Does the feminine imperative determine which issues of men's rights are worth discussing and which are hilarious non-issues?

moodyprism · 2016-01-10T20:03:16+00:00

Are all issues of men's rights determined by what's in the long-term interest of women and children?

Yes. This needs no further discussion. The only time in men's rights issues get any coverage at all is when it starts effecting women. Men aren't graduating from college? Oh no how will women find men of higher value than themselves. Men are getting pissed off and forsaking marriage? Oh no where have all the good men gone to wife up used up party sluts.

OlBastard · 2016-01-10T20:03:55+00:00

It seems like it.

You hear shit like,

You aren't owed sex.

and in talks of reproductive rights

Just don't have sex.

and in a dead bedroom

You can't force her, it's her body.

And so on.

The feminine imperative drives nearly every single supported cause by women that is a male issue.

However, women feel entitled to sex and affection like there's no tomorrow and see nothing wrong with it.

Given how easily available it is to them, it's no surprise really.

wub1234 · 2016-01-10T20:45:47+00:00

However, most women, including feminists are sympathetic towards the high rates of depression, substance abuse and suicide in men.

Feminists or women in general are sympathetic towards these issues because they can experience them and understand them.

They don't sympathise with sexual issues because presentable women do not experience them and cannot experience them. Therefore, as I've said before, they wrongly believe that if a man is unsuccessful sexually that there must be something wrong with him, or he must have excessively high standards. I have been accused of both of these things, I'm sure most guys have.

It's frequently repeated that if you haven't had many sexual encounters, or don't have a girlfriend, it's because you're not socially competent. Someone posted this again today. I don't think the person who posted it was female, it was just a troll, but some, probably many, females believe that if you're socially competent then you will inevitably find a girlfriend because that applies to them. It doesn't apply to men at all, though, simply because women are far more selective.

The rape issue is a very emotive one and I think MRAs talk as much crap about rape as feminists.

EmpressofMars · 2016-01-10T23:20:42+00:00

"However, most women, including feminists are sympathetic towards the high rates of depression, substance abuse and suicide in men. Is this because if they don't protect these liberties, dead men make for fewer beta buxes?"

No it's because suicide is a tragedy, depression is a serious mental illness and substance abuse destroys lives. Not everything is about "beta bucks" or similar nonsense, it's humans feeling bad for and wanting to heal and protect other sick and dying humans.

Sonic_Bluth · 2016-01-10T20:17:20+00:00

I'm a man, and it really bums me out that the most famous, vocal advocates for my "rights" fixate so much on "having an awesome sex life" as a right. I genuinely don't see any pro-female agenda in believing that.

Also, as someone with severe clinical depression, if someone says they are "depressed" because they don't have something in their life, and their depression goes away once they get that thing in their life, I'm more inclined to label that state of mind "sad." Actual mental illness goes deeper than that.

grendalor · 2016-01-10T21:43:49+00:00

The feminine imperative is the prime directive in society, and determines everything that comes in contact with men/women, sex, relationships and children. Just is so, always will be so. It hides under a masculine mask, often, because men let it be so, but it is still the FI.

exit_sandman · 2016-01-10T23:46:12+00:00

Is this because if they don't protect these liberties, dead men make for fewer beta buxes?

No, it's rather because these issues (usually) don't try to flip the script in the opression olympics. But I guarantee you: should someone ever come up with a foolproof and exhausting analysis about why depression, substance abuse and suicide can be traced back to the victims' relationships to women (whether it's perpetual solitude or being in a relationship with a nagging and demanding shrew), you can bet that the sympathy of most women and almost all feminists for the subjects of that research will vanish (in that case it's the guy either "not being entitled to a relationship" or a deadbeat who had it coming). Male victimization only counts if it's other men being the victimizers.

I will repeat what I said last night: feminism has failed, and sadly WILL FAIL, to liberate men entirely from their traditional gender role, because turning the wheels of the engines that keep our society up and running depend on enough men being chained into it.

Liberating men from their traditional gender role won't fly because it's women demanding that men live up to them, and don't date them if they refuse to do so.

Ironically, the only way for most men to truly avoid being conscripted into their traditional gender roles would be to come to terms with the fact that they have to forego non-platonic female companionship altogether. Which of course will give us accusations of Peter Panism et. al., and you can guess which ideological camp will be fully on bord with that.

PoopInMyBottom · 2016-01-11T04:49:31+00:00

For example, no anti-feminist MRA woman is ever going to make claims against the 'friend zone' etc.

Not true. To be honest, most women worth knowing have a lot of empathy for guys who are led on like that. They recognise it sucks.

In my experience, the women who complain about "nice guys" are often the same women who lead them on. Some are girls who want attention so much they'll passively accept it (and don't want to feel bad for doing so), others are girls who just lack empathy for guys like that.

I wouldn't worry about it. There are a lot of women who are perfectly understanding of the problem.

duckyhunter · 2016-01-11T09:38:09+00:00

What the fuck does the friend zone have to do with men's rights?

No one has a right to be loved.

VermiciousKnidzz · 2016-01-11T19:19:38+00:00

basically, any argument MRAs have that boil down to "feminazi boogeyman" are laughable and will always be

transientfrustration · 2016-01-10T20:31:16+00:00

Surely you can make up a just-so story for why one side does or does not advocate against any random issue.

questioningwoman · 2016-01-10T22:32:20+00:00

The most important male right should be the right to have a life free of a military draft. The draft is fundamentally a form of slavery to the government that erases autonomy. All military drafts should be banned because it makes someone a slave to government wars they may not agree with or may not think the risk is worth it.

MaK_Ultra · 2016-01-11T12:07:16+00:00

Why not ask the red pill since the feminist imperative is something they created and has no real function outside of their discussion.

quantumtrollening · 2016-01-11T18:02:30+00:00

It is unlikely that a feminist will ever side with a man on a 'rape culture' issue. If they do, it will take an extremely heated debate for them to do so-or some obvious evidence that he'd been date-raped with roofies himself, for example.

I'm not sure I followed this one. Does that mean that you think feminists are unlikely to agree with an MRA about "there's no rape culture"...unless that MRA had been raped previously (because those two things are connected, somehow)? Or does it mean that you think a feminist is unlikely to believe a man was raped unless he provided clear evidence of it?

grendalor · 2016-01-11T19:32:35+00:00

However, most women, including feminists are sympathetic towards the high rates of depression, substance abuse and suicide in men.

Is this because if they don't protect these liberties, dead men make for fewer beta buxes? Can most 'legitimate' men's rights issues be boiled down to 'things which allow men to stay in the workforce for longer and have a longer beta provider shelf life'?

Basically it's another way to attack the concept of "patriarchy" and the idea that "patriarchy is bad for men, too, and that's why men have high rates of depression, substance abuse and suicide". In other words, it's taken as evidence that men desperately need to abandon their old pariarchal norms and expectations, because not doing so is leading to depression, substance abuse and suicide.

DevilDwarv · 2016-01-10T20:25:03+00:00

I think that feminists are the most receptive for men's issues that also affect women. For example, they do campaign for men to be able to break their gender roles without judgment from society, something I fully support. Just like they support not judging women who desert their gender roles.

But for male specific issues, like rape culture (false accusations), feminists (at least the extreme ones that we like to rage over) are biased in favor of women. Now, MRA's are just as biased too, just in favor of men. But in this kind of thing is where the most disagreements exists in my opinion. Because if one side gets their way here, the other side will always feel like they've lost.

ehwut · 2016-01-10T21:41:20+00:00

It's not that the agenda of feminists decides which men's rights issues are worthy of discussion, but that the MRM is so filled with blatant, egregious misogyny that it's classified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Egalitarian feminists argue in favor of men's interests, but it does sound like a conflict of interest on the surface. Feminists representing men? Why not masculists?

THIS is why the MRM has essentially no power at all. Imagine if third wave feminism were the only kind to exist, and the only alternative to have women's interests represented were the MRM. That's basically the position that anybody advocating for men's rights finds themselves in.

It is incredibly offensive that there seems to be a general attitude that thinking men should have rights somehow makes a person a misogynist. Let me get this straight. Either all men inflict harm upon themselves or they hate women? And somehow that is not misandry? Sure. Right.

I dated somebody in high school who had some real issues. She carved my name into her skin, and then said that if I loved her, I'd do the same thing. I am reminded of that experience every time the MRM comes up at the same time as feminism.

And there's nothing to be done about it because there is no men's rights community to speak of that does not tolerate misogyny. I don't even think it could happen because the moment a community is formed to concern itself with men's legal or civil rights issues, a disgusting mass of human filth materializes to derail it.

Title	Does the feminine imperative determine which issues of men's rights are worth discussing and which are hilarious non-issues?
Author	Xemnas81
Upvotes	7
Comments	78
Date	January 10, 2016 7:57 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/40cv4e/does_the_feminine_imperative_determine_which/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/does-the-feminine-imperative-determine-which.277069 https://theredarchive.com/post/277069

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