"Men have oppressed women throughout history."

DanteLivra · 2021-07-24T16:24:44+00:00

Rich men oppressed (who often were manipulated by rich women) everybody.

There was legal (social and physical) protection tailored specially for women, as long as they conformed. Women participated as much if not more in the indoctrination of other women. And just like men, those who didn't conform to the norms of society were pushed away and yes, in the medieval (or any time before the modern era) time, a woman living alone would be more likely to have a bad time.

Men had the same pressure to conform, along with some responsabilities, that gave them rights. Men were and still are expected to fend for themselves and still have some strength left to support more people. Men had rights at the cost of responsabilities. Women had privileges that could be taken away, but no responsabilities aside from marriage and family.

The statement "women were always oppressed in history" comes from a place of privilege and it ignores any facts and history concerning the very reality that our ancestors had to go trought.

I would much rather be a stay at home mom in the medieval era with my family in close proximity than die alone in a field somewhere for a war I don't even understand. Might just be my opinion, but there's an argument to be made on the oppression olympics that feminists started.

2021-07-24T18:10:17+00:00

99.99% of people were oppressed throughout history

thereslcjg2000 · 2021-07-24T14:03:17+00:00

Not really. Women were oppressed to an extent (as were men), but to blame “men” as a population is highly misleading. Only a few people had the power to significantly affect most peoples’ lives, and those people were generally men; but men as a population didn’t have much if any control of the status quo.

There’s also the important but often overlooked fact that prior to industrialization, life was a lot more difficult than it is now. Mortality rates were extremely high, and you could forget about searching for your passion because the biggest priority was for you and your species to stay alive. In the context of that world, I’d argue that gender roles were a necessary evil to keep the species from dying out. Gender roles aren’t necessary in this day and age, but that’s only because they got our species to the point of their obsolescence.

Title_IX_For_All · 2021-07-24T16:14:37+00:00

If women were oppressed throughout history, it begs the question as to why men didn't send them to die in wars or dangerous jobs like they did for men, or why they have historically imprisoned men at a far higher rate.

To name a few.

If you cherry-pick all the good things men had and all the bad things women had, it would seem like women were oppressed. But doing so does not paint an accurate picture...it just reveals what parts of the picture society cares about.

a-man-from-earth · 2021-07-24T10:13:26+00:00

No. It is pure and unadulterated misandry as well as historical revisionism.

CyclopeWarrior · 2021-07-24T22:08:15+00:00

A popular statement that ignores that this is a class and power issue, and not a gendered one. You just hear it a lot cause it's a way to try and demonize men and forget that behind every man in power there was a whole lot of women benefiting from his status.

Enzi42 · 2021-07-25T02:08:56+00:00

I don’t want to assume the gender identity of anyone, but I imagine by default there are a lot of men posting on this particular thread. With that in mind I have the following question/consideration for you to ponder over:

Those of you who are defending the idea of men as the ancient oppressors of women, have you thought about how this affects the image of men now? About the impact it has on the male gender in the eyes of women?

One of the cornerstones of feminism is this idea that we have bedeviled and crushed them under our collective boot since time immemorial. It affects the way women interact with us in a supremely negative way, to the point that some mothers have even become hostile to their own male children.

It turns some men who internalize this belief into self hating shells of what he should be.

That is why this accepted narrative should be questioned and picked at, so that if it is somehow dismantled then gender relations and more importantly men’s wellbeing can be improved.

Sorry I didn’t mean this to seem like an unhinged rant—it’s not. What I’m genuinely questioning is why any male would accept and go along with a narrative that hurts our kind and paints us as devils.

It seems that certain people here have embraced that mindset and I want to get a look at what they are thinking even if I vehemently disagree.

Phantombiceps · 2021-07-25T04:42:21+00:00

The statement is bullshit. Not because women were not oppressed or men were not oppressive, but because one sex can’t oppress another. Sexes are too different from nations or castes for the statement to make sense.

MapleSyrup612 · 2021-07-25T23:20:32+00:00

For most of history, your average person was a serf

UnHope20 · 2021-07-24T21:58:08+00:00

First question that comes to mind is which women and men?

If we are talking about the ancient Assyrians then life probably sucked for women, if we are talking about the Celts then I'm going to disagree.

Different cultures had different ideas about what gender was and how it was to be performed.

Personally, I prefer the word "Exploited" and yes men exploited women for thousands of years. Yes, women also exploited men for thousands of years.

NO we cannot take a chronocentric perspective on this topic.

Obviously in 2021 we understand that it's bad to deny people basic human rights. But people need to realize that they are evaluating the behavior of people who walked the earth thousands of years ago. The only reason why we can look back and say that stuff sucked was because we were able to advance to a stage where this could be possible.

Bear in mind that both sexes have unique needs that had to be met in order to survive. They were BOTH greatly limited in their capacity to choose their life trajectory.

Let's take the Dark Ages for example. You have no indoor plumbing, no electricity, no grocery stores, no TV, TikTok, or Xbox. No police or fire department to protect you. No library or schools to teach you (Save for the wealthy). There was no birth control, tampons or human resource jobs. None of that stuff was invented yet. So how were people going to survive like that?

If people honestly think that a woman or man could survive without a family then they are dead wrong.

Unfortunately, that meant that all parties needed to negotiate the terms of the arrangement called "Marriage" men needed to bring something to the table and women needed to bring something to the table.

In the case of western society this meant that women were subject to their husbands wishes, BUT.... The half that is often ignored is what life was like for men.

In Western society, a man was responsible for his families physical safety, he became responsible for all of his wife's debt and he was legally liable for any crime that she committed in addition to the task of protecting her honor. This basically means that he would challenge someone to a dual if they offended her or in someway dishonored her.

By having less say-so in her relationship with her husband, she also had little responsibility.

As a man, you are bringing in a dependant in the hopes that you can start a family with that person. Nonetheless, there was major risk associated with marriage for a guy back in the day.

So yes, if I was held legally responsible for another human being, I would expect some degree of authority as I'm not about to get punished for someone elses stupidity (Spouse not withstanding).

Personally, who cares about what happened 2000 years ago. I'm interested in today. I swear the best these people can do is reach back to a distant past in which had yet to even exist and leverage the awful events that took place as some means of acquiring victimhood status. It's pathetic.

Let's talk about the facts today.

This doesn't make that arrangement correct btw.

Simple_Sir_2855 · 2021-07-28T20:55:08+00:00

Cleopatra would probably disagree..

So would those onboard the Titanic, shouting "women and children first"

BUT I am willing to bet Amber Heard agrees..

This kind of broad statement does nothing to help todays young adults who have literally NEVER abused women and never plan to, but they do get accused endlessly of supporting "the patriarchy" simply for being male, despite having no clue on what "the patriarchy" actually is..

Algoresball · 2021-07-26T16:59:05+00:00

I don’t know. Let’s ask all the men who died in wars to protect their wives

Ree4md · 2021-07-24T09:42:08+00:00

Mostly, but it doesn't really apply now in my opinion. And to bring it up is just to raise an argument that's old and doesn't really apply now.

a-man-from-earth · 2021-07-24T18:04:18+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Chadster113 · 2021-07-24T11:50:40+00:00

It is mostly true. The didn’t have a right to vote until 1919. That’s relatively early in civilization. It’s stupid to think they haven’t been oppressed.

puck-penn · 2021-07-25T15:30:45+00:00

This has a lot of links to sources that seem right up your alley on this subject https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/iu2ebj/women_could_and_did_own_property_and_have_rights/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

griii2 · 2021-07-24T21:53:01+00:00

I hear your arguments, but I still believe throughout the history women were oppressed more than men. Most societies were patriarchal (in the original sense of the word) and women in given class had less options than men in the same situation. Be it the ability to study, to move freely, to perform trade, freedom of sexuality or choosing the partner, or just almost anything else. Emphasis on less options and same class, I am not saying there was a global conspiracy to enslave women or that noble women did not have it much better than any of her subjects.

I find the fact that some MRAs try to revise these historical facts deeply upsetting and detrimental to the MRA cause.

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