~ archived since 2018 ~
~ archived since 2018 ~
| Upvotes | Comment on | Subreddit | Date (UTC) |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | If “your league is what you can get” then women are shooting too high for guys they can only get for casual sexMaybe. But all this makes it feel like the true human norm, in a society with free women, if for there to be a much lower pairing rate than we have seen in recent centuries combined with a much higher incel rate. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 06:41 PM |
| 1 | "Women find it easier to survive, men find it easier to thrive"Those are the male advantages. But despite those, women seem to be kicking the shit out of men in education and slowly economically. So something is up. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 03:10 PM |
| 1 | Men adapt to women's needs therefore women are the problemI dunno. Depends on the place and period. The percentages matter. It's not as if, even with economic freedom, women are dating down a lot now. The difference for people who pair would maybe be in how much they were pressured to be with a particular guy rather than just a guy with sufficient means. Nowadays, of course, the biggest change is the option to NOT pair with anyone if none of your options work for you. But if too many women choose that option, the pairing rate tanks and we have all sort… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 03:06 PM |
| 3 | Discouraging men from approaching women perpetuates a culture in which only the least desirable men approachGoing in mixed groups was always best for me. Merge groups. Let women be the vanguard in doing that. Female wingmen for the win! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 03:02 PM |
| 1 | Men adapt to women's needs therefore women are the problemTo a young man with no romantic success the raw, almost abstract drive to have a woman can seem overwhelming. Even for decent guys. In a good cultural setting, something magic can happen though when that drive is met. They can bond and real love can grow. On a macro level, the data we see if very concerning. Nothing is clear as to what is really happening. But you start fucking with the mating and family creation paradigm too much and things really can go to shit. Too many unattached males is al… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 02:46 PM |
| 1 | Men adapt to women's needs therefore women are the problemMaybe. I dont really care much about these issues from a personal or individual standpoint. You do your best and see what happens. Not much else you can do. But the society level implications are very interesting to me. The sorting mechanisms we have are only so efficient, so most people will never find their best possible matches. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 02:34 PM |
| 1 | Men adapt to women's needs therefore women are the problemI would hope that what you say is true. I would hope individual variance is high here. But there is a possibility that despite individual variance, there are strong patterns. That would be bad. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 02:28 PM |
| 1 | Men adapt to women's needs therefore women are the problemA deeper and open question is that even the men who want burning desire may be going too far and asking for the impossible. It may be that for women, regardless of her own level and whether she is evenly matched, there is only a certain level of raw desire they tend to get to with less attractive partners. It could be that the super enthusiastic sex and desire is primarily for very attractive men and always has been. Some exceptions, of course. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 02:11 PM |
| 1 | "Women find it easier to survive, men find it easier to thrive"actually whether women have a Big 5 personality advantage in conscientiousness is debated, and if they do it is small. Women also seem to lean more orderliness (subtype) while men more industrious. But agreeableness may factor in. And men can likely be put off their conscientiousness by temptation and addiction more easily than women., | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 02:09 PM |
| 1 | "Women find it easier to survive, men find it easier to thrive"Yeah, there is a hard developmental advantage early. But beyond that, women seem better able to be diligent about doing regular boring grunt work. More able to stay focused in a classroom and not be disruptive. Easier to work in groups. And then women are less prone to destructive temptations like drugs, porn, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 01:37 PM |
| 1 | If “your league is what you can get” then women are shooting too high for guys they can only get for casual sexInteresting. I've heard a similar theory that it generally works out that women will just do more directly for men INSIDE a relationship than the other way around. Thus, some degree of hypergamy is needed to compensate. In some holistic sense, men may balance this out by the outsized contributions of top men to society that filter back to women. But she is getting that anyways, so what matters is the balance between the individual man and woman. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 01:23 PM |
| 11 | Discouraging men from approaching women perpetuates a culture in which only the least desirable men approachAll true. But I understand the confusion if you look at the bar scene from 70s through 2010s or so. Some guys think this was all good for everyone and a golden age. Not sure how women felt. And yeah, cold approaches in the day time in public places. Those were never a super common thing overall. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 01:09 PM |
| 2 | "Women find it easier to survive, men find it easier to thrive"Thing is, if those are also the conditions of work now, shouldn't education conditions match? That's the real problematic part with male underperformance now vs. female underperformance in the past. Conceptually, females were an easy fix. Not necessarily true for males. What if women are just better adapted to the world we are making right now, at least at the median? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 12:48 PM |
| 3 | The internet was the worst invention for men in our society.I think that until we learn to properly control our technology use and addiction I'd rather be back in 1994. The psychic costs of the Internet all around greatly outweigh the material benefits. For either gender. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 12:16 PM |
| 3 | "Women find it easier to survive, men find it easier to thrive"I dunno about that. Maybe referring to male variability in that the worst men are more numerous and worse than the worst women, but the top men are also more numerous and more capable. In general, the relevant literature suggests boys and men are more fragile than women in terms of needing the right structure to develop properly and then behave productively and morally as adults. So to the extent society is going to shit, it will hurt men more. And maybe when everything is in place, even median … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 12:04 PM |
| 2 | "Women find it easier to survive, men find it easier to thrive"I'm not sure. The psychic atmosphere matters. For example, in the 1980s and 1990s, the turnaround in female education was all about changing expectations and basically psychological conditions for girls. Right now, those conditions are horrible for young men. But, here is the darker question that troubles me: Maybe in this case there is justification for for the current state of affairs. A lot of these traits that are more male-typical might be things we do want suppressed. As men in the manosph… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 11:59 AM |
| 1 | Men adapt to women's needs therefore women are the problemI dunno. Because another manosphere trend of thought is that men have figured out that women will feign attraction and choose guys for stability or money, and men want not part of that. They want to make sure she has true desire for them. The manosphere at this point is by no means coherent. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 11:52 AM |
| 2 | The internet was the worst invention for men in our society.The Internet hurts men more. No doubt. But it ain't doing women any favors either. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 11:46 AM |
| 51 | Discouraging men from approaching women perpetuates a culture in which only the least desirable men approachI think nobody has fully thought this through. But historically you didn't approach strange women without mediation unless you wanted the shit kicked out of you. Or there were certain occasions with set rules. The bar scene for several decades may have been an unsustainable aberration. Not sure. It's true that women do seem to want there to be these venues where the right guy can approach them in the right way for that woman, and the men are supposed to automatically know all of it. That won't w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 11:45 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI was saying that even past ways of having a child in the world you dont need to think or care about are not working well. They often find you. As to paper adoptions, what if the girl entrapped you. She is poor. She had the kid. You paper aborted. But so what? if you are a decent man, you gotta step in and help. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 11:39 AM |
| -1 | Women on this sub apply the just world fallacy far too often when it comes to sexThe point you are missing is that people have very different priors here. The people saying that Incels are all gross tend to believe that not much has changed in the dating market. Women haven't become more selective, and Incels are the normal larger group of males at the bottom of the SMP who are there for a reason. Guys saying these incels are not that bad believe the opposite about the facts on the ground. If you think 50% of men or something are incels, then yeah, it is likely that a lot of… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 10:47 AM |
| 1 | The only reason why men and women aren't understanding each other is cause both of them are in different phases in datinghaha No. The point is that they are presenting themselves as emblematic of a certain SMV that in fact they do not have. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 10:32 AM |
| 1 | If “your league is what you can get” then women are shooting too high for guys they can only get for casual sexAre most women in relationships shit, too? Or are relationships in general shit? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 10:32 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI do. But I don't want to train men that it is OK to have children in the world they take no responsibility for should that kid be in trouble. Sometimes there are no perfectly fair answers. Ideally, the father would have some say in abortion as well. But I see no way for that to be possible that wouldn't create some monstrous situations in practice. We do the best we can. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 10:30 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThe actual material issue is hard to calculate. Not that many abortions. But in terms of psychic precedents, it is a huge problem. Saying it is OK to have a child in the world and not help take care of it, regardless of how it came into being. This is training men the wrong way. Fuck, even adoption and sperm donation is proving problematic now because of DNA testing and kids demanding to know their history and so on. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 10:28 AM |
| 1 | "Autistic women are less likely to be single because they're better at masking" No, it's because gender roles expect men to be far more socially adept in datingThat is one study. One that we still do not understand how the math works on. I am very concerned by some of the data, but it is by no means consistent or definitive. For example, it is unclear how gendered all of this is. Some studies seem to point to just general social alienation with both genders pairing less, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 10:23 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI think there is enormous variance on this. But the circumcision point is interesting and one I had not considered. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 07:25 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIf only looking at the two principals, paper abortion is obviously fair if women have the complete control over real abortion (which they must, if it is allowed at all). But life is not ideal. Paper abortion rights would create a huge issue for society, so they can't be allowed. This is the best we can do. Guys will just have to live with that and take this reality into consideration when they decide to stick their dick into things. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 07:23 AM |
| 1 | What’s considered being single by choice?This is getting to the big open question as to what determines one's attraction standards. But just because you can't find anyone you can land attractive does not mean it is easy to truly lower standards, even if they are more a result of culture/environment than biology. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 07:06 AM |
| 2 | The only reason why men and women aren't understanding each other is cause both of them are in different phases in datingI will be honest. I don't fully trust the anecdotes here. Nothing personal, just been on PPD too long. Often important info. is left out. LIke they will say "I'm a 6'4" White guy making 120k with a low BMI and a 8/10 face." That might all be true. But they will leave out that they are highly introverted with bad social skills. Or that they are on the spectrum. Or some other key thing. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 06:51 AM |
| 2 | "Autistic women are less likely to be single because they're better at masking" No, it's because gender roles expect men to be far more socially adept in datingThere is only one spectrum I'm on, and it isn't the political one haha I wouldn't even call myself centrist. I just try to be as honest and factual as I can and then look for the most pragmatic solutions. I am wary of false certainty. Things are too complex for that now. You will have best guesses and then have to try shit (carefully) and see what happens. Course correct. Always with humility in face of the overwhelming complexity of most issues. You might want to read the 10,000 year explosion.… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 06:26 AM |
| 1 | If “your league is what you can get” then women are shooting too high for guys they can only get for casual sexI'm not really that interested on what is true at the individual level as much as I want to look at the bigger picture. Why are most men shit? Are they really? I have an academic and scholarly interest here mainly. I don't have any timeline for having to make some sort of policy decision based on best guess at the time. So I like to look at all sides of the issues. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 04:17 AM |
| 3 | If “your league is what you can get” then women are shooting too high for guys they can only get for casual sexI agree that stripping away delusions would likely result in some women finding men on their own level more attractive. But it is far from clear how far this effect would go. I also think men may have their own forms of delusion resulting from other aspects of runaway technology abuse and just modern shit culture. Male sexuality is robust enough, and the male attraction floor flexible enough, that it won't necessarily show up in pairing rates. But it may show up in how attracted a man is to a wo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 04:08 AM |
| 4 | If “your league is what you can get” then women are shooting too high for guys they can only get for casual sexYou are assuming that what is 'supposed' to happen is that women should pair widely with men of not much higher relative SMV rank in long term monogamous relationships. But at this point all assumptions are open for investigation. Maybe this always required a large number of women to pair with women they are not sexually attracted to. Yes, many women are likely deluded about what kinds of guys they can actually land. But even if you stripped away those delusions, this doesn't mean those women wo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 03:55 AM |
| 4 | "Autistic women are less likely to be single because they're better at masking" No, it's because gender roles expect men to be far more socially adept in datingI am have huge issues with psychology and their taxonomy of 'disorders'. But regardless or whether psych has autism exactly right, it is pointing at something. And that something seems to have clearly grown in number. Maybe it is older parents. I honestly think we need to get the median age of birth down, but it has to be done in such a way where it makes sense for the individual man and woman. They cannot just be taking it for Team Human. People don't work that way. I suspect that autism, adhd,… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 03:51 AM |
| 7 | Men adapt to women's needs therefore women are the problemIt's unclear to what extent there actually is an increase in male sexual exclusion. Beyond that, even if we stipulate that there is, we don't know exactly why. Maybe women didn't get pickier--maybe men got worse. Maybe women did get pickier, but it they are just finally free to manifest their natural and innate levels of selectivity. Maybe widespread enforced monogamy always went against female nature and involved forcing countless women to pair with men they found sexually unattractive, even if… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 03:44 AM |
| 1 | Fear mongering women over “dying alone”I responded more in depth to you elsewhere. But isn't negging a tactic a guy does directly to the girl he is trying to sleep with? It was originally supposed to be used tactically, on very attractive women who were used to every man complimenting her and had an inflated ego because of that. OK if it came up in such situations naturally, as part of organic banter. I don't approve of 'canned' tactics in general, though. So I always hated it. Using it on less pretty girls is just wrong no matter wh… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 02:59 AM |
| 1 | Fear mongering women over “dying alone”My interest is mostly academic, even anthropological. I tend to focus on the strongest forms of an argument from the best actors. You get the good form of this argument from even married, female dating coaches. I am also aware that the manosphere is highly toxic and deranged in many places. So those guys are taking these types of arguments and trying to use them with different motivations, attaching various woman-hating beliefs onto them and so on. But I have no time for these guys. The issue wi… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/24 02:55 AM |
| 1 | Is it acceptable to criticize a woman's hair?I think that if you have enough game and attractiveness to pull this off then you could have done fine without being a dick. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 06:59 PM |
| 1 | Women in their 20s don't want to settle downPeople respond to incentives. I agree that a more common understanding that society has a stake in mating patterns and that there is an obligation to society can move the needle some. But in the main you will need to restructure incentives to get early marriage and reproduction. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 11:53 AM |
| 3 | "Autistic women are less likely to be single because they're better at masking" No, it's because gender roles expect men to be far more socially adept in datingThere's no formula for that, which is why it is a hard question. There's likely a hard limit at which everything goes to hell, but nobody knows what that is, especially in modernity where it is easier to pacify sexually frustrated males, and where their raw bodies alone are much less of a military threat. But I'd say you are likely to be well beyond the ideal pairing rate before you get to that. But how sexually selective free women naturally are is also a factor. And we dont really know for sur… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 11:25 AM |
| 0 | I'm not convinced that women's sexuality is shamed more.Humans are the only truly intelligent animal. Thus, if you suddenly apply intelligence and then intelligence-produced morality to humans, it would be a miracle if that morality ended up approving all male and female instincts and typical behaviors equally. So the better form of the argument is that female sexuality is more shamed than male for things that should not be shamed. Men rape more. But should we not shame that more because women aren't doing it much? Men watch way more porn. Everyone s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 11:21 AM |
| 2 | How do guys who are settled for make the most of it?The concept of settling is nebulous. Unclear what that means. Does every guy who dreams of marrying a supermodel 'settle' when they do get married? So I think you need better framing here. Do you mean when a guy marries a woman who isn't sufficiently attracted to him that she actually likes sex with him? A wife who has slept with men she considers hotter or to have provided a better sexual experience? A wife who feels disappointed in her man from the beginning but feels forced to pick someone fo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 11:13 AM |
| – | Debate: the problem with the dating market is women’s standards are too highThe nature of the game may be similar, or even the same. But I am not sure the conditions are. But yes, from an individual male's perspective, it is pretty much the same even if things were harder. Learn what women like in your SMP. Adapt to that. Improve. Compete. If it is harder, so what? How does that change what you do? But on a macro and society level, the overall results can change and I suspect they have. We may disagree there, but that is life on Reddit. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 11:10 AM |
| 1 | Men age better than Women. Fact or Societal standards/expectations?The biological facts are that men have a strong preference for neoteny in women. Women do not have that preference in men. In certain objective ways men probably peak in pure physical attractiveness later than men as they tend to fill out in their mid 20s. Women also wrinkle more than men, and women care less about male wrinkles. Men have the hairline, though. How much women care varies. Women's preferences for men, even purely on a physical basis, seem to scale more with age, to a point. Men un… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 11:06 AM |
| 1 | CMV: Luck is everything. Some men are just by default undesirable and there is no underlyting reason whySelf-improvement has levels to it. Female mate choice preferences absolutely do encourage men to improve, and most men respond to that motivation to some extent. But radical change on personal level is very hard and thus very rare. I'm mostly concerned with the big picture. It isn't all luck. Certain cultural and environmental factors can impact how selective women are and what their preferences are. But we do not understand all the dynamics by any means. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 10:55 AM |
| 9 | "Autistic women are less likely to be single because they're better at masking" No, it's because gender roles expect men to be far more socially adept in datingThe problem is that it is natural for a young man to be obsessed with finding female sexual partners until he has some. But that doesn't mean you can equate women's sexual choices with society's overall treatment. I'll be brutal, in terms of real social priorities, what matters is big picture things. What is the pairing rate? What percentage of men are sexually excluded? How stable and lasting are pairings? What behaviors are male and female mate choice preferences encouraging and discouraging i… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 10:51 AM |
| – | Debate: the problem with the dating market is women’s standards are too highI misread and wasn't quite sure what your 'nothing changed' applied to. I see you mean that very broadly in terms of what % of men get women. I do not think you proved it, but this is one of the possibilities. It's advanced by many. I think something has changed along these lines, but I am not sure how much and why. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 10:35 AM |
| – | Debate: the problem with the dating market is women’s standards are too highBut the big question is all about whether the lesser did get what is left over, and the dynamics of that pairing, including how many guys were left out entirely. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 07:21 AM |
| – | Debate: the problem with the dating market is women’s standards are too highFirst of all, I think it is empirically unclear exactly what is happening on the ground right now. This includes the possibility that some dynamics complained about by PPD men are true, but only in certain demographics. The most important point, though, is that even if we stipulate that the OP is right, we still wouldn't know WHY those standards are that high. For one, saying they are TOO high assumes that the widespread monogamy paradigm we have operated under (and which requires women to not d… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 07:01 AM |
| 8 | The Big Difference of Aging between Men vs Women is...Men are biologically attracted to neoteny in women in a way that women are not attracted to it in men. As well, despite what Blackpill says, men still care more about female looks than the other way around, overall. Finally, not only do women care less about wrinkles on men, men wrinkle less. Hairline is a male issue, but the extent to which women innately care is hard to say. OFC we do now have a culture of sex and youth, so that is pushing both genders to care more about looking young. These a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 06:51 AM |
| 2 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?I won't beat around the bush. I am a believer in hypergamy, though I am more circumspect in my definition or certainty that I have hypergamy perfectly defined. And I aim at the core evolved instinct, and not how it manifests in a given environment. I don't think it is impossible for a less intelligent man to meet a smarter woman's hypergamous needs, but it is much harder. That said, like all qualities, the extent to which a given woman is hypergamous varies. You do not seem particularly hypergam… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 03:58 AM |
| 1 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?Even if you have the EQ to manage the problems, it's still isolating. I think that for various reasons, it is harder to make it work if the woman is the much smarter one. But when the man is, and they can make it work, it is functioning superficially but it limits possibilities in the kind of relationship you can have. I prefer a meeting of the minds, so the kinds of relationships possible with an average IQ woman do not generally appeal to me. (Here I'm assuming that IQ turns out to be a true p… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 02:26 AM |
| 1 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?For the sake of the question we are assuming that the IQ test was accurate. Using it as a proxy for true intelligence, which if probably true most of the time. But on an individual basis, sometimes the tests miss someone. You are right that having a high IQ is also correlated with many other things for complex reasons, but there can be issues even if that is not true. And yeah, socially unsuccessful people often end up identifying with their intelligence and a validating IQ score can encourage t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 02:13 AM |
| 1 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?Kinda. The core issue persists even if you had high WIS and CHA in that you are still in a different reality. OFC if you have CHA and WIS you can limit some of the negative side effects Misty talks about. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/04/24 02:09 AM |
| 3 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?Yep. Aware of how the curves differ here. And yeah, that is the issue because high IQ people tend to be more intellectual, and not being able to share that with a partner makes you feel isolated. You don't need her to be fully on your level, but close enough to not feel alone. Not every high IQ guy works this way, but more than enough do. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 07:06 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI think we may be agreeing. Leagues are just an understanding of conventional attractiveness levels and thus a rough idea of your odds of being perceived as attractive by someone else, i.e. they are a lot higher if you are on their rough conventional attractiveness level. Sure, types are a thing, but they are the unknowable. Conventional attractiveness levels form the basis of your basis probabilities, but you know this is not perfect. And leagues do not mean someone is too good for you or not. … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:53 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI agree. That is what I have been arguing. But there are complexities if you look closely enough. But by and large, yes. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:50 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSaying she is cute is super obvious sexual intent. I meant that it is obvious to the girl, and everyone else. But not that you go beyond the bounds of plausible deniability. Saying she is cute would cross that line. Nobody said one needs to have perfect league taxonomy. And sometimes you sincerely get it wrong. But generally one knows. Roughly. And you dont need to test it with cold direct approaches to know. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:44 PM |
| 4 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?Past 2 SD, you are pretty much neurodivergent by definition. You are qualitatively different than most people on the inside. Unless you make a concerted effort to harness your IQ to learn to fake being 'normal' you likely will not appear so. And a really high IQ person might find doing so really tedious and stressful. High IQ also doesnt mean you are disciplined, and such radical change requires that. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:40 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI agree that if we increase the resolution of our examination of the issue, interesting tensions arise due to insecurities. And often there is compartmentalization. At the same time, given how much pressure women are under for their appearance typically, I feel some part of almost every woman knows where they rate conventionally, at least in a somewhat rough manner. I'm not saying they have it down with super accuracy all the time. And then there are some who are pretty deluded, usually upping t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:37 PM |
| 6 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?Yes. But the relationship is gonna be complex. You probably get better EQ as you move up into an past the first standard deviation, and then at some point you go down. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:31 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI find this hard to believe. I've almost never met a girl who didn't know where she stands in conventional beauty. But I don't know you. So I can't argue about you with you. Maybe you are one of those rare exceptions. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:30 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadBut she didnt answer the actual question until a later post. Would you treat the guys differently assuming same scenario for each. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:28 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat Megathreadcool. my experience is that these interactions play out differently usually. but I think there are good reasons as well. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:26 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI would suspect that part of you would know if some guy you are really attracted to and is your type is also as conventionally attractive as you or not. You have some idea how 'most' people feel. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:23 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWell remember they know they are almost certainly going to be attracted enough to the guy in their league to go out with him. Not right fit or whatever. But yeah, they are less attracted to the guy not in their league. I also think this is somewhat justified. Guys shouldn't generally just cold approach a woman out of their league with obvious sexual intent. Other ways to do it if you feel you must. And to some extent, a woman is gonna wonder what else is wrong with this guy if he doesn't follow … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:19 PM |
| 0 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?At the end of the day, being 140+ IQ IS neurodivergent in and of itself. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:16 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadNo. He is not your type. He is less attractive to you than the guy in your league. The guy in your league is obviously attractive, just not a fit for you. My experience is that women do treat these men differently, and that to some extent it is justified. Men can definitely bat out of their league, but it should inform their approach. You generally should not cold approach a girl out of your league with obvious sexual intent. You should play it differently. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:15 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt will be a very short period to enjoy since once everything crumbles, survivors will restart with a lot of sexual constraint. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:01 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYou are wrong. Properly defined, everyone intuitively knows that leagues exist, even if they do not conceptualize them as such. Leagues are not destiny by any means. But they are very real. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 06:00 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadInteresting, but assuming it is the same scenario for both men, how and why would there be a difference? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:59 PM |
| 0 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?The correlation between really high IQ and ND is complex IMO. This is especially true because we would be pushing the boundaries of the very imperfect definition of neurodivergence. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:57 PM |
| 10 | How would an IQ score on your ID card affect dating or society in general?As someone with a very high IQ, I can tell you there are reasons sexual success goes down as your IQ goes up. Beyond some correlations between unattractive traits and very high IQ, it is often very hard for high IQ people to truly relate to more normal IQs. And vice versa. And the dating pool of 130+ IQ people is not that large. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:55 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadQuestion 4 W (but anyone can chime in--it's a free fucking country. Or is in theory.) Would you generally respond differently to a guy who approached you at a bar who was in your league, but just not your type vs. a guy who was clearly way below your league? Assume both approach nicely and decently. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:51 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYeah. I mean as with anything there are levels to this. But if we are calling her a size Queen, her desire for big dicks is pretty high level lol | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:46 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSexual restraint is always on a continuum. If we released all these constraints, civilization would end over a long weekend. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:35 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadAssuming some best version of myself that can properly process primal insecure feelings, which doesn't seem like a younger me, I dunno. I guess I'd need to know how medium the actual sex is for her. How much of a size queen she is. Cause if she is a penetration girl and size is the primary determinant of how enjoyable sex is, then whatever she is saying now, chances are that at some point she is gonna crave a bigger dick again. And probably go get one. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:33 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI can't figure out if we are supposed to bring about equality by having men constrain their objectification of women, or by having women objectify men to match. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:27 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadMaybe. Depends on a lot of very specific details. Did she say it when we were serious? People tend to forget that LTRs start off often as something not serious, and so say something about that lover early on they regret saying later on. It's normal. Also, how often was she saying this. Most importantly, why was she saying I was not the greatest lover? Is this fixable? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:23 PM |
| – | "You're not competing with other men, but her peace of mind" actually you are competing with her situationshipsRight. I agree that if higher mate value men didn't fuck down sometimes when it was their easiest option, a desire for sex would push some women into sleeping with or even LTRing with guys on their level. However, I am skeptical about the size of the overall impact of this dynamic on the SMP. Have an open mind, but an doubtful at the moment. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:35 PM |
| – | "You're not competing with other men, but her peace of mind" actually you are competing with her situationshipsMany variables. You may be underestimating the ability of some women, often older and perhaps lower SMV women, to go nun mode forever, often anticipating that none of their options for relationships will be attractive to them, and not wanting to be pumped and dumped by guys they do find attractive but the girls know will never LTR them. Not all women are the deluded girls one sees cherry picked on manosphere podcasts. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:03 PM |
| 2 | Men and women are not, and never will be equalEvolution doesn't do equal. Of course. But human intelligence has to try to make sense of certain things, and it can do equal in some ways. We can decide, for example, that human lives have equal moral worth in some fundamental sense. As for male and female physical confrontation, humans have to make rules and ideals to make for better lives. You will have to generalize to do that. This means there will be some arbitrary-like lines drawn. But it is necessary. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:41 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadFair enough. I was sorta assuming best case scenario (which is very rare) and that the sexless internet guy filtered well and got his info. from the better sources. Not very common haha | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:31 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI dont really believe in middle grounds per se. The middle ground is being more and more truthful, and at higher resolution sometimes when needed. So saying things like makeup isnt sexual is stupid. So is the idea that male preference has nothing to do with it or why women wear it. But saying every girl who wears it is a whore is also totally stupid. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:24 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadRight. They may know more raw info about women than the guy who stays off the internet and just has relationships. But the guys without lived experience also lack the perspective to properly process a lot of that info. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:13 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadNot that you ever go too far, but some things are better shared much later in life when you are older and have been together for decades. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:11 PM |
| – | Daily Community Chat Megathreadhaha yeah more overdone bullshit from the manosphere. OTOH if we can have a more honest and nuanced conversation about it, it might help prevent SOME of the extremism. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:10 PM |
| 1 | Fear mongering women over “dying alone”I agree, which is why extreme blackpill is dumb. Mind you, the men here are focusing in on what induces the most raw sexual lust in women. One may have issues with their monomaniacal focus on this, which I do. But I will also entertain their questions, while adding my own. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 02:04 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Perhaps you are viewing this through a more modern political lens than a historical and anthropological one. All good. Just not what I was interested in. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 01:07 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?It's a discussion thread, not a debate thread. I meant to investigate the whole dynamic, throughout different periods of history. This is why I also put in the word 'extent'. It isn't just a binary. Oppressed or not. But to what extent. Why. Were some periods different than others. Etc., Some good conversations were had IMO. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 01:02 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Because the idea is to avoid getting stuck on some technical argument about what 'oppressed' means and go beyond that IMO. 'Oppressed' has a connotation of it being unnecessary, for example. So one can take a look at to what extent some of the arrangements were necessary at the time, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 12:55 PM |
| 1 | Fear mongering women over “dying alone”There are various schools of thought as to who make up the real top 20%. Is it about reproductive success? If it about stimulating true 'burning desire' in women? And are we talking historical context, or now? Blackpiller say that if it is about real desire, it is ALL looks. TRP says that if it is about real desire, it is still a mix of looks / status / game / dominance, with cultural and environmental conditions swinging the relative weightings here and there. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 12:37 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI definitely see spontaneous vs. reactive as being on a spectrum, and that the same woman moves around on that spectrum, typically within a range. However, I think a straightforward correlation between general libido strength, or the intensity of arousal at a given point, is problematic. Not really sure how to frame this connection as I agree there may be one. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 12:15 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI can't unsee that image. OMFG. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:11 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadAh. I guess i have trouble parsing past a certain point. However, the chubby girl was also just shorter and smaller in basic frame, too, right? Actual BMI, ass fat excluded, might not be THAT different? Maybe. Dunno lol But the FAT girls are TOO fat even for you, right? Right... | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:05 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSo there are limits to how active your sexuality gets, but the more rested and relaxed, the more spontaneous/active and male-like your desire can slide. Interesting. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:02 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadHmm. Maybe I am failing at cross sex mind reading. Sexes have different needs here. To the man, sure, find someone hotter than me is fine. But the idea that some men create overall sexual experiences that are just totally different than you will ever be able to create with any woman is brutal. But to a female's reactive sexuality, it is NOT OK if you find another girl hotter than me. That is the key to her sexuality. If someone gave you better head, whatever. If the sex was better, kinda sucks, … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 05:00 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSo chubby is good but fat is worse? Or fat is better lol? These girls arent really bigger than the chubby girl, they just have that uniquely african fat deposits in their asses. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:56 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSo you ARE saying that Alpha Widow is in fact an innate thing in female nature. It is just that because of how men protect themselves, a guy can at least hope to find a girl who isn't alpha widowed. Hmm. Still Blackpilling. I think the dynamic about porn might be different than you suggest. Porn is a huge problem and is straight up evil. But men are not really having a qualitatively totally different sexual experience with the hotter girl than the less hot girl. And enthusiastic desire for him c… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:49 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadFor men, female performance is just 'be into it'. The more enthusiasm, the higher the score. Generally. There are a few oversexed aficionados that may have more technical demands lol But that is NOT true for a lot of women. Their performance demands are actual performance. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:42 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadCan't follow. Know which things? My first paragraph? Because the second paragraph is what you said is in fact not very common. Not a fact of life. Thank God. Hoping you arent taking that back haha | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:40 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadOk...and I am so gonna regret this...but...I...can't...stop... If that is 'chubby', then what is 'fat' for you? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:37 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThat's a whole other thing. Is there ever gonna be a point where sex is not a graded performance sport for one gender and not the other lol? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:36 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYeah, it is OK to me that some guys are universally hotter in many respects. Whatever. That is life. It works both ways with both genders. But the idea that because of their hot alphaness some guys create qualitatively different sexual experiences, i.e. a whole other thing, in almost any woman that you can never hope to create would be very hard to accept. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:35 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYeah, I get what you are saying in the first paragraph. And if what you say in the second is true, then men and women both have similar worries about things sometimes. Not gonna say equal because who knows. But can compare. But if the CHad and Alpha Widow thing were really common in women, then men's worries would be on a whole other level. Wouldn't even be worries. It would just be a brutal fact of life to somehow accept and process. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:33 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWell the hard to take part was that this was not really about types (though they exist) or idiosyncratic compatibility. Rather the guy that could do this to one woman could do it to many, and most guys can never generate that quality of desire in any woman they are with. I have no idea how true or untrue it is. But if true and common, would be Blackpilling. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:29 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI could have been more clear. The real issue was their suggestion that while sometimes 'types' can do this to a woman, it is actually more based on there being a rare class of men who can do it for most women. And thus most men cannot expect to ever do it for any woman, type or no type. No idea how true that part is. But that is the hard to take idea. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:23 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat Megathreadthat's what does it for you? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:20 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadBut I think it is an open question how true this really is. There are billions of women, so some will feel this way. There's at least girl for any type of dynamic. But is this really that common? I dunno. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:20 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadBut whatever women's perceptions, the reality is that there isn't really this sharp divide in the quality of male lust and attraction at some rare level of hotness and allure. And other things can compensate. You can feel more raw lust for the Becky who is really into you and sex with you than for the Stacy who is starfishing. Believing that even with love as a compensation in other areas, women can this whole other sexual experience with Chad than you can ever give them is almost Blackpilling. … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:17 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadAs a guy, it's fine to hear that sometimes girls meet the one or even the one that got away. Or that obviously male looks matter just as female looks matter. It gets harder to accept the idea that this is less idiosyncratic, and that there exist a class of men whose looks and alphaness create a qualitatively different sexual experience for most women that most guys will never be able to evoke in their partner. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 04:03 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThe gist of the conversation is that while something similar happens to men, it is on a linear spectrum. There's not this rare threshold of hotness where everything seems to qualitatively change. Moreover, women men find really hot are not rare. The women were saying the rareness of such men makes you want to sell your soul to keep him and make it work. They also talked about how it can sort of ruin other men after that lol I was hoping it would not resonate too much. It is kinda dark and evokes… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:56 AM |
| 1 | Women love chasing men, they just don’t admit it or flat out deny it.That's great. WOmen are on a continuum in terms of how much agreeableness a guy can have before the ick sets in. Generally, there is also a hard relative limit: can't be more agreeable than the girl. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:46 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThe typical age gap in the modern West for marriage has been more like 2-3 years I think. Five is pushing it. But still, a 30 year old woman dating a 35 year old man isn't usually considered to be dating an 'older man'. But if you date a HS freshman girl as a college freshman guy, then you might end up in jail in some states. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:45 AM |
| 3 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWas talking to some women who told me that sometimes they are around or even with a guy they find so physically hot (and whose other traits, at the least, don't torpedo the deal) that it pushes their normally female and reactive sexuality into something more active and male-like. More consistently on. They said the feeling is new and can be intoxicating, making it hard to quit him and making it so that the woman will put up with a lot of bullshit because of the intensity of the male-like sexual … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:43 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt's accepted that a a one to five year gap is not really an older man, depending on the age of the girl and the gap. They are talking about bigger gaps IMO. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:39 AM |
| 1 | Women love chasing men, they just don’t admit it or flat out deny it.A naturally agreeable guy who has learned to be disagreeable when needed, but who doesnt reveal his natural agreeableness around women, is pretty much a fake and putting on an act around women. I think that is bad and will cause other issues. So it's more how a given woman will react to seeing the whole package: Naturally agreeable, but can enforce boundaries and will argue his opinion, if nicely. For some that is great. For many, still can generate an 'ick'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:37 AM |
| 1 | Women love chasing men, they just don’t admit it or flat out deny it.I get that. But most women probably already didn't find them that attractive by then. But yeah, if he was say super hot so it balanced it out, then you are left to confront the problems. There's a tragic element to female mate choice instincts in a modern environment. A man who is naturally high in agreeableness on the Big 5 Scale, but has also learned to tactically override the tendency when needed, is the ideal female partner. But she probably will lack desire for him. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:31 AM |
| 1 | Women love chasing men, they just don’t admit it or flat out deny it.That may be an after the fact rationalization for an instinctive feeling in women. They aren't attracted to agreeable guys for evolutionary reasons, and due to sexual polarity and the like. It just seems weak. And weak isn't manly. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:23 AM |
| 4 | Older man/younger woman relationships are idealSure. But that probably tends to have a shelf life. At least in today's climate, there's a good chance he ages into a dead zone of attractiveness to her for a while at a time when she is still more universally hot. This can be bad news. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:18 AM |
| 1 | Women love chasing men, they just don’t admit it or flat out deny it.I think there is a continuum. And machismo and assholery can sort of blend into one another. In general, if you use Big 5 psychology, women do not like men more agreeable than them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:16 AM |
| 1 | Older man/younger woman relationships are idealHow much older? But here's the thing. We still generally go into relationships with the idea that if this works it could be forever. There are issues with large age gaps as you get to the tail end of forever. I agree that for fucking around, as long as the guy is still hot in her eyes, there is something to be said on both sides for older man/younger women. There is political pressure against it because of the above point (and other factors) that IMO is making it harder for younger women to find… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:12 AM |
| 1 | Women love chasing men, they just don’t admit it or flat out deny it.The bad boy thing is a complex topic when you deep dive into it. But ofc this is all on a continuum like all things. So the degree of bad boy a woman needs varies. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 03:08 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI get it. I thought you basically didnt know him. And I know what you mean by platonic. I just meant that strictly speaking male friends are rarely truly platonic on the male end. If he has (in his mind) better options he might not sleep with the girl if she throws herself at him. But even if he is pretty far out of her league, if at some point he is horny and she is his best option and openly available, then he'll sleep with her. Some girls truly are in a no-go zone for men sexually, though the… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 02:46 AM |
| 1 | Fear mongering women over “dying alone”I'm just the messenger here and trying to outline some common arguments I hear lol But no, many in TRP argue that while only 20% of men can be found truly sexually desirable, of course women date more than 20% of men. But they do it for other reasons, and those relationships tend to involve the woman extracting resources from the man. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 02:39 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt's rarely platonic with guys. I think what you are more worried about is that he doesn't find you relationship material. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 02:35 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSomething new came out? I didn't call it bunk at the time, but I always felt we needed an explanation for the obviously problematic math. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/04/24 02:33 AM |
| 4 | Women today are the ones slut shaming men and trying to control men's bodies.I live in China and lived in Korea for a long time too. Also Eastern EUrope. Someone was telling me Latin America is different. I don't know. Never been there or heard much about pasport bros going there. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 05:04 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Yeah, there is an argument to be made that these are all regrettable side effects of other traits men evolved that were necessary for group survival, including women's. But once technology put us beyond that, women are kinda like 'well if those traits aren't needed, then why the fuck should we put up with the downsides one second longer?' | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 04:53 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I'm not sure if you are arguing that sex makes men more likely to exploit than women with the same power, or that it makes the exploitation worse, or both. I'd also advance the idea that even without the sex angle, men might be more inclined to exploit simply due to biology. More aggression. Less agreeableness. More desire for dominance. Less empathy and compassion. All baked into hormones and DNA. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 04:42 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?But wouldnt that just be how you will exploit, and a woman will exploit for something else? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 04:34 PM |
| 2 | Women love chasing men, they just don’t admit it or flat out deny it.I think women are aware. But they feel they have a tough choice. So many of the guys who would otherwise be good partners just are not sexually desirable to them. So what they gonna do? Imagine a world where almost all of the women would be horrible partners, and the best partners would be gay men. Does that mean you consider a gay relationship at all as an option? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 04:28 PM |
| -2 | Fear mongering women over “dying alone”It is manipulation. But in the view of the manipulators, it is benevolent. Women can truly lower artificially inflated standards and find the guys that will commit to them truly attractive. Then everyone can be happier. But there is definitely some contradiction and incoherence on whether women are naturally and intractably so selective that only 20% of men can ever be attractive to them. Or whether this is just because of artificial inflation due to OLD, modernity, female culture and so on and … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 04:24 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadAn inevitable downside of any thriving culture is that you need to provide the roles and guidance that the typical masses need. This will always hinder and frustrate the atypical members to some degree. And that is OK. But it cannot be too hindering or cruel. Tricky balance. So yeah, the expectation that the woman is the primary childcare provider is going to cause problems for women who want to marry, have kids but don't want to do more than 50/50 on childcare. But that's how it goes. Will frus… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 04:02 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt may take restructuring. I also believe that most women actually do want kids and do want to take a fair bit of time off to raise them. But they do not want that to mean their man has any financial leverage over them to abuse. And they do not want it to ghettoize their career such that they can never do valuable or interesting work as they get older and work more and more. If we can somehow address that, I think a lot might improve. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 03:46 PM |
| 0 | Fear mongering women over “dying alone”The logic is that BOTH genders are much happier in general if they pair up. But that women and their self-inflated standards are causing the pairing rate to drop, while at the same time their behavior is making pairing with many of them (even if you can) not worth it for men, even granting how a good pairing is beneficial to men. Thus they are trying to remind women of the value of a intimate partnership with men so that women will adapt realistic standards and change their behavior so as to fac… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 03:17 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadHope so. I mean on TFR my overriding belief is that we just don't know right now. So I speculate, but I reject arguments with certainty that it is this or that. It may have little to do with changes in gender dynamics or behavior. COuld be economic. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:46 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat Megathreadhaha well this is more true of a certain class of women I meet online. It's harder for me to say more broadly. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:36 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI cannot argue with that logic! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:34 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat Megathreadironic? because TFR is hitting everywhere. Maybe Martian immigrants? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:24 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThey are just incapable of doing the hypothetical. And they have unexpressed priors. But they are right in the sense that it will never go to zero. It will go back up. It is all about how much damage before then, and how ugly forcing it back up could be. Women in particular should worry about that and thus should be in the lead on the TFR issue. Start naming your price because you gotta have kids. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:23 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI think it is the latter. Some part of them is saying that if we can't get right treatment from men (in their minds) then fuck it. Let the world burn. What is the point of continuing the human species if it isn't worthy of continuing? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:16 PM |
| 2 | Women today are the ones slut shaming men and trying to control men's bodies.I can't speak to passport bros in latin america. I do have knowledge of Asia and Eastern Europe. . | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:14 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThat's a coherent statement. But many seem to add the idea that everything will be fine, as well. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 12:05 PM |
| 7 | Women today are the ones slut shaming men and trying to control men's bodies.If they want hot guys, then how is this different? Most passport bros are not hot guys. That's why they are passport bros. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 11:50 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Fair enough. That makes more sense. I forgot about the interest young girls show in playing mommy and such. I was thinking more of some sort of explicit download. And that is what it would take with men. But I imagine a man could fasttrack learning this stuff once his wife gets pregnant. I do think women should be expected to do the vast majority of childcare in the first year. It is just better for the baby. Most women want to do it too, IMO. But they want the right conditions to make it possib… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 10:56 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadBut how much education does one need to understand the basic math that you cannot run subreplacement TFR FOREVER? I dunno. I have really put that question to a lot of women and framed it very carefully. And they still say it doesn't matter. The math goes to zero. Zero. How hard is that to see lol? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 10:51 AM |
| 2 | The lies growing upStart? I haven't stopped. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 10:42 AM |
| 8 | Women love chasing men, they just don’t admit it or flat out deny it.The ideal relationship for the typical man and woman is where he fully meets her core hypergamous needs, and this isn't necessarily economic. But she looks up to him and admires him and feels he is ultimately stronger than her mentally, emotionally and physically. Her infatuation with him is greater and more on the surface, those his love for her may run just as deep but is a little more subdued. That said, life is often about making non-ideal situations work since so many of them are just that.… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 10:39 AM |
| 5 | Women today are the ones slut shaming men and trying to control men's bodies.Can a mediocre man date casually in Costa Rica and get hot girls as enthusiastic sex partners who have real desire and who are not there for the hope of a lifestyle bump, citizenship, better gifts than local men can provide? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 10:33 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I dunno about the childcare part because at least in my experience nobody really prepares girls or boys for it. Advice and help come in once somebody gets pregnant. It's a weakness of mine (and also sometimes a strength) that when it comes to gender I can want to believe some aspects of the more Woo Woo divine masculine/feminine stuff, including overall equality and complementarity. At the same time, when on other topics, I am pretty brutal about acknowledging that nature does not do equal. If e… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 10:30 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt could well be too much Reddit for me. But I haven't seen nearly as many women talking about TFR as men, even in other venues. But again, no idea what is representative. And I do keep in mind that nobody really seems to fully understand the current TFR crisis. So maybe changes in gender dynamics have very little to do with it. It could primarily be economic. WHo knows? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 10:12 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI assume he is pulling his weight? I honestly think men (and women) should be prepared to go basically sexless for YEARS around the birth of kids if it happens to play out like that. Sometimes it does. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 09:55 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThe overpopulation thing is somewhat of a red herring in this context. I am talking about the women who feel that not having a replacement birthrate is OK forever, even after any possible overpopulation situation was taken care of. This is such an insane position that I have to try to imagine some possible reasons for it lol As for sexually excluded men, I am talking about men who basically almost never touch a woman without money changing hands. And who certainly don't have a serious romantic r… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 09:43 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Ah. Yes. I am not sure how much of this is at play anymore. And I dont know how much I buy into the flexing thing. But of course feminism cant succeed without male acquiescence at the least, and some key active support from men, too. And I have long wondered about the role of powerful men with daughters in all of that. But I am not so cynical that I believe love and concern for their daughters was not motivation, rather than it being some sort of flex on other men or not wanting to support them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 09:36 AM |
| 30 | Women today are the ones slut shaming men and trying to control men's bodies.I don't think women see themselves as doing the same thing as passport bros at all. They are in their natural SMP making the best of things that they can using whatever tools other people use. The vast majority of passport bros are not really going overseas because the women may have different values or morals. No. They are going to get hotter girls than they could here. To purposely leave home and move to another nation just to get a hotter girl strikes women as the height of superficial. And t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 09:32 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI'm having the very provisional thought that the genders are sort of in something akin to a labor bargaining situation. In this light, of course intelligent women know that at some point we need replacement population. They also know that too many sexually excluded men would be very dangerous. But they aren't gonna admit to points that would weaken their bargaining position in the middle of a negotiation, so stop asking them to do that. The threat of these things is part of what would motivate m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 09:14 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Not sure I follow the logic here. Men flexing on other men? But I have long held the belief that in many things the right framing is not Men vs. Women but High Value Men vs. Women vs. Rest of Men. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 09:09 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadAh. I see. I can see how you would read that sentence that way. Ambiguities of English. And yes, your reading was technically correct. But... | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 09:04 AM |
| 1 | How does the average woman feel about sex?The elephant in the room question is the extent to which women's sex drive is impacted by the partner they have or potential partner they are considering. Obviously, men are impacted by that as well. But there may be some truth to Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks and women's attraction being much more bifurcated between guys who make them truly desirous, and guys that do not. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 09:00 AM |
| 1 | How does the average woman feel about sex?I somewhat disagree. Maybe I have too much experience with social sciences. I think you have to take in information from all sources on these things, from literature to religion to social sciences to anecdotes to what your eyes show you. And then there is no perfect formula for how to put them all together and draw conclusions. It is more art than science. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 08:57 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI dont follow. I compared 10th vs. 10th and then top man vs anyone else. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 08:51 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadDespite what Blackpillers say, male SMV is by no means all about appearance, even if the appearance element has increased. So yeah, as a woman, it must be annoying as fuck to be so judged on your appearance alone. I also dont engage in typical male sexual projection. Having a ton of options you find sexually repellent does not really mean you have options. It is a negative, not a positive. Still, I think I'd probably rather be say a 10th percentile SMV rank woman than man. Not that being either … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 08:43 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI do know that. But in the bigger picture, there may be less of a divide between attractive and unattractive in women. More of a continual gradient. Less of them pooled at the bottom. And also less divide in terms of what policies help HVW at the expense of LVW than the opposite. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 08:34 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThere's a lot we do not know for sure about women's attraction thresholds, including what is nature and what is nurture. But they are certainly more selective to some extent, and there is more of an absolute 'would fuck/would never touch' binary to it. So with little regulation, the SMP will tend to create a bigger divergence between sexual winners and losers among men than among women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 08:28 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThere's more to it than who gets custody. And the percentages matter. 'Most' covers a lot of ground. There are also conditions of custody. Child support. There's also data showing that way more women end up with a bigger lifestyle hit after divorce than men. But the clickbait newscycle tends to never parse stats well or with nuance. How many married up in the first place? On stuff like this, I tend to try to find experts I trust and go with their summations. But I keep those opinions lightly hel… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 08:24 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadHonestly, I'm not an expert in US divorce laws. I have seen various experts I trust say that overall divorce with children can be somewhat unfair to men. However, much of the reason is that this is often in the best interest of the kids. One of those situations with no perfect solution. I tend to believes in this overall summary, but have an open mind. And yeah, I have heard those figures. But that isn't necessarily inconsistent with divorce with children being at least somewhat tilted against m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 08:15 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadTrue. But wasnt really thinking of just one thing. In general there may be more of a tension between the interests of high and low value men than of high and low value women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 08:04 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI think his videos often have lasting value. I have uncovered lots of interesting source material from his videos. Him taking manosphere talking points at too much face value on a couple of things is my major gripe here, and not something that infects most of his stuff. The divorce stuff seems dated, as well. The divorce courts WERE antimale in the past at some point, but at this point I do not think marriage itself is that risky for anyone. There are many effective ways to protect yourself if y… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 08:03 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYeah, well he isn't into what he would call excessive hedonism. But he may also be making the mistake of believing that there are male vs. female interests whereas maybe the reality is more like, at a very low resolution, high value men, women, the rest of men--three groups, not two. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 07:52 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt started off as speculative alternative history. So yeah, he is trying to play God here. He is gonna be wrong most of the time. One has to accept that. Over time, some of his videos have been more explicitly predictive, like this one. I think he is trying to warn people. This is one of his weaker projects in many respects. He takes way too many manosphere talking points at face value, as if they were facts. I tend to think there is something behind many of these points, but I wish he'd dig a b… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 07:50 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadHis stuff is dense with a million semi-baked ideas sometimes. Missed that one. Is it early on? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 07:41 AM |
| – | Why does society only entertain the idea of choice when it's comes to women??Where do you live that they force you to fuck women at gunpoint? I'm moving! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 07:40 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadHe's not a grifter at all IMO. He's a sincere truth searcher with a lot of curiosity. The issue is that he may lack the intellectual firepower for a lot of the material he deals with, especially at the depths he likes to play in. He isn't stupid, but he takes on the really big questions and ideas with some of the biggest and deepest sources. It is not easy terrain to navigate with proper nuance. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 07:39 AM |
| 10 | Women love chasing men, they just don’t admit it or flat out deny it.Both genders do this with respect to people they find sexually attractive. The question is always who and what swath of the population each gender finds attractive, and how attractive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 07:36 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI try to avoid the US culture and political wars. Everything that isn't within the domain of the modern left wokeys is considered right wing. This guy wasn't really on the political spectrum at first, though I'd say he has become more overtly US right wing over time on some things. I often don't agree with a lot of his reasoning or conclusions. But he tends to bring in stuff from a bunch of interesting sources and opinions and smash it all together. I see value in that even if his thinking is so… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 07:31 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat Megathreadhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4dxsmlPguY Anyone seen this? Is it even discussable here? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 06:14 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadBut even these heuristics can deceive. I have a big, broad frame. I am 6'3". I always had nice calves. I'm also overweight. But I've always been weak as fuck for my size. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 06:13 AM |
| 1 | The idea that women are naturally not attracted to most men or that they naturally have a weaker sex drive is nonsense.I would also add that the nature of female hypergamy and the degree of female sexual selectivity ARE the big open questions of the day IMO. This includes what the biological baseline is, and how and in what ways culture and environment can influence that biology. I do not think we know. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 04:21 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Well, I think it depends on which ancestors you are referring to. The argument I am making is that prehistoric peoples might have been so underdeveloped cognitively compared to us, on a biological level, that they would not behave the same way. In fact, they could not even maintain modern conditions if handed to them. So if we are trying to infer underlying common instincts on a biological level, this idea raises the already high level of complexity. At what point are our ancestors similar enoug… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 04:03 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I have been reading arguments asserting that the idea that evolution slowed to a crawl after the stone age is totally incorrect: In fact, it accelerated greatly. Thus, even though the 10,000 years since the agricultural revolution are a short period evolutionarily speaking, some human populations may have changed significantly since then, especially in terms of intelligence. So even if we have similar instincts to stone age people, at the biological level, the combination of low IQ and these ins… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 03:15 AM |
| 1 | The idea that women are naturally not attracted to most men or that they naturally have a weaker sex drive is nonsense.No. There is an interplay between nature and nurture, but the OP and quotations underplay biology. Yes, in theory, sufficiently strong and targeted cultural influence can move the needle on biology more than most people think. But this is not generally sustainable, and things will return closer to the biological 'normal' when the influence is removed. It is not an apples to apples comparison, but still, it is pretty clear the male sex drive is typically much stronger on a biological level. I als… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:34 AM |
| – | Why does society only entertain the idea of choice when it's comes to women??Because sometimes there are no perfect choices, only least bad ones. Mating has never been solely an individual thing. Society has a stake. Yes, unilateral abortion options without the man being able to opt out is innately unfair. But every other options is worse. Maybe if we become post scarcity, or we adopt another mating and child raising paradigm, we could be more fair on this issue. But for now, this is how it has to be. The fairness aspect is that both sides know what the rules are when th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:28 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?If I had to make a best guess right now, this would probably be my highest odds answer. People with power tend to use it to their own advantage. Then layer on the fact that males probably evolved instincts that make them more likely to do this with greater intensity. The instincts were evolved for other reasons, but they tend to make men strive for dominance more than women. However, since no timely policy measures that I am deciding depend on me making a call, I like to keep exploring issues fr… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:22 AM |
| – | "More women should make the first move" yeah, and it would still be like TinderIf you do speed dating and invert the roles such that the men stay at tables and the women move from table to table and are supposed to initiate, maybe choose which table, etc. then women become less selective. How much this translates to real life is hard to say. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/04/24 02:10 AM |
| 1 | "The Ick" is just another way of saying "a turn-off"I was addressing raw levels of sexual selectivity, not what each gender selects for or fetishizes or inflicts on the other. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 04:17 PM |
| 2 | "The Ick" is just another way of saying "a turn-off"SMV or mate value framings work fine when applied at the macro level. Walking around trying to determine your SMV and hers is stupid. Relatively small shifts at the margins can actually have outsized impacts on an SMP. These patterns can be hard to see by touching grass at your local Wal*Mart. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 03:41 PM |
| – | "More women should make the first move" yeah, and it would still be like TinderStudies and experiments have shown that being in the initiator role, at least in person, tends to reduce selectivity. Now, whether that would hold long term is hard to say. And it wouldn't reduce female selectivity to male levels necessarily. And then how much any of this holds true online is unknown. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 03:38 PM |
| 1 | "The Ick" is just another way of saying "a turn-off"But in the grand scheme of things, specifics like footbinding don't move the needle. It's more about how much higher in SMV rank (within your own gender) women will insist on mating. And if too high, then not only do the men who do mate feel it is unfair, but it also means way more men who do not mate. And less marriages and families and so on. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 03:29 PM |
| 3 | "The Ick" is just another way of saying "a turn-off"In the end, this all turns on how much of women's greater selectivity is innate and intractable, and how much has been increased by modern culture and conditions. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 03:17 PM |
| – | Men struggle so much because they are in constant contradiction.This. There are various coherent opinion packages possible within that laundry list of opinions. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 03:04 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Fair enough. But it is far from clear how modern Western society adapts to a much lower heterosexual pairing rate. So on that front, even if it made sense personally for men to be more selective, if the did so we would face the same issue, but intensified. We are just talking here. Maybe the 'solution' has to be an emergent one. There's no way to predict ahead of time. Society will have to go through some serious pain and dysfunction to make the next paradigm change that works better with female… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 02:55 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Well, some men are stupid. No surprise. The real issue isn't necessarily how women prioritize their mate choice criteria. If the highest mate value woman wants to choose the hottest guy over the richest guy, whatever. The issue is more a lot of women not choosing any of their options. Men tend to choose an option they have. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 02:47 PM |
| 2 | "The Ick" is just another way of saying "a turn-off"It's because, like many things on PPD, it goes back to men being upset about what they see as the unfairness of women being too much more sexually selective than men. The idea is that women have way more turn offs, and way more of those are decisive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 02:42 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Thanks. Ok. That straightens out the incoherence. You'd said before men and women were comparably selective. Must have misspoke, so to speak. And yeah, even if conditions changed where women had less absolute need to be super selective, our instincts are what our instincts are. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 02:37 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Women were going to join the workforce almost inevitably due to other considerations. I am not saying that marital rape was not a big issue for women. But you didnt explain how women can be comparably sexually selective to men, but them being free to choose will tank pairing rates. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 02:30 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I don't think marital rape was decisive in women returning to the workforce. I also don't understand how you could think female sexual selectivity is going to be comparable to male. Free men still had very high pairing rates. If women are comparably selective, then freeing them would lower the pairing rate a bit. But not really tank it. The math isn't adding up there. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 02:17 PM |
| – | A question for menThere is likely an asymmetry in feelings about male vs. female promiscuity on an evolved instinct level. And both genders feel it, though men more strongly. But it is unclear how strong and universal the basic instinct is. Culture layered a lot on top of it, often at times when culture had good reasons. Many of those reasons are gone or lessened now. So outside of the manosphere where people are overstating the intensity of the basic instinct in an attempt to weaponize it to alter female behavio… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 02:05 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?This marital rape thing is a total red herring. It's bad. I'm against it. It has generally been stopped. It is not that difficult a problem to tackle conceptually, if perhaps more so practically. Very high levels of intractable female hypergamy and/or sexual selectivity is a whole different thing. I'm not saying one thing is worse than the other. Each is 'worse' by different criteria. How sexually selective do YOU think women will turn out to be as their material need for men keeps decreasing? D… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 01:53 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Even if widespread in the US before 1993, marital rape would be a different sort of issue. Less existentially threatening to basic social functioning. More morally repugnant, though. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 01:43 PM |
| – | In the US, looking good is more beneficial for men than women.Nobody sane ever thought anybody's looks didn't matter at all. But the OP is conflating looking presentable and looking sexually attractive to the other gender. I think the latter still matters more for women than for men. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 01:39 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I'm generally focused on gender dynamics in the modern west on PPD. Female hypergamy is a possible danger to the functioning of the current social order. There could be male threats to that functioning too. I think male underperformance, checking out, etc. is also a danger. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 01:35 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?It's a threat to the existing widescale monogamy paradigm. It is possible that if female attraction turns out to be that innately and intractably selective that some other mating and child raising paradigm could be created. So long as the whole house doesn't burn down, I definitely feel that a woman's right to not sleep with men she doesnt find attractive trumps any male desire for a partner. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 01:28 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Well neither gender's attraction patterns seem infinitely plastic. But it is the female pattern that seems like the much greater threat to widespread monogamy and high pairing rates in an egalitarian society. Men are, at the end of the day, more likely to accept their best option. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 01:17 PM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Interesting distinction. And no, I'm trying NOT to narrow things down. I dont really see this as a debate or something that is supposed to reach a conclusion. Not as if people are likely to change other people's minds here. Not immediately. So I'm interested in any takes on it. Unclear to me how much that structural vs incidental distinction holds in times where a certain relatively consistent level of conflict is expected, though. This is funnily sort of in the same ballpark as my mom's argumen… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 01:13 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?These are solid points. There may also be a modern Western overprioritization of concepts like 'agency' and 'status equality' and stuff like that. There may also have been more of a need for there to be a single captain of a family who could make decisive decisions for it, and that could be held responsible for the whole family's actions as well. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 12:50 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I was getting at something deeper. I want a gender equal society. But any social structure, no matter how innately right or good, still has to function on its own sufficiently well, and compete with other social structures. So within our liberal enlightenment structures, in many ways one would prefer not to give a shit who people sleep with or mate with or have children with. Or if they don't. Ideally this is an individual decision. But that only works so long as the aggregate of those decisions… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 12:28 PM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Because attraction has patterns despite also being individual and subjective. Society needs some sort of functional mating and child rearing paradigm. Each gender's behavior will tend to tilt in ways that are sexually rewarded by the other gender. It's all part of a system that has to work reasonably well at the systemic level. Right now, widespread monogamy is still the operant mating paradigm. If you have complete and true legal equality, and men and women are also functionally and innately eq… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 11:51 AM |
| 3 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Fair enough. Interesting hypothesis, but sort of incomplete if you don't actually address the issue of whether society is also actually tilting towards women in some ways or just seeming to. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 11:46 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I dunno. This is why I am asking. You have argued that some periods and places were much more horrible for women. I'm wondering if the opposite has ever been true. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 11:44 AM |
| 3 | Women have become increasingly emboldened by our gynocentric society and more often than not are rude and disrespectful for no reason even when you are not hitting on themNot at all. As I phrased it, this is not something I necessarily buy, but it is an argument I wanted to throw out there and get some feedback on. That IS purple pilled in its essence. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 11:43 AM |
| 3 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?There's a lot more to the treatment of women than who they got to mate with. But on that point, yes their selectivity was somewhat oppressed. But I am not nearly as certain as you are that women are innately as selective as you make them out to me, i.e. that with no need for men and complete sexual freedom, 50% of men would basically be incels. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 08:29 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I think that sexually, on a lizard brain level, women are still attracted to a lot of qualities in men that are at the very least in tension with complete gender equality. I think many of the definitions of hypergamy are bad, but it is pointing at a real thing. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 08:14 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Are there are any cultures or periods that were a lot more horrible for men than women? Or is the range from about even to way worse for women? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 08:11 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Well you have such radically different characterizations of history in terms of gender balance. On one extreme, you have some people who say men basically abused and mass raped women for all of history. On the other, you have the argument that even if they lacked power, women were generally more protected and better treated than the men of their own level. I'm just trying to sort how I feel about this. What it might mean for NOW is a whole other thing. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 08:09 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?If the OP post was sloppy, my bad. But as can be seen in posts throughout this thread, I honestly do not know what I think. I am often playing Devil's Advocate or using other people's arguments I have heard to test reactions and counters. I assure you I am in good faith. If that isn't enough, then I guess we are done. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:58 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Sometimes we have to work within the limits that exist. This is too big to solve like a math problem with perfect data. I don't want to overload the word 'oppressed' either. I have used other words, as well. People can define oppressed however they want so long as they are clear about. And they can use other words. Various thinkers have characterized the history of gender relations in radically different ways. I'm not sure what I think, and to help me think it through myself, I just wanted to op… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:54 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I'm not angry at anyone. I've heard radically different arguments about how one would characterize gender relations throughout history and I'm just trying to work out what I think myself. Discussion with others is a good way to do that. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:48 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Who was killing whom before no fault? I might rephrase your main point to something like figuring out how to live in a society where women are complete equals is relatively new for everyone and a work in progress. Women also have instincts that did not evolve for gender equality and sometimes those create problems, too. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:45 AM |
| 3 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?So the argument here would be that the HUMAN tendency for the more powerful to exploit the less so crosses gender lines. Nobody was morally superior, men or women. Men had more chances to be more powerful, and when they were, they exploited anyone they could, men or women. When women could exploit people, they did it just as much. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:43 AM |
| 1 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?What conditions would cause what levels of alienation and loneliness may differ among the genders. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:40 AM |
| 3 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?Men and women are biologically different. I do not think it is sexist to assert the truth. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:26 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I think that at the least prehistoric people lacked the social technology to fully oppress and exploit women to the extent some other societies at least seem to have. Half your population is women. They live and sleep with you. Most are kin. Just logistically, even if the males there were Satan spawn, it seems impossible to completely disregard their feelings and ideas and not become miserable yourselves. Women have some talent for making men they despise miserable when they can. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:25 AM |
| -1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Those are interesting points about the male downsides. Kinda what I wanted to get at. Women had the chain pregnancies and difficult births and childcare role. And maybe they were subservient in a certain sense, but they were also more innately valued and protected perhaps. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:15 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Hmm. If we throw in prehistory as 99% of our existence, things may get more complicated. Then again, I have been reading arguments that evolution accelerated since agriculture, and that even though the post-agriculture period is a very small part of our existence, humans changed a lot cognitively in that period. So basically, in the ways that matter, prehistoric humans were not us and you cannot really think of that period as human history in terms of something that would be relevant to how mode… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:12 AM |
| 2 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?You are only presenting one extreme option. Another is that she suffered MORE because of her female sensibilities, and male sensibilities would not have suffered AS MUCH. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 07:00 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I think maybe you are over fixating on one term in the title: oppressed. But it isn't mean to be that kind of formal debate. And I use other terms like advantaged or exploited or better life elsewhere. The real point is who had it better, I suppose. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:59 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Well, it isn't as if we are limited to one discussion. So we could talk about the first part purely in terms of getting at the truth. Then decide if it holds any relevance to the second. Some women might argue that millennia of unneeded and gratuitous male exploitation of women reveals men's true nature, and that is important to know now and in the future. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:57 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?What conditions existed in prehistory are always contentious topics. Opinions seem to vary wildly. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:55 AM |
| 3 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Yes, but the counterargument would be that if throughout almost all time and history men exploited women MORE than was necessary, while holding back any compensation for women's tougher biological role, then why should women trust men now? Through some combination of miracles and factors, women got men to take away the boot, perhaps temporarily. But it wasn't through some profound change in male nature. So women should always be wary and should feel no guilt IF things were to tilt in female adva… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:53 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?I guess this is a more general discussion than whether it is realistic to have expected a given set of men in a given place not to do this or that. Generally implicit in the critique that men oppressed women is that it wasn't necessary, or that men could have compensated women for what necessary oprression there was. There's an element of culpability here. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:49 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?This is not a strict formal debate, which are generally stupid anyways. So feel free to define any terms any way you like. We just talking here. And yeah, whether you would have preferred to be a man or woman is a decent working definition of advantaged. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:47 AM |
| 3 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?How are women mentally weaker than men exactly? And it is at least theoretically possible for the gender with more aggregate hard power to actually lead less advantaged lives overall than the gender with less power. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:43 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Regardless of the title, the idea is to think about things holistically. Depending on one's definition of oppressed, one gender could be more oppressed in most ways and yet still have overall advantaged lives to the other. Many possibilities. Freedom. Legal equality. Agency. Self-actualization. These are pretty modern concepts and may not represent the peak of happiness in times past. Or maybe even today. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:41 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?You can be property and still have a better life than someone who isn't. I'm not disregarding your point and it matters. But a single point is not decisive here IMO. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:38 AM |
| 2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Not necessarily. But the 1960s in the West seem to be some sort of inflection point. But feel free to comment on the now as well as the past. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:37 AM |
| -2 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?It is a bit of a modern take to view legal and political equality as the sine qua non of being equally advantaged. It is possible to be advantaged overall even if legally inferior. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:35 AM |
| 1 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Well, it is you that are adding this requirement for some sort of perfect accuracy. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:34 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?Maybe. That is a fairly modern pov that might not be relevant. Actualization is by no means the most important thing in a simple life. There were roman slaves who didnt want to be freed because their lives as valued and rich slaves were better than freedom in poverty, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:33 AM |
| 0 | To what extent have women been oppressed in history?At the risk of retroactively misapplying modern morality, one still might say that if one gender is more disadvantaged by biology, then the other is obligated to balance the scales. I would say that women needed to have that many children. Their societies needed to thrive and survive or the women were gonna suffer, too. But maybe men could have done more to balance things out given that women had to spend so much time pregnant and raising young kids? It probably would not have been efficient or … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 06:32 AM |
| 2 | We talk about women selecting toxic men a lot, but we hardly seem to glance at the thought of men actively selecting toxic womenIn general, the argument is that dumb men ignore female toxicity by overprioritizing sexual access to the hottest girl they can get. But with women, the argument is that they are not ignoring asshole traits, they are actually attracted to them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 05:23 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI didn't say they did, only that they might. Men evolved dual reproductive strategies: high and low investment. Male preferences evolved to meet both strategies, the latter of which does not involve spending any time with the woman necessarily. Thus male preferences are overwhelmingly about fertility cues. Women ONLY have the high investment strategy, which in the case of humans, tends to require paternal investment as well. So female instincts entirely evolved for having to actually live with t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 05:21 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI dont think it is fundamentally different now. A lot of men here just oversimplify the dynamic of what women wear, just as silly women try to deny that male preferences have nothing to do with it. The reality is, as usual, far more complex if you take a deep dive into it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 05:06 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat Megathreadah. dont know how tall she is. but whatever. women are humans with evolved sexual instincts that don't perfectly map on to ideal partners any more than men's do. OK. Maybe a bit more. But still, why should we expect female sexuality to be a paragon of high Christian morality? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 05:05 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadMale attention and preferences do sit at the bottom of the causal pyramid, but there is complete intermediation here. Some women might just want to go for the music. They might be totally asexual. But they will still dress 'slutty' in a club because that is just what you do in clubs. They don't want to stand out. They don't want issues with their Female Social Matrix, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 05:01 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWhy would you think that way? Why would you post about it in that tone? What good does that do you? What good does it do the world? The implication is that there is something wrong with women when it is probably that you are just not attractive. Life can be shitty like that. I really like women. I can probably even attract a few. But I'm genetically incapable of living with one and not making her life miserable. So I will die single. Such is life. It isn't fair. It just is. But I don't whine abo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 04:59 AM |
| 4 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadHe may be a tall chad with a sexy accent. Doesn't change the fact that he is a total failure as a human being. If you engage too long with the worst male and female posters and arguments here, it changes you. Don't look to long into the Abyss because it also looks into you and all that. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 04:57 AM |
| 7 | Women have become increasingly emboldened by our gynocentric society and more often than not are rude and disrespectful for no reason even when you are not hitting on themI guess one argument is that even if we stipulate to the OP's facts--and we do not--this would, in the context of millennia of repression by men, constitute such an incredibly slight temporary overcorrection as to not be worth mentioning. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 04:32 AM |
| 1 | CMV: A man who has done extensive research on women and relationships but has not really been involved with them knows FAR MORE than a man who has lots experience with women without looking at studies and research.These are not exactly analogous. The reader guy is not some monk who has never seen a woman in his life. He just hasn't had a serious relationship. Now, if it were the monk who has never even seen a woman but has read about them vs, the man with extensive relationship experience, now it is the latter no question who knows more. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 04:30 AM |
| 1 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.Saying anything with certainty about the birthrate or male and female attitudes to it is premature. It really remains a mystery. Recent moves could somehow all be about economics. It could be overpopulation. It could be some aspect of gender dynamics. We don't know, which is what the really scary part is. But for those women who feel like even today, for the latest generations in the West, family creation and raising is an unfair deal, what a truly equitable gender deal would look like. One that… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 01:13 AM |
| 0 | CMV: A man who has done extensive research on women and relationships but has not really been involved with them knows FAR MORE than a man who has lots experience with women without looking at studies and research.There are different types of knowing. It would be hard to say which of these two guys knows more about women. They both know different things. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 01:06 AM |
| 1 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.Yes, everyone has to care about the continuation of the species. As to everyone's role, including gay people, that has to be negotiated or decided. If pretending like women don't have to have kids in general is a kind of gender labor bargaining position, OK I guess. But the reality is that one way or another humans will have enough kids again one day. It's just a matter of how. Humans won't go extinct because men and women cannot agree on a fair divide of labor. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/04/24 12:44 AM |
| 1 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.As I said, if this is just a classic overpopulation situation, then not really different. And all is good. But there are a lot of women who insist we never need a replacement birthrate and that it is too much to ever expect that many kids on average from modern women. That is just delusional. Or really bad math skills. At some point you need that 2.1+. So women will have to do their duty to the species. But it's also fair for them to negotiate. What do men need to do so that this is a fair deal?… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 07:46 PM |
| 1 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.Abortion and contraception methods of varying degrees of effectiveness. Having sex less regularly. Pulling out. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 07:40 PM |
| 1 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.Even before birth control, populations naturally lowered birth rates when there was overpopulation. They had there ways. But there was no inherent lack of desire for children. Birth rates naturally climbed when overpopulation conditions went away. Look at the Black Death in Europe. Of course, at some point women do need to have 2-3 kids. And only they can give birth. Men can do as much as they can to balance things out, of course. So if there is more going on than overpopulation, then that is a … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 07:25 PM |
| 1 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.I hear you on that. I tend to have very specific interests when it comes to the gender stuff. More academic, big picture and policy oriented. So I filter out a lot of the extreme stuff. There are men who think they deserve women above their level, or don't know their own level, etc. But overall I think this is more of a red herring. If there is a central issue, and it is unclear there is because everything is unclear about the current SMP, then that issue is more about female selectivity levels.… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 06:25 PM |
| 3 | Which is harder? Stay-at-home Parent? Or sole-provider for a family?Fair enough. What is easier and what is more desirable are not the same thing, for sure. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 06:11 PM |
| 2 | Which is harder? Stay-at-home Parent? Or sole-provider for a family?That's just a different question. I was just discussing what situation was a more difficult job in and of itself. I totally get that women feel that when men had all the power, they didn't take proper care of their women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 05:52 PM |
| 1 | Masculine Aggression Is Not Always The AnswerWell, I suppose women could stop going after money, status, authority and success in men, right? Just kidding around. We all got our evolved instincts. It is what it is. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 05:06 PM |
| 2 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?I've been banned on Reddit while at peak civility. Issues like trans or average population genetic differences are just too sensitive. They have an automoderator that will nuke you, and the manual appeal is just a charade. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 04:33 PM |
| 3 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?I presume you would not be upset by gendered attention that praised you for MASCULINE qualities, though, right? Anyways, I appreciate the exchange of ideas in a civil and good faith manner. But it is probably too dangerous for me to go more deeply into this on Reddit. It is just so easy to get banned over trans discussions. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 04:19 PM |
| 2 | Late stage feminism leads to population collapseThere are too many potential confounding variables IMO to say that female education causes a massive drop in the birthrate in and of itself. Think of all the things that tend to come along with female education, or are needed as a foundation for it. Plus, nobody understands the TFR collapse. It is premature to put it at the feat of gender dynamics. It could be primarily economic. It could be about overpopulation signals--real or somehow mimicked. That is the scary part about the TFR isssue: we d… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 04:01 PM |
| 3 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?Well, there are different types of harassment. Transmen I have talked to say they 'prefer' the kind of basic bullying transmen get to the leering, predatory eyes of sex-hungry males. I think this is also why most of the queer, non-binary people were born women. Not so much about having the masculine roles as escaping issues associated with being female. But yeah, how you describe dysmorphia is not uncommon. At that level, it just feels primal and not about anything more than someone having an in… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:57 PM |
| – | Do you need looks to be sexually attracted to someone?A woman can fall in love and lust with a man that part of her brain objectively recognizes as physically unattractive. But if she does fall for him, and assuming his looks are not initially 'her type', then that still tends to change how she sees him. He usually becomes visually attractive to her. This works with men as well, but not as much. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:50 PM |
| 0 | Masculine Aggression Is Not Always The AnswerIt's also possible that women concluded that making men less attractive was an acceptable price to pay for making them less dangerous. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:46 PM |
| 5 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?It's interesting how you are pushing for a more genderless society. Perhaps if we lived in one, you would not have transitioned. Yeah, at the individual level, there is great variance. But there are still strong patterns. Most FtM trans seem to want to escape social expectations of womanhood rather than really be a traditional male. OTOH most MtF trans seem to relish strong gender roles, but they just think they want the female roles. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:39 PM |
| 2 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?I've been banned twice for saying things about trans lol And generally very respectfully. But I never learn. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:15 PM |
| 4 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?I think the male burden is typically a lot harder for the typical male than the female burden is for the typical female. But women also have greater reproductive costs as well. They are also more vulnerable physically. Hard to add up who is more disadvantaged. But when you are an atypical female, the female burden can really fuck with your head for sure. Like you said, you start to feel like society wants to own your beauty or something. My belief is that there is a kind of trauma reaction to a … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:13 PM |
| 3 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?Because Norah is still a biological woman. So she is experiencing some aspects of male loneliness, but through female 'eyes'. In fact, this may have led her to exaggerate how bad it is. Not that it is great for men, but it is kinda a hell sentence for most women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:05 PM |
| 7 | Is FTM transitions a good example of male loneliness comparative to female loneliness?Just as there is a unique male burden of performance, this is the female one. Be as pretty as you can. Don't be vulgar. Sit like a lady. And so on. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 03:03 PM |
| 24 | Women like men who know more about relationships than they do.Again, women don't really give a shit how you got the skills. They just want the desired traits. Emotional intelligence. Ability to navigate relationships. All valued. They don't care if you are a natural or learned it or whatever. Women like to look up to and admire their man. Now, in terms of how that translates to relationship dynamics and 'leading', well that gets complex. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 02:41 PM |
| 0 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.A lot can happen AFTER the sex drive is sufficiently fulfilled, though. It's a drive. It doesn't always make sense. Often the want and willingness to sacrifice for it is stronger than the actual sexual pleasure justifies. But once sufficiently met, a lot of good things can happen. Love, however you define it. Companionship. So on. Most guys. Even young guys. Just THINK they are all about getting laid. But they are just deranged by an unmet primal desire. Most, once they do get laid, start to see… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 02:24 PM |
| 2 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.Hmm...interesting if somewhat dark take on men. I was thinking of the more straightforward issue for women in that when we have more babies, they have to have them. This is a different direction. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 11:39 AM |
| 1 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.Well, if we really are overpopulated, then the birthrate 'problem' is in fact the solution. And when we get to a sustainable population level, birthrate goes back up. It's just not at all clear to me this is what is going on. I'm doubtful as to how truly overpopulated we are. I also have doubts that, even if we were overpopulated, that is what is driving the TFR crash. But I have an open mind. I dont think anyone understands the TFR issue. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 11:37 AM |
| -1 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.I would say that most men intuitively feel that men and women are supposed to pair up widely with those of relatively similar mate value to form families. So I guess the real male complaint is that women, when 'free', seem to be becoming too sexually selective for this widespread monogamy paradigm to work. I think that in time men could adapt to women choosing men 100% on looks--or even ear and nose size if they wanted--so long as women paired widely and 'fairly'. The idea that a 50th percentile… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 07:23 AM |
| 7 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.I think the main complaint is that in men's minds modern women are becoming TOO selective. Even somewhat sophisticated men get that women's greater reproductive costs mean they should be MORE selective than men, but a lot of men feel women today have gone past that threshold in aggregate. Of course, the counterarguments are also valid. Primarily, there is the argument that nothing has really changed substantively in terms of female selectivity--the internet is just making it seem so. There's als… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 07:14 AM |
| 0 | Men's hatred/disdain for women is due to one simple fact..they don't understand them.Men and women are very different. Racial and ethnic groups hate one another for far less differences than gender differences. On the other hand, unlike population groups, you cannot separate men from women. So the genders also have a lot that bind them. This was the error in trying to treat gender like class, race, etc. The genders cannot be separated. Male sexuality is obviously more straigtforward than female sexuality, with far fewer internal tensions and contradictions, especially in a novel… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 07:01 AM |
| 1 | Which is harder? Stay-at-home Parent? Or sole-provider for a family?Feels pretty close at this point. But those kids gonna get older and life at home easier, while the worker's body just gets older and things get harder. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 01:24 AM |
| 6 | Which is harder? Stay-at-home Parent? Or sole-provider for a family?Exactly. If you have triplets, being a SAHM when they are a year old might be like a tour in Vietnam. But kids age. So having 3 twenty-five year olds isnt so hard. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 01:22 AM |
| 5 | Which is harder? Stay-at-home Parent? Or sole-provider for a family?It is entirely contextual. One can surmise that if you have a sole provider, then there is a a good chance that the job pays well and is likely somewhat difficult. But of course maybe that isn't true and the family is just living cheaply off of one average job's paycheck. Similarly, being a SAHM is contextual. What ages are the kids? How many? But in general there is not enough truly productive work for a woman to do at home for her whole adult life. So in some overall sense, given average famil… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/04/24 01:20 AM |
| 2 | Most men allow themselves to be used by women just to get sex and validation in return.Not sure that is true. But it is a pretty dark take on the genders. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 05:01 PM |
| 2 | Most men allow themselves to be used by women just to get sex and validation in return.If men are that innately bad on such a large scale, then humanity is just fucked. Women should basically not care about the future of the species since any future will just involve mass abuse of women by men. Women should just have a children IF they happen to find one of the few good men, and they both happen to want to have kids for their own sake. But don't worry about society, humanity or anything like that because it is doomed by men's innate aggression and immorality. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 04:44 PM |
| 1 | Most men allow themselves to be used by women just to get sex and validation in return.Hmm...this is a case where it is hard to fully get your argument without some ballpark numbers. The worst men are worse than the worst women, in general. Male variability theory cuts both ways. So there should be more men who are cut out of the mating game than women, beyond the whole 'wombs have value; sperm is cheap' thing. But I'm not sure I grasp the kinda numbers you are talking about, and to what extent you think the cause is genetic or environmental. You seem to be suggesting maybe MOST m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 03:03 PM |
| 2 | Most men allow themselves to be used by women just to get sex and validation in return.At the end of the day, you need women to pair with men and have kids at a sufficiently high rate. Women depend on a functional society as well. Mating is not an entirely personal decision--society has a stake, too. Now, within such parameters, there is room for women to be more sexually selective than men, and a lot more sexually excluded men than women. But it can only go so far. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 12:52 PM |
| 0 | Most men allow themselves to be used by women just to get sex and validation in return.If Esther Vilar had a point, it seems likely it was only relevant for a certain demographic at a certain time. Maybe UMC and higher post-WW2 there was a point where domestic technology and small families (due to low infant mortality) probably made being a SAHM for a woman's whole life easier than working. But even then, a lot of women wanted to work over being a SAHM. So unclear what was going on. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 12:11 PM |
| 3 | How many men who feel like women reject “nice guys” would proudly treat their girlfriends and wives like princesses and simp for them?It's harder than that because the kind of long term affection you are talking about rarely happens naturally. It is built. BUT as you say, not every man will have the potential to build that with you. So you have to find a guy who wants to build that, and who can with you (and you with him). But this is hard to test at the beginning because that kind of love takes time to create. So you somehow have to test for the potential. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 10:32 AM |
| 10 | How many men who feel like women reject “nice guys” would proudly treat their girlfriends and wives like princesses and simp for them?Men are not angels, but they respond to incentives, like women. Probably most men would treat their woman like a queen if they could do it. But this tends to happen in the beginning of a relationship. During that infatuation phase, men don't simp for women, they simp for themselves. It feels great simping for a woman you are infatuated with. But I think women know this. They may even feel that they are always on a clock. When will the youthful infatuation end? When will the youthful glow of my l… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 04:39 AM |
| 1 | The men actively raving about the need for subservient women are, ironically, the most prone to being used by womenI would say that deep down, most guys just want an escape from the dominance contest of life when they get to their home. They don't want a wife who is competing with them for power, particularly if the man is in a double bind: If he loses a power contest at home, he also loses her attraction. Men especially hate it if the woman somehow views the power balance in the relationship as representative of the male/female power balance in general, and is thus not just fighting for her own influence, b… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/24 04:19 AM |
| 1 | The entire “if a girl is really into you, you’ll know and there is nothing that can dissuade her” narrative really needs to die already. This is completely false, and is misleading generations of men.I mean it is technically behavior that is associated with males low in the male dominance hierarchy, and in many species. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/04/24 06:24 PM |
| 5 | The entire “if a girl is really into you, you’ll know and there is nothing that can dissuade her” narrative really needs to die already. This is completely false, and is misleading generations of men.Sometimes men and women miscommunicate and opportunities are missed. Happens. But being all in one's head about whether a girl likes you is innately low-value behavior. People of lower status become desperate for any sexual or other relevant opportunities and will take what seem like inordinate risks to pursue even the hint of one. This is logical in a way as such people rarely get such opportunities. But if you want to level up in aspects of life, sometimes you need to manually override these n… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/04/24 03:41 PM |
| 2 | Study shows men view their ex partners much more fondly than women do, matches up with my experience. What are your thoughts?Agree. Too many male posters act like men are so much more selfless by nature than women. But what really happens is that during the infatuation stage, especially with a young, attractive and neotenous woman, the chemical soup in the male brain makes doing shit for her feel great. It's a huge high. So in our own way, men are also following our male tingles and feelings during the start of a relationship. It is just that what creates those tingles is more consistent and straightforward. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/04/24 04:33 PM |
| – | Where does the belief that women only show interest in/ have sex with men in the top 20%, but then later settle for the bottom 80% come from?It is based in the fact that females are almost by definition more sexually selective, and that Pareto-like distributions can show up in many places. They are quite natural. Women are hypergamous and they have an attraction to male rank that is not really reciprocated. Pareto-like distributions started coming up in some Online Dating data with respect to female preferences and many in the manosphere took this too far. Ultimately, 80/20 cannot technically be right because it is a purely quantitat… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/04/24 04:18 PM |
| 3 | Study shows men view their ex partners much more fondly than women do, matches up with my experience. What are your thoughts?Not saying it is true, but it should be more considered as a possibility. Occam's Razor would suggest that maybe the simple reason that men remember their female exes better than the other way around is that women treat their partners better and/or provide more value with the relationship than the other way around, on average. This would dovetail with an Occam's Razor explanation of why women initiate divorce more: again, because men are doing more of the bad shit. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/04/24 03:50 PM |
| 5 | Who/what is maintaining the higher beauty standards for women?Well, like women, men have standards and preferences. No standards on a global level, but they do exist on an individual level. Otherwise, you pretty much nailed it. In such a feedback loop, it is unclear how much responsibility the target gender has for the degree of intersexual competition of the other. In a holistic way, as citizens and not a member of a gender, we all bear some for the interesexual competition levels of both genders. While women are re-weighting their mate choice criteria wi… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/04/24 03:15 PM |
| 14 | What is a traditional women in your view and is it feasible in modern times?Traditional just means believing in gender roles and filling them to the extent possible. Women always did productive labor. There was a weird blip in the West where women did less productive labor than before, though the way we set up the nuclear family, the childcare labor they were doing was extra hard for the number of kids. But it soon became geopolitically uncompetitive not to exploit one's female human capital. A couple that loves and respects one another should be putting in equal effort… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/04/24 09:09 AM |
| 0 | OK, so older men are gross and younger women only want their money... why is it assumed that women their age are different, considering how out of the game many of these men were when they didn't have money?People's ability to find others scales (imperfectly) to their own self-perceived attractiveness levels. This is often left out of the 'change your standards' discussion. There is some plasticity here. One's predisposition to try to find someone attractive or try to find them unattractive has a huge effect, though there are limits. Men do age better than women sexually, though the Wall has been weaponized and overdone. However, there is cultural pressure . influence for young women to not find ol… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/04/24 03:26 AM |
| 1 | Why do progressives/feminists rarely object to grooming standards for men?I dunno. Depends on the girl's hair coloring. Long, dark black leg hairs on a girls shins, like you would see on a guy, are instant boner killer for me. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 03:12 PM |
| 2 | Why do progressives/feminists rarely object to grooming standards for men?I have no issues with pubic hair or armpit hair. I have lived in East Asia and seen it all. But for some reason leg hair is a total turnoff. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 02:54 PM |
| 2 | It's a good idea for men to get practice girlfriendsDepends. Any benefits are more than outweighed by the self-harm of being a purposeful manipulative asshole. So if you can get a practice GF without being evil, or hurting her, great. If not, try something else. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 01:32 PM |
| 1 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.I don't believe in using force for these things. At the same time, there are some aggregate female choices that might torpedo the functioning of society. Best to do everything possible to avoid that happening in a voluntary way since I have no idea what happens if those limits are truly tested. I also don't believe that in an egalitarian society we can have men needing to work harder at life than women in order to mate or reproduce. Not saying men do work harder, I'm just putting some general pa… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 01:19 PM |
| 2 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.When they talk about wanting relationships in the abstract, they aren't necessarily thinking about the kinds of men they can realistically land. You get a revealed preference dynamic when certain women do have to choose between what they can get or sitting things out. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 11:08 AM |
| 1 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.Well, whether women's standards are realistic, and what 'realistic' even means, is an open question IMO. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 11:07 AM |
| 4 | Why do progressives/feminists rarely object to grooming standards for men?Yeah, well I don't really like dealing with the more extreme views and view holders. Most women who object to any grooming standards for female body hair are probably lesbian separatists who don't care about men at all, or any kind of gender fairness/balance in these respects because they feel men are so innately predatory to women there can be no balance. They just want women to ignore men and don't really care what women do. Or they are hippies who have to grooming standards for either gender. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 10:20 AM |
| 20 | Why do progressives/feminists rarely object to grooming standards for men?I guess the counter argument would be that women are way, way ahead of men when it comes to grooming. The argument against male grooming standards for women isn't necessarily that there be NONE; it is more about what they are and how comprehensive and troublesome they are. So I guess the the overall counter to what the OP is saying is that women just want men to start doing the basics, whereas women are way beyond that and could dial some of it back and we'd still not have gender equality here. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 09:53 AM |
| 1 | Would men do the same in the current dating market?Men would likely do the same. Maybe worse. However, more men would also probably notice and be concerned about data pointing at the possibility of big picture imbalances. More men would be worried about the birthrate. We are all, to some degree or another, prisoners of our culture and the environment when it comes to our individual lives. I don't really blame people, including women, for their individual decisions. However, when a man or woman puts on their 'citizen' hats, I do hold them respons… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 09:50 AM |
| 5 | I am tired of the rhetoric that "the friendzone" "isn't real" and the lack of acknowledgment that both sexes can be toxic in that scenarioIt's unclear how often or much being friends first reduces your shot at a girl you are otherwise attractive enough for. In many cases, it may eventually increase your chances. MANY relationships began as friends first, but in a lot of them, he was already sufficiently attractive to in theory be on the menu. But timing. Other relationships. Options she considered better. All could get in the way. The guy that was a solid 'no' that then becomes a real 'yes' seems somewhat rare. When it does happen… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 08:25 AM |
| 13 | I am tired of the rhetoric that "the friendzone" "isn't real" and the lack of acknowledgment that both sexes can be toxic in that scenarioDepends how you define the FriendZone. If you mean a friend who has romantic feelings that are unreciprocated? Happens all the time. But the original idea was that somehow being friends was preventing a guy from being the boyfriend, and without the friendship, he would have been. This also happens, but is actually quite rare. Most of the time, the one in the zone just was not sufficiently sexually attractive to their 'friend', and nothing about being a friend changes that either way. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 08:19 AM |
| 2 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.I don't necessarily buy that it being more controllable makes it more or less shallow. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 04:58 AM |
| 1 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.At some point, if one wants to level up, one has to start ignoring the worst forms of arguments and focusing on the strongest forms. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 04:57 AM |
| 1 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.I really hope you are right and that women are as committed to finding a hetero partner as men are. Could be true, but I'm not sure at all. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 04:56 AM |
| 2 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.It was meant to be a BIT hyperbolic, but still, sure. The point stands. But why is your concern about body fat percentage or facial beauty less shallow than her concern about height? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 01:05 AM |
| 2 | Does being an emotional tampon lead to the friendzone? Or only in certain cases?There are situations where you having been friends or going the friendly route vs. boyfriend route at the beginning is what cost you, and if you hadn't, you would have had a good chance at romance. But these are rare situations IMO. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 01:03 AM |
| 4 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.It takes a lot more than a solid career to land women 10 years younger than you if you are bald and overweight. For sure lol | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 12:59 AM |
| – | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.She's saying men and women do not value the same things, even when it comes to 'looksmatch'. So him being 5'5" is like her being a burn victim. Is it shallow that men won't want to date a fit, well-dressed, successful woman just because she has burns overall of her face? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 12:57 AM |
| 14 | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.It would be better if everyone understood their realistic chances. That being said, I'm not convinced that women are necessarily as committed as men are to having a heterosexual partner at all. I think many people, especially men, believe that if you disabuse a deluded woman of her delusions as to what kind of man she can actually land, magically her standards will reset and she will choose one of the men she can actually land and be happy with him. Instead, many such women would likely just opt… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 12:53 AM |
| – | Men’s standards are just as problematic as women’s.There's a difference between hard standards and softer preferences. Men seem more likely than women to take their best available option. Women seem more willing to just sit things out if none of their current options meet their standards. That said, I do think porn, digital imagery and modern society in general have inflated men's preferences as well as women's. The impact is just subtler with men. A man will take his looksmatch or below, is that is what is available. However, he may not be as v… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/04/24 12:49 AM |
| 2 | Feminists try to shame men out of their advantages in the dating marketThe Wall bullshit has been overdone and weaponized. But being ignorant of gender differences in ageing is dangerous. There are reasons why older woman/younger man does not work as well as the opposite. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/03/24 02:47 PM |
| 1 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itI think I'm honestly trying to see all the perspectives and don't really have a fixed opinion on this. Though what you describe might not be men getting worse but rather the Internet revealing to women how bad men always were. I dunno. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:56 PM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyOf course. The 10,000 year explosion isn't really evo psych but father just evolutionary genetics. But if right, it may have some impact on evo pysch as it posits our stone aged ancestors as being much more biologically different than the consensus, which means evo psych would have to be much more careful in how it uses info. from prehistory to infer modern evolved instincts. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:46 PM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyCool. Will look it up. I'm very familiar with the area, though I don't do hardcore genetics or anything. I'm not that much of science guy. But the hypothesis of the book I just read is very controversial. So it was interesting. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:33 PM |
| 1 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itFair enough. To me these are open questions, including the possibility that even if things haven't change THAT much yet, they are on track to over time. It's really hard to know how selective women will be as their absolute need for men declines. Of course, the other factor is whether men get worse in some absolute way such that what looks like increased female selectivity is actually women staying the same and men offering an increasingly unattractive deal. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:15 PM |
| 1 | Why should women take advice from people who loathe them?I don't even bother defining pills anymore. Not tightly. I mean there is no TRP Bible or Orthodoxy, and major thinkers in the sphere often disagree. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 06:43 PM |
| 1 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itFair enough. I think we probably have pretty different beliefs about how baseline, genetically-based female libido compares to male. It's unclear to me to what extent male concerns about female sexuality are, if not justified, based on something real. The big open question in gender relations is how sexually selective economically free women will turn out to be. What kind of 'incel' rate will we be looking at? And there are qualitative concerns as well as quantitative ones. How far would women l… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 06:29 PM |
| 1 | Why should women take advice from people who loathe them?Absolutely true lol | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 06:22 PM |
| 1 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itInteresting. Unclear to me how much the religion that was predominant in the past, if any, matters. Obviously, if we are talking about things within some very extreme sect or whatever, that might be different. I dunno any places where women are or want to be the sexual initiators. And this may run deeper than being shamed for overt sexuality. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 05:41 PM |
| 2 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itDamn. Not usually into femdomme, but was maybe looking forward to a slap. Just to try. As for hot girls and nerds, yeah. Kinda. Unclear how much is about them being low status and how much it is about them wanting more 'alpha' behavior (though I hate this term genertally). | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 05:03 PM |
| 2 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itSure. There is a lot of variance here as to percentages. My friend went to HS on the Jersey Shore at the peak of teenage sex and drugs. What he describes is significantly different than what was true in my time and place. It's natural for there to be a lot more sexually excluded men than women. So what we are talking about is how high that percentage is mainly, as well as some more qualitative aspects. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 05:00 PM |
| 1 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itlol I think maybe you just like to hit men who won't hit you back. I was that kind of guy, but I seem to have become less tame in my old age. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 04:34 PM |
| 1 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itIt's not really about the rom coms. Again, it's more a matter of degrees here or there. And yeah, in a lot of media the nerdy guy in the friendzone didnt get the girl he was after. But he did OK in the end. And maybe they still do. Hard to say. There are definitely some guys who have been deranged by basically being overly exposed to the life of Chad via digital media, and so thinking certain things are natural rites of passage that are a vital experience in every man's life. But the truth is th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 04:33 PM |
| 2 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with ithaha yeah,. We are compatible about the phone, incompatible in every other way. Should work great! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 04:20 PM |
| 1 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itLOL You one of THOSE women, eh? Text me every hour? I hate texting and I hate phones lol I like meeting people in person, and then when they are gone, they are gone until i see them again. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 04:12 PM |
| 2 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itIt was clearly about controlling social behavior. They were trying to control men, too. Though of course not in the same ways. And yeah, demonizing female sexuality has also been tried, often by the same people. As for the whole 'I was lied to!' argument, of course the extreme versions are bullshit. But I grew up in the 80s and 90s. There were definitely mixed narratives about female sexuality. As in most things, it wasn't about absolutes but degrees along a continuum. How important was looks? H… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 04:05 PM |
| 2 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with ithaha NP. We sorta kinda agree on something maybe. Yay! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 04:01 PM |
| 2 | Madonna/wh*re complex is why so many marriages end up being sexless.Fair enough. Both are issues. Not really sure on accepted definition of deadbedroom tbh. It's possible that we have unrealistic sexual expectations of women in monogamous relationships, especially as they age. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 03:59 PM |
| 3 | Madonna/wh*re complex is why so many marriages end up being sexless.Yeah, but the real deadbedrooms aren't just about a libido mismatch. They are often about sex basically being over. I agree that many men cause the deadbedrooms, too. But not sure a reddit sub is representative of the overall gender ratios on this. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 03:22 PM |
| 1 | Why do so many women insist that the bar is so low?TRP thinkers were right about a fair amount of things on the individual level. But this doesn't necessarily scale. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 03:10 PM |
| 5 | Madonna/wh*re complex is why so many marriages end up being sexless.Maybe. But most deadbedrooms don't start that way. If they did, then both partners would be fine with deadbedroom and no issue. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 03:09 PM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyI guess we are miscommunicating. No desire to relitigate the past. I'll start again. Evo psych uses evidence from the past and the present to talk about behavior in the past and the present. Evo psych does not think that genetically-based instincts solely determine behavior. Not now. Not in the past. Not ever. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 02:01 PM |
| 4 | Why should women take advice from people who loathe them?No, I was thinking about the best marriage age primarily in terms of fertility. Having kids before the fertility window closes. Being young and energetic parents. Having relatively young grandparents and the advantages of that. There are other considerations, such as gender dynamics. If women are unmarried for too long after they are sexually mature, then promiscuity tends to set in. Or they are more likely to have slept with guys hotter than their eventual husband. Or you will get too long a pe… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 01:33 PM |
| 2 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyI think you are conflating two things. You asked me if evo psych is concerned at all with the behavior of people still alive, and I said that is the point of evo psych. Buss is just saying that our evolved instincts--even if we could perfectly isolate and articulate them--by no means determine behavior on their own, now OR at any point in the past. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 01:13 PM |
| 3 | Why should women take advice from people who loathe them?I'm being a bit casual with 'we' lol But here I am talking very generally about humanity. I take it as axiomatic that the species must continue above almost anything else. If anyone wants to argue that there are good but possibly temporary reasons for X polity to run below replacement TFR for awhile, that is a different story. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 12:50 PM |
| 0 | Why should women take advice from people who loathe them?We only need 2.1 kids. And with low mortality rates and various factors suppressing Malthusian constraints, if we had even 3.0 for too long, we really do get an overpopulation problem. We need to hit a narrow window. Thus, I'm not sure we need or want marriage and kids at 20. But 30 is still too old. Maybe ~24-25 is good now. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 12:38 PM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologySure. I don't follow the relevance of this citation. Might be the weed. I smoke too much. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 12:23 PM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyI'm too lazy to go Googling. But pretty much the point of David Buss' work is to explain people TODAY with reference to instincts that evolved over time. One of his post-Docs, William Costello, who does a lot of podcasts, is even an expert on Incels. That is pretty modern. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 12:19 PM |
| 12 | Why should women take advice from people who loathe them?Sure. If it's one person, it is very contextual. And even in a culture badly set up for it, you can still try to counter those problems and reap the innate rewards if you go about it the right way. That said, it does seem clear that right now marrying really young for most people is a bad idea. AT least statistically. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 12:13 PM |
| 10 | Why should women take advice from people who loathe them?You really shouldn't pack a discussion OP with some many arguable points presented as fact. It is not clear that non of this advice actually benefits women, nor is it clear that TRP hates women. As to the point at hand, one mistake that many 'tradcons' or 'TRPers' make is not understanding that what might be good for a person in more ideal circumstances is not always good for them in actual conditions. For example, I do think we want people to marry and have children earlier. And if set up right… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 11:51 AM |
| 0 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyI disagree in that evolutionary psych is all about our current psychology. It is just using an evolutionary lens explain and test what aspects of that psychology they explain. The hypothesis I am considering is not a sea change if true. It just suggests that more care needs to be taken when applying evidence from the far past to the modern day, or from one population to another. The hypothesis suggests modern populations are more different from one another, and from ancestors, than may be the ca… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 11:40 AM |
| 1 | Would you be able to continue your LTR if She Tells you were the second choice and She dated you Just because you asked First?I would laugh. Life is like that. Just because you were her second choice doesn't mean you weren't her best choice. Now, if she is saying this to hurt you then that is a different issue. But if it just came up, it's funny. In marriages and really LTRs I know, eventually most get to a place where they do share secrets about what they were thinking during the early days. And sometimes they are secrets like this. No big deal. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 11:13 AM |
| 2 | What do you think is contributing to the male loneliness epidemic?Right. Or at least too many influential women believe in this false binary of either genderlessness or female oppression. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 10:20 AM |
| 0 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyI have read evo psych. And the OP already seems too long. Relax. We just talking here. Trying to start a conversation. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 09:52 AM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyIt's all on a continuum. The point would be that if this book's thesis is correct, then the degree of difference between current populations, as well as between humans in 2024 and all humans in 50,000 BC, is much greater than is conventionally assumed. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 09:46 AM |
| 1 | What do you think is contributing to the male loneliness epidemic?Men are getting whacked by some things. But I would argue that trying to be men is making modern women miserable as well. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 09:44 AM |
| 1 | If men go away women would not look backSure. I've seen it. It has been looked at here on PPD a million times. At the end of the day, it is social science so you have to interpret it with more than a grain of salt. In other studies, women don't seem to have problems objectively and properly rank ordering male physical attractiveness given the right conditions. So I tend to believe that this data about 80% of men being below average is somehow eliciting something else from women, like they are somehow answering 'Do you find him attract… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 09:26 AM |
| 1 | What do you think is contributing to the male loneliness epidemic?I think there is some connection between wombs being innately valuable and sperm being cheap and women being able to find meaning more easily. But it may not be a direct connection in a woman's brain so much as this fact caused men and women to evolve differently. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 09:23 AM |
| 1 | If men go away women would not look backWell the underlying tone of the Op and other posts here suggests to me an overestimation of how many men are simply undesirable by women. I think that number has naturally grown as women became increasingly free of NEED for a man. But I'm not sure it has grown that much. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 09:14 AM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyIf the book's theory is accurate, it does make me question the relevance of say studying stone age behavior or that of amazon tribes if you are trying to parse nature from nurture with respect to Caucasian sexuality in North America in 2024. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 09:11 AM |
| 2 | What do you think is contributing to the male loneliness epidemic?I think you are on the right track. We have general isolation and atomization going on. But it seems clear from the literature that in these areas, men are the more fragile gender. Women seem to find meaning and purpose more easily and organically than men. I would not say it is only about their ability to have babies. Women find meaning in people and relationships more robustly than men. This is to say that while there are better and worse setups for women in this respect, they tend to make do … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 09:05 AM |
| 3 | If men go away women would not look backYou are prematurely overestimating how sexually selective women are. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 08:53 AM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyMy mistake. I meant behaviorially modern humans, which is basically the Great Leap theory. Anatomically Modern Humans correspond to the 300k figure you are giving. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 08:50 AM |
| 2 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyYou definitely need to filter with a lot of skepticism. I definitely don't view it as science. But at the same time, the products of psychology are worth considering along with many other sources. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 08:44 AM |
| 5 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itI actually think Christian males (with support from relevant females) promulgated the last and currently relevant episode of 'women are more pure, and they are most attracted to goodness'. They presumably had their reasons. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 08:38 AM |
| 1 | A lot of women and men are unaware of their entitlement for the opposite sexYeah, the coolidge effect has been studied in more depth. Lots of interesting articles on it, including how women especially need sexual novelty after a certain time period. Women NEED it more; men WANT more of it. As to how we can adapt, that is an open question. Is there a way to rejuvenate lifelong monogamy? Is there a way to re-engineer our mating and family raising paradigm so that it can be more serially monogamous, and possibly for greater female sexual selectivity, while still taking car… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:39 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThat's a different question. I just said that ideally they should not HATE women. Though even in this case, it sort of depends on how the women act. There are different ways for women to treat the sexually excluded men while still following their innate female instincts. So yeah, if women are leaning into rather than away from treating these men like shit, beyond just not mating with them, then maybe the men become more justified in hating the women. Very contextual, though in this case the men … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:34 AM |
| 1 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyYou are right. I could have worded that better. What I'm saying is that if the hypothesis of this book is true, the degree of certainty of our evo psych 'best guesses' goes down a lot. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:32 AM |
| 2 | Sexual promiscuity alone doesn’t matter.First of all, both genders have evolved asymmetric instincts about the sexual purity of the genders. Both genders view excessive female promiscuity as worse and get an 'ick' about it. Now, the degree of this instinctive aversion that transcends culture is often overstated by many men. But it is there. Beyond that, humans are always operating on imperfect information and looking for various heuristics to help them out. So it is natural that people look at both the raw body count AND the current p… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:30 AM |
| 1 | A lot of women and men are unaware of their entitlement for the opposite sexI think most fair people understand that various factors, especially women's higher reproductive costs, make it 'natural' for women to date upwards in SMV rank or mate value percentile. The question becomes 'how much higher'? And you are right to say that many have an unexamined assumption that women should mate with someone in a monogamous dynamic. Thus, it is wrong for women to have overly high standards that they have no chance of finding a partner who meets. It is true that many of these wom… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:20 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWhy? When one brings in the 'justified' frame it involves morality and ethical systems. It is normative. You aren't in control of initial feelings that circumstances bring about. You are in control of whether you lean in or away from them. Incels should try to undo hatred of women, yes. Leaning into it is wrong. And I will say the same sorts of things about various common female attitudes. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:12 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWhat I think is right, and how to make it happen, are two different things. I think they should not hate women because of my full belief structure. Hating women isn't justified since women are just following their programming the way men are following men's. But just because they shouldn't hate women doesn't mean they won't. I also believe that there are limits to how many sexually excluded men a society can tolerate while functioning. The better case scenario is that the right culture and envir… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 07:00 AM |
| 2 | The primitive narrative was women searching for love and men looking for sex , and men are to blame for accepting the reputation that comes with itThere are various places and periods where notions that female nature and sexuality were more 'moral' became popular. Men had to have been involved in that. We still see the remnants of that belief today. This is what makes 'nice guys' who can't get a girl so upset. They were implicitly told that if you do what you are supposed to, you end up with a woman and a family and so on. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 06:55 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSure. If we are talking descriptively rather than normatively, then those men SHOULD avoid hate for women, but realistically, many will not. It is also true that human culture and environment play a role. The literature strongly suggests that female sexuality is much more influenced by nurture than male sexuality, which is simpler and more robust. Thus, IN THEORY, the degree of true female sexual selectivity can be adjusted, within limits. However, that doesn't mean we actually know how to manip… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 06:45 AM |
| 2 | A problem with evolutionary psychologyIt's more that muddies things considerably because it is quite possible that one population's sexual instincts did evolve considerably far from stone age baseline, while another's did not. But no, it doesn't negate the possibility that some things were universal then and still are. And good evo psych doesnt just make up plausible evolutionary theories. It also has to investigate what holds true now, even with all of modern culture complicating things. But all of this does ask us to be more quali… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 06:36 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThey also have trouble understanding what the truism that females are more sexually selective means, by definition. It means that when women are free to choose, a lot more men SHOULD and WILL be exluced from the SMP than women. It means that women will mate upwards in SMV rank (not necessarily raw SMV or 'holistic human value'). Finally, even when they understand this, they cannot possibly believe that THEY might be one of the men who are naturally supposed to be excluded from mating. That is OT… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 06:17 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadDad's reacted to conditions. There were times and places where Dads very much wanted significantly older men for their daughters. Of course, Dad's interests and daughter's are not always perfectly aligned. Sometimes they just differ, and sometimes each has different beliefs as to what is in her interest. An interesting area of study in evo psych has to do with kin influence on mating. The problem with a lot of the simple sexual selection theories you hear bandied around on PPD is that humans are… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 06:13 AM |
| 2 | How come so many guys do not want to go to clubs to get women, even though that is the easiest option?It could be that the guys who can do well at a club also do well at OLD. And OLD is easier for them. Only a small set of men who do well at a club, and better there than OLD. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 05:43 AM |
| 62 | Madonna/wh*re complex is why so many marriages end up being sexless.I think OP is overestimating how common true madonna/whore is. And I think women are the proximate cause of most sexless marriages. Note I said 'proximate' cause because this isn't to say that the man's behavior didn't have something to do with her stopping sex. And I said 'most' because I know that it is not uncommon for the man to be the one who stops wanting sex with her. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 05:34 AM |
| -2 | Redpilled men and virgin women will be incompatible with each otherThere are strong evolutionary reasons why sexual purity is valued more in women, and why there are asymmetric attitudes towards male and female promiscuity. However, these basic instincts then meet culture and environment to form actual attitudes and behavior. Being more concerned about female sexual purity than male doesn't have to translate into wanting virgins. There are cultures where men didn't want virgins--they wanted some other guy to field test her reproductive system first. Prove she w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 04:09 AM |
| -1 | Why do so many women insist that the bar is so low?TRPers are locked into this inaccurate logic that women only judge men relative to one another. So to them the height of the bar is how sexually selective women are on a relative basis: what percentile rank in mate value does a guy need to be to get say a 50th percentile SMV rank woman, as a base metric. But women evaluate men in many ways, not just relative to each other. So when women say the bar is low, they are talking in absolute terms. They feel today's men have declined from men in the pa… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 03:44 AM |
| 3 | For men, being able to shrug at rejection is paramount in datingI think you do damage to your soul if you get to a place where you are immune to the pain of rejection. Now, Tinder rejection is not the same as in person, of course. I dunno what the solution is. Maybe men just need to be better. Put more effort into being attractive to women, including working smart so they are focusing their effort on things women really do need and find attractive. Then try to meet women more organically. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 03:06 AM |
| 1 | Feminists try to shame men out of their advantages in the dating marketThese things are complex. It isn't as if every 22 year old woman who married a 37 year old man found him 'gross and old', but needed the money. There is a natural aversion to too much male age baked into young women's DNA, but it isn't that strong. And culture plays a role. The Western culture of 'old men are gross predators' has not completely permeated all world culture's. Age can also be a source of status and even sex appeal. Status and wealth can change how a woman sees a man. So the idea t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 02:12 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat Megathreadhaha Yes. But men are different. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 02:04 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYeah, the younger you are, the more league is looks and some personality. There are not that many sources of status, and wealth is not in play yet very much. Depending on culture, male sports can change the game, though. Being a sports star can make you attractive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/03/24 02:04 AM |
| 5 | Feminists try to shame men out of their advantages in the dating marketIt is true that feminism and women have pushed a 'old guys are gross' agenda. However, to some extent they were going with the grain here. A lot of large age gap relationships were at least founded on a woman's economic need--a need that is slowly disappearing. This doesn't mean there was no attraction or love. But it does raise the question of whether a much older man was really the best choice for the woman if economic need had not been in the picture. Most large age gap relationships are not … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 11:08 PM |
| 2 | Most of the time when a woman cock blocks her friend at the bar, it is out of jealousy not to “save her” as most women will try to claimMy experience is that the cock blocking happens for a reason. Assuming that the girl you are hitting on does like you, then the main reason friends cock block is that they came with the girl, she is drunk, and they view getting her home as their responsibility. She is on their watch. Their responsibility. She came with them; she's going home with them. Get her contact info. and accept that THIS evening ends at the club. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 10:38 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSure. Though I don't think looks entirely defines your league. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 01:04 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWhy can't average women get with slightly above average men, like they usually have? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 12:08 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadTo some extent. But the top women tend to be OK with enough looks and then chase more status, wealth, charisma> So maybe a woman needs to be above average to get a looks Chad, but not top 1%, either. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 12:08 PM |
| 1 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?The world of love is full of mystery. Nobody has it all mapped out. Some people may indeed have 'the ONE' and meet that person and live happily ever after. I'm not sure that this really scales, though.Maybe not that many people have a ONE, or it is too hard to find everyone their ONE, or whatever. But I think if people only married and had kids with 'the ONE' then we'd become extinct pretty fast. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 11:34 AM |
| 1 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?Serial monogamy is where we are going. While humans seem to have accreted layers of sexual instincts that encompass polygamy, monogamy and serial monogamy, our strongest impulses by far drive us to serial monogamy. It took a lot of work and sacrifice and constraint to enforce widespread monogamy, and our culture is not in behavior enforcement game so much anymore. All I am saying is that the literature on divorce is dismal and overwhelming, and calls into question a lot of seemingly sensible int… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 11:25 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat Megathreadhaha I definitely wouldnt be surfing into the porn channels there. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 11:08 AM |
| 1 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?People are different. Kids have different sensitivity levels. I was very sensitive, and I would have been better if my parents had divorced earlier rather than when I was 18, even though the level of overt dysfunction was below that which most research suggests is the level at which divorce is better for the kids. And in contrast, my fraternal twin brother was better off because they stayed together. But on the whole, the research is nearly unanimous that staying together for the kids is general… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 11:05 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadGotcha. I mean I still wouldn't wanna have sex on that bed with him looking at me like that though... | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 11:01 AM |
| 3 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI don't see what is so creepy. Just some middle-aged man from the 18th or 19th Century. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 10:41 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThe Wall is still what it is and was. But yeah, if women won't mate with a lot older, then that means there is not a lot of intergenerational female sexual competition. So the impact of the Wall on a woman is greatly mitigated. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 10:37 AM |
| 3 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadLooks hypergamy is interesting to posit | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 10:35 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI can't really comment on attractive women being seen as less capable. But I do know that as a man, and one who has talked to other men, that a beautiful woman in full modern office getup and makeup is distracting. Even when you know she is smart and are trying to engage intellectually and turn off your sexual appreciation, it can be hard..err..difficult. I believe that really attractive women are actually better off toning things down more than other women in terms of work attire and makeup. Go… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 10:19 AM |
| 2 | Are people who romanticize the extended family dynamic actually prepared for what it means?The complicating factor here is that a culture is a holistic, interconnected thing. When the extended family trumped the nuclear, many other conditions were different. And as a result, people's psychologies were different. One can argue that perhaps changes in general conditions led to the rise of the nuclear family in the first place. So I guess the point is that imagining life right now, as it is, but with strong extended families can only take you so far. A lot of other things would likely ha… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 09:53 AM |
| 3 | Question for older guys 35+. What is your experience with the wall?Fair enough. Nothing is universally applicable to all people. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 08:50 AM |
| 5 | Question for older guys 35+. What is your experience with the wall?I don't want the sugar thing. That is just prostitution. Look, if you are an older guy who can legitimately pull younger women and have them truly desire you, then it can be tempting to indulge in that for a bit. And nothing wrong with it. But yeah, I like the mental connection more than the physical. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 07:36 AM |
| 8 | Question for older guys 35+. What is your experience with the wall?I think dating women my own age is great. Sure, there is still that unique pull of a woman at peak beauty and neoteny, but it is also kind of an abstraction. It's a nice fantasy, but often the reality feels awkward. I've tried it. Women your own age are plenty attractive and the meeting of minds is very sexy and produces a different, but still strong attraction as compared to being with a 25 year old who isn't actually that interesting. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 07:30 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt was at best the least bad option. I'm curious how much of harem politics is actual jealousy over the man, and how much--especially over time--more becomes a status and dominance game among the women, with the man just being the primary piece in the game. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 07:20 AM |
| 4 | Question for older guys 35+. What is your experience with the wall?The Wall ultimately refers to a biological reality. Men are attracted to both beauty and neoteny (youthful lookingness) in women. As women lose it, male attraction both declines and changes in character. A 40 year old man is attracted to a hot 40-year -old woman. But he doesn't have the same kind of overall romantic, wanna die for you, wanna write songs about you, infatuation that beauty PLUS youthfulness incites in a man. But what the Wall means to dating is very contextual. If you are British … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 07:16 AM |
| 1 | 30 yr old, single women in mediocre jobs, shouldn't expect more than average.Well, specific criteria have changed. But you are asking if she still is a picky in terms of percentile man she will accept? Maybe. Maybe not. And how much would be her and how much social influence is hard to say. That said, it's an assumption that women should be attracted to men they can land, i.e. to men of roughly the same SMV rank. Maybe widespread monogamy is unnatural for women, and they are too selective for that. Thus, especially as you get to the lower tiers of women in mate value, ma… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 03:39 AM |
| 1 | What exactly do women mourn after a heartbreak?This is another 'why can't I be loved unconditionally?' post in disguise. You cannot really separate out the qualities in a lover the way the OP wants. Looked at from a certain angle, pretty much anything we do is self-interested. Do you miss him apart from what he provided? How about, 'Do you miss her, but imagine she was a 500 lbs. land whale who was burned in a house fire?' We do build up something akin to true, non-self interested love over time. It builds in the joints and the spaces around… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 03:11 AM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?I'd high five you, but the arthritis is acting up. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 02:55 AM |
| 2 | 30 yr old, single women in mediocre jobs, shouldn't expect more than average.It's all good that we are clearing away blue pill bullshit surrounding women. They are not angels, just human being like the rest of us. But why does doing this seem to also involve forgetting what men are like? Does being 30 and a single Mom hurt you in the dating market, sure. But it's a secondary dynamic to how hot she is. The Wall is real. It is based in biology. But what it means to actual dating is very much dependent on context. In 2024, women aren't marrying guys 15 years older very much… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 02:50 AM |
| 6 | LOOKS WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREADThere is an objective aspect to beauty. There is also a subjective aspect. But ultimately beauty is a great mystery that seems at least partially primal to a subjective-objective split. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 02:39 AM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?You are a ray of sunshine. Never change, Sharp. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/24 02:30 AM |
| 2 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?I didn't mean any one person acting as if they have no choice about kids. Clearly they do. I meant that neither men nor women should act as if 'everyone' not having kids is just some sustainable option. It isn't OK to go extinct. So we need to figure this shit out. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:06 PM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?haha I try to see the issues from all angles and perspectives. Still, at the end of the day, we need kids. Something has to give. The birthrate of modern nations absolutely will go up in time. It's just a question of how. I hope it is a good way and not a bad way. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:04 PM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?I would not say most anti-abortion people are intentionally trying to strip women of rights. They really don't see it that way. Now, the anti-contraception people, well, those guys might be different for sure. I also wouldn't necessarily characterize men in the past as being as 'free' as either men or women are today. Was a whole different thing. Anyways, until we get to the Star Trek Universe, resources do remain somewhat scarce. Most people won't get enough money to not work, etc. Having child… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:03 PM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?I'm a White Canadian male who happens to work in East Asia. And as I keep saying, in this conjecture about solutions, I would not let childless men off. I just wouldnt target them for being men, but for being childless. Childless women would pay the same. If there are more such men, so be it. But I would hope there would not be too many more of such men because the reproduction I'd want to incentivize would be by couples, and not single mothers. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 04:25 PM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?I'm not going to target men specifically for support. If men do turn out to be in much higher number among the childless, then more men might pay, though. So be it. And yes, the goal is to have replacement TFR, with new parents being mostly man-woman couples where she wants the baby and the man. And by wanting the baby, I mean truly wanting it and to raise it. Not just have it for the money, and then turn it over to the State or something. I'm not as pessimistic as you that men are so unattracti… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 03:58 PM |
| 2 | What does "insecure" even means?I dunno about that. Women are not shy about this at times, either. The real truth is that it isn't quite symmetrical. Penis - Vagina fit is a thing, and even the Tantrics in India knew this way back when. They wrote about big vagina pairing best with big penis, and small with small, and so forth. But ultimately I don't think big vagina became as much of a thing because (a) it is hidden, so it doesn't have the same impact on aesthetics and arousal that a large penis does. And (b) a vagina that is… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 03:52 PM |
| 3 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?I've wondered lately if somehow the modern world is not sending out false overpopulation signals that prospective parents are picking up on. We may not be technically overpopulated, but things like high housing prices, low pay for non skilled work, less jobs, stagnant labor salaries since the 70s, and so forth may be sending prospective parents the same low key overpopulation signals that have worked for 1000s of years in slowing the birthrate. It's just that the complexity of modern life and te… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 03:45 PM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?Again, the solution being aimed for isn't to get to replacement by having a bunch of women take sperm donations, give birth to a child, and then place it in some government supported system and move on with their lives. The goal is to get replacement TFR with WANTED children who will be raised by their mom and dad. I'm happy with taxing non parents. But why would that only be men? Women who aren't a parent should pay as much as a man who isn't. If this taxation to support parents requires such a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 03:41 PM |
| – | Why not liking sluts is such a big thing for women?You are trying to assemble too many things and reduce it all to one theory. But it is more complex than that. Women have historically policed female sluttiness at least as much as men. There are complex reasons for that. It's also clear that female and male promiscuity are not seen symmetrically by either gender on an instinctive basis. Again, decent reasons for this. However, this also doesn't justify anything as extreme as all women should stay virgin until marriage while the more sex partners… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 03:35 PM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?I'm talking about solutions so that we have a replacement birthrate and the children are wanted and nobody is feeling forced. But at the same time humans do not go extinct. Any transfer of resources to parents is effectively going to be taking resources away from non-parents. I have no issues with this so long as it is effective and sustainable. I see no reason such measures would target men who dont have children more than women who don't. There must be a win-win solution that doesn't involve h… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 03:28 PM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?You don't make discussing things fun. At all. I don't understand the need to be so hostile. I have no problems with taxing people (basically non-parents) to subsidize parents. And to the extent the mother needs extra subsidizing than the father, OK too. Of course it has to be a plan that would work and part of a holistic solution. We ideally want these kids raised in loving, two parent homes with good prospects. I personally believe that we don't know why TFR has crashed, and saying the change i… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 03:17 PM |
| 3 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?We don't need 4 kids per woman. It would actually explode the population. With modern technology lowering mortality and keeping malthusian constraints in check, we actually need to hit a narrow TFR window to prevent population explosion or implosion. I don't think women are evil here. Actually, when they know they will be expected to help raise them, go 50-50, and so on, men dont really want more kids than women. Surprise. WHat I object to is men or women acting like simply not having kids as a … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 03:01 PM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?I don't think you like most men haha | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 02:57 PM |
| 1 | Let's talk about tables and the evolutionary purpose of sexual attraction.This is evo psych 101 Nobody sane can disagree with the basics, though as others have pointed out, we are the only intelligent species, and this adds a layer of complication beyond the base impulses. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 02:28 PM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?What do you mean by support child production? Like more money provided to parents by means of general tax raise, which will be paid by non-parents? How much money we talking, per kid? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 02:24 PM |
| 6 | What does "insecure" even means?Not enough that it has become at all symmetrical with small dick. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 02:22 PM |
| 4 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?I'm not missing the point. There could be a million specific situations where divorce is better for the kids. But on the whole, the data is clear. The threshold of dysfunction in a marriage past which divorce produces better life outcomes for the kids than staying together is much higher than most people imagine. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 02:13 PM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?The math is undeniable. If we don't get 2.1 at some point, humanity goes extinct. You can kick the question down the road if you want to posit some temporary overpopulation issue. But when that is done, still need your 2.1 SO barring sci-fi bullshit, only women can give birth. We must have 2.1. Not for men. Not for women. But for us to not go extinct as a species. So what does it take? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 02:10 PM |
| 1 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?I dunno if there is that much of a difference between 0 and 1 and 1 and 2 in terms of how much time it will cost you and how much work competitiveness you lose. And if we are talking about women who actually take real time off work, want some flex hours, and such, then yeah, it can hurt at any job. But it hurts way more if you are competing for partner in Big Law than if you are a civil servant at the DMV. At any rate, though, we have a dilemma. Barring sci-fi solutions, the math is clear. We ne… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 12:50 PM |
| 2 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?It's also possible that this genderless society and the extreme liberal enlightenment logic behind it actually do not work with human nature. It could be that if for various reasons, the genders cannot interact properly or in balance in such a scenario. Ignoring the elite level, at the median, it could be that if you remove all 'market inefficiencies' in human interactions, and treat us all as non-gendered and interchangeable, that women just do better once there is the technology to support tha… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 12:43 PM |
| 2 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?Yes, the current atomization is a disaster. I can't really blame capitalism as it is downstream of the brutal materialistic geopolitical competition that forces you to live whichever way is most materially productive as opposed to best for human well being. This is the ultimate problem for which I have no good answer. But a lot of women would say, outside of material needs, what exactly do men really provide women in 2024, other than a lot of problems? What can't women do for one another? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 12:11 PM |
| 1 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?Sure. I hate the atomization of society, as well. But any interdependence has to be real and not artificially crafted. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 12:09 PM |
| 8 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?To be fair, we aren't talking about asking women to have 8 kids and be a full time SAHM their whole adult lives. We are talking 2.1 here. But you are right. Men don't seem to want to have that many kids, either, if you tell them that they will have to do 50-50 parenting. So it isn't just about the extra sacrifices women would make over men, even in a 50-50 situation. It's also about the lifestyle difference for the COUPLE between having 3 kids and not having any. And then, yeah, there is the iss… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 12:05 PM |
| 1 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?Well, virtually all the relevant literature suggests this is NOT true. The threshold of marital dysfunction has to be quite high for divorce to be better for the kids--when they are kids--than staying together. Even if the parents are 'miserable'. You need real abuse. Open and loud fighting all the time. That kinda thing. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:46 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI definitely don't have my mind made up here. I just wondered whether people thought men provided as much to women as women provide to men when we just talk about things within the constraints of their relationship. Not what anyone else produces on the side, or innovation or tech or whatever. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:44 AM |
| -1 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?The truth, to me, is that in our current setup, most divorce is in fact brutal to kids. BUT it is not clear that serial monogamy has to be that brutal if you set things up entirely differently. If that is possible. But if we have decided that enforced longterm monogamy in a modern world where we live to 80+ is just too painful for adults, and maybe particularly so for women, then maybe we need to see if we can change the underlying structure of families. The current structure does NOT work well … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:32 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI just meant that saying any kind of unique male material contribution was supposed to be prohibited by this thought experiment. Was just about whether men as 'people' were a net benefit to women, or not. I don't follow about how removing men in a world where they provide no unique material benefits over women provides no possible benefits to women. Many women would argue that the end of male rape is a huge benefit. Or some argue that men are, by nature, net takers in relationships with women wh… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:29 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSure. This was supposed to be more about the thought experiment than technical issues with AI. So better to take parameters at face value. Some women would suffer the loss of potentially great mates they were attracted to. But would their loss be outweighed by all the benefits? And would women's more fluid sexuality just start to go more and more lesbian en masse over time? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:20 AM |
| -1 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?I don't have a magic solution here. I'm just pointing out that a lot of people saying it is better for the kids to split up are totally wrong. At the level of dysfunction that couple is at, the old adage of staying together until the kids are in college is in fact accurate. However, you have to balance doing right by kids with doing right by adults, too. The kids will one day be adults. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:18 AM |
| 2 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?I don't think it is sustainable to artificially try to build need for a male. If we are past that, when we have to adapt. But I also do feel that the interaction between a woman's material need for a man and her attraction to him is more complex than people here admit. The past was not a matter of most women just trading sex for men they found sexually repulsive, but 'needed'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:09 AM |
| 5 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?This is a bit of a cope. The literature has a solid consensus that the threshold of dysfunction past which it is better for the kids if the parents split up is in fact much higher than we think. The more sophisticated argument is a lifecycle one. Yes, stuff that happens in childhood does have a disproportionate impact. That said, kids have to become adults, too. So what good is making their childhood as happy as possible only to force them into 50+ years of enforced monogamy in relationships tha… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 11:05 AM |
| 5 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?I dunno about strictly unaffordable, but in the current setting, it would be a massive redistribution of status and resources to mothers. And if maybe we aren't 'paying' mothers enough now, the asking price also seems too high. It is telling us something is deeply wrong IMO. Women aren't feeling enough desire to have kids, or that there are any real innate rewards to it that are different than 'fatherhood' rewards. So somehow having kids in general is too hard, even though we need less than ever… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 10:53 AM |
| -4 | Where did this ridiculous notion come from that men lack emotional competence because they are only allowed to feel angerNot everyone has become a woke Karen, yet. Thank God. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 10:30 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat Megathreadhaha well the ASI was just supposed to be to establish the terms of the hypothetical. Not a serious AI point. But yeah, if you get sci-fi enough then all our current issues disappear, likely replaced with whole new ones. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 10:29 AM |
| 24 | Listening is not the same as agreeing. Why do many woman equate the 2?The faucet spraying water all over the kitchen is not the type of problem where you usually see women talking feelings and men talking emotions. Everyone knows that you gotta turn off the fucking water right the fuck now. It's usually more complex human problems, like a boss you don't get along well with, a friendship going badly, or a relationship issue. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 09:38 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadFair enough. I have a kind of sympathy for divine male/divine female complementarity woo woo shit. I don't take it literally, but do look for perspectives where the genders are equal and equally good for one another. That said, I often get called on that by women saying it is mystical thinking. There is equilibrium and harmony in the gender roles of non-sentient animals because all that matters is what works overall. The 'fairness' of the gender burdens, or how they treat one another, is irrelev… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 09:33 AM |
| 5 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?I agree there is some complex interaction here. Not sure it is as strong as you suggest, but maybe. A common complaint I have is when say some men want to end state welfare because it 'replaces' the male role, women counter that such men just want to buy sex then. Basically, they want to be financially more necessary, and so women will pair with them but not actually be more attracted. However, I argue that female attraction is complex. When a guy is more needed, he then tends to get seen as mor… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 09:24 AM |
| 3 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?Well, respectfully, I think you are contradicting yourself. You are suggesting that being in greater demand due to less supply would actually alter the innate character of the remaining men, making them more attractive. But even then, some men will still be unfuckable on absolute terms alone. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 09:11 AM |
| 13 | Where did this ridiculous notion come from that men lack emotional competence because they are only allowed to feel angerI would say that unless it is pathological or creating legit physical fear, male anger is generally more acceptable. It does less to diminish a man's mate value than female anger. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 09:08 AM |
| 2 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?Hmm...well I think 'it's natural' shouldn't be the end of the discussion. Culture usually goes with the grain of evolved instincts, but there are many occasions where culture is specifically trying to counter ingrained impulses, too. But I do agree that in theory it is more important for someone not to be forced into sex with someone they fund unattractive than for unattractive people to get sex, all other things being equal. Though, of course, all other things are never equal. But if base biolo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 09:05 AM |
| 2 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?Women do not rate men entirely relatively. There is a relative aspect, and complex ways in which other factors like availability, exclusivity, usefulness actually do bleed into and impact raw desire to some extent. But just having less men does not guarantee that women will find the remaining ones sufficiently attractive. Culling men does prevent sexually excluded men from acting up, though. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:54 AM |
| 8 | What does "insecure" even means?There's truth to this in general. But dick comments are special and do go towards natural insecurities. There is really no female equivalent to saying a guy has a small dick because it doesn't just call into question superficial attractiveness. It calls into question someone's actual mechanical ability to create pleasure in a partner. ANd also their basic manhood. If 'sloppy' or loose pussy were more common, this would be closer to an equivalent. And it would be devastating to women, too. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:42 AM |
| 2 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?BTW did you mean the anti-natalist arguments are bullshit? I didnt follow. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:37 AM |
| 5 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?I agree, everyone's sexuality needs constraining no matter what mating architecture you choose. But how much and in what ways are key questions. And I also agree that Darwinian social competition probably does show that widespread monogamy is the most socially stable and socially competitive way to organize mating. BUT. BUT. One could argue that given recent technology changes, what was true before may not be true now. Nobody has tried anything different recently. What if there are other ways, a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:33 AM |
| 20 | Listening is not the same as agreeing. Why do many woman equate the 2?Yeah, this is now cliche advice to men. But I kind of find it treats women like children when maybe they are actually being MORE insightful than men on this, at least in many situations. Women may recognize that a true and lasting 'solution' to various problems first requires that the woman really sort out her emotions and how she feels. So this 'support' is not in contrast to 'solutions'. It is rather the beginning of a process to come to a true solution rather than just pretending we are robot… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:19 AM |
| 7 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?Everyone and everything has a price. The issue with the 'pay mothers more' plan that everyone says 'can't work' is that society and potential mothers do not agree on price. Yes, subsidizing motherhood has been tried, but essentially women are saying 'Not enough.' | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:10 AM |
| 3 | So uh... how about that fertility crisis huh?But the fertility crisis impacts everywhere. Even those parts of the world with positive growth are trending towards negative at a much faster rate than expected. Plus, there are limits to how much you can immigration a country can handle. Assuming we are not in some temporary overpopulation scenario, you need replacement TFR or close to it eventually. And I agree that people laying the birthrate crisis on a chance in gender dynamics or female behavior are doing so prematurely with too much cert… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:09 AM |
| 8 | Why are people still so hesitant to admit that two-parent households are best for kids and that fathers are important?People shouldn't have an issue admitting obvious facts, but we are human. So we do. That said, I can understand the reticence to admit the above. See, the above factors are only necessarily true within a given context and cultural setup. However, many women (and usually unconsciously) are sort of wondering whether the entire widespread, enforced monogamy architecture for family creation and child raising basically goes against hardwired aspects of female nature. It may run against their innate l… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 08:03 AM |
| 2 | How easy is it for you to find a romantic partner who doesn’t hold (what you would consider to be) a dogmatic or cultish ideology?Exceptional women drive the feminism buss. As you get closer to parity in terms of advantages/disadvantages when chasing the top, competitive jobs, every last disadvantage gets even more annoying. Just human nature. Now you are really in the running, and you feel every extra pound you have to carry compared to your competitors. Life can be becoming overall tilted in favor of women at the median, but when judged purely using the metrics of power and status and wealth, women trying to 'break the g… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 07:49 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadA world without men! Assume we get AI right and figure out single-sex reproduction. So women are in a position where , in theory, there could be a world without men and women suffer no significant loss of security, material prosperity, and so on. Given time to adjust, are women overall ultimately happier this way? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 07:39 AM |
| 10 | Women being immediately drawn to men they see with other women is less about preselection and more about herd mentality/competitiveness.I agree these are not the same thing, but they are both aspects of pre-selection. Whichever does more lifting is contextual. But men are also very competitive, and preselection does very little for men. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 07:07 AM |
| 1 | Is there legitimately an actual correlation with causation to women wearing revealing clothing and promiscuity?I'm sure there is a correlation, though how strong depends on the given culture. But the point of sexual modesty is not really about whether it results in less sexual assault in an easy to see causal train. It isn't even about how much actual sex people in revealing clothes have. Sexual modesty is about a deeper understanding of how humans--men and women-- actually function. Sex is nature's original drug. Like all drugs, it can become addictive and distort the rest of reality if you are not care… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 06:21 AM |
| 12 | Women justify their biases against men all the time, but men are condemned for doing the sameIt's an interesting side point if one gender's complaints are sympathized with a lot more than the other's. It might mean something valid. Or not. But at the end of the day, expecting that these complaints necessarily should be balanced is a version of the Just World Fallacy. We are the only intelligent animals. We have developed moral and ethical systems that go beyond innate, evolved animal instincts. It would be a miracle of coincidence if our evolved moral systems ended up mapping onto innat… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 06:06 AM |
| 1 | Is the objectification of sex just an inevitable part of life?The best argument for prostitution is that it is a 'necessary evil'. I dunno if I buy that, but even if I did, let's all remember that it is an 'evil'. So is porn. It is obvious. But then we face a logistics question. Is the cost of making prostitution (or porn) illegal higher than the benefit accrued from trying to do so? I don't know. With porn, maybe so. It is very hard to really get rid of porn without becoming tyrannical, particularly in a culture where the law is the only socially regulati… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 05:39 AM |
| 2 | What’s your opinion on the 4B movement coming to America?You need 2.1 kids or the population goes to zero. You need to create some sort of stable and sustainable accommodation with men or the society will devolve into a shithole because men aren't going anywhere. Now, if we want to talk about theory, then that would be different. There are many women who argue that when you total all things up, women would be happier in a world without men provided some technological way to handle reproduction had been invented. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 04:35 AM |
| 2 | What’s your opinion on the 4B movement coming to America?4B is not the solution we are looking for. Neither is MGTOW. At best, both are temporary bargaining positions for a gender. Everyone sane knows that at the end of the day, men and women need to work together to create a society. Unless someone has some amazing new idea, we need widespread monogamy for family creation and child raising. We can argue whether we are temporarily overpopulated, but at some point you need 2.1 kids per woman. So the question is (not) simply: How are we gonna get this d… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/03/24 01:11 AM |
| 2 | do you all believe that the common English idiomatic expression "settle down" means "settle for"?Well, the Wall and Body Count conversations are where nuance goes to die. Certain elements of the manosphere weaponized these topics as part of a revenge fantasy. In response, too many female posters 'fight their side' and say stupid shit like that the genders age the same way, or oversell the dangers of sperm from older males and so on. The Gender Wars are a wonderful thing. The real truth is that 'the Wall' just refers to a rather sudden loss in raw sexual attractiveness to males of all ages a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/03/24 09:22 PM |
| 1 | do you all believe that the common English idiomatic expression "settle down" means "settle for"?Sorry. Don't really follow what you mean by this. What are women avoiding? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/03/24 08:58 PM |
| 2 | do you all believe that the common English idiomatic expression "settle down" means "settle for"?Well, I don't think the reality here is super clear. Clearly this dynamic happens, but it's a matter of extent. How common is it? Is it increasingly common? In which demographics? The Devil is in the details here IMO. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/03/24 08:24 PM |
| 10 | do you all believe that the common English idiomatic expression "settle down" means "settle for"?I think many (most?) know the difference between the expressions. It's that there is a common manosphere theory that amounts to women 'settling for' the guy they 'settle down' with a lot more than is commonly believed. At the end of the day, the real question being asked is whether a lot of women in the West end up having less real sexual attraction to the man they marry in their 30s as compared to guys she slept with in her 20s. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/03/24 09:19 AM |
| 2 | Men, if you made $1M a year, would you want a bang maid or a 50/50 relationship?It's very contextual. I'm a believer that most modern jobs are shit and soul destroying. So ideally, number one. But the woman would matter more. If the choice were more positive on both ends, I might change my mind. If it were a choice between a woman whose true passions are satisfied by a work/life balance that tilts strongly towards home, and another woman who is in a meaningful field and is truly passionate and in love with her work, I might choose the second. But I'm not typical, and such w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/03/24 10:37 AM |
| 2 | The "quiet" male revolution.Depends how many check out | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 01:14 PM |
| 3 | A huge chunk of women find it sexy to feel vulnerable in relationships with explains the appeal of bad boys as well as the appeal of large menThis isn't it. It isn't about being 'vulnerable' really. Liking bad boys, liking to be dominated in bed, and even liking tall guys do share some common causation, but are not entirely driven by the same things. The 'women like assholes' is especially complex if you deep dive into it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 12:43 PM |
| 3 | I hear the statement "The bar for men is extremely low these days" a lot in the context of dating, sex, and relationships. Is the bar low for men's looks or personality/character/effort?I have just noticed this miscommunication about what they mean by 'the bar' several times here in PPD. That said, I can't speak for all the women here. Maybe some do have the same meaning for 'the bar' as men, and feel that women are not pickier than men, and less picky than ever. That would be insane. But possible. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 12:40 PM |
| 3 | Measures to get over a crush.I'm not sure if one can accelerate this bit of male wisdom. But maybe. The thing is that most youthful infatuations are built on hormone and chemical surges. The feelings go beyond just lust, but there is an erotic longing at the core. So what I'm saying is that it is unlikely she was THAT special, she just felt that way because you were hopped up on biological chemicals designed to make you breed. It's possible that she was THE ONE, or one of the few ONES. But unlikely. If she was that special,… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 12:37 PM |
| 9 | A double standard i’ve noticed with how a notable amount women react to online dating content directed at men vs womenYeah, some women have gone insane about many things. Modern woke politics accelerated feminism off the cliff, especially in the universities. Boys underachieving is a problem. The extent to which education is stacked against them unfairly is hard to determine. It is complex, but there are areas of concern, for sure. Women in the West are clearly not an oppressed group. Whether they are still unfairly disadvantaged overall--or even advantaged--is tough to say. So many variables. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 12:27 PM |
| 4 | A double standard i’ve noticed with how a notable amount women react to online dating content directed at men vs womenHis post is not really non-sensical. It may suffer a bit, like many arguments, from treating more extreme cases as representative of what is more typical. But there really are a lot of women who have been indoctrinated into nearly insane beliefs, just like the manosphere has done similar things to a lot of men. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 12:22 PM |
| 11 | A double standard i’ve noticed with how a notable amount women react to online dating content directed at men vs womenDemonstrably may be too strong. It is a complex area making proving something really hard. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 10:40 AM |
| 4 | A double standard i’ve noticed with how a notable amount women react to online dating content directed at men vs womenThat's true. If it is about something potentially endangering, then for sure it is about differences in impact. And women tend to look at worst case impact on an individual, rather than overall harm. Some female behavior could be a lot more common and thus harmful overall. But if a certain male behavior can, if rarely, lead to murder, then that is what rings the alarm bells. We are all just dressed up apes in the end. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 07:24 AM |
| 18 | I hear the statement "The bar for men is extremely low these days" a lot in the context of dating, sex, and relationships. Is the bar low for men's looks or personality/character/effort?I think this is a miscommunication. The bar men are referring to is how selective women are about their partner's qualities before they can be attracted to him or sleep with him or commit. I believe the bar women are referring to is the actions a man needs to perform and conditions he needs to meet in order to get sex. This presumes an attractive man to the woman in question, and is not about what it takes to be attractive to her. Rather, it is a comment about how historically even attractive me… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 05:21 AM |
| 39 | A double standard i’ve noticed with how a notable amount women react to online dating content directed at men vs womenA lot of women believe that life in the West is still advantageous to men, and many believe it is still overwhelmingly so. If one believes that, it is human nature to worry more about negative stuff aimed at the oppressed group than negative stuff aimed at the oppressors. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/03/24 05:16 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThat sounds about right. Not sure if I fully buy men crafting or using 'the letter of the law' specifically to marginalize women in general. Men seem willing to weaponize it against anyone whom they are at odds with. Now, the supposedly 'universal principles' men come up with may well end up slanted towards male experience or male desires in many ways. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 11:10 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYes, I agree that without getting into semantics, women are more emotional than men. And they are less concerned with coherence, consistency or subordinating their behavior to higher, more abstract principles. But that doesn't mean who a man is, how he acts, etc. are essentially not important to women, that they lead lives of almost total solipsism. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 04:48 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadUltimately, everything is processed through how we perceive it. But all parts play a role. Different personalities make women feel different ways. And if you look at tit this way, then men care about how women make them feel as well. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 04:26 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI like women. They are not evil. No more than men; probably less so. They do care about personality; it is just that what generates sufficient sexual attraction to put a guy on the menu for further consideration is not 'niceness'. But the same is true for how men feel about women. It is just that it takes way less to generate sufficient sexual attraction. The women as domestic angels stuff was clearly manufactured. Probably as a means of social control for men and women. The lie has some benefit… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 02:44 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWell, personality matters. But yeah, not so much being moral. I do wonder where this all started. Maybe the Victorians wanted to set women up as these moral paragons for some reason. I forget. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 02:16 PM |
| 3 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI'm fine with it. People are fucked up. If this is as strange as she gets, I'm ahead of game and can breathe a sigh of relief. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 02:03 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI'm not Blackpilled, so I do believe it is a lot more than looks that matter. But while my question was a bit rhetorical, I do wonder where and when the narrative that female sexuality is designed to be attracted to nobility, kindness, goodness, and so on began. Unclear whether the ancients really believed the female libido was stronger than the male, but many certainly believed women had a harder time controlling it and themselves, and were lustful creatures whose sexuality was not pure in any … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 02:01 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI dunno about Chad Chad. But I saw a lot of guys like him sleep with a lot of women during the college years, in conditions just as bad. This is NOT the gay aesthetic. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 01:57 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWomen are aware of the general dynamic that so much female attention given to a smaller group of men often helps turn these men into bad actors when it comes to dating. But again, what is the alternative? Fuck men they find unattractive? They have to take the risk. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 11:21 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat Megathreadlol well most of them do want to monogamously mate with the right guy. But if it is between monogamy with men they don't find attractive or time sharing men they do, what choice do they have? Now, WHY they find so few men attractive is a whole other question. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 11:10 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI wonder why it has been so hard for men to accept that women are, in fact, almost as concerned about male looks as men are about female looks, when it comes to choosing sex partners. So many men will say awful things about women all the time, but then act shocked that women do not have the sexuality of angels. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 11:02 AM |
| 4 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadAnd yet, I suspect a number of young ladies have gently stepped around the trash on the floor to be willing recipients of whatever awaits in that 'bed'. Such is life. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 10:59 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI don't think they frame it like this. These women would usually like an exclusive monogamous relationship. The issue is simply a limited number of men they find attractive enough for sex to be worthwhile, and so the women have to make do. Those men who are attractive get a lot of options and this often makes them into worse actors than they otherwise would have been. Power corrupts and all that. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 10:58 AM |
| 2 | Question: If a woman asks for a divorce over emotional needs, is it okay to divorce over physical needs?Context is key hear. What kinds of emotional needs? How would a man meet them? What kinds of physical needs? How would a woman meet them? It is definitely acceptable to divorce if you aren't ever having sex. But you also have to be realistic about sexual expectations. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 10:55 AM |
| 0 | Women, what's something (behaviour, presentation, expression) traditionally seen as "feminine" that you find attractive in men? Men, what's something traditionally seen as "masculine" that you find attractive in women?haha though if we push 'traditional' hard enough, long hair is for men too! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 08:14 AM |
| 1 | Why would women be jealous of a young woman getting married, if they want to ride the CC instead?To the extent the CC is real and desired, it is just the 'least bad' option. Basically, it is a pessimistic take that when freed of the need to trade resources for sex, innate female sexual selectivity is actually very high. Thus, there just won't be that many attractive men around. Most women do want to meet and commit to the perfect guy. But if they cannot land or find one, then being able to fuck around with hot guys when young, and possibly land one, beats being forced to be celibate or fuck… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 07:27 AM |
| 1 | How to handle her desire to deeply connect and sleep with other guyYou may have causality wrong. Of course, women are not a monolith. And their sexuality is complex and filled with internal tensions, especially in a novel environment they were not evolved for. But often, if a woman is sharing dark secrets with a guy, she may be doing so because she is already connected and she feels an attraction. Not sure how often it works the other way around and the actual sharing of the secrets builds the sexual attraction. As for the OP, what is it really asking? Will you… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 07:21 AM |
| 2 | Is there an epidemic of straight Millenial/GenZ women falsely claiming to be lesbians?Most of what you claim are red flags for fake lesbians I have found to be true of real lesbians at various stages of their lives. It is true that Lesbian communities tend to eschew men more than gay male communities eschew women. But this never stopped them from complaining about men--maybe because most Lesbians can never fully weed men out of their lives. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 07:16 AM |
| 3 | Men only have importance to women as providers.Esther Villar is a trip. Always provoking; but a little nuts, too. Male, not female, preferences tend to ultimately hold sway in how women dress. But yes, it is indirect and women are thinking of other women when they dress. That is true. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 07:10 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI dont know what JBP is up to on religion. My suspicion is that he believes--like many have--that religions need tiered beliefs. The masses need a concrete religion with real supernatural examples. The more enlightened cannot believe such things, but can believe in a more abstracted god. Thus, a need for a kind of public noble lie so that the more enlightened don't say things that rob the masses of what they need from religion. This is why so much obfuscation over questions like does he literall… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 07:02 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadMost of the semitic religions have tried to constrain top men in theory, ofc. But the extent to which they are able to do so varies. Judaism is a private religion. Islam was not in existence then. So the contrast between old school Roman religion and Xtianity was extreme. Christianity said treat you wife as an equal (sorta). Don't fuck your slave women. So forth. I like religions. I just dont think most can be believed by modern people anymore. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 06:39 AM |
| 3 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYes, early Christianity was very popular with women as it actually tried to constrain powerful men. I don't have fixed thoughts on all these things. ALways looking at the arguments from different sides. There is the Jordan Peterson-style argument that in the big picture, men and women were complementary and cooperated as best they could to survive, based on each gender's innate abilities. But there is a non-crazy feminist retort that acknowledges this is somewhat true. But also says that in a ma… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 06:09 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat Megathreadhaha interesting. The issue for women, though, is that generally anything done to keep a man in check is not good for her actual attraction to that man. Some have argued that this is part of the essential tragedy of evolved female mate choice priorities. What is sexy to them may well not be good for them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:45 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYou sound like a FtM trans experiencing Testosterone therapy for the first time. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:41 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWill evolved men be as viscerally attractive to women? Or will women continue to complain that men don't do their part and haven't adapted, while sexually rewarding the more ancestral-like alpha guys? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:30 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadMaybe. I'm just saying that the literature on the advent of monogamy is complex and there is a lot of disagreement--both on how and why monogamy arose. Women also do not like polygamy. It is bad for them in general. You have created a scenario where it is their 'least bad option' when polygamy is popular among women, In general, the literature shows that monogamy works best the less differentiated men are. If you are in a native american tribe in 1200, and all the men are thin and fit. Same raci… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:28 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadNot mad. She just factors in those types of flatter distributions for males into her overall analysis. In fact, she feels it is the right tailed men (for which women have no real equivalent) that even make men worthwhile and on par with women overall. Take them away and we are just inferior women in the modern era. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:23 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadMaybe lol Was a fun convo, though. Older people often do not give a fuck. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:22 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadRight. That is one of the theories. Clearly a factor. How it actually all went down is a mystery. It is hard to see high status men just giving up their advantages... And there were ways around this. Supposedly the werewolf meme comes from a common tradition of gathering surplus boys as they came of age and expelling them from the tribe to go into the world themselves and see what they can make of it. But as the world gets more crowded, less free space to just expel your boys to. Also, there wer… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:19 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt's unclear how many men in the stone age had large harems. Seems to me the social organization wasn't conducive to that. Similarly, the idea that male kin completely chose a daughter's mate in the stone age seems unlikely. Don't have the social control technology to really make that work. Everyone will have to live very intimately with that couple. Pissed off women have been hard to live with since forever, no matter what 'formal power' a patriarch would have. In fact, the biggest reproductive… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:13 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt is hard to parse the extremes vs. typical when it comes to men. Not like I agree with my Mom on all the details here. Just was shocked to see such strong and curated opinions from her. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:06 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadOFC looks always mattered, even for men. But they were not the status symbol they used to be, which greatly amplifies their effect. On the other hand, as some posters have noticed, this double counting of looks (once for just hotness and twice for status) kinda does an imperfect replication of taking us back to the era our instincts evolved for. The argument here is that while looks would not have been status in the Stone Age, they would have been much more correlated with status due to other fa… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:05 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat Megathreadmaybe. dont think so, though. but maybe. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 05:00 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat Megathreadlol yeah, though she does hate Chad. She like handsome men, but thinks its a sign of male degeneracy that male appearance is being given such status now instead of mocked by other great men. A sign that men have nothing left to offer if being handsome gets you status among men and women like it does now, instead of laughed at as a pretty boy. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 04:57 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWell, this was her other point. She does believe the genders are roughly 'equal'. But she is a big 'male variability' proponent. She feels men don't account for just how good life is for top men when they say that things are female centered now. Her argument is that even though relatively smaller in number, life is so good for the top 20% or 30% of men that it really does move the overall needle. Moreover, she takes it further. Hypergamy of various sorts is needed because most average and below … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 04:53 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadShe's smart, but wasn't expecting her to be this ready for TRP-style convo. Her opinions are...strong. She was like 'No matter what needs to be said in public, don't think us women have forgotten 10 thousand fucking years of exploitation. We have not. It goes beyond any anger. The fact that men exploited us more than was needed by biology--more than we would have exploited them if somehow women had had the power--simply reveals true male nature. And, as an aside, we are still pissed. All of us. … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 04:44 AM |
| 2 | In today's age, do people truly believe that a man's "resources" are really that important?That depends on how many resources. And maybe he needed resources and status to even get his looksmatch. The idea that women only rate men relative to one another is a huge TRP mistake. Women evaluate men relative to one another, relative to historic ideals, to absolute metrics. Even to herself. So there is a school of thought that lower tier guys have so declined that lower tier (in mate value) women simply are not interested in their SMV rank equal (rough equal) because that man is repulsive n… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 04:41 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat MegathreadMY 75-year old Mom is fucking pink pilled. She told me that men are naturally greedier, lazier and more unfair than women. Beyond even the inevitable factors associated women's 'disadvantaged' biology, men have always made sure that life is easier for them than women. In her opinion, men (in general) have never been able to even their contributions in a relationship once the need for a man to risk life and limb regularly actually defending his mate, children and tribe was gone. Outsourcing to an… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 04:36 AM |
| 2 | In today's age, do people truly believe that a man's "resources" are really that important?Money and prestige are huge benefits to that senior partner in the dating arena. And you neglect the way that status and accomplishment impact how a woman looks at a man in many ways. Sometimes it can just be very temporary and local status. Like the office grinder who is in charge of a convention one weekend and seeming more attractive because he is MCing and in charge. Another thing that is happening is that male looks are in some ways being double counted compared to other areas. Male looks a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 04:24 AM |
| 1 | Why are women so keen on having male friendsThe problem is that in English, 'friend' covers too much ground. Most women I know do NOT have close male friends the same way they have female friends. Those friends women did have, they had when younger and were more like 'good time facilitator' acquaintances. Males have a talent for getting more bored than women and inventing shit to do. Younger women I know liked having that around. Didn't mean he was truly her bestie the way her female BFF was. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 04:02 AM |
| 5 | In today's age, do people truly believe that a man's "resources" are really that important?This modern idea that you can draw bright lines between a woman being truly desirous of you sexually and a woman trading sex for resources, status, lifestyle, security, etc. is ultimately wrong. Yes, there are these different poles: sexual desire vs. desire to be in your life for the advantages you offer. But female psychology is complex, as are evolved instincts. Money and status actually are sexually exciting to a certain degree to women. But beyond that, being needed and powerful and capable … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 03:56 AM |
| 2 | Disregarding appearance, modern dating dynamics naturally select for emotionally unavailable menWomen don't select for emotionally unavailable men. They select for emotionally strong men whose somewhat different emotional makeup complements innate female emotionality. Women have always selected for this when possible. Men select other men based on this, in the male hierarchy. In fact, it actually aligns with male nature. Men just need to figure this shit out. There are many situations where the novel modern environment is in tension with some aspects of our evolved instincts. And so we nee… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 01:24 AM |
| 3 | The best and most healthy relationships in the real world usually involve women who are crazier for their male partner than the other way around.Yes, since nothing can be equal, it is closer to the ideal for women to have the stronger feelings. But they probably should be close. This is really an off-shoot of basic hypergamy where it is more important for the woman to admire (in certain key qualities) the man than the other way around. On the other hand, the vast majority of relationships are not ideal and will not approach the ideal. A lot of women raise a valid point that hedging the risks is more important to them than trying to achie… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 01:18 AM |
| 2 | The real wall is menopauseThe Wall is ultimately the loss of raw male attraction that a woman suffers when she loses neoteny and beauty. Even when she remains very attractive, as age creeps into her appearance, the neoteny factor wanes and men treat her differently. Still sexy and desirable, but less of that 'I'm madly in love with you. Would die for you. Will do anything for you.' Technology and lifestyle have pushed the Wall back a bit and made the decline less steep. Less sun exposure. Less early pregnancies and breas… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 01:13 AM |
| 1 | Red pillers are delusional beyond helping, and none of their statements make senseThe self-improvement part is the most coherent aspect of TRP. One might ask what the OP's expectations are? Nobody said TRP will take someone with the worst genetics and have them banging the Swedish bikini model team. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/03/24 12:50 AM |
| 5 | Men of this sub, do you believe that most men have practically no standards?What's the difference between a standard and a preference? Men have preferences. A standard is a threshold that, if not met, you will walk, and/or feel no actual sexual attraction. Men very much have preferences. Their actual sexual attraction floors tend to be much more plastic than women's. The less options. The more time without a partner. The lower that floor will go. A lot of men have basically no standards for casual. Relationship standards are higher, but again, more flexible than you thi… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/03/24 11:58 PM |
| 1 | David Buss and flaws in the Dual Mating Strategy hypothesisI don't think dual mating requires ovulatory shift to have some validity. Buss's ultimate conjecture is that dual-mating, when possible, is not necessarily inconsistent with female instinct. The problem is that men mate guarded too well. True dual mating was generally too dangerous in history, so instead women had to go with mate switching. So it is possible that Buss is generally right, but that Rollo is not entirely wrong. Perhaps in today's environment where dual mating is easier to pull off,… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/03/24 09:15 PM |
| 13 | Does the "friend zone" mainly consist of males? If so, why?Because the feminist meme that 'friendzoned' guys (real FZ is rare, but whatever, you know what I mean) are these calculating manipulators trying to ignore female agency is total bullshit. The vast majority of guys in these situations are semi-clueless and young. They caught feels. They bought into various messages about how decency and loyalty and love are the keys to getting a girl. They are in love with their friend, or close enough. So fucking them, and getting that much closer to the real r… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/24 08:02 AM |
| 9 | Does the "friend zone" mainly consist of males? If so, why?Until recently at least, women were more naturally red pilled about these things. They knew their level better. Most FZs are just a guy thinking that because he has an emotional connection with a woman and they enjoy each other's company that this overrides the sexual competition aspect of mating. They are wrong. Women always knew this, though recently some seem pretty deluded about their level and are getting fuckzoned, which is just the friendzone plus sex. Men in the friendzone think this is … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/24 06:04 AM |
| 2 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?As an unrelated aside, I am seeing more truth to your argument that at the lower end of sexual marketplace, it is not unnatural for it to be women who date up in looks. Was looking at old pics of young couples while talking to some older women. These guys were thin, fit, athletic. The girls were not obese like today, but also due to gender differences back then, not really fit. Men were the physical ones. Since we do scale our attraction thresholds to our own self-perceived attractiveness (but v… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/24 05:04 AM |
| 2 | The "All women are 10's" phenomenon - How Male competition (overt) and female competition (covert) works and why female cooperation is leading women to delusionEmotions are not reliable. But they are also the only thing that makes anything worth doing. So they are the only game in town. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/24 03:47 AM |
| 2 | The "All women are 10's" phenomenon - How Male competition (overt) and female competition (covert) works and why female cooperation is leading women to delusionThat's too much Mr. Spock for this full human. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot going wrong with how far some women take this concept of using emotion to regulate other emotion. This is especially true for the cherry picked girls in manosphere ragebait videos. I'm just saying we should remember that building up once's confidence, psyching oneself up, etc., are also real things people do. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/24 03:27 AM |
| -1 | Maybe a lack of third spaces isn't the issue - society has just become more puritanical about where/when this is acceptableYes. Women should be able to be in many spaces and know that they will not be approached by strange men very often. OTOH women should then work with men to help figure out how best men and women should meet up and be introduced. It ain't OLD. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/24 03:09 AM |
| 2 | The "All women are 10's" phenomenon - How Male competition (overt) and female competition (covert) works and why female cooperation is leading women to delusionThank you. You inspired my own post on the matter. Women know that sometimes you need more than logic and objective analysis to keep your own emotions in the right order. When did men get so autistic they forgot this? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/24 01:15 AM |
| 13 | The "All women are 10's" phenomenon - How Male competition (overt) and female competition (covert) works and why female cooperation is leading women to delusionWhile the explicit logic of a lot of the female posts here is totally trash, implicitly they are telling us men a deep wisdom that men in their autistic phase seem to have forgotten. We are emotional beings. Emotions are pretty much what give anything purpose. And guess what? These emotions are by no means under our complete conscious control. Sometimes, to keep things moving right, you have to use one set of emotions to balance out another, even if that means 'lying' to yourself on one level. U… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/24 01:14 AM |
| 1 | Unsolicited dick picsIt's consensual non-monogamy. But as far as that goes, classic swinging had a lot of structures to keep things in check and the main relationships healthy. You did it later in life, when the foundations of the marriage were secure and you were both mature. You did it with a local group who were friends first. You did it as a couple, which constrained female sexual leverage from getting out of hand. You prioritized good people whose non-sexual company you enjoyed. The more modern version is done … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 07:32 PM |
| 2 | How bad Is in a relationship not being able to orientate/know Places? How bad Is being an inept?Being inept is a dealbreaker to most women. But there is a big difference between being inept at something and being inept overall. This could be a cute and even endearing quirk if the guy is competent and confident overall. If it is emblematic of everything in his life, then he better be really fucking beautiful. And even then... | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 06:19 PM |
| 1 | Unsolicited dick picsSome do, some don't. But men or women will usually justify their actions if they can. I just remember being taken aback by her forthrightness. Why do you get to fuck hotter guys than yourself, but your husband often does not, when you go out swinging. And her just saying 'Who said it is fair? I do it because I can. Men would if they could.' Anyways, not saying she is representative of all women. Just rambling at this point haha | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 06:12 PM |
| – | Unsolicited dick picsBut they can never actually be like men. No matter how much a woman may decide she wants to fuck like a man, and just choose some partner for purely physical characteristics, if he opens his mouth and says the wrong thing, he can still talk himself out of a fucking lol. And it isn't just about commitment benefits or not. Women in modern swinger mode will often not go for even their looksmatch simply because they can get better. They are the ones in demand. I even asked my friend about this once.… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 05:54 PM |
| 1 | Unsolicited dick picsThat is interesting. My experience with women is that when you ramp up their sexuality and libido, it doesn't work out the way men hoped. Men think it will turn women into men with vaginas and everyone will be fucking. Like they hoped in the 60s. But when you ramp up female sexuality it tends to--surprise--ramp up along female lines and not male. They often get MORE sexually selective. And they stop being as holistic in their now even more pickier judgment and start to focus on the top men in he… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 05:45 PM |
| 1 | Unsolicited dick picsI never liked nudes even from lovers. Most women I know didn't like dick pics--certainly not ones that were basically a disembodied penis. They didn't mind a well-crafted whole body shot with an erect or semi-erect penis in it. But not some dick with no context shot. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 04:42 PM |
| 2 | Unsolicited dick picsDon't get me wrong. I would never. It's just all wrong all the way around. That said, interesting to try to figure out why this happens. There must be some demographic of women that dick pics helps with. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 04:19 PM |
| 5 | Without the influence of modern culture, men would be more successful with women.The issue here is what are you positing as the baseline or natural cultural conditions? Conditions and cultures always varied. Also, I am not sure about some of your assumptions. A womb has innate value; sperm is cheap and plentiful. There are also arguments that women have evolved to be more attractive than men in some objective way, and not just to men due to make thirst. Women have always cared about a man's productivity because the whole point of the monogamy revolution was that undercooked … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 04:13 PM |
| 3 | manosphere dudes are turning off the very women they are trying attract and seem oblivious to this.Women should more actively engage in these discussions with candor and good faith if they want to help get rid of some of the more toxic aspects of the manosphere. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 03:15 PM |
| 3 | You can't change what you're attracted to. But most people can compromise on certain preferences.I agree that external influence on what women find attractive is strong. This idea that their level of selectivity or the criteria they care about is all biology is total bullshit. However, what too many men fail to understand is how profoundly culture and environment can mold you. They think that if some woman just realizes that she has zero chance of landing any of the men she thinks are on her level that she will magically just be able to be change her programming and become super attracted t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 12:57 PM |
| 14 | Maybe a lack of third spaces isn't the issue - society has just become more puritanical about where/when this is acceptableI don't know if there was some Golden Age of publicly accessible women. But I do know that in the broad scope of history it is rare to make women available to unsolicited male propositioning with no common acquaintance or introduction. I'm not sure this is all bad. We may have to figure out a better way for men and women to get introduced romantically, but it is quite possible women are happier in an environment where men are scared to just chat up any woman they find attractive. Maybe men shoul… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 12:49 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThat's not exactly true. Or rather the big picture where the investment pays off is bigger and more complicated than you make it out to be. The Ukraine war is not about saving Ukraine or making money on weapons or the rebuilding. It's about protecting the post-WW2 order, something that DOES make many nations a lot of money compared to the alternative. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 12:37 PM |
| 4 | You can't change what you're attracted to. But most people can compromise on certain preferences.Yes, culture and environment influence standards, thresholds and preferences way more than people admit here. BUT that doesn't mean an individual can easily change the cumulative impact of all these influences. Not just by 'thinking' and doing it on their own. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 12:32 PM |
| 2 | Unsolicited dick picsIt's possible this is some mass male delusion. But more likely there is some market for this. Someone is getting advantage from sending unsolicited dick pics I guess. I am aware that there is a subculture of fairly promiscuous women that want the dick pic, though often not because it turns them on, but rather because they want to avoid wasting time by quickly disqualifying men who don't meet their penis requirements. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 12:28 PM |
| 3 | Is it true that most people cannot lower their standards biologically?True standards are obviously created by nature AND nurture. So IN THEORY any impact that culture and environment has on standards could be undone. But undoing environmental influences is not as simple usually as just understanding what has happened and then 'thinking' your standards lower. Not how humans work. And here I am talking about TRULY lowering standards such that 6/10s now seem attractive to you when before they did not. This isn't about just going with a less attractive option that is … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/24 12:54 AM |
| 2 | what people miss when giving advices to men is that men operate in a hierarchy .The idea that women only compare men to one another is a TRP mistake. By this thinking, if all men became magically more attractive by the same amount, it would make no difference. This just isn't true. Women also compare men to absolute standards. To historic ideal of men. To the woman herself, which is what hypergamy is really about at core. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 11:32 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadRight. But the more probably and less extreme arguments don't require some titanic inversion of the sexual marketplace. They say there have been significant and impactful shifts in percentages. These are important, especially if they continue. But they would also be hard to really detect just by anecdotal surveys and such. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 10:49 PM |
| 1 | Men of the western society, I'd like to know if you're really not able to find even one decent woman out there?This is actually complex. In terms of trying to assess the big picture, unless you are arguing that the inflated female selectivity apocalypse has actually already happened, we are talking about % changes in the SMP that will be significant and impactful, but not necessarily easily seen with anecdotal surveys or touching grass at your local Wal*Mart. But there is also a game of expectations. When presented with the picture of a guy who has several LTRs in his 20s and then marries one, a lot of m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 10:43 PM |
| 3 | Men's self worth and general perception in society is tied to their success with women.There are certainly levels to this. But there is a large group of guys who will be fairly romantically successful in the ways that matter. They will have a couple of LTRs in their 20s and then marry and have kids. Their lives are probably BETTER for not having been a teenaged fuckboy. But instead, they now believe they missed out on some super special experience that they can never get back. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 10:19 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadGotcha. You mean mating based entirely on still images is not ideal when the choosing gender has responsive desire that, in person, responds to a lot more than the visual? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 08:18 PM |
| 1 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?I guess, Boobs are boobs and ass is ass. So I was never overly persuaded by the 'boobs are all fat' thing. But I know that some men really do like more fat. And I know it will always baffle me too. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 08:14 PM |
| 3 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI'm not sure how that applies here? I'm talking about women's ultimate decisions, however they make them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 08:10 PM |
| 9 | Confidence is a psychological regulator, not a mindset people can toggle on at will.I mean it isn't that clear cut. We are the only intelligent species and sometimes we can override biology to some extent. But yes, nice seratonin levels, confidence, a feeling of well being, etc. are all things that both come with status and contribute to achieving and maintaining it. This is what the clued in people have intuitively understood for ages. It is ALL about relative status. Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. Better to be poor but the top poor guy than the poorest rich guy… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 08:03 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadOK. So kinda a mix of a and b. Gotcha. Basically, anything is possible. But right now you see no signs of major change in female selectivity. Either what has been happening for decades still is basically happening; and to the degree it is worse for guys overall it might be because guys have become worse overall. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 07:56 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadFair enough. That is part of the issue IMO. There are ways to guide people's mating decisions without being tyrannical. But most of those institutions are weak or dead. We are left with the Law, which would be a pretty brutal instrument to use for these purposes. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 07:51 PM |
| 1 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?Yeah. That baffles me. Completely. Like why do you want an actual 'fat' ass? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 07:50 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadDo you think its possible for culture and environment to distort the mating market and people's decisions in a way that is, in aggregate, very bad for society? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 07:47 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYou don't think that broader society has any stake at all in people's mating decisions? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 07:46 PM |
| 4 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadFor the women who tend to think most of the male complaining about increased female selectivity is silly, I ask why? Is it that (a) you see no evidence of the kind of increase in female sexual selectivity that would actually cause problems. Or (b) that you feel mating is all about individual choice, and so long as women are choosing freely, it doesn't matter what or how they choose. It is their business. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 07:44 PM |
| 1 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?Perhaps this was a thing when I grew up, but not in my demographic. Maybe it is a newer thing. I just never remember a guy caring about a girl's height unless she was way TOO tall, or like a medical midget. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 07:04 PM |
| 1 | Why are women so aggressively worried about being murdered by men?Right. I teach in China. My students are all going to study in the US for university. They all worry about their safety. When I bring up the stats that the US is actually safer than China, even if you are more likely to die from violence in China, it tends to blow their minds. All they could think about was being shot. Medical quality. Food safety. Road safety. All of those factors were totally lost on them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 07:03 PM |
| 1 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?Sure. There were better asses, and working out might help get one. But at no point was just adding fat to your ass making it sexier. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 07:00 PM |
| 20 | Men's self worth and general perception in society is tied to their success with women.In an increasingly hedonistic culture, sex obsession naturally creeps in. Erotic capital becomes a key aspect of status for both genders. It is true that women have had a chance to evolve some defenses, such as telling themselves it doesn't' really matter because men are just sex obsessed and immature'. But such psychic defenses only go so far. One of the major issues is that the kind of men who were always undesirable to women have very little refuge later in life where they can still have high… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 03:41 PM |
| 1 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?Fair enough. Though I don't really buy into the 'A' part of 'T&A' usually. I dunno. When I grew up, guys would talk about girls being flat chested, but I never really saw it make much difference in a girl's prospects. And I never saw height be an issue. But heh, things can change. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 03:35 PM |
| 2 | Is it just me, or is the idea that men want women to perform “femininity” largely overblown?I don't think men want lapdogs or women who agree with everything. But men intuitively understand hypergamy to some extent. One aspect of it is that if she wins a fight or carries an argument, it's just one event. But men face double jeopardy. Not only can you lose the issue at hand, but rack up too many losses and you will lose her admiration, then respect, and then attraction. So yeah, men want to avoid too much open conflict at home, especially of the kind that if he loses, he loses overall r… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 11:21 AM |
| 4 | Why are women so aggressively worried about being murdered by men?It isnt even about understanding the odds. We simply evolved to worry more about certain things than others, whatever the relative chances. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 09:55 AM |
| 11 | Why are women so aggressively worried about being murdered by men?Humans are not evolved to really internalize statistics when it comes to threat assessment. We have a ton of cognitive biases that get in the way. So yeah, a woman's chances of being murdered by a man do not really rate that high statistically. But it is exactly the kind of danger we evolved to fear and worry about, partly because there is a feeling that you can control things and limit the danger. What are you gonna do about lightning strikes, viruses, cancer or car crashes, really? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 09:54 AM |
| 0 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?I think that is a bit strongly put. I agree that often more of the stuff that we complain about now also happened in the past than many admit. But that also doesn't mean there haven't also been significant changes in these areas. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 08:14 AM |
| 1 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?I think the whole big ass thing was mostly a meme that really never crossed over that much from the racial communities it was always popular in. If you are fit as a girl, you pretty much usually have a nice ass. Some women, especially Asian, can get that true flat ass, which is unfortunate. But barring that, thin = nice ass for most white people IMO. I wouldn't say petite is a male preference. It beats being too tall. And while there are reports men are starting to care more about female height … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 08:12 AM |
| 2 | Do the plethora of choices in men when it comes to online dating and social media make it more difficult for you to commit to one man long-term?When she is young, maybe. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 08:05 AM |
| 8 | In your experience, is it more common for partners to adopt the girlfriend’s or the boyfriend’s friend group?I agree that this is not super gendered. But when viewing it in aggregate, one gendered aspect is that if someone has no friends or a very underdeveloped friend group, it is much more likely to be the man. To some extent this male tendency is screened out in that not having a friend group is usually unattractive to women. But it still happens often enough, for various reasons. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 05:00 AM |
| 1 | Women’s dating preferences are creating a system of vast inequality in datingWhile we will never be able to perfectly parse nurture from nature, we can often get a pretty good idea of the layout of things. It does matter what is 'natural'. That doesn't necessarily mean we will go along with it, but it helps inform us how difficult or costly constraining certain 'natural' behaviors might be. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 04:57 AM |
| 1 | Women’s dating preferences are creating a system of vast inequality in datingSure, it's natural to be more selective. But very hard to get a read on HOW much more selective. Devil is in the details here. And yes, both genders are impacted by social trends. The point is that selectivity can be amplified in good ways and bad. There is some bad right now. It isn't really in a woman's interests to only be able to be attracted to too small a percentage of men, unless of course the 'men' are not a stable target and are actually getting worse by absolute metrics. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 02:45 AM |
| 6 | Would women go redpill if they had to chase and date other women?Having spent some time with Lesbians in my youth, I think a lot of popular culture fails to appreciate that a lot of lesbians and lesbian subculture do have a highly promiscuous youthful phase. Something to do with the lack of danger, from pregnancy, physical strength, etc. But for most of the Lesbians I knew, the U-Haul phase came later. First there was a seriously slutty phase. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 02:40 AM |
| 4 | Would women go redpill if they had to chase and date other women?Mimicking might be the wrong word. But yes, the masculine/feminine duality and polarity makes its way into homosexual dating. That said, Leek isn't wrong to say these archetypes don't get adapted significantly. And they do not always apply across the board. The Butch Lesbian is approximating the male role in SOME aspects of lesbian dating, but that won't mean her role maps onto the male hetero role in all respects. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 02:38 AM |
| – | Women’s dating preferences are creating a system of vast inequality in datingWomen being MORE selective is natural. How much more, and by what criteria, remain open questions. It's actually better for women if dating is more equal, but it has to be equal in the right ways. Women need to be sufficiently attracted to their partners. So TOO equal would probably be bad. That said, women can also get captured by social trends that inflate selectivity in unneeded areas. Being selective such that your male mate is reliable, healthy, productive, etc. are good things. But not bei… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 02:10 AM |
| 1 | Women’s dating preferences are creating a system of vast inequality in datingSure, overall it is good context. But in sexuality, comparing us to other species has to be done carefully. The brain size increase that made us sentient, and the way this meant that human babies come out undercooked needing tons of parental care, are huge differences that impact many things and should not be underestimated. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/03/24 02:06 AM |
| 2 | Women’s dating preferences are creating a system of vast inequality in datingYes, and the competitive landscape is different due to technology. That said, the fundamental constraint remains that we must remain competitive whatever changes to the mating system we allow. Unclear whether more female economic independence will allow women to manifest degrees of sexual selectivity that will push this ultimate constraint or not. Some types of increased selectivity may be in women's personal interests, but some definitely are not. Have to see if women can lean into the first an… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/03/24 11:15 PM |
| 1 | Women’s dating preferences are creating a system of vast inequality in datingSure. And even under the enforced monogamy regime, things still basically worked this way. But it's all about the degree of selectivity women manifest and how much male sexual competition is kept constrained. Humans are pretty unique animals, so it can be dangerous to compare ourselves to other species. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/03/24 10:57 PM |
| 7 | Women’s dating preferences are creating a system of vast inequality in datingI wouldnt say that is exactly true. Rather, various social systems competed. Widespread enforced monogamy outcompeted other mating systems. Top men also gave up polygamy. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/03/24 10:53 PM |
| – | Women’s dating preferences are creating a system of vast inequality in datingIt's not clear what is actually happening on the ground now, overall. You can cherry pick fucked up demographics and regions, but what does the actual big picture look like? How much has it really changed? That said, small changes and trends on the margins of a Sexual Marketplace do tend to have an outsized impact on the attitudes of all participants. That said, even if the OP is right and things have changed dramatically, can we say the past was the natural standard? Maybe women could say that … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/03/24 10:49 PM |
| 2 | She has to like you moreThis is the typical ideal, though it is as much or more about female hypergamy and the desire to 'look up to my man' than it is women's greater need for emotional drama. But that said, like a truly hypergamous union, this is just the typical ideal. Not only do individuals vary greatly, but even 'typical' couples for which this would be the ideal cannot always find this kind of match. Nevertheless, couples find their way to happiness all the time when they are not in an 'ideal' relationship. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/03/24 01:51 PM |
| 1 | How would you describe “lady game”?Maybe. But women are not usually breaking out lady game on most men. Still, yes, women need to know their target audience. Some guys who are very successful with women and have a lot of options do get bored. They do like the chase, and so on. But a lot of guys do not. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 06:28 PM |
| 0 | Female Attraction StandardsI don't expect fair. But maybe it isn't unfair, either. Women do have higher reproductive costs. If we invoke fairness, there should be some compensation for that. Hypergamy of some kind is the compensation. In the 'fairness' vein, the question would be whether modern's women's hypergamy is well calibrated to what extra reproductive costs women face. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 05:32 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsI guess the counter is, what about those painfully average and uninteresting girls? Are they not the natural matches for the painfully average and uninteresting guys? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 05:12 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsI actually do not believe in looking at history as the story of men oppressing women. It is far more complex than that. But I don't really follow what you are trying to add to the discussion on female sexual selectivity here. I have no secret message I'm dying to say but feel too afraid to share. I'm just in exploration mode on this question, as it seems to be one that is very pertinent to our near future. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 05:10 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThere are exes and there are exes. Yes if it wasn't too serious; no if it was a big deal, unless you get the green light from him. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 04:54 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadDepends. If you are thinking too much about 'objective' things in your individual dating life, you are doing it wrong. If you are weighing 'objective' factors when discussing population-level gender dynamics, you are doing it right. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:30 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsYeah, if female attraction standards are such that whatever the culture, so long as women don't have to trade sex for anything else, less than 20% of men will be considered sufficiently attractive that sex with them is not repulsive, then we gotta deal with that. I'm an old guy with no dog in this fight. I just wanna get as close to the truth as I can because I'm curious. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:09 PM |
| 0 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadGuess Molly might have to wait then. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 11:41 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsMaybe not the best wording. But I meant standards that are higher or different than what biology itself dictates. Of course, we could then discuss which of those standards serve women's interests and which don't. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 11:39 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadOnce you don't want anything, you will have everything you want! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 10:53 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsSetting aside specifics as to what may or may not have happened to attraction standards, it does baffle me how anyone can think they are entirely (or almost entirely) genetic. This is true for males and females, though the literature suggests female sexuality is even more influenced by environment and culture than male sexuality, which is less complex and more robust. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 10:36 AM |
| 0 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadAcquire lots of Molly and go clubbing. Can take classes if you want or need later. But first learn how to become one with the beat. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 10:33 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsI cannot fully agree with that characterization of history, but I do agree that one way or another women have become or had to become more traditionally masculine. And nobody wants to become more traditionally feminine. So this does throw another layer of complexity in to determining how sexually selective women are innately. But I personally do think that the traditional feminine needs more protecting and honoring. Deep down, women do want this. They want to be more like their nature, but also … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 06:43 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsYes, one issues is that women seem a lot better at being co-husbands than even motivated and well meaning men are at being co-wives. There is a distinct possibility that women are outperforming men now because they have innate advantages in the modern environment. So if you layer that a woman is somehow innately superior in performance to her mate value rank equivalent on top of her being innately more sexually selective, the ultimate perceived selectivity gets even higher. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 06:27 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsThere's no perfect science here. Only best guesses and the like. But I do not think female sexuality has been immune to the digital revolution any more than male. So yeah, I do think that being exposed to countless images of 'perfect' people has likely increased what it takes to be considered attractive by a woman. Online dating has had an impact. Social media and a culture that accords status to looks in a way it didn't before. Porn has distorted male sexuality, too. Of course it has. Sure, wit… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 06:23 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsYou need numbers to put the big picture into any kind of context. Even if you use them roughly. I'm not saying people do or should use them to guide individual dating decisions. So yeah, in the big picture, a lot of guys have a prior belief that women IN GENERAL and ON AVERAGE should be attracted to a guy who ranks the same among men that she ranks among women, in attractiveness. There are all sorts of possible issues with this belief, including maybe 'just world' fallacy, I am not distancing my… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 03:19 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsI think the obesity epidemic complicates things. A lot of people assume that just because the genders are equally obese that this somehow cancels out. But two fat people may just not want to pair up and may find the idea of sex with one another gross, even if they know each is equally (un)attractive. But there may be some gender variance here as the male libido may still make him want to do it, but she just can't. But if both lost weight, she could. It is also possible that soft fatness dispropo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 03:10 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsFair enough. Kinda mousetopia stuff. But there might be some shortcuts if attraction standards are fairly plastic and your first priority is a high pairing rate. You might be able to more focus on that than just general well being. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 02:34 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsYeah, well in this formation of the argument, I guess the baseline would be the ERA (Environment of Evolutionary Adaptedness) which is mostly the stone age. Most of our evolved instincts are adapted primarily to that time. But of course, using that as 'normal' is not without problems, either. Of course, if you take this common argument more literally, then the environment doesnt matter much here. The baseline is just what is biological. It has always been the same. In this argument, the actual s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 02:32 AM |
| 3 | Female Attraction StandardsWell, to be clear, what we are positing is something like a 50th rank woman has similar raw attractiveness to men that a 70th rank man does, or something like that. Now, the idea that women are objectively more attractive is another point. No consensus on that in the literature, but it is possible. Women do have objectively more reproductive value, as well, as wombs are scarce but sperm is plentiful and cheap. Don't want to argue about the definition of 'eugenic' but the point of sexual selectio… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 02:27 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsWe have enough data that most scientists posit the stone age as the era whose environment is most aligned with our evolved instincts. Most of those ideas seem like ones to improve overall psychic well being rather than aimed specifically at making the genders as widely attractive to one another as possible, or reducing female sexual selectivity so as to facilitate widespread monogamy with a high pairing rate. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 02:18 AM |
| 4 | How do you feel about the fact that women are encouraged to do things in relationships that men aren't?Well, this goes well beyond the scope of the thread. But I don't think that is how humans and healthy societies work. That is too much of the modern West's extreme individualism. Now, the strictness of society's standards, how cruelly they are enforced, how much shame, etc. are all open questions. But I don't think it is a matter of 'you do you and I will do me'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 02:13 AM |
| 6 | How do you feel about the fact that women are encouraged to do things in relationships that men aren't?Yeah, so I think we have interestingly discovered that in some circles, people have managed to flip the double standard. But I agree that male promiscuity is generally treated better than female. There is some biological basis for this, but the general attitudes go way beyond that. I don't think either gender benefits from spinning plates generally. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 02:08 AM |
| 0 | Female Attraction StandardsThis would never be perfect, but it's not impossible to solve. For one, we could posit the Environment of Evolutionary Adaptedness (primarily the stone age) as the norm and work from there. Or we could take a more goal-oriented and less normative approach. We still ideally want to pair up as many adults in good relationships as possible, and exclude as few as possible. Thus, any flexible influence that moves us in the other direction is the influence we want to undo. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 02:02 AM |
| 6 | Female Attraction StandardsGotcha. So what is 'natural' is for women to mate pretty far up in relative mate value rank, but that is actually their objective desirability equal. That means a lot more men are naturally excluded, and to make the math work, some women share some men in some way. Now, setting aside whether this is truly about objective attractiveness, or more about attractiveness to the other gender, this is pretty much what it means for women to be more sexually selective. And this is how sexual selection exe… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:59 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsYeah, I get the math. 1-4 points each, add them up. But I'm on a desktop and it wont do any of that for me. Wont let me download to open in excel, either. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:52 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsHmm I have seen that channel before. It is funny. It's social science, so I take everything with a pound or ten of salt. But yeah, women ranking so many men below average makes me question if they understand what 'average' is, or whether this question somehow got conflated with 'is he attractive TO ME' in women's minds. Maybe they somehow translated 'average' to 'at least some small bit of sexual attractiveness TO ME'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:48 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsAh. Ok. I get that objection. It's kinda like saying "Men work harder to do the splits; women work harder to lift a 100 pound weight. But neither is relevant to total life difficulty because these are just one of life's many options and nobody forces you to do either." I dont see sex and mating as THAT optional. Not in the big picture. So how much effort one gender has to put in to mate and create a family and so on definitely adds to that gender's total life difficulty score. The advantages cal… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:42 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsI Have never heard that women rate men they know the same way men rate women. Interesting. Where did you get that from? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:33 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsNo. I hear you. I am not Blackpill or even close. What women are attracted to is an ongoing field of study for me, and I have an open mind. But here I'm more thinking about that, whatever those qualities are, what kinds of pairing rates should we expect in the future? How selective are women, whatever it is they are selecting for? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:28 AM |
| 4 | Female Attraction StandardsThe former. The latter is an interesting idea. I guess if you do assume culture and environment do significantly impact standards, then you are left with the question of what is the 'baseline' or standard environmental influence you want to posit as 'normal' or neutral with respect to the biology. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:21 AM |
| 4 | Female Attraction StandardsI'm not sure what you are getting at, because the math here doesn't work. If what we are saying is true, then there wouldn't really be any issue. The 50th ranked in mate value woman would be attracted to the 50th ranked man--it's just that what man occupied that rank may be different than some men think he is. Or are you saying that women as a whole are more attractive overall, and thus that 50th rank woman is objectively more beautiful, and overall more valuable sexually and sexually attractive… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:17 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsBut I do not follow what you are disagreeing with. Are you saying that it doesn't matter if one gender has to work way harder at life to reproduce? Are you saying that it could never get to a point where one gender would obviously have life harder to reproduce? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:12 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsBut what do we mean by a minority of men getting pussy? Like regular casual? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:06 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsRight. She still has more raw SMV than the HB6 guy likely. But her SMV rank is well below his. Now, how much SMV rank matters depends on one's beliefs with respect to how much people want one monogamous partner, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:05 AM |
| -1 | Female Attraction StandardsAlso, given innate differences in nature, including sexual selectivity and hypergamy, and men's more flexible attraction floor, this kind of digital exposure probably has a different impact on each gender. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 01:03 AM |
| -1 | Female Attraction StandardsI'm not asserting anyone has it harder at life now or in the past. What I am saying is that in a sustainable future where gender roles are minimized and things are very egalitarian, you cannot really have one gender need to work a lot harder at life than the other. And yes, it would be difficult to calculate, even with relative genderlessness. Women still get pregnant, etc. That all goes into the equation. All I am saying is that one constraint would be that you do not somehow have intense male … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:54 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsWhether women have become objectively more attractive than men overall is by no means an accepted belief in the relevant fields, though it is considered and debated. But if we go back to prehistory, when we did much of our evolving as humans, I'm trying to make the math work. If men and women were equally attractive and selective then, then there would be little sexual selection pressure on attractiveness. Everyone would pair up with their mate value equal. So even then, at some point some large… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:51 AM |
| 4 | Female Attraction StandardsSure. Wifed up. LTRed. Being first bitch. Whatever. The point is that you think that women being able to sleep with men above their league, even if they cannot land such men (if they wanted to) or are their first choice does impact women's willingness to settle for men closer to their SMV rank? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:45 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsSorry. I don't follow the logic here. I'm just saying that we do not know if, on an innate basis, it is normal for women to find men of the same SMV rank attractive. I mean we KNOW it is literally not, because that is what it means for women to have greater sexual selectivity. ANd we know they do. But the question is how high? How much is innate? How much is cultural? So I'm not doubting any women who say they don't find such and such men attractive right now. But that doesn't mean this is all i… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:42 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsIf you see me suggesting some binary, then I have been unclear in some way. I am the nuance guy. Always about continuums and not binaries. To the extent it tends to annoy lol Nothing is ever perfectly equal. So sure, if things turn around and it is men spending more money, time and effort than women to be sexually attractive to the other gender, that is fine. But only so long as it is not massively more and overall effort in life is relatively equal between the genders. But it cannot become this… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:27 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsI agree that this female standards question can be viewed individually, and at a population level. Both are valid. And this thread is open to opinions on any of that. So I was too hasty to say we are just doing one thing. So sure, if you only care about individual level stuff, why would a woman listen to any of this if she is doing OK? If she is not, and maybe cannot land the only men she is attracted to, then the topic might interest her, but in a very different way than if we are looking at so… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:14 AM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsMaybe, but even if good looks are the most important factor, there's a big difference between it say being 51% of that equation and 99%. Charisma. Behavior. Dominance. Competence. Etc. all contribute, and appeal to instincts in women evolved when they did need men and that will still apply to a great degree even if they do not need men. I cannot count the number of female friends who have aborted a bar hookup in mid-flight when the guy did or said something that rubbed them the wrong way, even w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/03/24 12:01 AM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsI agree that you avoid numbers in relationship building. But what we are doing right now is speculating about future population-level trends. In doing such, it is not an oxymoron to use numbers very roughly if you are all aware you are doing so. Like when some people assert that unfettered female sexual selectivity will lead to skyrocketing rates of male sexual exclusion, it is totally fair game (and needed) to ask if they mean something closer to say a 20% incel rate or a 70% incel rate. These … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:58 PM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsBut then, do you think that if we want high hetero pairing rates and low 'incel' rates, men would actually have to work harder at life and mate acquisition/retention than women? Does your belief about Average Joe's potential still hold true if he matches female effort in these areas, but is taught to work 'smarter not harder', i.e. to focus efforts on what women really want most? I'm not sure how sustainable it would be, in a relatively genderless and egalitarian society, to let greater female s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:51 PM |
| 4 | Female Attraction StandardsWell, in terms of analyzing population-level dynamics, you cannot avoid using numbers. You have to use them carefully, and understand when they are--like now--being used incredibly roughly. But there is no real avoiding them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:47 PM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsI strive for objectivity and truth. I do not know if I believe this, but this is the strongest form of this argument and should be put properly to be considered. So if men did properly adapt, how selective would you say women would be in the future? Even if men were no less attractive than in the past and were as supportive of egalitarian relationships as possible, should we really expect say a 50th percentile mate value woman to be sufficiently attracted to a 50th percentile male to want to pai… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:45 PM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsBY these women having a better shot, you mean being able to get sex from them, not necessarily be wifed up, right? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:40 PM |
| 1 | Feminism encourages women to never take accountability for their poor decisions when it comes to choosing incorrectlySo given that duty sex is kinda out, both because women don't want to do it and because men know more about it and are demanding it stop, then maybe this will further decrease pairing rates. How high in male mate rank does this 50th rank woman have to go before the sex is at least somewhat enthusiastic? 70th? I mean we are starting to get into numbers that suggest long term, sustained 'incel' (or close enough) rates of 20-40% would be natural for totally free women free from male coercion. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:38 PM |
| 3 | Female Attraction StandardsI absolutely agree with you that the way that 'need' can translate into actual sexual desirability is totally underappreciated here. It complicates this idea that in the past women almost always had no desire for their husbands. Those numbers are not really indicative. The 6,000 BC male reproduction bottleneck is not fully understood, but leading theories suggest it has little to do with female sexual selectivity and rather a very unique and brutal period in history. As for the 40% through histo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:35 PM |
| 3 | Female Attraction StandardsLooks alone do not dictate desirability, even if it were some sort of sci-fi Star Trek environment where there were zero material or safety or childcare needs for anyone. But I take it you mean factoring in whatever creates sufficient desire in conditions trending towards these, maybe 40% of men are desirable enough to motivate a woman to pair, especially as men are taking obvious duty sex and fakery off the table. Men will expect regualr, enthusiastic sex from their partner. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:25 PM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsSo for long term pairings, even when women don't need men and there are less children needed and so on, you still don't think women will turn out to be THAT selective? High pairing rates can be expected, even if there is an expectation that--even if you have to wait for it--there will be regular and enthusiastic sex inside the relationship? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:22 PM |
| 0 | Female Attraction StandardsBut then, assuming we undid any possible artificial inflation of standards and selectivity, if any, how innately selective should we expect modern women to be? This would be in an environment where they have less and less material or safety need for a man. Where we have less kids. etc. Like some people think that maybe a 70th percentile mate rank man might be the natural match for a 50th mate rank woman, and thus we should start to expect incel rates of 20-40% over time because that is just how … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:20 PM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsSo how selective would women be if we somehow undid that? But it would still be an environment where women do not NEED a man the way they once did. Would it be normal for 50th percentile mate rank women to find 50th percentile mate rank men suffciently attractive to want to pair with and have enthusiastic sex? Or is it more like 60th percentile men? or 70th? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:17 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsOFC women should have a realistic expectation of what they can land and where they stand. But that is not the same as 'realistic standards'. It could be that if you fully enlighten a low SMV woman, she would just say "OK. I'm not better than any of these guys I can land. I don't deserve more. But I'm just not attracted enough to any of them that sex wouldn't be gross for me. So I'd rather go it alone.' You are operating under the assumption that if you remove undo cultural inflation of standards… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:15 PM |
| – | Female Attraction StandardsSo the corollary would be that in the past, for the good of the 'tribe', women always made a much greater erotic sacrifice. Men perhaps balanced this out with sacrifices in other areas. Now they cannot. Our attraction standards do scale to our own self-perceived attractiveness rank, but this scaling is by no means perfect. So there could be many women who, even if fully enlightened and understanding of their own attractiveness, simply do not find the men they can land sufficiently desirable that… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:11 PM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsOthers argue that they in no way changed women's nature. Rather, they simply demanded that women make a much greater erotic sacrifice for the overall health and competitiveness of society. Meanwhile, maybe men made greater sacrifices in other areas. But many would argue none of this means that women 200 years ago were generally attracted to the husbands they basically had to marry. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:00 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsThese are the questions to ask. We need to use numbers, very roughly, to guide and ground the discussion. But of course the numbers will ultimately be extremely crude. And we will have to make our best guess--we won't be able to prove anything like in math. So yeah, it is an imperfect discussion. But what else can you do? It is the real question at hand, even if there is no way to answer it at all perfectly. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:58 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsYes, all sane people understand women are more innately sexually selective than men on a biology basis, whatever the culture or environment. But the devil is in the details. HOW selective are women if they do not need men? Should we expect a 50th percentile rank woman in mate value to be attracted to a 50th to 60th rank male, even if her raw SMV is higher and he is naturally more desirous of her? But is she likely to be desirous enough to not only pair with him (which involves many consideration… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:56 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsI think we understand that. Rather, the question is one of details. How selective are women innately, even if you get the culture as right as you can? Like is it natural for a 50th percentile mate value rank woman to actually want sex with the roughly equivalent mate value rank man she can land in an enforced monogamy world, even if her raw SMV is of course higher. Or at this middle level of the SMP, are women likely to pair primarily for other reasons, but actual desire for sex will be somewhat… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:53 PM |
| 3 | Feminism encourages women to never take accountability for their poor decisions when it comes to choosing incorrectlySo if we had the culture and environment right, how innately selective do you think women are? I mean that is the underlying question, ultimately. If women don't need a man, is it natural to think that in the right culture a 50th percentile mate value woman would want to pair with a 55th percentile man, and be enthusiastic about having sex with him? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:49 PM |
| 3 | Female Attraction StandardsLeaving aside the issue of conflicts with individual freedom and a liberal democratic society for now, if there were no social media. No dating apps. We didn't plaster digital images of perfect bodies everywhere. Sexuality was more constrained. Etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:47 PM |
| 3 | Female Attraction StandardsSo assuming we did the culture and environment right, would it still be sort of unnatural for a 50th percentile mate value woman to really be attracted to a 50th -55th percentile man? She might be willing to pair with him because he is the best she can get, but men in such situations should not expect a constant supply of enthusiastic sex. That is reserved for higher mate value women who can land high mate value men whom they actually find very desirable? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:45 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsSure, but then think this through. Does this mean that women and men have basically the same levels of innate selectivity and average men and women feel the same way about such pairings? Or are the women in such relationships choosing them primarily for other reasons, and are significantly less physically attracted to their partner than the other way around. Or than high mate value women are to their high mate value male partners? And if this is true, should men in such pairings thus temper thei… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:43 PM |
| 4 | Female Attraction StandardsSo you are assuming relatively symmetrical biologies when it comes to this. Perhaps women 'ended up' with men of roughly equal mate value rank because of enforced monogamy and the more attractive men being taken by more attractive women. And women paired up rather than remained single for reasons other than actual attraction. Thus, men in such pairing should have realistic expectations about the sex lives possible in such relationships. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:40 PM |
| 2 | Female Attraction StandardsYes, in the sense that the absolute threshold where sex is a negative is much lower and more flexible for men. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:34 PM |
| 1 | Female Attraction StandardsBut these arguments are not only made at the individual level, but also at the population level. For example, if social media is inflating women's standards, maybe we could do something about that. Or porn, for men. ANd so on. It isn't just arguing that an individual man or woman should be able to slough off all cultural and environmental influences simply by thinking and realizing that he or she cannot land what they can get. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:33 PM |
| 0 | Female Attraction StandardsMany argue that female selectivity is high on an innate level. The widespread, enforced monogamy regime didn't make average men more attractive to average women. It was male sexual socialism at women's expense. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:30 PM |
| 0 | Female Attraction StandardsI disagree. Most who think women have unreasonable standards have the prior assumption that women should be attracted to men of roughly similar mate value rank, but no longer are, on average. So they agree with you about women's innate levels of selectivity, but disagree with you about what is happening on the ground. And thus feel female selectivity has been inflated past what biology demands it be. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:28 PM |
| 4 | Female Attraction StandardsBut it strikes me that, again, to prove my point, you are working off the unstated assumption (like many men do) that it is actually natural for women to find men of roughly the same SMV rank attractive, i.e. a woman who ranks at the 50th percentile among women in mate value should find a man who ranks 50th to 60th sufficiently attractive to desire sex with him. If not, something is wrong with the culture or environment. But others believe that women are and always have been innately way more se… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:25 PM |
| 0 | Female Attraction StandardsWell, lowering standards doesn't need to mean that someone believes we can do so individually, just by thinking it, as easily as you turn down the volume on your TV set. But if there is a cultural and environmental component to what we find attractive, then in theory that could be manipulated such that people could truly find someone attractive when they did not before. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:21 PM |
| 3 | Female Attraction StandardsThis is a clear example of what I mean. Your unstated assumption is that what people find attractive is primarily set by biology, or perhaps a mix of biology and environmental factors so complex we cannot really manipulate them. So they had might has well be innate. Others think differently, and thus lower your standards can mean finding ways to actually find the people you can land TRULY attractive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:18 PM |
| 8 | Feminism encourages women to never take accountability for their poor decisions when it comes to choosing incorrectlySo is it your opinion that if few men are attractive to women today, this is primarily just women's innate biology finally free to manifest itself. These standards are not artificially inflated by modern culture and technology--they are just how women have always been. It is some combination of women being naturally quite picky combined with men being naturally less attractive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 09:28 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadMaybe. But it didn't happen before. I guess this is an Internet driven thing. Perhaps it will evolve into instinct over the next ten thousand years. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 08:57 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThat seems to be a weird thing to be an explicit consideration. Most of those 'sexy sons' hypothesis-like stuff posits that these are implicit, evolved instincts. Not things one actively thinks about much. Or has the Internet so revealed the trauma of short men that all men are traumatized, even for possible progeny? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 08:33 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIs men caring about a woman's height some new thing? I'm not talking about her being too tall, or taller than him. I mean thinking things like 'She's hot, but I wish she were 5'6" instead of 5'2". In China, I hear men express height preferences like that. I never once heard that growing up. So I wonder if this is a Chinese thing, a wordlwide new thing, or maybe it was always there and just not a part of my rather sheltered upbringing. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 08:29 PM |
| 1 | Would you give an attractive ex-pornstar a shot if she quit porn and was aggressively pursuing you?Well, assume you have to sincerely date her for possible marriage and family, not just to fuck. In theory, I could do it. But it just seems like all those porn vids are gonna come back to make the childhood of any children we might have a nightmare. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 08:21 PM |
| 2 | Do Any of You WANT An Arranged Marriage? Why? Who Should Arrange it?Usually, institutions exist in an interdependent ecosystem. I'm not sure how you can restore arranged marriage without restoring the family, and so on. At any rate, what 'arranged' means is pretty plastic. Nobody here wants to be forced to marry someone with no veto power. But softer versions of arranged marriage, where the principals do have effective veto power and are active participants in the process, are not necessarily bad and could be quite good. Again, depends on the culture and institu… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 07:43 PM |
| 0 | Are more and more women choosing to stay single into their 30s?I dunno. The extent to which men contribute to relationships is an open question here. Too many women go with the anecdotal evidence with excessive certainty. But there is a lot of it. However, the more comprehensive studies seem to indicate that, especially with the current younger generations, married men and women actually do contribute roughly the same hours per week to the relationship. OFC there is the 'mental load' or 'CEO of the Household' point that is really hard to prove or disprove b… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 01:04 PM |
| 2 | A thought experiment for menThese are all legitimate aspects of the possible problem. I don't think any are necessarily unsolvable, though. Not in a 'close enough' functional sense. And everyone has a stake. If the incel rate goes too high, it is bad for men and women alike. Women also want partners, and I have known more than a few women who really thought highly of a guy, wanted to be with him, and just couldn't find him sexually desirable enough. If they could, their life would have been better. The obesity epidemic is … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 11:54 AM |
| 1 | This sub is basically a place for men to come and vent and argue about their frustrations about dating. Where are all of the women with bad takes?haha fair enough. OFC once in a relationship, you would have a responsibility to work with a partner to make sure everyone's needs are taken care of and everyone understands one another. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 10:02 AM |
| 6 | Are more and more women choosing to stay single into their 30s?Obviously, less survival need for marriage combined with a culture that no longer pushes marriage nearly as hard is likely to result in lower marriage rates for both genders. As to the phenomenon described by the OP of not enough attractive men to go around, this--including the all-important details--are the great open question of gender dynamics. It is a known biological fact that left to their own preferences women (like the females of most species) will be more sexually selective. They have h… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 09:56 AM |
| 1 | A thought experiment for menI filter all the idiots pretty relentlessly here. So let's just ignore them. But the best form of the argument isn't asking women to ignore attraction; nor is it necessarily saying their standards aren't valid. It is saying that we have a common 'problem'. Society works best when people pair widely for family creation. In fact, most people's lives are infinitely better--man or woman--IF they can successfully pair with a partner they find sufficiently attractive. So, if (and it's a big if) women'… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 09:54 AM |
| 1 | This sub is basically a place for men to come and vent and argue about their frustrations about dating. Where are all of the women with bad takes?Strictly and literally speaking, there basically is no unconditional love. And hookups can mean many things. And yes, due to greater female sexual selectivity and innate reproductive value, combined with greater male variability, there has always been a much larger group of bottom tier men who are unfuckable/unmarrigiable than of women. This is known. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 07:02 AM |
| 2 | This sub is basically a place for men to come and vent and argue about their frustrations about dating. Where are all of the women with bad takes?Well it can mean that. It can also mean you were very desirable. The real issue is that men want some source code they can use to perfectly predict women. No such thing. People are too complex. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 07:01 AM |
| 2 | A thought experiment for menI don't know if my stance on this ever changed. I think this is the big open question in gender dynamics: How innately sexually selective are women as their material need for men trends towards zero? How much actual change in selectivity have we seen? If there has been a significant rise, how much is culturally and environmentally induced? Can any artificial inflation be undone, particularly without undoing key features of liberal democracy? I don't think we know any of it. It is funny, though, … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/03/24 03:08 AM |
| 5 | A thought experiment for menSorry. I am slow sometimes. But I do not follow what your hypothesis is here. Like big picture. Do you think 50th percentile men and women are attracted to one another? What do you mean 'average guys are ugly'. Like they always have been? Is there something going on right now making them ugly? Is there any difference between how a 50th percentile woman is likely to feel about a 50th percentile guy and vice versa? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 11:03 PM |
| 2 | A thought experiment for menThe problem is that 'unattractive' and 'never truly attracted to them' are somewhat underdefined. If we are using the female approach, these terms tend to mean that you do not want sex with them for its own value. If you could have everything else from that person, and not breed resentment, you'd skip sex with them over having it. This bar is set pretty fucking low for men. It is there, but it is low. That said, there is also a competitive aspect. She may be attractive enough that you would choo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 10:15 PM |
| 15 | A thought experiment for menThere is profound disagreement about 'the facts on the ground' before we even get to arguments over hypotheses to explain said facts. But in general, what most men want here, is NOT for women to date men they find unattractive. No guy wants to be that guy. Rather, men want a society where women are truly attracted to their rough SMV rank equivalent. Some allowance has to be made for greater female reproductive costs and greater male variability (meaning there really will be a lot more truly unfu… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 10:09 PM |
| 20 | A thought experiment for menMale and female sexual attraction floors are quite different. But yes, assuming we just accept the OP's statement that you feel NO sexual desire for them, then no, you don't date any of them. OFC the whole point in what men are saying about female sexual standards is that they are artificially inflated. They aren't asking women to date men they find unattractive. They are saying that if we somehow straighten things out, then women will truly find a lot more guys attractive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 10:03 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadSure. But as long as those humans outcompete others materially, it really doesnt matter how shitty their lives are. Of course, if they rebel, that impacts productivity and means life was TOO shitty or not enough central control. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 08:54 PM |
| 2 | Redpill is very difficult for vast majority of women, it's heartless and cruelAt this point, Youtube provides solid direct access to the kinds of scholars who do Evo Psych, sexuality studies, and the like. They are by no means perfect, but you can skip the TRP middle man, with all the toxicity bundled there. You can understand the basic instincts at play, which is a solid start. But we are the only sentient creatures. Instincts only go so far. It is very hard to isolate nature from nurture. So if you understand the nature, it's on you to add in what nurture might do, and … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 08:49 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadOn men displaying inappropriate sexual signalling to minors, maybe I am a bit pessimistic. Seems to me you approach some limit in terms of how much good behavior you can expect from men in an open and free society where the genders mix this freely. I dunno. I guess the question is whether we are near that limit now and kinda have to live with it short of radical change, where the cure may be worse than the disease. Or is there still a lot of improvement we can make without undermining Liberal En… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 08:40 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadAnd they make your legs look nice while sticking out your ass and tits. But men do like them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 08:13 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadHeels are like women's worst self-inflicted wound. Why do they do damage to their own bodies like that? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 05:57 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWhat do you mean by 'more plastic'? Subject to individual variation? On the part of the male or the female? Subject to cultural influence? I personally do think the overall range is going to be large. Maybe 16-22, but possibly 14-24. And that there is a great deal of individual variation, both in terms of the males and females. I also think that you can never entirely divorce nature from nurture. But shaming and such doesn't seem to change much in terms of men's true feelings. But things like wh… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 05:53 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYeah, well many would argue that reciprocated simping is not simping. It is something else. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 03:15 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadYou are nuts. I don't start these conversations or have a particular interest in them. But if we are going to talk about these things, we should be truthful. The best way to get men to leave young girls alone isn't to tell average guys that their natural feelings are abnormal and unnatural. It is to tell them these are normal feelings every guy has, but that we all have to suppress because that is the right thing to do. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 03:05 PM |
| 3 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWomen (maybe men too, in their way) have a threshold system. If you do not meet the minimum requirements in one key criteria, it is very hard to compensate by outperformance in other areas. Very attractive women are going to get men who exceed minimum looks criteria easily. And there are diminishing returns. So yeah, it will seem like the supermodel cares less about looks than the average girl--until a 5/10 guy in looks tries to date her. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 02:59 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadDoes it make a man less or more attractive to you? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 02:56 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThere's a lot of individual variance, as well as some demographic variance. But PURELY physically, then, maybe. 18 is sort of an imaginary line, scientifically. But results would be on one side or another of 18--probably trending more towards lower the more we could test true, innate instincts unclouded by social construction. And you'd have to equalize other social factors, such as women in their 20s often taking better care of themselves or dressing better, etc. But that doesn't mean peak age … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 02:40 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadTrue. But that is a lot closer to the fundamental prehistoric equation our instincts are based off of than modern day reality. At least in the rich West. It's pretty rare that the violence he is doing to you is less than the violence that would happen to you if he were not in the picture. We aren't living in ISIS territory. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 02:26 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIf you gonna be that much fun, no problem! Done. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 02:21 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadHalfsies? You get the dress and I get the girl without it? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 02:18 PM |
| 5 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThis just begs the question of why we set a (somewhat arbitrary) legal age in the first place? In general, I do think there is something wrong about say a 40-year old man only thinking about and aiming at bedding 20-year old women. This behavior is usually bad for the man and the women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 02:17 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWell, why wouldn't age of peak female attractiveness--on a instinctual basis--be calibrated to stone age conditions and female fertility? Makes sense. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 02:13 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThe studies about age of peak physical female attractiveness to men often self-censor a bit and reign things in on the low end. Again, we are just talking about physical attraction--not that men should in any way act on this. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 02:11 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadFair enough. These women go too far. But just as I want women to empathize with male biology, I think men need to empathize with female biology. They are programmed to be attracted to aggressive men who they can then, in theory, tame in such a way that these men are aggressive to everyone else but protect her and her children. Obviously, in 2024, this creates complications. But it is what it is. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 02:07 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt's natural to be attracted to such young women. Maybe younger. Doesn't mean it is right to lean into that attraction rather than try to suppress it. So yeah, after such a long time of men not controlling themselves, I guess women decided to try shaming men for the basic instinct. It's wrong, but I guess they figured they'd give that a try since the other way didn't work. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 02:03 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat Megathreadwhat do you mean by 'actively violent'? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 01:57 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI personally don't feel that most Reddit conversations need to be so formal, with everyone staying precisely in the lane of the OP, etc. Feel free to go beyond the purely descriptive if you want, but address the descriptive first if that is what the thread is about. And most importantly, don't let your fears about what 'admitting' to any facts will result in cloud and distort your objective analysis of what 'is'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 01:54 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWe are at the progressives vs. conservatives impasse, I suppose. At the same time, with respect to female sexual behavior, things are a bit more complex. While I do not want the fear of sexual assault to the the factor that reigns in female sexuality, there are lots of other good reasons why women shouldn't be allowed or encouraged to just do whatever they want with their sexuality. Men as well, of course. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 01:51 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadFair enough. If that is the situation, then yeah, stick to the facts. At the same time, the women here are at least as guilty--and likely a lot more so--of being unable to stick to just the descriptive facts. They usually have one eye on how men might use these facts to fuck over women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 01:45 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadOnly to a point. We also have to be aware of the limits of education, human nature, and so on. We aren't going to get to a place of perfect female sexual safety no matter the behavior, much less perfect female sexual comfort even if safe. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 01:44 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadBut 'human resources' have no meaning unless you put them in some context. And over time, what matters for survival, is material productivity and innovation. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 01:35 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI do think women believe they are superior in these respects. And maybe they are. 'Morally' is more complex because most women also understand it is easier for them to avoid these things due to a different biology. That said, not clear how far that goes in most women's minds. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 01:33 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI get it. And I don't want to be all Yin/Yang spiritual woo woo about hard facts and realities. But at the same time, it still seems something is missing from the modern discussion about womanhood, pregnancy, child raising, motherhood, and so on. Some other side of the coin. But maybe humans just respond to incentives. There is no glory or status given to mothers now. Just to money and power. And we all experience hedonistic (and thus addictive and tempting) delights that 99% of our ancestors co… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 01:30 PM |
| 3 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadExactly. The reality is that you will never be able so completely tame male sexuality that women can have access to it on precisely the terms women want, and only those terms. In fact, if you did so tame men in aggregate, women probably would have trouble finding any men attractive even if spared the abuses of the worst men. Yes. Ideally, a woman should be able to wear nothing but a thong and her boots to a party, get crazy drunk, makeout with whomever she wants, and never fear for her safety in… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 01:20 PM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI'm not a fan of the 'blame capitalism' type answers because even capitalism is downstream of the ultimate constraint: geopolitical competition. No matter how well and healthily your people live, if they are not as materially productive and innovative as their neighbors, eventually their neighbors will come a visiting. And they will have space tanks while you have slingshots. This is probably humanity's biggest and most intractable problem, especially because with technology, everyone is in your… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 01:15 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadThis whole 'don't blame the victim' thing got so deranged and beyond common sense that yeah, there is some backlash. And often in ways that are not ideal. But it really is possible to question the behavior without in any way exculpating the perpetrators. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 01:09 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI get how it was overly glorified and whitewashed at times. But now it just seems to have swung the other way. At a time when pregnancy is less dangerous, does less damage, and tends to happen less to a given woman than at any time in history, all we hear is how scared shitless women are of it. How much damage it can do. How horrible it is. To be fair, that may just be the modern mentality. As true of men as women, compared to our ancestors. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 01:02 PM |
| 3 | "Every woman is unique in their taste in men" no they aren'tI think that the underlying sentiment behind this kind of bullshit is that women don't really want men trying to statistically examine, categorize and eventually game what women find attractive on an aggregate level. I think many women feel that supposedly benign 'pure knowledge seeking' is usually in the service of some male agenda to control or constrain female sexuality and mate choice for male advantage. So when I hear things like 'everyone is different' or 'we all have our types', what I re… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 12:36 PM |
| 3 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI think that is very contextual. But in most marriages, I do believe you need to both be 'all in'. That means you pool everything. But you may also want some private accounts for convenience or the like. It is nice to buy each other things in a way that it doesn't look like you are buying it for yourself. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 12:23 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt's interesting that these days we see no innate advantages in female biology and their reproductive role, only costs. The closer bond between mother and child, at least initially, used to be something that was seen as a female gift. Nowadays, everything seems to be judged based on how effectively in contributes to the pursuit of individual wealth, power and hedonism. And I guess, by such standards, the female reproductive setup is pretty much all downside compared to the male. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 12:19 PM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt would be simpler if it were that simple. But it isn't. I have a high degree of skepticism about the social sciences. That said, over time and in aggregate, they often do get at truths. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 12:14 PM |
| 2 | Is it over for inexperienced men who didn't go to college?That is true. It does become a negative feedback loop, and at some point the lack of opportunity to practice and improve is also holding you back in addition to the underlying reason you didn't get such opportunities. But I do think there is too much focus on the latter point. If you were weird and ugly in HS and college, and never touched a woman. But then you get a great job and hit the gym, get some style, etc. you will probably do alright despite the lack of experience. Yes, you may have to … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 12:12 PM |
| 4 | Can we talk about the phenomenon of childless stepdads who are actually good?If the culture and environment is somehow jacking up women's standards past what they need to be on a biological basis, then you have to somehow undo the unneeded inflation first. You cannot just say that women whose standards have been inflated should mate with men they find unattractive. That would be traumatic. First, you have to find a way for those men to be sufficiently attractive to the women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 09:19 AM |
| 38 | Is it over for inexperienced men who didn't go to college?You have it backwards. It is not so much that the lack of experience hurts you. It is that a lack of experience is revealing something innately unattractive about you. So yeah, if you didn't go to college and are inexperienced at 22, maybe this is not necessarily as damning as there is a higher chance you somehow didn't have opportunities to meet women rather than you being innately unattractive. But at any rate, these are just rough heuristics. At the end of the day, you know if you are unattra… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 01:11 AM |
| 3 | Women constantly use how “dangerous” and high risk dating is for them as an excuse for their pickiness but then consistently select and return to abusive low lifesMaybe. But this also might be a natural defensive mechanism in reaction to men here constantly accusing women of this and that just because the women wanna fuck who they wanna fuck. Picky or not picky. Like sometimes that abusive guy may actually be the only guy who is sexually attractive enough to a woman to be an option. He is bad, but the least bad of all the actual options. Maybe women are innately super picky in terms of what they find arousing, based on instincts that evolved for another t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 12:29 AM |
| 1 | CMV: The game of waiting for sex hugely contributes to future dead bedroomsIt's also possible that the entire widespread monogamy regime we have lived under always involved a massive suppression of innate female sexuality and sexual selectivity. Thus, it is possible, that without open polygamy, the majority of women won't actually be able to partner and reproduce with a guy she has an overwhelming desire to have sex with. And maybe female collective wisdom understands this, so the advice to wait is to make sure that she is going to get the investment she wants for the … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 12:23 AM |
| 1 | If men’s carnal first choice is younger woman, would you expect older men to be women’s?The nuance is mostly about the fact that having some sexual attraction to something doesn't necessarily mean you would truly want to have sex with it. But OFC parents don't care about any of that. They just want to protect their kids, psychologically as well as physically. As you say, men most of all as that is sorta their traditional job in a way. As for actual thread topic, I do find it intriguing that peak female attractiveness may not in fact perfectly line up with either peak fertility or p… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/03/24 12:07 AM |
| 1 | If men’s carnal first choice is younger woman, would you expect older men to be women’s?If the point is just to say that regardless of what they are attracted to, men should control inappropriate sexual signaling, then yes. No need for nuance. No need to say much. I agree. But if you wanted to explore the reality of how normal adult sexuality (of both genders) interacts with pre-pubescent children, then that is a highly nuanced area where one has to use higher resolution definitions of sexuality and what it means. It is not fully unexplored territory in the psychological literature… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/03/24 11:53 PM |
| 2 | If men’s carnal first choice is younger woman, would you expect older men to be women’s?I see. I may have lost the plot on that one. But regardless, most men are not going to want to have sex with a pre-pubescent girl even if allowed. As for being somewhat sexually aroused by signs of puberty in girls that are in the process of going through puberty, that is normal. It is probably normal to even have some sexual attraction to attractive pre-pubescent females that show zero signs of sexual maturity. But that doesn't mean most men would actually want to have sex with them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/03/24 11:34 PM |
| 1 | If men’s carnal first choice is younger woman, would you expect older men to be women’s?Look, if you took all constraints off, then yeah, actual male pedophilia aimed at pre-pubescent girls is probably a lot more prevalent than it is reported to be now. And yes, even non-pedophiles have some sexual attraction to pre-pubescent girls even if it is kinda vague and isn't necessarily something such men men would even try to consummate if they could. But pre-pubescent girls are by no means the females most males find optimally attractive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/03/24 11:23 PM |
| – | If men’s carnal first choice is younger woman, would you expect older men to be women’s?I do disagree. Now, things are contextual as the age of puberty matters. But being strongly sexually attracted to pre-pubescent women is aberrant perversion. It is pedophilia. Being attracted to young girls who are fertile and have their entire fertility window ahead of them is very normal, in evolutionary terms. Now, we are the one thinking species. We've rightly decided that in today's environment, older men going after such girls is no good for anyone. But the best way to encourage this is no… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/03/24 11:15 PM |
| 1 | If men’s carnal first choice is younger woman, would you expect older men to be women’s?lol no But if you evened the playing field and removed all taboos, then purely physically, the ideal female age range would be lower than people are comfortable with, yes. But not 11. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/03/24 11:02 PM |
| 4 | Why do many women seem to take pleasure in rejecting certain men?It's a natural feeling of power and superiority that is tempting and somewhat intoxicating to someone in that position--this would include men if the roles were flipped. It is also a signal of their value. When men below a woman's league publicly hit on a woman it calls into question what her level really is. Publicly rejecting the guy in a 'what the fuck were you thinking way' rather than a 'after careful consideration, no' kinda way reaffirms her level with other women, herself, and men. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/03/24 07:28 AM |
| 1 | if women are better than men socially & aesthetically. Why the best version of men is slightly better than women ?Yes, but it is also possible women are actually objectively more attractive in some key ways. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/03/24 07:15 AM |
| 3 | In dating, as a man, it's demanded that you be confident and socially skilled. Meanwhile, women are allowed to be as neurotic and anti-social as they pleaseYes, the male and female burdens of performance differ. And maybe they are not equal, though women also have a greater reproductive cost. Still, don't forget that women also have social expectations as a gender that may not be super in sync with the actual personality of a given individual woman. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/03/24 07:07 AM |
| 3 | if women are better than men socially & aesthetically. Why the best version of men is slightly better than women ?SAT doesn't really work well because lots of males and females can cap out the writing section. It isn't that hard. Yes, women score better than men overall. But if there were no cap, what would be the gender breakdown on the top 0.01% of scorers on the writing section? I dunno. And yes, ofc male variability implies longer left and right tails to the distribution. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 11:09 PM |
| 7 | if women are better than men socially & aesthetically. Why the best version of men is slightly better than women ?I think it would depend on the test and parameters. But the male variability hypothesis is by no means accepted by all, and even those who accept it in general may differ on the specifics. Judging anecdotally by results in life is complicated by the fact that it is not just about actual ability. More men than women are likely to maximize potential at the extreme end by being willing to live unhealthy, unbalanced lives that are all about manifesting a given talent to its fullest. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 10:58 PM |
| 6 | Men are constantly told they are delusional and shoot for women out of their league, but even the casual observer can see that the exact opposite is true ***EDITED PER MOD REQUEST***Yes, but that assumes her situation is the same as men's. Men have a lower and more flexible attraction floor. The man may be happier paired up if he lowers his standards. The woman may be sexually traumatized by having to sleep with a male body that her own body recoils at, even if she knows he is 'on her level'. She may be happier alone. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 10:33 PM |
| 4 | if women are better than men socially & aesthetically. Why the best version of men is slightly better than women ?Sure. And it's a theory. But we don't really know the full extent of male variability and where it applies. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 10:30 PM |
| 1 | Men are constantly told they are delusional and shoot for women out of their league, but even the casual observer can see that the exact opposite is true ***EDITED PER MOD REQUEST***Like women, there are biological constraints on what men can be. But yes, it is possible that instead of female standards going up, male attractiveness is somehow going down. Or that, as you say, if this is going to be a world about mating for sexual desirability, men need to start investing in their own the way women always did in theirs. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 10:30 PM |
| 31 | if women are better than men socially & aesthetically. Why the best version of men is slightly better than women ?The male curves for various qualities are flatter, with longer left and right tails. This is male variability theory. The best and worst of anything are usually mostly men. But things are different at the median. Women do have superior social skills at the median. Whether women are objectively more attractive at the median is debated. Possible. Hard to say. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 09:27 PM |
| 3 | Men are constantly told they are delusional and shoot for women out of their league, but even the casual observer can see that the exact opposite is true ***EDITED PER MOD REQUEST***I was just advancing a possible objection to the OP's assumptions. But I don't necessarily believe it. We do need to have serious conversations about the big picture of our family creation and raising ideal. Women as citizens are at least morally required to think about such things and join in that conversation. Sex and marriage and the like are not entirely individual decisions--society has a stake, too. But as to the answers, I don't know. Part of what we are finding out is just how innately s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 09:24 PM |
| 14 | Men are constantly told they are delusional and shoot for women out of their league, but even the casual observer can see that the exact opposite is true ***EDITED PER MOD REQUEST***Have you considered what a woman should do if the men she can get a relationship from are simply unattractive to her? Yes, many women in such a situation are a bit delusional about their chances of truly landing the guys they are attracted to. But some are not. And there is no guarantee that if the women who are deluded are disabused of their delusions they will just pair up with the guys they can land for a relationship. These women, if they get a reality check, may just opt out then. Or they m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 09:12 PM |
| 1 | What advice would you give to average and below average men who want hookup and not be in a monogamous relationship?Other than become above average in key qualities, then these men probably have to aim at women quite far below them in SMV rank and/or appearance. If you want to know how a an average guy can get casual like Chad, and with the same caliber of women that average guy could relationship up, the answer is that he usually cannot. TV and movies have warped young men's minds as to what is normal and achievable. Most women don't do casual regularly, even today. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 09:06 PM |
| -1 | Men shouldn't dismiss so quickly the idea that unequal distribution of housework/childcare contributes to divorcesI think a key reality check is whether, if Mom has to go on a business trip or go to hospital for a bit or whatever, she needs to make some huge letter or not explaining to Dad what to do, who to call, who has what appointment, where, when, etc.? How many men who work roughly the same hours as t heir wives at work, and who even put in as many hours at home, are TRUE Co-CEOs of the family? Do they know the vaccination schedule? Do they Tammy's new 'Best Friend' that is teaching her bad habits and… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 09:02 PM |
| 1 | Would you date a woman that slept with your friend before you were exclusive?Yes, | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 05:25 PM |
| 4 | Are women generally speaking more loyal to their partner?Men still cheat more, and if you equalize opportunity, then a lot more IMO. But there are other aspects to loyalty. Men are maybe more ride of die there, but hard to say. Anything that fucks up your sexual attractiveness to the other gender tends to lead to a loss of love and loyalty, unless a woman is gonna go post-sexual. But then you have other issues. So yeah, when men don't perform or fail to earn, then women lose attraction. Men will be more loyal to a woman is this way. But if a woman sto… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 05:20 PM |
| 1 | Signs you ARE the woman's first choiceBasically, hypergamy is satisfied. For now. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 05:14 PM |
| 2 | Signs you ARE the woman's first choiceIt's complicated. Women dream. You are almost never gonna be her first choice in that kind of way. But as they mature, many can see how many of their dream guys were in fact bad dreams and not good ones. So you can be her best option, and one she is thankful for and admires. That's enough. No need to go into overly theoretical territory as to whether you were her 'first choice'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 05:13 PM |
| 8 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadMen have to put their money where their mouth is if they want things to change. It's a marketplace where money talks and talking walks. In this case, 'money' means actual relationship decisions. Men can say whatever they want, but so long as they keep picking the hottest of their options regardless of other issues, then women will respond to the incentive structure created. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 05:06 PM |
| 5 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadWhite people are good at many things; ageing is not one of them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 05:02 PM |
| 3 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt's hard to truly say because the obesity epidemic distorts everything. So in general, wherever people are less obese right now is where they are best looking, on average. But if you equalize for that, then it gets very hard to say. LA probably had the most Chads and Stacies, in the right neighborhoods. But the average is not so great. Ten years ago, Moldova had very attractive women. A mix of Slavic and Romanian, with the Romanian rounding out the harshness and witchiness you can get with Slav… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 05:01 PM |
| 19 | Would autistic guys have more luck if they were more social?Maybe. Autism is sort of a made up working definition for a whole host of personality and cognitive profiles. Some of these do better with women than others. Not sure extroversion is the most important of these traits, though it does matter. But if you are obviously autistic and can't mask, then being social alone might make it worse not better. Hard to say. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/03/24 04:55 PM |
| 2 | Do women (really) choose the wrong men?I cannot think of any time or place that sexual attraction was truly considered superfluous. Sure, sometimes that was an ideal. But in reality... | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/03/24 01:19 PM |
| 5 | There is a logical pattern in the manosphere that cannot be denied but also doesn't guarantee successBefore you study any TRP or whatever, you need to ground yourself with one absolute touchstone. Women are NOT NPCs in life. They are full player characters, just like you. They have their own desires and evolved instincts. Some are the same and some are different than men's. Women are at least as much prisoners of the times and the culture as men. You have to really look at things from their pov sometimes or everything else gets distorted. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/03/24 07:00 AM |
| 3 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadIt's hilarious in all the porn and masturbation threads that so many guys forget that porn is bad. Like we can argue whether it is worse than many other modern afflictions. But it is bad. The world would be better off without it. It is not some magic liberation from female sexual tyranny. JFC. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/03/24 06:49 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadI fear you can say the same thing about fucking... | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/03/24 06:48 AM |
| 7 | Do women (really) choose the wrong men?Sure, though men are going to reject a cute girl if they are pretty sure there is a supermodel waiting for them in the next room. But 'hypergamy' is absolutely pointing at a real thing, though it is hard to perfectly articulate what the core evolved instincts are behind it. So yes, the genders do behave differently in these areas if you get into the details. But that is a long conversation if one wants to be nuanced and get it as right as one can. But as a guy who likes and loves women in genera… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/03/24 01:56 AM |
| 0 | How is the second branch secured during a monkey branching?These are some fair points, but there are also gendered patterns to this worth discussing. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/03/24 01:27 AM |
| 11 | Do women (really) choose the wrong men?The evolutionary lens is important, but has to be used carefully. We are in a very novel environment compared to what our instincts are evolved for. Do either men or women choose bad partners? All the time. But at the same time, choices you are not attracted to sexually at all are off the table. They aren't options. Culture and environment absolutely play a huge role, not only in what we find sexually attractive, but also as to the extent to which we prioritize maximum sexual attractiveness over… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/03/24 01:02 AM |
| 1 | Apparently women in your "friends circle" really dislike you hitting on themOh yeah, I sometimes use 'FriendZone' very roughly, but I also believe that the true FriendZone--where somehow the friendship is impeding sexual success that would otherwise have been possible--is quite rare. I totally get the variety of experiences you've had with 'nice guys'. I think it makes sense. Truthfully, I think guys who fall for girls they are friends with, or who try to use friendship as a route to a sexual relationship (sometimes knowingly and sometimes not), as well as women who hav… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/03/24 12:24 AM |
| 1 | Apparently women in your "friends circle" really dislike you hitting on themDefinitely. Though I don't like overplaying too much into the now common meme that these hapless 'nice guys' aren't really nice. Usually they are as nice as other guys and not Machiavellian manipulators of anything like that. But yeah, they will make everything seem so meaningful and important and potentially damaging. Just like these friendzoned guys are not sociopathic manipulators, the girls who friendzone them are not bad people either. So the girls can feel how intense it gets for the guy a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 11:00 PM |
| 1 | Q4M: When you ask women to rate someone, are you asking if she's attracted to them? Or are you asking what she thinks they're objective looks are on a 1-10 scale?yep. you women are devilishly complex lol also, depending on the woman, the more reactive nature of women's sexuality throws a wrench into things because you are asking women whose sexuality is in 'sleep mode' what they like when it is activated. For many, there is a disconnect of sorts and sexuality-off girl does not fully understand what sexuality-on girl likes. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 06:29 PM |
| 1 | Q4M: When you ask women to rate someone, are you asking if she's attracted to them? Or are you asking what she thinks they're objective looks are on a 1-10 scale?I dunno. I find it hard to generalize because even as a youth I have asked the question and meant different things in different contexts. I think if we ask a purely looks question we generally are looking for a fairly objective answer, since that is at least a bit more objective than overall attractiveness. And we'd expect a woman who finds a given guy hot but is aware that her opinion is not that conventional for women to note that. If we ask something like 'do you think mark is hot or sexy or … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 04:49 PM |
| 1 | Q4M: When you ask women to rate someone, are you asking if she's attracted to them? Or are you asking what she thinks they're objective looks are on a 1-10 scale?OFC in a social science situation you want women to lean into their idiosyncratic preferences and 'types', because if it turns out everyone shares that type, then it never was a 'type' lol But in a casual situation it is, like all human things, complex. The question is ambiguous: do you think he is cute could mean 'cute in general' or 'cute to you'. I think most women will kinda conflate both in a casual situation and fudge it. But again, depends on the woman. Women I have known who had strong t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 04:37 PM |
| 1 | Q4M: When you ask women to rate someone, are you asking if she's attracted to them? Or are you asking what she thinks they're objective looks are on a 1-10 scale?Gender-based tendencies don't change the fact that at the individual level there is enormous variation. I think you have good points on the question at hand, though it is also pretty contextual and depends on exactly what is being asked in what situation. As is my annoying habit, I was sort of expanding the discussion into a related area I found more interesting. My general gripe about female posters here is a reluctance to simply analyze something in a purely descriptive manner. There is often … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 04:05 PM |
| 1 | Q4M: When you ask women to rate someone, are you asking if she's attracted to them? Or are you asking what she thinks they're objective looks are on a 1-10 scale?I think women's brains in general do not tend towards systematizing. So yeah, almost no matter how you word it, if you ask a woman if someone is attractive, she will tend to immediately go to whether he is attractive to HER. If you push, maybe she will talk about types and say 'Not to me, but some of my friends would be into him.' Things like population level SMV scores, 'objective' ratings of looks and such are not usually the kinds of ways most women look at life. Furthermore, even among women… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 03:16 PM |
| 2 | How much are men told to bottle up their emotions relative to girls?Being emotional means many things. Some would argue that men, driven by testosterone-fueled emotions, are more emotional. More aggressive. More impulsive. More angry. More risk taking. But yes, in terms of the kinds of emotions that fall under the Big 5 Personality category of neuroticism, women are more prone to them. It is hypothesized to be an advantage as a mother of young infants. Sexual polarity requires men lean the other way so they have something to bring to a relationship to complement… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 03:06 PM |
| 1 | Apparently women in your "friends circle" really dislike you hitting on themI like in China, a very implicit culture. But the differences between an explicit one like the US and an implicit one like China are not so starkly different on this. It isn't as if everyone can be direct about everything in the US either. That isn't how humans human. That is called being autistic. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 03:00 PM |
| 1 | Apparently women in your "friends circle" really dislike you hitting on themKinda. But personality can be part of setting your league, or impact your chances in batting out of it. We can never say that it is all looks. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 02:58 PM |
| 1 | Apparently women in your "friends circle" really dislike you hitting on themYou can also tell by the vibe. When you are at least sufficiently attractive to her that sex would not be unthinkable in the right circumstances (even if those will never happen), the vibe is different. Having been friends with girls in both situations, I know. Also, in truth, guys shouldn't generally cultivate close cross-gender friendships unless they are doing well enough romantically and have options. It really is the danger zone all around. So much of this drama stuff never happens if you w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 02:58 PM |
| 0 | Does a mans social status attract women?OFC status of all kinds is attractive to women. This is evo psych 101. Common sense 101. No need for evo psych to know it. Now, there are nuanced differences in the kind of attraction status vs. looks vs. charisma vs. dominance can create. Sure. But yes, status is very attractive. OTOH, the bigger the difference between a guy's status and other attractive qualities, the more likely he is to get gold diggers and the like if he goes for women who would have been out of his league without the statu… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 02:50 AM |
| 6 | Apparently women in your "friends circle" really dislike you hitting on them'Close Enough' is not just a matter of frequency. If you are wrong, it isn't always dead wrong. And for a variety of reasons, a friendship is actually much more salvageable if the guy who makes a move but gets shot down was actually pretty close to having a shot. Like almost in her league, or in it, but just not her type, or it was just bad timing and in another timeline she might have dated him. It's hard to really articulate exactly why this is. Part of it is that a large SMV difference in a c… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 02:46 AM |
| 12 | Apparently women in your "friends circle" really dislike you hitting on themWhy are the men being so stupid here? OF COURSE it would be different if he were in her league, or if she somehow found him sexually attractive. That is the fucking point. He should fucking know where he stands. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 12:44 AM |
| 18 | Apparently women in your "friends circle" really dislike you hitting on themBut don't you see, THAT is the whole point. People should generally know when they have a chance. Not perfectly, but close enough. How can you be friends with a girl for a long time and NOT know where you stand sexually? Or at least have a pretty good estimation. Don't blow up friendships for no reason when there is no chance of romance. It's just that simple. If your feelings have become too strong, then yeah, spend more time apart or even end things. But don't be the guy in the video. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/02/24 12:43 AM |
| 2 | Resources and casual sexAlso, attraction is by no means purely physical, even if we are talking about a zipless fuck where you will never see the person again. This is especially true for women. I cannot count the number of times women I have known have told me stories that amount to 'I was drunk and bored/horny. Met this hot guy at a bar. Was going to take him home and sleep with him. BUT then he had to open his mouth...' As to why younger women sleep with older guys 'for free', well, again that is complicated. Some o… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/02/24 05:40 AM |
| 3 | Prehistoric patriarchy vs Prehistoric matriarchyThere was no doubt Goddess worship. But that is a far cry from a kind of matriarchy that is anything like a mirror image of patriarchy. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/02/24 05:34 AM |
| 6 | Prehistoric patriarchy vs Prehistoric matriarchyIt's almost a cliche in anthropology to project one's politics onto prehistory. Still, Darwin is closer to being right here. There is little convincing evidence of any matriarchies, much less a prehistory that was primarily matriarchal. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/02/24 04:16 AM |
| 1 | Resources and casual sexYour examples are extreme. Money can't move the needle nearly far enough in those circumstances. But in general, female attraction is complex and it is hard to draw bright lines like money only being attractive if a woman will have access to it. When a woman decides to sleep with a man, there are obviously both conscious and unconscious calculations at play. On an unconscious level, money is a flawed but functional heuristic for determining the kind of worldly dominance, status and competence th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/02/24 04:02 AM |
| 2 | Is it reasonable to expect monogamyEnvironment also matters. In some circumstances, it is pretty reasonable to hope that you really do monopolize a great deal of your partner's sexuality. But in a modern context, where genders mix, masturbation is almost encouraged, and we are titillated 24/7, there is really no chance of that. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/02/24 01:28 AM |
| 1 | Is the Red Pill something you would recommend to someone who wants to improve their dating experience?The key thing to understand is when the big picture should inform your individual dating life, and when it is better to focus on how variable people are at the individual level and just deal with them more as unique individuals than 'men' or 'women'. A lot of people get fucked up there. I don't go around thinking about my SMV ranking and hers when dating. Of course, 'leagues' were always a rougher and more intuitive way to look at these things that is useful at the individual level. But again, h… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 10:11 PM |
| 1 | Is the Red Pill something you would recommend to someone who wants to improve their dating experience?I get you. And yeah, stats can fuck certain people up. They can be essential, if used well, to other people in other situations. Very circumstantial. To be honest, there isn't much content that is considered really hardcore TRP that I like. I have to filter so much. Nowadays, I can go directly to the evo psych sources and skip all the bad stuff. But some people's brains don't work that way. And depending on what someone's issue with dating is, they may need some TRP tonic--toxins and all. If you… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 09:49 PM |
| 1 | Is the Red Pill something you would recommend to someone who wants to improve their dating experience?There is no 'universal' Red Pill anymore. The manosphere has expanded and fractured. The rise of podcasts has made the evo psych sources that TRP was originally based on more directly accessible. So it is meaningless to talk about whether TRP is good or bad or anything. You have to be more specific. Depending on what my friend's issues were, I definitely could recommend some content that the OP might consider TRP or TRP-adjacent that would help him out. But I'd be pretty selective. And yeah, if … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 09:30 PM |
| 1 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?I don't know why you think I'm some manosphere type. I'm much more evo psych, and from the source, not TRP intermediaries. What you are saying is absolutely true. But again, the whole question is HOW picky? What % of men will be considered unfit to reproduce by fully emancipated women. We do not know. Animals vary in their degree of female selectivity. And humans are unique among animals. But yes, ofc women are more selective than men. Nobody doubts that. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 05:47 PM |
| 1 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?Yes, but the whole point is HOW selective? There are various unique human features that incentivize women to not want to share top men. But there are deeper evolved instincts that are more polygamous. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 05:04 PM |
| 1 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?I think it is clear that maximizing eugenics is not the best path. But eugenics are not really irrelevant, either. A lot of current cultures have some strong dysgenic patterns, and these are a problem. Unclear how best to address them, though. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 04:54 PM |
| 2 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?Are you saying other female mammals are not picky maters? Or that human females are not? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 04:28 PM |
| 1 | Do most women underestimate their sexual bargaining power in modern times?There's also the fact that at the upper levels of the SMP, things invert somewhat. Top men have more leverage than even top women. And to SOME extent, women are looking up and adapting their behavior to what works there, not with Johnny average. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 04:18 PM |
| 1 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?That isn't true. Other female mammals pick which males to present to, and fight or run from males they don't want to breed. Are you saying this or someone else is? Don't follow the logic here either way. And sure, I don't really try to track the true attitudes of the posters I find uninteresting here. I'm here mostly to discuss ideas, so I just 'next' 90% of posters who don't have anything interesting (for me) to say. I'm not sure I agree with any broad characterizations of what the Red Pill is … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 04:10 PM |
| 1 | If we can agree hypergamy is realThat's the basics, yes. Though there are such significant differences between humans and even our closest primate cousins that inferring human nature from that of other animals is dangerous. And the real issue is not hypergamy itself, but the extent of it. We honestly do not know how innately hypergamous women will turn out to be, even if free to indulge in it as much as they want. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 04:04 PM |
| 2 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?Not necessarily sadism, since I think a lot of these guys are just kinda clueless. But as to your point, this is why I do not advocate any kind of policy measures now. We have no idea what is going on exactly, or why. But it is definitely possible for an environment or culture to artificially inflate male or female attraction standards. And if that is what is happening, that inflation could be undone. It could also be that men are somehow just objectively less attractive than they need to be, an… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 03:58 PM |
| 3 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?I argue the opposite. Constraining female sexual selectivity through enforced monogamy seemed to outcompete more eugenic civilizations at the macro level. Now, maybe we will come up with some other combination that outcompetes enforced monogamy, and is more eugenic. Hard to say. But there is no straight line correlation between a more eugenic society and a more competitive one. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 03:49 PM |
| 3 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?There are lots of potential problems with this seemingly simple logic. Humans are an intelligent species whose technology has created a massively novel evolutionary environment. If female selectivity is too high, for example, your polity or culture might not be able to outcompete others long enough to see positive results from greater eugenics. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 02:19 PM |
| 1 | If we can agree hypergamy is realI think you are missing the point of my argument. I am saying that male and female mate choice dynamics are qualitatively different. It isn't just about them having different criteria and women turning up the selectivity meter a bit. Women's desire to personally 'look up' to her mate, as well as female concern about male ranking, make female mate choice fundamentally different than male. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 02:17 PM |
| 1 | If we can agree hypergamy is realIt's not about which traits a gender desires in a potential mate. It is about how selective they are and how they evaluate potential mates. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 12:01 PM |
| 1 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?OFC it matters is you can inspire lust. But that is the ultimate question PPD tends to dance around: How innately sexually selective are women as their material need for a man trends towards zero? How much is culture and environment, and how much is biology, when it comes to a woman's standards with respect to what she finds truly lust-inspiring, and to what extent? We really do not know. The more moderate men still do tend to have some sexual expectations--many women still call even these somew… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 10:55 AM |
| 2 | If we can agree hypergamy is realThere's no law that says the genders are symmetrical here. In fact, the general biological law that the gender which invests more in reproduction is more selective about mate choice speaks to the fact that there are fundamental gender asymmetries here. Whatever Hypergamy is exactly, it is certainly about a comparison between a female and potential mates with respect to certain criteria having to do with dominance and a kind of worldly competence. While both genders use their own standing to part… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 10:41 AM |
| 1 | If we can agree hypergamy is realThe issue is this foolish idea some people have that you can evaluate the entire holistic worth of a person. Or that people even try to do that. Even when people talk about dating 'down' they tend to have some specific criteria with respect to what 'down' means--they don't usually mean they are dating a person of inferior total human value. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 06:44 AM |
| 1 | If we can agree hypergamy is realRight. But it is fair game to question whether there is more to hypergamy than just the long noted practice of women marrying up in status. And it should be noted that hypergamy, however defined, can calibrate to smaller distinctions if needed. Assortative mating and hypergamy are by no means mutually exclusive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 06:42 AM |
| 1 | If we can agree hypergamy is realThe issue is you are arguing with fools who believe hypergamy means women date up in terms of some overall, holistic evaluation of a person. But who could do such math? It's hard to perfectly define or articulate what hypergamy is. But there is more to it than both genders symmetrically wanting the best deal they can get, but simply having different criteria. Male and Female mate choice dynamics are not essentially the same, just with different desired criteria. The core dynamics are different I… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 06:40 AM |
| 3 | Is it reasonable to expect monogamyYou've conflated several things, chiefly among them the reasonableness of hoping for monogamy and your own severe doubts about how attracted your GF is to you, beyond even monogamous considerations. Also, even monogamy has levels to it. It is one thing to hope for and expect a partner to only have sex with you. It is another to want them to literally have zero sexual attraction to anyone else. The latter is some pretty deep monogamy and fairly unrealistic in today's environment. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 06:13 AM |
| 10 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?Right. The other possibility is that standards for lust are primarily driven by biology and not environment, and what we are seeing now is the true levels of innate female sexual selectivity, finally freed from the need to trade sex for anything else. It's also possible that modern men are just less lust inducing than men before them in some ways. There are many possibilities, many of which could be happening at the same time. We don't even know the facts on the ground. There are some worrisome … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 06:08 AM |
| – | Manosphere contradictionsThe truth is that while I understand the worry a lot of men have that they will be the Beta Bucks option, I do think trying to gauge her true desire by any kind of simple litmus test based on how fast she slept with you vs. others is a bad idea. There are just too many variables at play. Logan Paul may be a good example. It's quite likely she is not less desirous of Logan than other men she has fucked sooner; my guess is that she made Logan wait so that he wouldn't think she was easy. she made h… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 06:05 AM |
| 9 | Does it make sense to expect lust if you can’t authentically inspire lust? Does it make sense to expect your partner to fake lust for you if haven’t made explicit what they get in return?The argument is that women's standards have become artificially inflated beyond what biology dictates they must be; thus, in theory, the inflation could be undone. It would a true lowering of standards and not fakery. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/02/24 02:18 AM |
| 2 | Is the state of modern relationships going to just keep getting worse or....has it never been better?Well, I think we'd best agree to disagree here. It's a pretty broad subject that goes well beyond the scope of this thread. But for the record, for all their flaws, the earlier Beats were on to something; I have mostly contempt for where the Hippies went with it, though. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 11:01 PM |
| 8 | If we can agree hypergamy is realHypergamy is clearly pointing at something real, but exactly what the evolved instincts are that support various forms of hypergamy are difficult to say. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 10:16 PM |
| 2 | Manosphere contradictionsI totally get that, and I'd personally avoid using sexual history like this as some rough gauge of 'true desire'. But I also get the underlying fear. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 10:10 PM |
| 2 | Is the state of modern relationships going to just keep getting worse or....has it never been better?I think that during and up to the 60s revolution, a lot of people recognized that Americans were living (somewhat) disciplined but sterile and purposeless lives. Important parts of the soul, so to speak, were not being tended to. But the 60s answer of throwing off that discipline and embracing a free-for-all of individualistic hedonism was not the right response to the problem. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 10:09 PM |
| 1 | Do people not date based on their romantic feelings?It's only meant to be modeled as a marketplace at large scale. And it's an imperfect modeling. You shouldn't be running around looking at your personal dating life primarily through an economic lens. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 06:49 PM |
| 9 | Relationships are not 50/50But you really think that modern men put in more total hours of effort to the marriage than women, as a reliable trend and pattern? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 04:26 PM |
| 32 | Manosphere contradictionsPoint one isn't necessarily a contradiction, and a couple of different arguments have been grouped together. The manosphere point is that you do not want a woman who is basically not desirous of you, but has had her party fun and now you are her best stability option. So generally such men have no problem waiting for sex IF she made every other guy wait for sex just as long, if not longer. What is worrying is when she fucked a lot of guys on date 1, but made you wait for 3 months. I get that the… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 04:22 PM |
| 16 | Relationships are not 50/50I think most modern relationships do aim at a 50/50 (rough and over time) split in overall EFFORT. Naturally, some people actually contribute more as they have more talent or better luck or a higher paying job or whatever. But it is the effort (generally in time) that matters. And yes, even in effort, often one partner puts in more. People are just different and fail to live up to ideals all the time. That said, I see no evidence that it is generally the woman who puts in less effort and time th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 04:15 PM |
| 11 | Relationships are not 50/50Yeah, but sophisticated people understand that '50/50' is just rough shorthand for this equitable split of EFFORT--not necessarily true contribution as people's talents vary. No one sane suggests keeping constant detailed 'score'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 04:13 PM |
| 18 | Women preferring to stay single because they don't feel attracted to average men says a lot about their unrealistic expectationsIt's true that a lot of modern women do not accurately understand their chance of landing a man who meets their standards. BUT the OP has an assumption that women buy into the idea that we are entitled to or 'supposed' to be able to pair up with a member of the opposite sex of roughly similar SMV rank. Maybe, men are just less attractive. Maybe modern men are even more so. Maybe women are too naturally selective for this, and thus high pairing rates always involved forceful suppression of female… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 04:10 PM |
| 2 | Do you think women will have to come to terms with dating men who earn less?We will see. I think it is a bigger consideration than you make it out to be, and more gender asymmetrical. Yes, most people do end up marrying within their general class and income level. BUT when men made all the money, enough married downward to keep the pairing rates high. Now that women are making as much as men, it will be difficult to keep the pairing rates as high if a lot of women are not as willing as men were to 'date down' economically. And it is unclear how far women's abandonment o… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 04:03 PM |
| 5 | If a man wouldn’t want the women in his life being in porn, then his feelings about porn are pretty anti-porn.This is true. But the argument would go that differences in the extent of true sexual selectivity result in this similar process having different results for the genders. Men, as they mature, may also prioritize less raw sexual desire and attraction in a partner, but men have that to spare. So the wife may be a little less purely hot than some of their previous partners, but it doesn't really matter much. Women, on the other hand, as the argument goes, didn't have lust to spare. So when there ar… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 03:57 PM |
| 5 | Do you think women will have to come to terms with dating men who earn less?I think you are right that the manosphere overhypes women's financial hypergamy. However, I think you are going too far in the other direction. Male income is still a very important consideration to most women, though they do vary in the details. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 06:48 AM |
| 1 | Do you think women will have to come to terms with dating men who earn less?There's definitely a complex mix of nature and nurture here. As you say, the desire to partner up and have children is strong. Given the math at play, women have had no choice but to 'marry down' a lot more than in the past. That said, this move has taken longer and gone less far than many social scientists predicted, given how well women are doing economically. Moreover, there are signs that relationship quality suffers significantly when women outearn their husbands. Perhaps this will ameliora… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 06:44 AM |
| 1 | Do you think women will have to come to terms with dating men who earn less?In the EEA (Environment of Evolutionary Adaptedness) there was no 'money'; thus, women's primary mating instincts are not about male wealth and income. Rather, they are an imperfect heuristic in a novel evolutionary environment. As such, there is some room to maneuver here. But men will have to figure out a way to be dominant and admirable to a woman who makes more than him. Can be done, but it is not easy. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 06:36 AM |
| – | The decline of the James Bond franchise shows how traditional masculine values are quickly fading into the background.James Bond is not really a paragon of true male virtue. Rather, he is an example of certain attractive male qualities. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 06:33 AM |
| – | If a man wouldn’t want the women in his life being in porn, then his feelings about porn are pretty anti-porn.There are deeper reasons for the 'ick', and they are not all about status. Women get the 'ick' more readily from promiscuous women than men. If you look at it evolutionarily, it all makes sense. It was just naturally easier to focus more on constraining female sexuality than male if you want to avoid big social problems. Women are the ones who actually get pregnant, after all. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 01:02 AM |
| – | If a man wouldn’t want the women in his life being in porn, then his feelings about porn are pretty anti-porn.It is unfortunate that this process happens alongside the the ageing and desiring babies process. So it is hard to believe she is just maturing vs. her situation and bargaining power changed. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 12:58 AM |
| – | If a man wouldn’t want the women in his life being in porn, then his feelings about porn are pretty anti-porn.This is not wrong. But there are more dimensions than this to men' complex feelings about female sexuality. I think the PPD men overblow it, as part of the gender wars; but there is an inherently asymmetric attitude towards male and female sexual purity that is not just based on status, or it being harder for men to fuck around than women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/02/24 12:53 AM |
| 2 | If personality is so important, why wont women fall for their male friends more?Gotcha. To be fair, there is an underlying and unresolved question of just how sexually selective women will turn out to be as their material need for a man trends towards zero. It honestly could turn out to be disastrously high, but we just can't know right now. Plus, separating nature from nurture here is, as always, very tough. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 05:06 PM |
| 2 | If personality is so important, why wont women fall for their male friends more?Except for a teenaged boy, all of life is 'extreme arousal'. But yeah, women also have those post coital bonding hormones. LBJ said the gender wars was a distraction so we wouldn't focus on growing income inequality? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 05:03 PM |
| 5 | If personality is so important, why wont women fall for their male friends more?Truth, maybe the female approach is actually more normal and natural. The male approach is what happens when one gender is more drugged up on sexual attraction hormones that distort their ability to reason properly lol | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 04:59 PM |
| 19 | If personality is so important, why wont women fall for their male friends more?Women still weight a much wider variety of criteria, including personality, more heavily than men do when it comes to mate selection. Men are still almost all about the looks. HOWEVER, women are pickier overall than men, and have a threshold system: if you do not meet a minimum standard in some key criteria, it is very hard to compensate with outperformance in another area. This makes it seem like whatever thing you are missing is now THE MOST IMPORTANT thing to women ever. And it is, when you l… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 04:51 PM |
| 7 | If personality is so important, why wont women fall for their male friends more?Bingo. 99% of the FriendZone stuff is not a FriendZone--you just are not attractive enough for her. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 04:48 PM |
| 7 | If personality is so important, why wont women fall for their male friends more?True. To be honest, just like exposure to raw male sexuality has traumatized a lot of women, the same is true for many men. Getting exposed to women's greater sexual selectivity is just a hard pill for many men to accept and swallow. And this is true even when not massively exaggerating the extent of this greater selectivity. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 04:47 PM |
| 7 | If personality is so important, why wont women fall for their male friends more?Maybe. Or they at least don't have sexually attractive ones to her. I get where this idea of women having the more 'moral' sexuality comes from and was cultivated, but we should be past that now. Women find hot what they find hot, like men do. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 04:43 PM |
| 3 | Is a One Night Stand the truest form of a woman showing Burning Sexual Desire?And then the gender wars here make productive cross-gender conversation pretty hard. Each side reps their team. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 04:26 PM |
| 2 | There are simple logistical reasons why divorce is worse for men than for women which explain the disparity in divorce initiationIt could also have something to do with the fact that women find it harder to fuck someone they no longer are attracted to, or don't love anymore, or even hate. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 04:00 PM |
| 2 | What makes something “feminine”? What makes something “masculine”?It should basically be about tendencies that are more typically found in men vs. women. But yes, the masculine or feminine 'ideal' aspect complicates things. There are a lot of traits that tend to occur more in men, but that women today are not going to label 'masculine'. A lot of more male typical behaviors lead to more worldly power. Women have decided that they want this power. too. Trusting men to take care of them didn't work out well in their opinion. Thus, it is very hard to say what is m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 03:40 PM |
| 9 | Is a One Night Stand the truest form of a woman showing Burning Sexual Desire?True. Still, in some ways being fully exposed to the sexuality of the other gender (including the worst deviant aspects of it when being tempted by bad things) has traumatized both sexes. Women see how sick and depraved and relentless male sexuality can be. Men see how mercenary, transactional and judging many (not all) women can be about their men. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 03:34 PM |
| 5 | Is a One Night Stand the truest form of a woman showing Burning Sexual Desire?Ha. People forget how situational a woman's decisions can be, including sexual ones. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 03:20 PM |
| 10 | Is the state of modern relationships going to just keep getting worse or....has it never been better?As much as I hate a lot of what happened in the 1960s, it did explode into being for a reason. We see the carnage of so much unencumbered individual choice and the problems this poses in terms of resisting temptation. But do we fully appreciate just how constrained and trapped people in the 1950s felt in bad relationships? When they no longer felt loved? When they no longer felt any attraction to a partner but had to still have sex with them? Not that one can turn back the clock of course. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 02:51 PM |
| 1 | What constitutes “SMV” for women is not the same as what constitutes “SMV” for menYes, this is why looksmatch and smv match are not the same. You are also right that many men project male mate selection criteria on to women. I do not even like comparing SMV across the genders as women usually just have more raw SMV. It is more productive to talk about SMV RANK, as in what is his or her SMV rank among their own gender, usually as a percentile figure. It is normal for women to mate upwards in SMV rank, at least in the bottom and middle of the Sexual Marketplace tiers. Men are m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/02/24 10:30 AM |
| – | For all you - fertilityYes, the male biological clock is overhyped here as part of the ongoing gender trench warfare. That said, just because a man can have a child at 65 doesn't mean he's going to be a great father at that age. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/02/24 05:19 AM |
| 7 | Why are men encouraging women to settle for men they aren’t attracted to when they know that women aren’t going to pour into a man she doesn’t like ?On a certain level, you joining the bigger conversation and being forthright and honest about your situation IS doing something about it. Many women have trouble doing this. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/02/24 05:42 AM |
| 6 | Why are men encouraging women to settle for men they aren’t attracted to when they know that women aren’t going to pour into a man she doesn’t like ?No. The best forms of the argument are asking women to understand the benefits of pairing up, to themselves and to society. And as a result, to at least try to make sure they are not artificially inflating their standards to a point they cannot find a man who will commit to them. That's it. If there is no artificial inflation, and women's true standards are just higher than most of them can achieve, on a hardwired intractable basis, then we have a tragedy with no good answers. But since that is … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/02/24 04:52 AM |
| 2 | This sub passively censors red pill discussion through a strange list of “rules” that seems to grow by the dayIt's Reddit and the Internets. There is no perfect solution here. But if some heavy handed moderation isn't used, this place gets spammed by Black Pill whiners and doomers. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/02/24 01:49 AM |
| 3 | Why is it so bad to fall for your friends?It's a lot more common for men to fall for their female friends than the other way around, for a host of reasons. But yes, it does happen both ways. But the bottom line is that 95% of the time you ruin a friendship because you had no chance. If you did have a chance, you'd know it. That is why it is bad. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/02/24 01:46 AM |
| 2 | To what extent do men or women exhibit tribalism when it comes to their own genders?To some extent, women are more tribal and externally loyal to one another because they had to be: Solidarity because men were stronger and could kill them. Women have also evolved to show superficial loyalty to the group, while competing intensely but covertly. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/02/24 01:37 AM |
| 1 | Why is it so bad to fall for your friends?There is some aspect of familiarity reducing the initial mystery that is part of attraction, especially for women. But I don't think this is that important a dynamic most of the time. Really, the issue is not that it is hard to fall for friends at all. Rather, the issue is more that if you are friends, you have likely known one another for a while; and if there had been potential for attraction, she would have shown it by now. You need to meet an attraction threshold for romance to bloom; all th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/02/24 01:26 AM |
| 0 | Women face no significant penalty when dating in their 30sHer weight has varied. Not sure where she is now. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/02/24 12:21 PM |
| 1 | Part 1: The future is femaleInteresting. My bad assuming everyone is in the US. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/02/24 12:37 AM |
| 0 | Part 1: The future is femaleTo be fair, you can achieve all of this through contracts and don't need to be legally married. I'm not knocking marriage, I think it's great and we need more. Just saying. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/02/24 05:07 PM |
| 2 | Men are having less sex, but women are somehow contracting more STDsEven if one article says what the OP says it does, there seem to be a lot of contradictory studies on what is happening in the current sexual marketplace, including whether the rise in sexlessness is gendered at all. If there is a rise in STIs, and a big IF, it is far from clear what would be the cause. Yes, there is a valid hypothesis that when it comes to casual sex, women are sharing Chad. But another hypothesis is that the higher sociosexuality people all kinda fuck one another, and even thi… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/02/24 07:07 PM |
| 4 | It seems for the average guy every woman is suddenly "demisexual"I don't know where we got this idea that average guys are supposed to be able to have lots of casual sex? A lot of women basically don't do truly casual. Even if they hook up quickly, they are still hooking up with guys they want to try out as boyfriends. But some girls do do the full casual thing. ANd maybe for that they are picky AND weight things like looks and charm more than they would for a relationship. C'est la vie. I'm much more concerned about women becoming too selective so that they … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/02/24 08:16 PM |
| 1 | Is there any legitimate argument to be made for the superiority of women over men?Well that is my point that instincts cant keep up with technologically-driven changes in environment and culture. But I would not characterize women as 'sitting on their asses' during hunter/gatherer times. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/02/24 02:46 PM |
| 1 | Is there any legitimate argument to be made for the superiority of women over men?Sorry. I don't really follow this line of criticism. Nature and nurture usually do intricate dances. Feedback loops. Yes, men had to prove themselves, but then they naturally evolved temperaments that help them do this. Vice versa for women. They had to take less risks--and too much risk for your 'breeders' was bad. So they evolved temperaments that support this. There is no better or worse here. Just better adapted to a given environment. If the genders achieved a sort of equilibrium for the en… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/02/24 09:19 AM |
| 1 | Is there any legitimate argument to be made for the superiority of women over men?Seems a bit of both. As usual. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/02/24 09:14 AM |
| 1 | Stop the Gaslight 1: BluepillWomen are less visual than men in many respects. Doesn't mean male looks don't matter. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/02/24 01:08 AM |
| 12 | Is there any legitimate argument to be made for the superiority of women over men?There's no such thing as 'superior' in evolution, only better adapted to a given environment. The chances of evolution ever doing exactly equal in a given environment are about zero. But the differences can be so small that it is too close to really measure which is superior. Also, given that women have to give birth, the difference in roles makes any accounting of which gender is better adapted overall to an environment hard to determine. But if we are talking about the modern world in the Libe… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/02/24 12:16 AM |
| 1 | Who are the type of young women who date older men? Most women I knew when I was early 20s were chasing hot college boys.Yeah, since not many polls on this, mostly one just has an anecdotal sense at best. Also, it's on a continuum. General sentiment has shifted against age-gapped relationships, but that doesn't mean suddenly everyone views them as super bad or anything. Furthermore, attitudes will vary greatly with demographics: ethnicity, age, region, gender, social class, etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/02/24 01:57 PM |
| 1 | Who are the type of young women who date older men? Most women I knew when I was early 20s were chasing hot college boys.That's a bit uncharitable. Everything is online. Depends how well you parse and filter it. I didn't mean I get my info. from like manosphere grifter gurus. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/02/24 10:03 AM |
| 1 | Who are the type of young women who date older men? Most women I knew when I was early 20s were chasing hot college boys.It's not a Jihad. And it is a confluence of many factors, not just feminist politics. But I know that when I was in college, a lot of girls would say this or that older male professor was hot. It wasn't the 1960s. They weren't going to sleep with him, but they did admit to finding them attractive--not many older profs, but a few. From what I can see online, this happens a lot less now. It's more: 'He's 45. Old man. Eww.' | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/02/24 06:51 AM |
| 3 | Who are the type of young women who date older men? Most women I knew when I was early 20s were chasing hot college boys.Maybe if peak woke / feminism has been reached. But there is a lot of political pressure on women not to sell out team female and date too old. Plus, in general, I do agree that ~3-5 years older man is best. Usually, large age-gapped relationships means he is thinking too much with his dick and/or she is being too mercenary. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/02/24 10:52 PM |
| 2 | Is it possible for people to lower their standards through therapy?I agree. What I'm talking about is useful for assessing overall functioning of the sexual marketplace. Society has an interest in individual mating decisions. But on an individual basis, yeah, you have to respect the variance. Can't be thinking graphs and spreadsheets when you dating. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/02/24 10:50 PM |
| 2 | Is it possible for people to lower their standards through therapy?Individual variance is large, of course. But there are strong macro level patterns for what people find attractive, which can serve as a rough guide for modeling population level behavior on a fairly objective and empirical level. Now, of course, 'Beauty' itself is the ultimate mystery. It transcends subjective vs. objective. You cannot even say for sure what everyone finds attractive is empirically and objectively 'beautiful'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/02/24 01:21 PM |
| 2 | Is it possible for people to lower their standards through therapy?I think the relevant literature supports the idea that even raw visceral sexual desirability is significantly influenced by culture and environment. This is particularly true for women. Such attraction is not really binary after all, but on a continuum. Just one example is how our attraction standards--even for raw desire--clearly scale to our own self-perceived attractiveness. But the scaling is not perfect: You definitely get people at the low end of the SMV tiers who simply are not attracted … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/02/24 01:09 PM |
| 2 | Is it possible for people to lower their standards through therapy?I think you can, to the extent they are inflated beyond some unknowable biological baseline. But yeah, in such cases, they have likely been culturally inflated. You don't undo cultural influences by just 'thinking and talking' usually. Normally, takes time and some behavior and environmental changes, which eventually get some traction. Something like getting off social media or stopping porn usage etc. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/02/24 09:29 AM |
| 1 | The number of people who refuse to acknowledge that men are way hornier than women is a perfect example of why blue pillers can not be trusted to have an honest discussionIt's similar to saying which sex cares more about looks. It's not an apples to apples comparison since dynamics are different. But when it comes to libido, it is fair to say that men have a much higher libido as a very low resolution summary. Women are more complex here, as usual. Have you seen how teen girls lose their fucking minds over an idol? And there is definitely a libidinous and sexual element to that worship. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/02/24 09:24 AM |
| – | ✨️🧚🏻♀️Why are lads personally offended over what a lady does with her body?🧚🏻♀️✨️Part of the reason is concern about the overall way the sexual marketplace works. Whether the assessment of what is actually happening is accurate or not, there is a worry that the widespread monogamy paradigm is dying. In particular, that men can no longer expect to have regular sexual access to women who are at roughly the same SMV ranking. Moreover, there is a specific concern that if the only way for widespread monogamy to work is for women to 'settle' for their rough SMV equals as women get… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/02/24 04:48 AM |
| 13 | Who are the type of young women who date older men? Most women I knew when I was early 20s were chasing hot college boys.It's always taken an exceptional man to be 35 and consistently dating 25 year olds, particularly if he's dating women who are truly desirous of him. The current politics make this even harder. Few women chased older men, fewer still based mostly on true desire. And nowadays, with the aforementioned politics involved, even fewer. Still, if a guy is hot and high status enough with charm, he can do it. But it isn't close to normal. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 08:03 PM |
| 6 | Men do not have high beauty standardsNot really empirically testable easily, for sure. But what can I say? Feels true from anecdotal evidence and things I have seen online, etc. The exposure to a bazillion perfect naked female bodies digitally has to have some impact. The hedonic treadmill is a well known phenomenon. There was a time seeing a woman's ankles was boner time. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 10:35 AM |
| 2 | What the "Pills" Get Wrong . . .AIDS doesn't really count as it wasn't a true cultural change. In fact, what we need is fundamental cultural change that will stick even as technology increasingly reduces the hard constraints. In time STDs could almost be gone. Birth control and even abortion might get easier and easier. Sure RvW was undone, but let's see what happens when you can buy a no side-effects, foolproof abortion pill. The right amount and type of sexual constraint in the 21st and 22nd centuries might look different th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 10:15 AM |
| 2 | What the "Pills" Get Wrong . . .Yes, I think excessive promiscuity is bad for both genders. More for women, but still bad for men. No idea how society can ever reign in some of the hypersexuality of the modern culture, though. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 06:02 AM |
| 3 | What the "Pills" Get Wrong . . .I was just saying that in Evo Psych and the like, High Value IS an amoral term. It's part of modeling the SMP as an economy, and the model itself is moral free. I grant you that the reason the term 'high value' gets confusing is that in actual parlance, people often do impute a moral dimension to the term 'value'. And yes, in a deeper sense, even when you model the SMP in an amoral fashion, you are capturing the aggregate morality of the current zeitgeist, at least insofar as it impacts the aggr… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 05:03 AM |
| 3 | What the "Pills" Get Wrong . . .There is a reason that TRP used to distinguish between Sexual Market Value and Relationship Market Value. Evo Pysch tends to just use SMV or Mate value as an overall, but will sometimes contextualize it. Men generally do have fairly different criteria for casual and serious commitment, with their mate choice dynamics coming much closer to women's (minus the hypergamy) when it comes to serious relationships. Women, as usual, are more complex and harder to characterize. For a lot of women, their c… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 02:40 AM |
| 2 | Men do not have high beauty standardsIt's hard to say which gender 'cares more about looks', because their mate choice dynamics are different. Men still weight female appearance more heavily compared to other criteria than women mate male appearance relative to other criteria (even if this weighting has crept up for women). But women are pickier overall, have a threshold system with a much less flexible attraction floor, and are much more willing to just walk away and play with cats if none of their achievable options seem sufficie… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 01:23 AM |
| 11 | Men do not have high beauty standardsI think this is maybe a little overdone. But I do agree that men have not been immune to the distortion of beauty standards that comes from massive overexposure to images perfect (and MORE than perfect) looking people. Because men's attraction floor is more flexible, they will still pair up with their SMV rank equivalents, whereas women often just won't pair at all because now their achievable options don't exceed the sexual repulsion/attraction threshold. But even if men will pair up with their… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 01:20 AM |
| 2 | What the "Pills" Get Wrong . . .High Value Man or Woman are shorthand for 'High MATE Value' in an economic modelling of the Sexual Marketplace. Thus the terms are completely amoral and simply represent how desired a given man or woman is as a mate, in aggregate, by the opposite sex. You can be a total saint or scumbag and be a high value man or woman in this context. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 01:00 AM |
| 16 | Switching around "Commitment" for "Sex" may allow more empathy between the sexes?I don't really think you can boil down male and female natures into single imperatives, much less that these imperatives are in complete opposition. But there can be some tension between what each gender is driven to want, for sure. But there are also accommodations that are still win-win synergies. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/02/24 12:57 AM |
| 2 | The gender war is not just an online thingI'm not sure saying you have serious problems with feminism is the same as wanting to take back the franchise from women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/02/24 07:57 PM |
| 1 | Your personality is mostly determined by factors outside your control and changing it fundamentally is EXTREMELY difficult, contrary to what other people might be espousingTrue. They can use it as an extreme example of looks aren't everything, but not as a great example of 'look what you can achieve by self improving your personality'. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/02/24 11:58 AM |
| 3 | Women are just as redpilled as men.Women often have more compartmentalized brains than men, able to hold contradictory beliefs and so on, when needed. I hypothesize that this is due to their greater neuroticism and agreeability combined with their evolutionary need to sometimes do things they might feel are immoral on some level. This compartmentalization helps them manage their tendency towards guilt and other intrusive negative thoughts. So that is what I mean that women have an intuitive (from DNA and culture) feeling for what… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/02/24 06:15 AM |
| 2 | Your personality is mostly determined by factors outside your control and changing it fundamentally is EXTREMELY difficult, contrary to what other people might be espousingSo what then is actionable from this? I guess have more sympathy for SMP losers of all kinds. I agree, though that should be basic human decency. Also, temper self-improvement expectations. Be realistic. Fair enough. Anything else? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/02/24 06:11 AM |
| 1 | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseSure. There is an interesting discussion. Just 'determined' is an inaccurate and loaded word. My bad there. And 'promiscuous' begs the question of 'relative to what standard'? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/02/24 05:49 AM |
| 5 | Women are just as redpilled as men.At this point, it really depends what you means by 'red pill'. I think it is perfectly acceptable to have a solid understanding of the best evo pysch. But there is a lot of really objectionable stuff that is presented as trp. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 07:37 PM |
| 1 | The gender war is not just an online thingWell if it really was the rules of the jungle then more unrestrained use of male force would also be on the table, though I'm glad it isn't/ I'm not that pessimistic. I think that when we figure things out better, there is a good chance that the demands of female selectivity and the social need for a high monogamous pairing rate can't find an acceptable equilibrium. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 07:32 PM |
| 22 | Women are just as redpilled as men.Women are more naturally red pilled, to a degree. They have more developed social skills in this area innately. And they had to pay more attention to men and mating dynamics than the other way around since men could kill them, or get them pregnant, etc. But female intuitive red pilling is not the same as being fully read in on evo psych or anything like that. They sort of know what they need to know, but there are tons of delusions, too. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 03:32 PM |
| 2 | AD HOC WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREADThere's a lot of evidence that while men want a lot more sexual novelty than men at the top end, women NEED more minimal sexual novelty after 3-7 years in order to be attracted enough to want sex with that man. The male sex drive is more robust that way, even though they also lose some attraction. The theory is that this natural drop in female libido with the same partner is timed to the period required to pair with a man, have a child, and raise it out of extreme dependence (which often include… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 03:30 PM |
| 1 | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseThe genders are more fragile than one another in different ways. One way that men are more fragile has to do with social structure. All the evidence shows that while men may be more individualistic than women, that individualism has to happen within the right kinds of social structure and socialization for men to behave and prosper. Women tend to find one another and then find meaning in life through their relationships. Men need more. Men suffer more in one parent homes, especially without fath… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 03:22 PM |
| 6 | Women are just as redpilled as men.Some people absolutely insist you must within a predefined box. Stop being so damn unique. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 03:01 PM |
| 1 | The gender war is not just an online thingOne of the deeper questions that is still open is whether the genders can remain sufficiently balanced in a high technology society where liberal enlightenment logic has started getting near its end point. We don't know. Maybe various factors conspire to eventually create enormous female advantage at the median. (For various reasons, top men will still win. They always win.) And if such a society cannot keep the genders sufficiently balanced, will that mean a need to change social structure away… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 02:59 PM |
| 2 | The gender war is not just an online thingI think their counterargument would be that in a Liberal Enlightenment system, the only equality we grant is of legal status, rights and opportunity. Sure, some extreme feminists said gender roles in the personal space would also disappear, but this isn't really something a liberal democratic society can do anything about either way. That's all individual stuff to be negotiated by individuals. If that means women have some advantages in the sexual marketplace, so be it; although given women stil… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 02:03 PM |
| 2 | Why is interpersonal chemistry never accounted for in conversations about attraction- only looks?It's not a great policy to constantly be shooting out of your league. For one, it tends to mean you have overprioritized something superficial like looks or status or whatever. Also, the rejection will wear you down, and if it doesn't, you are sort of training yourself to be a sociopath. And if every guy is doing it all the time, well, life is gonna get super annoying for women. It should be more about if you see some girl and she is out of your league, but you feel something extra for her that … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 01:59 PM |
| 3 | Why is interpersonal chemistry never accounted for in conversations about attraction- only looks?I think a lot of men today lack the social skills to really understand the nuance of when chemistry overcomes a looks mismatch. As a result, if you leave the door open to chemistry > looks, they will start wildly shooting out of their league and thinking that THIS TIME they have that magic chemistry with her. They will play a losing numbers game with women that are too good looking for them, hoping to win the chemistry lottery. But yes, people are amazingly weird and complex and varied. So witho… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 10:11 AM |
| 1 | The gender war is not just an online thingThe issue is that while feminism did a lot of good despite its foundations, these foundations were all kinds of wrong. Feminism was primarily based in an inaccurate understanding of human nature, and now the chickens are coming home to roost. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 09:58 AM |
| 1 | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseThat is indeed Dark if commonly believed. And even darker if such a feeling were true. It would mean that the genders are inherently in opposition and women's best interests are served by outdoing men, taking full control, and putting men in a safe, quarantined and controled space. It's basically a kind of feminist seperatism. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 08:46 AM |
| 1 | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseSorry. I don't follow. Are you suggesting that weak and underperforming men are ultimately in women's interests because men are so predatory by nature than women's safety is best achieved by outperforming men and taking control of society so as to finally be able to reign men and their predation in? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 08:44 AM |
| 1 | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseAs I just said in another response, that was sloppy wording on my part. Promiscuity levels, for either gender, are a complex topic all their own. Here, I was more just accepting the OP's premises for the sake of argument, and then asking them to speculate about WHY these things were happening. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 08:41 AM |
| 2 | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseHonestly, that was just me being sloppy. I was essentially positing, for the sake of argument, the OP's premises and then asking them to speculate about causation. 'Determined' is not a great choice of words, and 'promiscuous' begs the questions of 'relative to what standard'. These are all complex issues. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 08:39 AM |
| 1 | How come it is almost never considered that a guy can develop feelings for a woman he is friends with and that he just became friends to get into her pants?I understand the frustration of being in the trenches of the PPD gender war. But I long ago I pretty much went AWOL to preserve my own sanity. I don't spend much time worrying about the dumber arguments (and people) on all sides. Resource/Status hypergamy has, IMO, a more conscious and a more unconscious aspect. On the conscious side, for much of history women simply had less resources and status than men. So if a woman dated a man of equal status, she was often actually dating down in relative … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 08:34 AM |
| 3 | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseThere are interesting hypotheses about why women might continue to outperform men, but sadly this thread didnt get into much of the sophisticated arguments. Welcome to PPD, the land where nuance went to die. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/24 02:31 AM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseTechnology drives massively reduced infant mortality (and other forms), which puts a cap on family size or the population would explode. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 06:06 PM |
| 1 | How come it is almost never considered that a guy can develop feelings for a woman he is friends with and that he just became friends to get into her pants?I think a topic like hypergamy is a good example. It gets outright denied or then de-railed with bullshit like 'well men are hypergamous, too.' I think a lot of men get hypergamy wrong, and TRP goes way too far. But there is clearly something there that is being pointed at. It would be better if more women helped really refine what that is rather than gaslighting that there is nothing there. Or the submission thing. We could use better input from women on that. Submission is not the best word. B… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 05:39 PM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseThe mother role will never disappear. But even if we get replacement birthrates, we can't have huge families for every woman anymore or the population would explode given current mortality rates. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 04:50 PM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseBut if you are going to speculate intelligently about future trends, it is helpful to look into the causation as well. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 04:35 PM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseEngage seriously with the issue as if men were your brothers and sons, not some separate species. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 03:12 PM |
| 1 | Society is finished, terminal stageFair enough. I appreciate you making your priors fairly explicit, which many avoid doing. I meant that of course there is some theoretical level of male sexual exclusion that causes existential problems to a modern civilization. We are not other primates in so many ways. Of course one can never be 100% certain, but it seems unlikely a society would solve with say a 95% Incel rate. But what you are saying is that whatever the danger level is, women are nowhere near THAT selective and we won't get… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 01:51 PM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseI would think sensible women would ask 'why the hell is this happening' long before it comes to that, right? It seems almost axiomatically obvious from history that a society with high heterosexual pairing rates, stable relationships, and replacement TFR where men and women cooperate well is a healthy society. Obviously, ideally the pairing rate is not higher than it 'should' be based on whatever level of female sexual selectivity turns out to be 'normal' such that women are being forced to slee… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 01:15 PM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseThis is kinda dark. Do most women view most men as so inherently mediocre, unattractive and predatory that it would be OK to move on without them? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 01:07 PM |
| 4 | What benefits do you value most in a long term monogamous relationship / marriage?Do that for 2 min every morning and check back with us in a few months. Should be ready to play with the other inmates by then. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 01:01 PM |
| 15 | What benefits do you value most in a long term monogamous relationship / marriage?I'm sorry. You have exceeded the maximum mental health and emotional stability thresholds for this subreddit. We kindly ask that you refrain from posting here until you have become sufficiently deranged to contribute properly. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 12:50 PM |
| 1 | Society is finished, terminal stageThe issues posed by low pairing rates are on a continuum of severity. I don't agree with the OP that we are about to see civilizational collapse. I also think that it is normal and natural for there to be more sexually excluded men than women. This is basically what it means to say women are more sexually selective, and free enough to manifest that greater selectivity. But the devil is in the details. Just how selective will women turn out to be in a baseline, biological way as their material ne… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 12:43 PM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseSure, in terms of men having any special advantages due to physical strength, aggression or courage. Technology is also slowly eliminating the female role as mother. It won't go to zero, but with lower mortality rates, we can't have 3+ kids per woman or the population would explode. So why are women so innately advantaged in a situation where strength doesn't provide much advantage and women don't spend that much time doing hardcore childcare? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 12:36 PM |
| – | Men have already lost the gender war and it's bound to get worseYou can't really talk about the future of gender dynamics if you don't posit some underlying causation. Why is this happening? Why are men underperforming, both against women and historical male standards? Why are men checking out? Why are women's standards rising? Why are women determined to be so promiscuous? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 12:23 PM |
| 1 | Society is finished, terminal stageIt's not that binary. It isn't as if the change that is coming is akin to an asteroid wiping out all but a handful of people and starting again from caves. What we do influences what that change will look like, even if there is some collapse involved. I agree that broadly speaking the biggest issue is that we have almost no ability to control our technology usage. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 12:13 PM |
| 1 | Society is finished, terminal stageWinding back the clock isn't a solution. Can't really be done in general, though on some things, at some times, you can realize you took the wrong turn at a given fork and try to retrace some steps. But it isn't as if some coming change is this completely fixed and unalterable fact. We have SOME control over our destiny, though it is also important to not have hubris over how precisely we can steer such a complex ship as modern society. That doesn't mean we just take our hands entirely off the s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 11:55 AM |
| 1 | Society is finished, terminal stageI don't think either gender should be moving on from the other. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 11:39 AM |
| 1 | Society is finished, terminal stageThat is a truism along the lines of Keynes' famous line, "In the long run we are all dead." But that doesn't mean we don't try to do anything to steer the ship of civilization as best we can. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 11:33 AM |
| 1 | Society is finished, terminal stageThere is a sophisticated argument to be made about there needing to be more economic and protection need for a man in a woman's life to reign in female sexual selectivity so that the pairing rate is high enough. But I'm not sure that is the argument the OP is making. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 11:12 AM |
| 2 | Red Pill analysis of relationship power dynamics between men and women inevitably leads to supporting ‘traditionalism’ or ‘patriarchy’ as it only thing that can theoretically limit or destroy ‘womens power.’There seems to be a tension between the TRP belief that you should only be with a woman who has genuine desire for you, and the idea that the only way to reduce male sexlessness is to implement policies that restore female economic dependence on a male partner. Doesn't the latter belief up the pairing rate but also increase the number of marriages where the woman doesn't really desire the man? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 10:06 AM |
| – | standards don’t matterRight. But there is a kind of gray area here. How much pressure should one feel to try to truly adjust standards to realistic expectations? If not individually, then for each gender as a whole in terms of what society should be pushing. It's an open question how well society can function if pairing rates drop too low. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 09:48 AM |
| – | standards don’t matterI shame people for having no idea about their actual chances of landing someone who meets their standards. This is just general stupid person shaming, though. But I don't make the mistake many men do of thinking that women with unrealistic assessments of their chances will just lower those standards if they come to realize how little chance they have of landing such a man. No. Many would just opt out then. Fuck up when and if needed, and otherwise enjoy single life. Too many men assume women hav… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 08:36 AM |
| 2 | How come it is almost never considered that a guy can develop feelings for a woman he is friends with and that he just became friends to get into her pants?Seen some data on that. Interesting stuff, but so many potentially confounding variables. Were these friendships where both people were dating others? Or was it one-sided unrequited love until she suddenly changed her mind? Did she change it because she was won over by how much he loved her, or did the guy suddenly accomplish things and change in status? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 07:40 AM |
| 1 | [STUDY] There exists a positive correlation between being a bully and success in dating and sexual relationshipsAs I mentioned in another post, I delved more deeply into this. A problem was that I (and others perhaps) were only conceiving of Bullying in the more extreme and cliche ways, like the Jocks locking the hapless nerd in his locker while everyone, girls included, point and laugh. In today's culture, the social sanction for such extreme bullying might make it counterproductive due to the loss of a certain kind of status. But there is a wide array of bullying that would not generate such sanction an… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 07:32 AM |
| 3 | How come it is almost never considered that a guy can develop feelings for a woman he is friends with and that he just became friends to get into her pants?Ah, well it's a dance at the individual level. I don't expect anyone to be completely forthright, etc. But at the conceptual level, in higher level discussions, academia, etc. women need to really be more candid about the truth, without always having one eye looking at how men might weaponize any admissions as a way to rollback equality. If we get a better common narrative on these things at the higher levels, it will trickle down IMO. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 04:36 AM |
| 1 | How come it is almost never considered that a guy can develop feelings for a woman he is friends with and that he just became friends to get into her pants?Excellent point. Another reason why men need some refined form of TRP socialization to better understand how things work. Women need to get in on this, helping contribute to better male understanding of how things actually are. I get that women are afraid of losing gains made over the past few decades, but they have to stop worrying that accurate understanding of gender sexuality dynamics will undermine egalitarianism. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 03:52 AM |
| 2 | [STUDY] There exists a positive correlation between being a bully and success in dating and sexual relationshipsThat is definitely true. But what is trying to be isolated is whether bullying behaviors themselves increase your ability to attract a sexual partner. It's complex. What I had to remember is that not all bullying is the now cliche, over the top kind where you stuff some nerd into a locker while everyone laughs at him. Given current social mores, that probably works against a bully, lowering his status. But there are probably all sorts of less obvious bullying behaviors that do act as dominance d… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 03:49 AM |
| 9 | How come it is almost never considered that a guy can develop feelings for a woman he is friends with and that he just became friends to get into her pants?Yeah, while some friendzoned guys are what Gad Saad calls 'sneaky fuckers', i.e. betas who know they can't compete straight up, so are trying to use covert methods to get laid, the vast majority of these guys are decent. The main problem is the still present belief in men that you can 'win a girl over' by showing how much you love her, would be loyal, etc. Part of the reason young men believe that is that under certain conditions, this can work and even be decisive. But a lot of young men don't … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 01:01 AM |
| 1 | [STUDY] There exists a positive correlation between being a bully and success in dating and sexual relationshipsI read the study and they still couldn't rule out that bullying and increased sexual activity are not both results of some other variable, like higher aggression levels. Unclear to me that in today's day and age actually being seen as a bully makes you more sexually attractive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/01/24 12:19 AM |
| – | Daily Community Chat Megathreadumm...fuck. yeah. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 04:31 PM |
| 1 | Why are some women into 'bad boys'Do you think that the more domesticated and soft and soy boy the 'good guys' in a woman's field of vision get, the more attractive a 'bad' boy' becomes in contrast? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 02:53 PM |
| 1 | Why do so many female offenders get a boyfriend/husband easily?Mostly because men are less selective about mate choice. There's real no male / female symmetry here. I would wager that often the criminal woman is more physically attractive than the man would otherwise get. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 02:18 PM |
| 1 | Why are some women into 'bad boys'The long answer is complicated. The short answer is that female mate choice heuristics, adapted to vastly different conditions, often struggle in a more modern environment. And often 'bad boys' read as excitingly masculine to these misfiring heuristics. This can be particularly true if many or most of the other men a woman knows, domesticated by modernity, read as very beta or feminine to her mate choice heuristics. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 01:38 PM |
| 3 | What is the actual reason why men get shamed for having preferences?I don't believe any healthy society runs entirely on legalistic/contract law morality based entirely on consent. There are other ethical factors at play. I agree that telling a 40 year old man that desiring an 18 year old is unnatural or innately wrong is a mistake. This is a normal male instinct. However, it is perfectly fine to tell him that even if she consents, sex with her is likely bad for him and her. A real relationship is probably worse. In the end, these things are contextual and even … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 11:14 AM |
| 1 | How big of a concern would it be for you if your children/potential children reached adult age without any romantic success?I would be intervening WELL BEFORE high school. I would be very concerned. How I would intervene would depend on what the deficit was. Teaching them to efficiently maximize looks without becoming obsessed with such things is fairly simple, at least conceptually. The tricky part is if they did not conform to gendered expectations in personality. That is highly contextual, but in general, I do believe society should be encouraging people to conform to certain gendered expectations. The tricky part… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 09:35 AM |
| 6 | What is the actual reason why men get shamed for having preferences?I don't think the analogy with homosexuality works; men have other options they are attracted to other than just very young women. I agree that there are unfair politics involved though in what 'bad behavior' gets prioritized as more important to deal with. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 09:04 AM |
| 1 | Predictions for how the dating market will look 100yrs from now?TFR will stabilize at some point. The question is HOW. This is why women's groups should be at the forefront of the TFR discussion, not minimizing it as unimportant. There are better and worse solutions to TFR for women, and the worse ones are really ugly for everyone, but especially women. The same is true of male sexual and romantic exclusion. Given women's greater freedom, I expect a higher sustained level of technical inceldom and the like. This is probably natural and based on women's innat… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 06:18 AM |
| 1 | Women base most of their “preferences” on trends and what is popular, and are far more influenced by what other women think than even their own instincts - the whole 6 foot thing is a perfect exampleThis is a fascinating subject that is ill served by overly sweeping arguments. Yes, I would say that the literature supports the idea that female sexual preference--even at a raw desire level--is more impacted by culture and environment than male. But both are subject to such influence. But there is a biological factor at play that is hard to parse from nurture. It really is hard to get at what the respective contributions of nature and nurture are in a given woman's standards. It is true that m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 06:10 AM |
| 0 | Q4W: Who is the most romantically/sexually unsuccessful woman you know? What’s their personality like? Describe her.The most sexually unsuccessful men and women are incredibly ugly. The genders share that in common. Now, beyond that, things diverge. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 06:02 AM |
| 2 | What is the actual reason why men get shamed for having preferences?It's just inaccurate to conflate men's almost universal preference for very young women, on a purely superficial desire basis, with pedophilia. Yes. That is politics driven. OTOH, in 2024, a healthy culture should be trying to constrain this desire, and shame is part of how a culture does that. Men shouldn't be shamed for having the impulses, but they should be shamed for leaning into them in thought or behavior. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 05:57 AM |
| 0 | What is the actual reason why men get shamed for having preferences?We are sentient creatures with moral intuitions that will not perfectly map onto every male and female preference being considered equally valid. So you have to talk more specifically. Healthy cultures usually do 'work with the grain' of biology, but at times they go out of the way to do the exact opposite and try to constrain or suppress a given instinct. So it depends. Things become contextual. In 2024, I don't see much virtue in men leaning into their raw desire for exceptionally young women,… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 05:24 AM |
| 2 | I think that breadwinner women should not be shocked at their lackluster marriages.But in the big picture, I wouldn't say things are stable on the resource hypergamy front. Clearly, evolved female instincts are not targeting money exactly. There's a lot of culture going on here, too. The measures you suggest aren't really enough for women to feel protected if they ease off the career accelerator, esp. earlier on, which is when you want them to. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 05:19 AM |
| 1 | I think that breadwinner women should not be shocked at their lackluster marriages.I think you raise good issues. I'm just not generally down for the trolling, though to each their own. I think hypergamy is very real, though the manosphere has gone off the rails in their articulation of it. It is in fact very hard to perfectly articulate what the core, ingrained and biological, instincts are behind hypergamy. We can see that there is some plasticity in how it manifests in the actual, modern world. Current conditions are so new, evolutionarily speaking, that evolved female mate… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 04:38 AM |
| 2 | I think that breadwinner women should not be shocked at their lackluster marriages.It is true that, statistically speaking, female breadwinner marriages seem to be prone to a lot more issues. The OP's trolling and reasoning isn't really worth addressing, though. As for why these relationships often suffer, it is hard to parse causation from correlation. It's also hard to know if this is temporary and things will change as some perhaps vestigial cultural influences dissipate over time. I do think that any decent adult, man or woman, should do equal work in a relationship, gener… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/01/24 04:14 AM |
| 1 | What do you suppose influences hypergamy from in a systemic social context?Yeah, back in the period women's instincts were primarily adapted to there would have been a higher natural correlation in a given male between many of the traits women are attracted to, and less internal tensions in female mate choice. Thus their heuristics would have worked better, etc. But status itself would have been much less hierarchically divided, especially in terms of formal status levels. And as you go further backwards in time, before we were humans, from which we get some layers of … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/01/24 07:51 PM |
| 9 | What do you suppose influences hypergamy from in a systemic social context?I disagree that society influenced male sexuality that much. It may constrain male sexual behavior, but it hasn't had that much impact on actual male sexual preference. In fact, the literature generally shows that men's more robust and straight forward sexuality is significantly less impacted by culture and environment than women's. Female sexuality, on the other hand, has always been more complex and full of tensions, even contradictions. As the environment shifts ever further away from the one… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/01/24 10:13 AM |
| -1 | Why do women seem to get "the ick" over the most innocuous things these days?It's true that women are innately more selective. But the Devil is in the Details. HOW selective are they now? Same is true of men. They are also selective, just not as much as women. So the real question is whether women and men are becoming more sexually selective than their basic biology mandates due to the impact of modernity. If so, is this good or bad? If bad, can we undo the influences that are increasing pickiness' in particular, can you dial back those influences without undoing the res… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/01/24 04:54 AM |
| 3 | Most women want socially liberal men who are capable of engaging in “benevolent misogyny “.I don't think anyone has been able to perfectly articulate what hypergamy is, especially in terms of the actual evolved instincts behind it. I know a lot of the manosphere goes way too far and is too certain about their theories, many of which are kinda ugly. I'm also open to the idea that the term hypergamy itself is not the best one. But IMO the concept is clearly pointing at something very real in female psychology. There is a gender asymmetry here. And the woman 'looking up' to her mate in s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/01/24 04:34 AM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?This presumes that women buy into the idea that people have some sort of duty to pair up and have families, etc. Many women would say that 'so what if I don't find any of my achievable options attractive--guess I stay single then'. Now, it would be better if all women at least had a true understanding of their odds of finding the kind of mate they want. That is true. But it doesn't really change the underlying issue that women don't necessarily believe that they have to accept one of their actua… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/01/24 04:29 AM |
| 0 | What Things do You Do to Support the Opposite Sex?Didn't mean it as a gotcha question. Just legit curious. Thought that would be your answer, but wasn't sure. Could have been an angle where maybe it is more natural for the 'prey' gender to care about itself collectively than the 'predator' gender. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 08:00 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Yeah, in abstract, women deserve compensation to cover their greater reproductive burden. But there are no easy answers as to the best way to do it in practice. Shared custody seems fair, but it is also often a shit show in practice. Parents just can't get along. The shared custody often prevents both parents from moving on, including sometimes literally moving to another city for work or whatever. Or starting second family. Two homes and moving around and divided loyalty can wreck havoc on kids… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 07:51 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Maybe. But a lot of that has to do with the higher cost of reproduction for women. And in an amoral aggregate sense, regardless of who the parents are, children are a need and asset for all of society. They benefit men and women equally. So doesn't it seem fair that men transfer some wealth to women to even things out? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 07:26 PM |
| 3 | Those against the Red Pill, where should a man go for dating advice?Everyone knows what will make you more physically attractive. Up to each man to decide how much to prioritize those efforts. The real truth is that men should become the best version of themselves based on their own standards and beliefs. Act with women the way you do with anyone. Just be yourself, but unironically. Then look for women who want you. But accept their judgment and selectivity without bitterness, even if that means that the you the universe created turns out to not be what a lot of… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 07:22 PM |
| 2 | Those against the Red Pill, where should a man go for dating advice?I think at this point the various constituent parts of the manosphere have bled into one another. Yeah, some TRP guys are still entirely descriptive, but prescriptive elements have bled into TRP for sure. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 07:15 PM |
| 1 | What Things do You Do to Support the Opposite Sex?Would you say the same thing about supporting "women"? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 07:08 PM |
| – | CMV: The whole "traditional" lifestyle that is pushed by some red pillers looks unappealing and is counterproductive/contradictoryYeah. Something along those lines. I definitely don't have all the answers. But we need to touch grass here. The large majority of more typical women, whether they know it or not, will be happier with some more traditional gender roles around infant care IF we can find a way to make this work for them. This is what their biology wants, and if you look at the data, many women actually know this explicitly. But they want to have interesting work that pays as well as men per hour when they are not … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 07:04 PM |
| – | CMV: The whole "traditional" lifestyle that is pushed by some red pillers looks unappealing and is counterproductive/contradictoryI honestly think most mothers ultimately would be happier being off work and have primary care of their children during the critical first 3 years. The kids would be better off, too. It's just that we have created a context where the costs are too high. We can't have 3+ kids per woman of the population would explode. So if a woman has 3 children, that still means the vast majority of her adult life will not be about caring for an infant. But if she takes say 9 years off to care for 3 children wh… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 06:48 PM |
| – | CMV: The whole "traditional" lifestyle that is pushed by some red pillers looks unappealing and is counterproductive/contradictoryThese are complex issues. I'm not sure 'it’s not healthy for her or baby to spend 24/7 hours together'. That, in fact may be the healthiest thing, innately. But if that is driving mothers nuts, it probably means society is doing something wrong. It isn't the mothers' fault. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 06:41 PM |
| 1 | What Things do You Do to Support the Opposite Sex?I try to encourage truly honest and truthful conversation about both genders and gender dynamics, regardless of whether a particular truth is uncomfortable for men or women (or both). In the end, the truth is beneficial for both genders and the only way to deal with some modern gender issues is to clear away a lot of the political insanity surrounding gender. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 06:33 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?I get it. Just saying no actual right wing policy for removing rights. But I guess women don't trust them. May start with culture only, but could be rights afterwards. Sadly, the modern left is just insane right now. Not a lot of great options. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 06:15 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Yeah. Not any kind of legal removal of rights, but many conservatives would prefer more cultural enforcement of certain gendered roles and expectations. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 05:19 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Perhaps implicitly, I feel a lot of women believe they will never have truly equal rights until a combination of law, culture, technology and economic redistribution eliminate any biology-based disadvantages women have compared to men with respect to the acquisition of material wealth and power. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 05:17 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Even is we assume your argument, would you really want to increase the heterosexual pairing rate by having women NEED individual men more rather than WANT them more? Do you want to be in a marriage primarily because she needs your economic production? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 05:02 PM |
| 11 | Men who feel their wives see them as Beta MaleIn the West, very few couples marry without there having been some true desire at first. Maybe she had desired other men more in her past; but there was sufficient desire for the husband that having sex with him was viewed as a net positive. At first. With New Relationship Energy, novelty, and youth. Over time, that desire can go down, even to the point where sex is now a net negative for her. It's all very different with an arranged marriage. In theory, more modern arranged marriages are suppos… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 04:26 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?I wish a lot more posters understood it isn't sustainable. Sadly, it is not so 'of course' as it should be. But we have to better understand the TFR collapse before we can address it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 04:17 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Yes, but there are limits to this. It isn't a sustainable solution to a TFR that just freefalls forever. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 04:08 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Hmm...maybe value was not the best term as it implies some holistic, maybe even moral or spiritual valuation. I meant more 'importance to the material functioning of society'. I'm making amoral, materialist observations here, though of course there are other dimensions. I don't view a given man or woman as materially valuable based solely on whether they have kids or not. That said, society does need a stable birthrate one way or another. But that is an aggregate thing, and doesn't mean any give… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 03:19 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Generally, I agree, though I'm not quite sure there is perfect symmetry here. But I'm making an amoral point about heterosexual pairing rates. Women are more sexually selective than men, including more willing to wait things out if women don't like any of their achievable options. Men will choose to be with women at a higher natural pairing rate than women will choose to be with men if there is less and less actual need to be paired up. And I think this dynamic is more than about the higher male… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 03:04 PM |
| 1 | Why do women seem to get "the ick" over the most innocuous things these days?Well, just like many women will dress sexy and/or wear makeup even at home or when there is zero chance of seeing an actual individual man, being attractive to high value men in the abstract still sits at the bottom of this causation pyramid. But yes, a lot of it is mediated by the female social matrix. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 02:57 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Women still need men in aggregate almost as much as they used to. However, it is a bit of a tragedy of the commons thing. The value provided by men has been collectivized and distributed to everyone, men and women alike, without anyone actually needing an individual man in their life. This is a good thing on many levels, but only so long as women now voluntarily choose to be with the men who are willing to commit to them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 02:44 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?I don't even think we fully know what is going on now, much less what the future will bring. The data is muddy and sometimes contradictory. I also believe that with such a complex issue, we naturally can't see ways to address it yet because the public has not really begun to engage with the issue. Before solutions, if any, we need widespread and honest discourse at all levels of society. We have to put aside childish and utopian ideas about how human nature and culture work. We need to be real, … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 02:41 PM |
| – | The gender divide has become undeniable , can anything be done to solve this?Aside from abortion, which I don't view as a 'rights' issue even though I am generally pro-choice, which rights do mainstream conservatives want to take away from women? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 02:36 PM |
| 3 | Most women want socially liberal men who are capable of engaging in “benevolent misogyny “.Yeah, I have yet to find the ideal term either haha Accommodating? Deferential? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 01:45 PM |
| 9 | Most women want socially liberal men who are capable of engaging in “benevolent misogyny “.This is the true core of hypergamy. Not money or resources. Not even status. But being able to look up to her man with respect to some sort of worldly strength and competence. That said, this is the ideal. Without men having an artificial advantage in these areas like they used to, it is hard to pair all women up with men who are above them in these areas. The sorting mechanism just isn't that efficient. So I guess a lot of couples will have to learn to maximize what happiness they can still hav… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 10:51 AM |
| 2 | Most women want socially liberal men who are capable of engaging in “benevolent misogyny “.I basically agree with you. 'Submissive' is a loaded term nowadays and may do more harm than good. At any rate, whatever it means exactly, it is on a continuum in terms of degree; furthermore, we aren't in Roman times. A woman always has 50/50 voting right any time she chooses to (re)assert them, i.e. she can leave whenever she wants. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 10:47 AM |
| 1 | Men having lower standards of cleanliness is not a "flaw"Not sure about that. But I have seen a lot of men simply clean to their own standards and then let the wife do whatever else she needs to raise it to her own. This doesn't end well. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 05:35 AM |
| 4 | Why are so many men subservient to their wife/gf?Not sure how prevalent this is, but here is one dynamic I have noted. Equality isn't just about being formally equal partners. In the real world, you have to earn it in a way, as brutal as that may sound. I've seen a lot of men who don't fully embrace co-CEO of the household and relationship duties. They don't consider a lot of shit and they can act impulsively. So even if they aren't being passive, if their ideas are all poorly conceived or even outright stupid, she is going to have to override… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/24 05:31 AM |
| – | Would you care if your gf hung out with guys she’s slept with in the past?Not necessarily. This is all very contextual. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 06:47 PM |
| 7 | (Re-upload) What do y'all think of this excerpt about radicalisation in the manosphere?The problem with these types of discussions is that due to having very different prior assumptions about what is actually happening now, as well as what the future will likely bring, people end up arguing right past one another. And the muddy and sometimes conflicting data about the state of the current Sexual Marketplace (SMP) doesn't help clarify things much. Some people feel that at a population level, not much has really changed. The only real change is that sexually excluded men, who have a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 05:38 PM |
| 1 | Is there a Lizzo Paradox™ for males?Where body positivity comes from and what sustains it are interesting questions. But it is pretty clear from evo psych research, as well as just psychology in general and many other disciplines, that this is normal female behavior. Women evolved to formally and publicly pronounce loyalty to the female group and adherence to officially group supported values. Meanwhile, they compete covertly but ruthlessly, often not actually believing the party line. Women were too valuable to be beating the shi… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 09:46 AM |
| 12 | Is there a Lizzo Paradox™ for males?The men asking women to lower their standards tend to believe that those standards are artificially inflated somehow past any biology-induced minimum, and thus they can actually be genuinely lowered such that after that the woman will truly desire realistic options. This is quite possibly true, but what they get wrong is that if it is true, most of the inflation is cultural and environmental. You have to dial back those influences. Individual women can't easily just flip a switch. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 09:42 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadFair enough. There was a time when women I knew said they wanted to feel like the desired and hotter one in a relationship. This may have changed, or never been widely true. Or maybe women are dating hotter guys but convincing themselves that they are still the hotter one. Or nothing has changed at all or whatever. Many possibilities. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 07:47 AM |
| 3 | Men having lower standards of cleanliness is not a "flaw"You can't take contract law principals and the like into a human marriage and expect anything but disaster. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 07:45 AM |
| 1 | Men erroneously confuse being confident with being an asshole with the whole nice guy/asshole dichotomy and womenI fault people for avoiding the real conversation, for sure. But until we have more of that conversation, and get more evidence, solutions are premature. We are all prisoners of the culture and environment to some extent. So if women's minimum standards for finding a man attractive enough that sex isn't repellent to them are very high right now, there is only so much individual women can do to undo that. Right now, I do not want to consider asking them to pair with their realistic options if all… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 07:44 AM |
| 2 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadDo you think men and women who have significantly better looking partners have similar attitudes? I think most men just think she is hotter. But I'm curious if the women say that to themselves, or find a way to rationalize around that. One thing I have been a bit wrong on is the willingness of women to be with guys a lot hotter than themselves. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 05:44 AM |
| 1 | Daily Community Chat MegathreadOMFG that is the best. I'm Canadian but live overseas. Used to love Canadian Club whiskey and Canada Dry. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 05:42 AM |
| 8 | Men having lower standards of cleanliness is not a "flaw"Agree. In the end, the Devil is in the Details. But in general, if you have to spend a couple more hours a week cleaning for your partner to be truly comfortable at home, then what decent person wouldn't do that? But if the difference is a lot more than that, then yeah, you should have checked this before marrying. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 05:01 AM |
| 1 | What are some of your 'favorite' societal contradictions?This is a good one. There are ways to resolve the incoherence, but not when the arguments are made that way. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 04:55 AM |
| 1 | What are some of your 'favorite' societal contradictions?Kinda true. But complex comparison given different mate selection dynamics. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 04:55 AM |
| 1 | Why do men not tell other men to be vulnerable, AND, why do women tell men to be more vulnerable, en masse?It's all part of the historically unique adventure in egalitarianism, and distortions caused by people underestimating the power of evolved gender differences, a belief they feel facilitates egalitarianism. The truth is there are evolved differences in personality tendencies at the population level. Moreover, gender roles and expectations tended to encourage and solidify many of these as part of creating complementarity and the polarity needed for sexual attraction. There are ways for men to pro… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 04:11 AM |
| 1 | Men erroneously confuse being confident with being an asshole with the whole nice guy/asshole dichotomy and womenThe issue is that a lot of women feel that any of the past compromises involve a much greater erotic sacrifice on the part of women than of men. Perhaps this was balanced out by male sacrifices in other areas. Maybe it wasn't even true in the past, hard to say. But in today's hypersexualized world, the currency value of the erotic is at an all time high. What might have been a fair trade before would not be now at today's exchange rates. Moreover, men can't offer what they used to given technolo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 04:00 AM |
| 17 | Men having lower standards of cleanliness is not a "flaw"If living alone, you really, really do not want to know... | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 03:12 AM |
| 25 | Men having lower standards of cleanliness is not a "flaw"Unless a partner is getting into OCD territory, I believe the one with a lower floor just has to up their cleanliness standards. It's hard to drop your disgust level, etc. If you compromise, then the partner who needs it cleaner will spend their whole life uncomfortable in their own home. Why do that to someone you love? Or worse, they will just do the extra work to raise the cleanliness levels to what they need and resent you for it. Why do that to your relationship? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 03:07 AM |
| 1 | Men erroneously confuse being confident with being an asshole with the whole nice guy/asshole dichotomy and womenHmm....what should be done on the individual level by women in the field is complex. We are never free of our biology entirely, especially when it comes to attraction. But I do hold women accountable for hamstering bullshit at the conceptual level, when we are supposedly talking honestly about something in the abstract. If the conversations could be more honest on all sides at this level, then maybe better practical ideas about what to do in the field would filter down. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 02:56 AM |
| 3 | Telling small d men to be good at oral amd fingering is emasculatingThe OP's reasoning is all fucked up. But yes, telling a man to compensate for a small penis with skills in other areas is a bad message--perhaps emasculating. Not sure. But a bad message. Women have different preferences. I think a man should have the whole repertoire and be eager to fuck, munch and finger, and always willing to get better at any of it. But it is not a contest. You don't compensate for one act with the other. Men with smaller penises need to look for women who don't feel they ne… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 02:19 AM |
| 2 | “genuinely kind guy” is a rebrand of the “nice guy”I don't see it that way. I see it as many people became uncomfortable with the real topic at hand: the complex way that a truly kind personality can interact with female mate choice heuristics. So they side-tracked that conversation by bringing up that a lot of 'nice guys' are not actually very nice. This is true, though we can debate about what 'a lot means'. But this is a separate issue. So 'genuinely kind guy' is an attempt to return to and focus on the original question. That said, no, I do … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 02:12 AM |
| 1 | Men erroneously confuse being confident with being an asshole with the whole nice guy/asshole dichotomy and womenI don't usually have much interest in stuff on the individual level. More of an academic interest in gender and gender dynamics. But I do agree that a lot of female posters are not really forthcoming about this stuff, but one has to have some empathy as to why. And yeah, they should have some empathy for guys, etc. Shitty world sometimes. The value of pure kindness to the genders in terms of establishing the minimal level of sexual attraction is limited. This is true for both genders, but men's … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/01/24 02:08 AM |
| 0 | Men erroneously confuse being confident with being an asshole with the whole nice guy/asshole dichotomy and womenNo. The goal isn't to be maximally erotically stimulating. It's to get women and have good relationships. You can be genuinely decent, kind and 'nice' and still do that, at less cost. It's just harder. It's like the Light and Dark side of the Force. The Dark side is both easier and more potentially powerful. But it will destroy you in the end. The Light side can be powerful enough, without the cost. But the work is harder. You don't need to be super agreeable to be kind. Having an edge, being in… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/01/24 05:56 PM |
| 1 | Men erroneously confuse being confident with being an asshole with the whole nice guy/asshole dichotomy and womenYou're genuinely nice because that is the right thing to do. Period. There are ways to be that way and still be attractive. Whether it is MAXIMALLY attractive in a purely erotic sense can be debated, but doesn't really matter. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/01/24 02:45 PM |
| – | „Just go outside and look at couples, bro. Black/red pill is bs” so I did…Interesting work. It's hilarious that when studies are tossed out, a lot of female posters are all about their own lived experiences and anecdotes. Someone does their own informal study, and now they are all stats experts. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/01/24 01:20 PM |
| 3 | Men erroneously confuse being confident with being an asshole with the whole nice guy/asshole dichotomy and womenThere is no doubt that being genuinely kind is better for you and for your relationships. There is also no doubt that you can be more than sufficiently attractive if you are kind. Now, as to whether being an asshole can be sexier in some respects, that gets complex. It does depend on the woman in question, too. But let's remember that the pure hero Archetype is not usually the most erotic of female fantasies. The roguish hero is often more popular. The White Hat may be the male ideal (and even t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/01/24 08:26 AM |
| 2 | Why can't women take an L?Well, you can model smaller or more niche sexual marketplaces the same way as broader ones. But yes, your SMV will be different depending on which SMP you are thinking about. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 03:55 PM |
| 1 | Women wearing revealing clothingBeing attractive to men still plays a key role in the ultimate causation and direction of female adornment. But it is by no means a perfectly efficient process. Various trends go off the main track of male preference, here and there. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 02:20 PM |
| 4 | CMV: Most Red Pillers (TRP) are actually the most defeatist of all the "Pills"The manosphere is growing but also fragmenting. Many beliefs. Much of it is corrupt as hell, sure. But there are real issues behind it all. Hopefully, the current manosphere sort of dissipates and gets replaced by something better. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 01:51 PM |
| 4 | CMV: Most Red Pillers (TRP) are actually the most defeatist of all the "Pills"As are almost all things today, the manosphere (including TRP) is corrupted by many factors, including the need to make money off of clicks. But I don't think we get far focusing on the worst parts of things. Better to look at what might be driving the manosphere and the strongest forms of those arguments. Men are checking out for causes that are not fully understood. Women are destroying men in education, and this is steadily trickling down into the workplace and economic measures. Innate femal… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 01:48 PM |
| 4 | CMV: Most Red Pillers (TRP) are actually the most defeatist of all the "Pills"These things are tricky. Until you have some critical mass of believers, trying to change the world through your actions kinda is pissing in the wind. Also, there really are no obvious solutions to all of this. So spreading understanding of at least the diagnosis really is the first and possibly only step you can take right now. We need more brainpower focused on how to address the problem, I think, before we start championing specific policy measures. It is really delicate territory. In fact, w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 01:35 PM |
| 6 | CMV: Most Red Pillers (TRP) are actually the most defeatist of all the "Pills"I disagree. Virtually all healthy societies in the past understood that the group has an interest in individual mating choices. The personal really is, to some extent at least, political here. Now the balance between the group interest and personal autonomy is tricky and not obvious, IMO. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 01:31 PM |
| 6 | CMV: Most Red Pillers (TRP) are actually the most defeatist of all the "Pills"Until there is some sign of a broader movement, most people will live their life with the idea that their actions are not going to contribute to broad social change. They will do what they feel is right or in their interests or even in the interests of friends and family given the prevailing conditions. Depending on the person, their behavior may be very different or exactly the same as if a broader movement were afoot and they wanted to contribute to it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 01:23 PM |
| 8 | CMV: Most Red Pillers (TRP) are actually the most defeatist of all the "Pills"TRP is ostensibly non-prescriptive and purely descriptive: tools for the individual to use as they wish. However, most TRP content providers do have a prescriptive side. Typically, they do want to change things, but they also know that there is normally a pattern to such changes. They usually begin with changes to the consensus narrative, and many TRPers do do their part to encourage this change. But until the narrative swings, there is no point trying to change the system through individual act… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 12:43 PM |
| 2 | Change my mind: Men shouldn't settle for a woman past her primeI think it is far from clear what is happening in the SMP these days, especially on large scales rather than more corner cases in certain demographics. But yes, in the big picture, a large portion of the female population fucked a smaller number of guys they found truly desirable when women were in their 20s, and then later paired up with guys for the longer term who really got little sexual attention in their 20s, it would be an ugly thing. Not a healthy dynamic overall. However, even if the ab… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 06:02 AM |
| – | Question for RedPill about households where each spouse works full-timeI'm not. Just saying a lot of that kinda deletion happens lately. I get it. They trying to create some discipline in the sub, and sometimes the price of that is a nice thread. Annoys me too, but I also get it. Anyways, so far so good. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 04:43 AM |
| 1 | Why can't women take an L?Yeah. I dunno about this whole patriarchy thing. Men and women are innately different. If you get to the point where men and women are equalized at the very top, in terms of the people who control the levers of power and big money, women will be overwhelmingly doing better than men at the median. SMV is an excellent concept if used properly. It's part of a functional model of the sexual marketplace at the macro level. It basically represents what everybody knows exist: 'leagues'. But everybody s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 04:41 AM |
| 1 | Why can't women take an L?I dunno if I would frame it that way, but yes, in certain respects women are innately more covert than men due to evolution. Yes. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 04:37 AM |
| – | Why can't women take an L?What are the victory conditions, then? When can the lib fems give it the ol' George W. 'Mission Accomplished'? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 02:24 AM |
| – | Question for RedPill about households where each spouse works full-timeSure. But that still doesn't mean a man can work roughly the same work hours as his wife, but do way less housework than her because he makes more per hour, and not have her be bitter and resentful. Not how humans work. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/24 01:04 AM |
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