch a bunch of "feminists" shout down another woman who doesn't label herself a feminist because she disagrees with radical elements of feminism.

VermiciousKnidzz · 2015-04-16T17:46:03+00:00

Exactly. I say it with pride. The fact that the word has such a stigma (in more conservative people, I've noticed) is just evidence to me that feminism is needed all the more.

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