How's Mark Mansons Models "Vulnerability" in par with trp?

LeatherBoundWisdom · 2020-01-01T20:32:05+00:00

A good way to think about the vulnerability he describes is a jacked Roman soldier who doesn't wear armor because he doesn't need to. If he did wear armor, it would be because he isn't strong enough to fight without it.

Practically, I don't think you should advertise unprompted "I'm nervous, I can't get an erection sometimes", but if that is the reality and it's relevant or necessary to mention, you shouldn't be afraid to mention it. The focus here is to not think you need to be some perfect super alpha in order to get women. Whoever you are, flawed as you are, is enough. You're then open to mention your flaws if the situation calls for it.

This vulnerability opens the door for you to actually connect, to actually communicate the person you are and not a filtered down archetype. People are only interesting and captivating when they are real - the super hero with no flaws always seems fake and superficial, and that is boring. If you aren't real with a girl, it doesn't matter how much of an asshole you are to her, she won't want to fuck you - because she can see clear as day that you don't think the real you is good enough for her. That if she saw who you actually are she wouldn't want to fuck you.

silvereddi · 2020-01-01T19:59:44+00:00

[deleted]

MattyAnon · 2020-01-01T22:27:40+00:00

vulnerable

This is in the sense of being honest, eg asking a girl out directly, showing you like her, etc.

You should never be vulnerable as in "let yourself be in a weak position", which is never attractive and attractive people never do this. Eg don't wait for her, don't do what she says, don't let her call the shots, don't let her run your life or make your decisions, etc.

Girls will exploit vulnerability as if you're offering them free cash. Which is why the "I find you attractive" frame should also include "but you're not the only attractive woman who likes me".

you must never open up to a girl, not even in a LTR.

Never show weakness, it's unattractive. She doesn't want the story, she wants the end result. I think it was Bill Burr who says "they wait at the finish line and fuck the winner".

But Mark guides to a different path

He does, and he sells books that women don't complain about.

Women complain about TRP endlessly.

Which do you think is acting in your best interests?

as he said its an important step to become Non-Needy

Being non-needy is the absolute most important first step.

He explained it like, if you try to manipulate a girl or EXPECT to get laid when you open up, then you're doing it wrong. But when you just let your emotions flow, like in his example when he went over to this girl who wanted to fuck and he couldnt get hard, he told her he's nervous, havent had sex for a long time and first wants to "get to know her".

What the fucking fuckity fuck.

Im trying to understand this, as im trying to swallow the pill.

Manson is NOT "the pill". His dating advice is pretty good, but he's not hardcore red.

Zombiespire · 2020-01-01T22:42:00+00:00

I'm going to go overboard here because there's a lot to unpack here. Other people here have already explained that "vulnerability" is not just about emotions. It's about being willing to put your mental state at risk in order to gain something, and having the confidence to do that is attractive, because confidence. When you introduce yourself to a girl you are interested in, you are making yourself vulnerable to the risk of rejection, and the mental anguish and humiliation that can come with that. When you're owning up to your flaws or mistakes to another person, you are making yourself vulnerable to being judged, to someone forming a more negative perception of you, and the brain feels bad when it gets rejected socially. It's about putting your mind at risk to feel negative emotions like heartbreak, humiliation, sadness, etc. Because if you don't take risks, you'll never acquire anything. What you are confused about is the emotional aspect.

So what is a relationship. A true relationship is emotionally connecting with another person. It's not liking the same TV shows, or hating the same genres of music, or having sex with each other. At it's atomic root, a relationship is the emotions felt and shared with another person. Here is an example of a person who is failing to show emotional vulnerability and how that is impacting his relationship. And my response here. EDIT: Had to remove link for bot reasons, PM me if you are curious about that example.

A lot of people here when they hear "emotion" their mind instantly goes to weakness. They think of an emotional wreck who doesn't have control of their emotions, cries when things don't go their way, that kind of thing. That is an example of a weak person, not an emotional person. To be vulnerable with a female does not mean subjecting them to your issues, or dumping emotions on them prompting them to respond and validate you. I'm not going to go up to a female and tell her about my crippling porn addiction, that would make her nothing but uncomfortable. I'm not going to info dump on a recent breakup and how mad and depressed I am about it, that would make her nothing but uncomfortable.

You can be in tune and open with your emotions without making people uncomfortable, or making your frame fall apart. By communicating your emotions and effectively "opening yourself up" "making yourself vulnerable", this gives people the chance to come into your life and become invested in how you feel through empathy/sympathy. This is the creation off a relationship, romantic or platonic. If you can show you are comfortable communicating openly with your emotions, that displays confidence and being tuned into your emotions. A lot of relationships run into problems when the woman (who are the more emotional and empathetic sex) start becoming frustrated that the man does not share any emotions, and thus comes off as dishonest. Then the woman begins to wonder who they are, and begin to distrust them because they still don't know who they are. This is why relationships break down from dishonesty. You should be learning more about a person the longer you date them, not less.

So how can you apply this? In conversation about things you are currently feeling, or when you are telling a story, incorporate emotions into it. Do not become obsessed with hiding everything about yourself, BUT make sure you are maintaining frame as a strong man who is IN CONTROL of the emotions they feel, and NOT ENSLAVED to their emotions as impulses. When telling a story where you're in danger, incorporate how scared or unnerved you felt, but let your frame and storytelling show that you were still strong and courageous in that story. Like in the example above, when you lose or about to lose someone you care a lot about, say how painful that is for you because you care about that person a lot and don't want to lose them. But SHOW that it still does not make you weak, and these painful emotions do not affect YOUR LIFE. You don't start binge drinking, develop anger problems, or shut yourself in your house for a week. When talking about your hobby or career, incorporate how excited it makes you feel, why it's important to you, or why you are passionate about it. Life is a culmination of emotions and feelings, and when you share them you can build emotional connections. If you maintain frame when you share emotions, you are attractive. It's all about showing you are comfortable experiencing your positive and negative emotions, and you are not ashamed to have any of those feelings or emotions. When Manson was upfront and direct with a girl that it has been a while for him, and he needs to be more comfortable with the girl to have sex; for one that's being honest about the problem at hand instead of lying which implies fearing facing an issue ("Honesty is the best policy" -Benjamin Franklin), and it shows that even though there is something negative that is affecting him physically, him communicating it confidently shows that it does not bother him, and that he wasn't ashamed to have a problem. Now in counter, I still strongly believe you should NEVER EVER disclose any CURRENT psychological issues to a woman, because 9 times out of 10 they will see you as weak and untrustworthy. Do not discuss depression with a female, do not discuss trauma or PTSD with a woman, do not discuss any addictions or dependencies with a woman, do not discuss any deep emotionally ingrained issues with a woman. You CAN talk about issues in the past, for example a veteran talking about PTSD over a deployment and how it's behind him, BUT proceed with caution. Anything that is an issue that affects your psyche or life, save it for a trusted male friend, or a therapist. Women need to be able to trust that you are immovable and secure, or they will leave you. I'm serious not even with your wife, do not discuss depression.

In response to people here stating the opposite, there is a major flaw in this subreddit. A lot of the people here are damaged, emotionally or otherwise. And the lifestyles and views they hold are often based upon that damage. I highly encourage that everything that is told to you here you should think on it for yourself, nothing here is an absolute rule. A lot of people here insist that love is fake, all women are nothing but whores, amazing women don't exist, and that no one should ever get married and just fuck around with women their entire lives. To all that shit I say fuck that. Many here have developed narcissism based on their bad experiences in life or on what they have learned here. Narcissism can be productive when it involves investing more in yourself than others, in being confident in yourself and having good self esteem, standing up for yourself, and not being needy of others. Where it becomes bad is when you are no longer considerate of anyone other than yourself, their emotions, or their needs, and developing this hatred and disgust of women. Women didn't stop being human beings when we decided to swallow the red pill, we just learned to understand their logic, desires, and behavior better than the lies of blue pill.

Best quote I heard here was this "TRP is a toolbox for men. Use it as a resource to improve your life, leave behind what you don't like or agree with. But be wise and empowered to know the difference."

2020-01-01T20:45:23+00:00

I like his more general messages like being honest and expressint yourself more authentically, I don’t necessarily think it’s a perfect philosophy/strategy on the whole but there is no such thing as perfect.

AA7 · 2020-01-01T21:59:34+00:00

It works if you're good looking. I've done it and still got laid. Plus you can sort of tie this into the book of pook where he says perfect is boring.

jonsmif9797 · 2020-01-01T19:43:43+00:00

It's not mutually exclusive. Vulnerability means willing to go to unknown territory and risks getting failure and embarrassment. It means do things that requires huge balls.

I believe it is mentioned in the book that vulnerability is not emotional puke, not seeking for sympathy. You fucking STFU about your problems.

Vulnerability means cold approaching, asking her on a date, escalate, unabashedly being sexual, embrace conflicts, hold eye contact, etc. Anything that requires courage.

2020-01-01T23:40:47+00:00

You share vulnerable details, but in a confident tone. Period. For example, instead of saying "I'm worried (shaky voice), I dont know if my new business is going to succeed!!!" you say "I have some worries about my new business, I wont lie (stable confident DGAF tone)." Yes vulnerability is essential for an LTR.

One other guy who posted here noted that it's "brutally honest" sharing, but with "amused mastery and an DGAF attitude," which I completely agree with as well.

InscrutablePUA · 2020-01-02T00:38:27+00:00

Vulnerability is all about putting yourself in a position where you can be rejected, or open to harm, rather than being walled off and emotionless all the time. If you're lifting and eating well and project an alpha physical presence, a bit of emotional vulnerability once in a while works wonders in a LTR.

teka7 · 2020-01-01T19:17:10+00:00

Its not mixing well. Not everything mixes well, test and think for yourself...

rosesmellikepoopoo · 2020-01-01T19:33:27+00:00

That book is more for purple pills. Red pillers just want to spin plates.

sintemir · 2020-01-01T22:42:40+00:00

In mystery method or whichever pua book, I read "ask most embrassing memory"... she will hesitate to tell... so you tell it first (its - look I am a human- move also you are taking lead )Like you were in highschool , breaking school and your pants ripped in whole school. Everyone grinning But you still made it somehow kind story.

Drive_Thru_Sushi · 2020-01-01T23:14:31+00:00

I think he means that vulnerability doesn’t necessarily mean exposing your own weaknesses or being weak, but more or less accepting them and having the courage to go out and let them show just a bit. Knowing awkward moments and rejection are a possibility, you don’t give a fuck and carry on because you’re ‘confident’ in who you are.

jackandjill22 · 2020-01-02T00:51:28+00:00

Andrew54321 · 2020-01-02T01:24:28+00:00

You’re suppose to own your vulnerabilities.

Know you have weak points and you’re working on them less weak.

zzzip101 · 2020-01-02T03:09:15+00:00

It's hard to explain but it's easy to reveal a part of yourself whilst being strong and stoic at the same time. And it is important that you are also able to move on in the sense that you don't keep bringing it up and just keep living.

On the other side of the platform, you can be a constant whinger and seek your partners validation at all time. Your partner is not your mother.

FemtoG · 2020-01-02T04:09:16+00:00

mark manson has the right idea. people sniff out ungenuineness tremendously well. ur a fool if u think u can fool them

bluefingerblue · 2020-01-02T04:32:38+00:00

Vulnerability really means putting yourself out there. Asking the girl out. Making the move.

You’re putting yourself in positions to get rejected, but instead be vulnerable.

Put yourself out there. Be honest with your intentions.

send_it_for_the_boys · 2020-01-02T06:28:12+00:00

This comes down to it’s not what you say it’s how you say it. Don’t talk to girls or in fact anybody about your problems or things in a negative way, don’t whine that’s for babies. Nobody likes somebody that pouts about everything and complains and begs for reassurance & attention. Example one time me and a girl were hanging out and somehow got brought up about my parents being divorced at a young age, she started asking me things like how it affected me or doesn’t that hurt? Blah blah you know. My responses were things like, honestly it didn’t phase me much, didn’t really think about it at the time and I figured it was for the best. Maybe as I get older I think about it a little more but I see it as something that I was able to go through and continue on my path without it bringing me down. Which is all true. I “and I’m sure you and everyone else on this sub” come from a lot of adversity & throughout the years ive taught myself to “embrace the suck” if you will. Hard situations make the hard men, I don’t mind talking about them but I’m damn sure not going to use it as a way to get validation or an excuse to not do something with my life. Finding TRP & all the other information online about becoming a man also really helped me to harness everything I’ve been through and will go through and use it as energy for something good for me! Don’t forget where you come from! I also recommend watching David Goggins videos!!! Dudes a unit & he’s a prime example on what it means to speak vulnerably but in a.....powerful way! Hope you get something from this.!

mikalepkoslika · 2020-01-02T09:59:32+00:00

It’s a book on how to become an orbiter and a beta cuck. Does it work for Manson to get laid? Of course. He is a Chad, or was a Chad in his prime, Chad can play a triangle and get more pussy than an orchestra conductor. For an average Joe? No way it works. Using this technique one can become another female friend of his oneitis. Not a healthy scenario. On the other hand, you won’t get metooed or assrammed by Tyrone in the gaol, because Manson respects m‘ladies.

INNASKILLZ2K18 · 2020-01-02T13:36:14+00:00

Manson isn't referring to vulnerability as being a weak, emotional puke spilling guy.

What I got from the book, is he think a lot of guys are too outcome dependent and trying too hard to be 'Alpha'. Lots of tricks, games and effort.

Really you have to get in, polarize a woman and forget it if she isn't 'fuck yes'.

His vulnerability, is really being vulnerable to rejection.

He's not RedPill in terms of a lot of the 'strategy' stuff. He's more get in, be honest that you find her attractive, polarize, forget it if she's not fuck yes.

His other stuff, like the woman who wanted him to fuck her on the table and he couldn't...MAYBE that situation could turn out ok...but I don't think it's something he should be telling guys to do.

8BitRebellion · 2020-01-02T08:03:55+00:00

Speaking about this book. I've heard a lot of good stuff about this book. Is it worth it to pick it up?

Title	How's Mark Mansons Models "Vulnerability" in par with trp?
Author	silvereddi
Upvotes	65
Comments	51
Date	January 1, 2020 7:04 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askTRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/eim59q/hows_mark_mansons_models_vulnerability_in_par/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askTRP/hows-mark-mansons-models-vulnerability-in-par-with.304084 https://theredarchive.com/post/304084

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