Petition to have Amber Heard removed as the L'Oreal Spokesperson

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No. Just no. I WISH Johnny Depp had decided to acuse her of domestic violence but now the statute of limitations has run out. She is a fucking abuser and most feminist know this. We’ve been abused and we’ve seen men be abused and just sit by, either because they were ashamed or because no one believed them. But as a good woman, fighting the good fight, this bitch needs to fall and the percentage of female abusers needs to be known.

I’ll tell a story I rarely tell. When my bf and I got together we got into an argument about rape. I asked him to leave and since he was driving and drinking, he couldn’t.

When the cops came, they tried to convince me that he had hit me, I told them that I just wanted him to leave. It was amazing how they were ready to crucify him because he had a girl lie before.

They literally tried their best to make me lie and say he hit me. Nuts

Edit: five years later, he is still my best friend and boyfriend and has never thought about laying hands on me

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The amount of copium and belligerence from people here who champion themselves advocates for equality, and the people who even have a passing familiarity with 3rd and 4th wave feminism are two distinct circle on a Venn Diagram judging from state of the vote tally of this thread.

Judging from this thread alone; you'd think that feminism is when men are made to suffer under the bootheel of women.

If this shallow and lazy narrative keeps getting perpetuated on this sub, you shouldn't be surprised when it will just be known as a cringy misogynistic cesspool.

because, yes any current explicitly feminist organization condemns female on male abuse, fucking duh.

No, not every scorned bitch claiming the protective mantle of "feminist", who shares her hate fantasy on an anonymous Internet forum, is in fact, and this might shock you, not a feminist. Nor does she speak for all feminists or women.

In the same vein I suspect not every regular visitor here, is primarily interested in the advocacy of legal and social gender equality. The fact this even seems to be controversial here is more telling than any Argument i could think of.

As a man, I also cringe at many attitudes here claiming to ostensibly speaking on my behalf.

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[–]ijustwannasaveshit -4 points-3 points-2 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

We should probably start by having it in the United States first. I'm 30 and never want to have children. When discussing it with any doctor I am essentially told I will change my mind. If I get pregnant and want an abortion it can be near impossible for me to get one. I would assume that not being able to control my own body would be important to me.

If your dick didn't work and the doctor who gave out dick working pills was 2 hours away and you had to meet with the doctor and watch videos about how your dick not working is your own fault and then also be told that using dick working pills would give you cancer and then had to wait 24 hours before you could go back to the doctor for them to finally give you your dick working pills wouldn't you feel like you lacked control over your own body? Wouldn't you wonder why you have to jump through so many hoops just so your dick can work? Now the dick pills are also 500 to 800 dollars and you don't make good money. Acting as if women have bodily autonomy in the United States is silly. Having to climb mountains and jump through hoops then be told, "bUt YoU dO hAvE aCcEsS" is highly infuriating at best and infantilizing at worst.

And I wonder how much power you assume feminists have that allow them to control what other countries do. Like all I can really do is talk about awareness. But I'm not in control of my government in a way that allows me to enact policy that would force other countries to do my bidding.

That would be like me telling you if you have such a problem with men not getting custody of their children why aren't you doing anything about it? I mean the courts are heavily run and controlled by men. Why can't you make that change?

If anyone wants to visit a sub that can talk about men's issues without bashing women I would suggest going to r/menslib. They also give a shit without feeling the need to be giant babies and blame women for all their problems.

Edit: I honestly thought this was a different subreddit when I clicked on it but I would have signed it anyway. Acting as though being a feminist means I can't criticize women is fucking ridiculous. You sound like the delusional chuds who call Biden a socialist.

[–]Thormourn 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ijustwannasaveshit -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I have not seen one example since all of her abuse came to light of feminists on reddit defending her. The thing is when people provide examples of others defending obviously condemnable things it is usually like one person with negative likes and everyone is saying they are garbage. And if you provide an example of it I would immediately say they were garbage people. That doesn't make me any more or less of a feminist.

I also think it is important for this situation for men who genuinely care about these issues to lead and have feminist women follow. Just like I wouldn't want men to lead the way when it comes to my uterus I don't want to lead the fight in situations like this. It is my job as an ally to listen and defend. I can't speak for issues pertaining to men being abused because I am not a man and I can't speak to those experiences.

That's why it would be somewhat silly to post this on a feminist sub. Those are to target inequalities women face not to condem their bad behavior. Just like I wouldn't post on this sub about how statistically men are more likely to commit and be jailed for violent crimes. What is there to gain? If there is a cultural issue that might cause men to be more violent then it is the duty of men to lead that fight with women fighting alongside and defending.

But on this sub it seems like there is a lot of blaming and not a lot of actual solutions being presented. We are all allowed to vent but it is what we do after we have dealt with our anger that gets results.

Edit: I would like to add that I actually showed a very good friend of mine that he was in an abusive relationship and I helped him escape it. The thing is he didn't even know that he was being emotionally abused. If this sub actually cared they would be discussing why there are men that don't even know abuse when it is happening. There would be threads about the warning signs of abusive relationships and how to help those in an abusive relationship get out of it. Instead there is a bunch of complaining about one woman. Use this as a teaching opportunity so that other men don't suffer abuse. Use this to show that even powerful men don't have the resources necessary to escape their abusers and fight for those things. But they seem to expect women once again do all the work. Women have been fighting for their rights for centuries and they can't always be the one to fix systemic issues. Like I said. I will fight and defend but I don't feel it is my place to lead.

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[–]pacmatt27 29 points30 points31 points 5 years ago (76 children) | Copy Link

Women have equal rights though. And they have more rights than men. Feminism is and always has been a female advocacy movement. I can see that as a necessity in past decades but I don't see why someone would identify with it now if they genuinely wanted equality.

It's becoming more and more clear that prominent feminists want women to feel weak and frightened, not powerful and strong. They want to make everything a victimisation and an oppression, to avoid becoming irrelevant. To take no responsibility and demand more benefits, to change men and do nothing... To become passive.

I'm 30 so I'm not a wee lad anymore either. I grew up seeing powerful women in my favourite films and not once did they claim to be oppressed and that the world change for them. They just strapped themselves into a mech, or picked up a shotgun, and shot the world in the face. I can't see Ellen Ripley crying and claiming she's oppressed.

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[–]Wichitorian 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The first things that come to mind are abortion, access to birth control (esp. surgical methods), pay equality (though granted that’s only solvable through parental leave and guarantee of return to positions after child birth because on paper women make as much as men).

At this point most of the issues that women are looking for legal protections on are issues that are uniquely female. Half of these issues already have some protections just not enough to change social norms or they’re half-assed as compared to some other countries or they’ve somehow become religious battles.

Feminism has always been about creating more equity, at this point we’ve achieved most of the larger legislative issues and some of the cultural ones that were standing in our way (in the US). Only recently (what are we on now “6th wave feminism”?) has this man-hating started to emerge and that was never really the point.

Edit: also, I think most women (esp. feminist women) would agree that Amber Heard is reprehensible and should be dragged though the ringer.

[–]pacmatt27 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The first things that come to mind are abortion

Why do you think access to abortion is a right you deserve? Many would dispute that. I wouldn't, personally, but that is a very complex issue and it's not about being a woman, it's about religious beliefs. Secondly there would be absolutely no equality in granting women the right to abortion without similar reproductive rights being granted to men. This is actually anti-equality without comparable male rights being granted also.

access to birth control (esp. surgical methods)

Not an inequality issue. Pay for it yourself like men have to.

pay equality (though granted that’s only solvable through parental leave and guarantee of return to positions after child birth because on paper women make as much as men).

Ok, so you already have pay equality and the vast majority of places have government mandated maternity leave which far exceeds paternity leave. Any further progress in that area would only widen the pre-existing inequality which favours women. Pay equality is an issue that has long been solved and, again, has exceeded its mandate, now favouring women in the workplace.

At this point most of the issues that women are looking for legal protections on are issues that are uniquely female.

What a shocker!

So far you've actually given me no examples of where women do not have equality with men. Could you answer the question I asked, please?

Feminism has always been about creating more equity,

No, it was a female advocacy group.

at this point we’ve achieved most of the larger legislative issues

So why don't you turn some of that focus towards male issues where there are gaping legislative inequalities?

Only recently (what are we on now “6th wave feminism”?) has this man-hating started to emerge and that was never really the point.

Just. Lol. That is total bullshit. Man-hating has been around since the inception of feminism.

[–]Wichitorian 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Even if the abortion issue is about religious beliefs there legally can’t and shouldn’t be laws banning it as we have a separation of church and state in the US. You could argue that there is a moral dilemma regarding ending life but what about cases of rape pregnancies, dangerous pregnancies where the mother will die, etc.

Regardless the real argument is that it withholds bodily autonomy from women, something that men absolutely and historically have owned (the only exceptions that come to mind are slaves and eunuchs).

I would say that men absolutely have more reproductive rights and access than women. Condoms and spermicides are available cheaply over the counter, women need prescriptions and medical procedures for BC (pills, implants, IUDs etc.) Vasectomies are easily obtainable for men of any age, which women can spend years fighting to find doctors who will perform tubal ligations or hysterectomies before they have the first kid (just look at r/ChildFree) or turn 35.

The parental leave issue is exactly that. There should be greater protections and extended parental leave for both genders. Moms and Dads both should be able to take 12wks+ off, paid, with the promise that they’ll come back to their same job at their same rate of pay. Also “vast majority of places” is not all of them.

I agree that legislation should be written in a non gendered way to protect everyone it could potentially apply to. I absolutely think that men need just as many legal protections as women do. The argument that I was making is that most men will never be pregnant or have to deal with the possibility of pregnancy. People have been manipulated through pregnancy and parenthood for millennia and we should be making it easier for people to choose for themselves when or where to become parents without legal threat.

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I really enjoyed your reply. Tbh, I somewhat anticipated a defensive emotional reply, and that's purely on the experience that, generally, most feminists I've met in the wild online who are questioned seem to get very triggered at reasonable questions.

I don't engage, just observe, but I wanted to share that my pov has expanded a little bit after reading the coolness of your reply. Thanks

Edit: I'd like to add while we're here that in my opinion feminism in its moder iteration is anti-male and not pro-female, and in general confuses and dis-empowers the women I know, shaming them into a conformity of victimization rather than empowering them to be the badass they are, whether that's behind a desk, the 20 yard line, or their child's bed.

To me, the emphasis on this movement is too focused on eaual outcome when it should be equal opportunity. I feel this generally for all people under the banner of civil rights and I think as long as we can become more honest about the pain others have from past inequality and the pain we ourselves have from that (male/female, black/white), we can avoid this issue becoming blemished in extremism. And if we can avoid that, I think we'll land somewhere that truly does have the best interest of everyone

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That's fun. What are you doing to eradicate toxic gender norms perpetrated by women? What are you doing to eradicate toxic behaviours perpetrated by women? Could you even tell me what those are, out of curiosity? Because no feminist I've ever asked has been able to.

Cos, and correct me if I'm wrong here, what it seems like you're doing is actually behaving like every agent in the world is somehow a representative of the patriarchy, hellbent on oppressing women. Films, games, television, science, technology, the law, even Terry the bus driver. Not only this, it also seems like feminism suggests that women (or, more specifically, women who agree with you) don't actually have to do anything to change this. All they have to do is tell men to change and then the men need to do whatever you say. The only problem with that is those rules are so unclear, convoluted and irrational that it's literally impossible to abide by them. So men are, wittingly or no, constantly subjecting women to micro-aggressions and toxicity and women are constantly trapped in a victim role but somehow powerful lionesses. What an appealing image "I can do no wrong and others hold me back from my true potential".

What on earth would the point of that be? Would it... Perhaps... Be to sell more books, get more funding from academic and social institutions and to remain relevant long after equality has been achieved by creating a false dichotomy of oppressed/oppressor? OMG IT WOULD.

Yeah, no thanks. Gender norms are actually pretty useful in certain instances. That's why gender dysphoria is increasing, as is the suicide and mental illness rate.

[–]TimmyChangaa 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]_meagan_ -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Dude... I dont even know where to start.

I've seen plenty of feminists writers talk about how the patriarchy is bad for both men and women.

Here's an article if you need

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kathycaprino/2018/01/25/renowned-therapist-explains-the-crushing-effects-of-patriarchy-on-men-and-women-today/?sh=59400fdc2161

It's actually a really good article.

Also, do you realise that when you say Toxic Femininity, you're saying Toxic Masculinity, because they are both mean the same thing. Both are harmful to both genders yet somehow Mens rights activists have found a way to make you believe we're against each other when really we're working for the same goal.

Also, in my feminists circles we hold each other accountable for toxic behaviour all the time. Like putting other women down for falling into traditional gender roles or hurting men or body shaming or whatever.

Also, yes society is ingrained with misogyny. I'm not going to pretend like every female in my life hasn't experienced misogyny just because you're uncomfortable it makes your gender look bad. It's not victimisation, it's the truth.

Also if you're implying feminism is a marketing ploy... you're beyond saving bro. Like I deadass don't even know what to say to that.

Also gender norms are the reason men don't come forward to police when they're sexually assaulted. They're also the reason men aren't believed by police about spousal abuse.

Gender roles can be bad for males and females.

That's what feminists have been saying this whole time. If you spend you time watching Ben Shapiro owns feminist videos, you're not getting a real idea of what real feminism is.

Do your research, read bell hooks, read Kate bornstein, read roxane gray.

Get rid of this outdated idea of the feminazi and maybe we can talk again in a few years. Meanwhile, I'm done here bro.

[–]pacmatt27 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

So nothing? They've done nothing except claim men are responsible for men's suffering. Fuck off.

Also, in my feminists circles we hold each other accountable for toxic behaviour all the time. Like putting other women down for falling into traditional gender roles or hurting men or body shaming or whatever.

So you shame each other for not toeing the line? Sounds like brainwashing.

Also, yes society is ingrained with misogyny.

No it isn't.

Also if you're implying feminism is a marketing ploy

I'm not implying it. I'm directly stating it. So take your deadass and fuck it right off.

Also gender norms are the reason men don't come forward to police when they're sexually assaulted.

Yeah and sometimes gender norms are helpful.

That's what feminists have been saying this whole time. If you spend you time watching Ben Shapiro owns feminist videos, you're not getting a real idea of what real feminism is.

Ben Shapiro is a cunt. I know what feminism is thanks.

Do your research, read bell hooks, read Kate bornstein, read roxane gray.

Done it. Don't need literature recommendations from an ignorant, patronising turd, ta.

Get rid of this outdated idea of the feminazi and maybe we can talk again in a few years. Meanwhile, I'm done here bro.

Nope. Please stick to your words and actually fuck off.

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You may not consider them feminists but they constitute the power and backbone of your movement. They're the ones who influence legal and social change. If you say you're a feminist, you admit complicity with those individuals. Also, how can you be a feminist without subscribing to patriarchy theory, exactly, and all that it entails?

And the thing is, you say they're not real feminists, but they are. They hold the ideals feminism has always held. At its heart, feminism is a female advocacy movement and has no interest in genuine equality, it never did. It has always operated on the assumption that men hold power and use it to oppress women. Over the years it has added "and sometimes men" but done nothing about that. It's a throwaway acknowledgement to appear egalitarian rather than any genuine interest.

[–]ForgottenForest265 -4 points-3 points-2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]pacmatt27 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So then all catholics should account for the rape of priests

Lol. Yes, absolutely. They are members of an organisation that has permitted and facilitated the rape of children, are you serious? Of course they should be held accountable. Were they aware? Did they do anything to stop it? If not, why not? These are absolutely questions we should be asking and they should absolutely bear some responsibility for it.

All Christians should account for white nationalists and terrorists who attack people for their beliefs.

Yes. Their belief structure radicalises certain, vulnerable individuals, they are responsible.

We are all a part of groups that have members which twist our beliefs in different ways.

Then hold those members accountable. Police, punish and eject them where necessary. You, as a member of feminism, are responsible for your group members. If you do not stop them, you will be held responsible for their actions. If you lack the power to stop them, leave, otherwise you are complicit.

Many of us condemn them but apparently that isn't enough for you.

Fucking right it's not. Is one priest condemning his colleagues for raping kids enough for you? Or should they maybe get rid of the priests who rape kids? HMM. I WONDER.

[–]Input_output_error -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

First off a general note to all the subs regulars, stop downvoting comments like these! You might not agree with them, but there is no need to downvote people that want to engage this sub in civil discussion.

I believe that there are basically two different kinds of feminists, there are the 'true feminist' and there are the 'feminists by association'. The 'true feminists' are the ones that hate men, subscribe to the patriarchy theory and are generally speaking not very nice people. The 'feminists by association' are the people who are led to believe that feminism is a force that fights for equality between the sexes.

The 'true believers' are the ones that go nuts on feminist theory, they believe that men are inherently bad and build their whole 'patriarchy theory' around this idea. They are the usual suspects when you see #KAM trending or hear people talking about how 'critical race theory' somehow isn't racist. Often they are described as 'the radical left' while they really don't have anything to do with the political left.

The 'feminists by association' are people who believe that equality between the sexes is a good thing, but are fooled into believing that feminism stands for actual equality between genders. There is a big difference between "equality between the sexes" and "equality for women". The first implies that men and women should have equal rights, the latter can imply that women should have equal rights to men, but that nothing changes on the male side of things. The latter one is the one that feminism has been using for over a century. None of the societal problems brought up by feminism thus far has had anything to do with equality for men.

The so called feminist academia are all part of the 'true feminist' they are the ones writing papers that defy any and all reality. These 'papers' often solely rely on the conclusion rather then the method of coming to the conclusion. This results in widespread misuse of statistics and often attribute a vague correlation as causation.

This is problematic because the vast majority of people do not believe that it is a good thing that men can't be abused by women. Yet idea's like these get support on a political level because it is a feminist theory, and they are for equality, right? But because of feminist theory we do have the Duluth model in place. This is the idiocy we are faced with when we deem the 'true feminist' words as something we should listen to. The only reason this can happen is because the 'feminist by association' refuse to address these problems within their group.

If you are interested you should look around in this sub. I have to say, some of the post are really cringe.. But there are a lot of good posts too! There is no ban hammer for people who do not agree with the sub, everyone if free to voice their opinion as long as things stay civil.

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I'm not sure if you are aware, but there are many different sub-groups under the feminism umbrella. Most feminists are not extreme and do not hate men. Unfortunately it is usually the more extreme (and rare) feminists that take the limelight.

I am a feminist and I stand against abuse of any kind, doesn't matter who is the abuser and who is the abused.

Many feminists take up the cause of domestic abuse because simply put, thousands of women are killed every year by their intimate partners. That doesn't mean a man cannot be killed in this way, it is just more rare.

Think of it like the Black Lives Matter movement. As a white person, I support the BLM movement because I know that 99% of people involved are not anti-white, they are just trying to solve massive injustices that they face everyday (which may be invisible to many white people). Also, similarly, it has to be BLM and not ALM because black people are getting targetted in greater numbers by the judicial system and we must draw attention to this major inequity in our society. It's called feminism and not everyonism for the same reasons.

And yes, I believe there are things that men struggle with more in our society. As a woman I may not see or understand the struggles, but I believe men that they are real. A movement focusing on these inequities should take place. However there are also things that still keep women down and feminists will continue to focus on those issues. Can't you afford me the same respect and belief that I have given you?

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It’s hard for to talk in a lot of those subs because it has become such a polarized place but I can try for sure. I think we (feminists, I guess reading the comments, perhaps it’s the wrong term to continue to use) but we need to realize that we have quite a few male allies and to quit disrespecting that fact. This particular case is more close to my heart as I’ve been abused and also had three of my male friends accused of abuse when it was the other way around. One of them falsely imprisoned, even if only for a weekend, and the case dropped after spending thousands of dollars, but this was all based on a woman who lied and was believed without any proof. He now has this on his permanent record. It’s crazy.

Edit: female abusers are real and I believe this needs to be looked at more closely and more equally in the eyes of the law. We’re just not there yet.

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You are uneducated. Research the many subsects of femenism. Not all are for the proliferation of women above men but purely search for equality (like the originally established movement).

It’s frequently used to divide groups. Just as the narrative of men’s rights activism is being rolled out in the medium as evil/rapeapologiest proud boy etc.

Why divide? There’s a profit to be made when We blame other minorities groups for our situations. Please see blaming Mexico for lack of jobs (largest killer of jobs is automation and unavoidable).

This is why The GOP always make abortion such a hot top issue. They don’t actually give a fuck what anyone does. It’s a distraction of what they are actually doing with financial institutes. Deregulation of wall street and environmental protections.

Distract and profit.

It’s alway why we are so polarized in America right

[–]pacmatt27 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I am not. I have done. Those sub-sections who are for genuine equality are complete non-entities as far as political and social change are concerned.

What is frequently used to divide groups? Calling a spade a spade? I don't think so. If we are going to be subjected to laws and social policies, fought for by feminism, which put men at a significant disadvantage, I will ask why feminism is not interested in equality.

Why divide? What a stupid question. Feminism is literally about division and conflict between genders. I am asking why someone would subscribe to a divisive ideology instead of pursuing genuine equality. The rest of what you said is totally irrelevant. I am not American, I am not interested in Mexican immigrants or job automation, the GOP or Wall Street and I am not right-wing.

[–]retrofuturenyc -4 points-3 points-2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I replied to someone else in this thread when I should have replied to you. I am hearing what you are saying. I think I addressed more of what you were saying in that comment. Particularly about how I don’t think that all types of femenism are searching for equality despite the recent trends. And I actually likely agree with you in many regards about subscribing to an ideology that searches for equality. I just don’t think it’s accurate to describe all sects of femenism to identify/agree with current trends or tropes of today of deporting men. I brought yup the other issues because I believe femenism is currently used to as another tool to bring down the working class and cause us to fight amongst each other. The cause has been hijacked as a tool to be devicive much more then achieving a goal of equality.

Disregarding the effects of what is happening. Do we believe the goal of femenism women is to be “above men” or equal to men? I don’t think so but I very well could be wrong but I think part of the problem is the lack of cohesiveness in identity and lumping everything into a singular word instead of spending the time to separate the goal of the causes. And if your goal is to break down feminism for the bullshit word that everyone “identifies with” the best way is to educate ourselves in the differences to identify the posers from the opportunists that wear the word feminist like it’s a band they listen to and part of their ever developed MySpace personality.

If the goal is equality which is our goal too!!. Then there needs to be the perception of inclusion and a goal of understanding. With the goal the logic will prevail, I just don’t think that the smaller minority of men’s rights activists will be heard if we improperly vilify every feminist instead of working to show that we are actually also trying to reach equality as well. There are unavoidable nuances to gender that exhibits and finding equality without destroying either gender is the goal. Am I wrong?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]retrofuturenyc -4 points-3 points-2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Name an achievement men’s rights activism has achieved in the last 30 years. Anyone can use a statement is simply a distraction from what the other person is trying to say. Like I just did above.

I honestly am furtherest thing from someone who’s fully educated in femenism and typically ostracize myself within groups for calling it out on how’s its being capitalized on and very misguided and call it out for the bullshit easy gimmick to recruit women for their lack of happiness with themselves as it is. Go ahead and try and get through the craft reboot. Had it on as background sound and had to turn it off for how blatant it is to the point of demonizing men that advocate for themselves.

What I was trying to say is there are many generations of women that identify with the term femnisim in its many forms and quantifying the singular term as the enemy is short cited and counter productive to the conversation of men’s rights. The lack of effectiveness of femenism in the last 30 years is a good example. Exclusiveness is not a way to move a cause forward vs inclusiveness.

And by the many subsects of femenism this is a rough idea of what I was referring to... wiki timeline of femenismI’d say that men of this sub would probably most identify with the “difference feminism movement” formed in the 80s (that plenty of people still largely identified with today) not all feminist solely identify with the trending interpretation of it. And the best way to call out a fake femenism/someone riding the train of their own opportunism is to be educated yourself and ask them what type of femenism they are... if they can’t differentiate then they can’t articulate and obviously one could point out that if they sent for equality but simply for the proliferation of woman over man then how on earth could they shame us for being against their ideology when it simply replace inequality with inequality that is disadvantages for me.

All that said, this is merely my opinion and welcome for someone to educate me more/show me my flaws logic. I do not know much but from my small understand what I outline above seems like a beneficial understanding/perspective for the cause men’s rights and equality. Deviciv statements I sont think educate us as a group and I think that’s what we all come here for.

[+]superfunpack -7 points-6 points-5 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]pacmatt27 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Feminism is not man hating

That's an interesting point of view, considering all of the terminology and theory is set up to paint men as the enemy and women as the heroes (or victims, they seem quite confused on whether women are powerful or weak). The clue is in the name, feminism. For more examples see: patriarchy, toxic masculinity, rape culture, mansplaining/manspreading.

BLM also has a very large white-hating component but whatever, this isn't about race.

To conflate feminism with man hate, or misandry, exhibits a fundamental misunderstanding of what woman have fought for.

No, it doesn't. They have fought for protections and privileges which men are denied, legal rights which men do not have, unfair treatment across a wide range of contexts and give little to no attention to male issues (when they aren't actively suppressing those issues). There is nothing equal about feminism and you're delusional if you think that's what feminism seeks.

[–]ForgottenForest265 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]pacmatt27 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Why not start with reproductive rights? Women have access to state-provided birth control in many countries, they have the right to terminate pregnancies, give children up for adoption and face no consequences, they can commit paternity fraud with no repercussions or refuse to notify the father. Men have absolutely no such rights.

Until recently women had the right to automatically be granted custody of children. Since the change they still receive preferential treatment in custody disputes (though admittedly not a legal right anymore). Women receive preferential treatment in all legal matters, while we're on the subject. Less likely to be arrested, charged, found guilty and sentenced for comparable crimes, shorter sentences when they are.

Women in certain countries are automatically assumed to be the victim in domestic violence disputes, despite evidence clearly demonstrating that is not representative of actuality.

I could go on for a while but I've got a stats project to do, so will that be sufficient for the time being?

So do I. I just disagree that feminism is a force for good in any way. I would argue that it has achieved its purpose, exceeded its purpose and now serves to advance inequalities in favour of women.

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Well, when I 1st heard about feminism I was at a party in Italy, quite drunk, and the girl I fancied talked about it. From her description I was instantly a feminist too, but then I came to the Internet, researched about it and left quite disgusted. Confronted her with my recently acquired knowledge, now I had information about the topics she pushed and could argue with her without it being just a hunch. It happens that she couldn't answer any of my questions and she left quite irritated, called me "toxic just like every other men".

It was the 1st but not the last time I've been shot down by feminists and called toxic male when I actually agree that there shouldn't be any gender difference when it comes to law, opportunity, rights and responsabilities. I also never hit anyone unprovoked, both men or women. Although I've been in fights because unfortunately I had to defend myself, none of them included any women. Today I also got banned from r/feminism after 1 or 2 comments in some topics that got popular enough to appear in my feed. I don't understand how I can be banned from a "pro equality" movement by actually being that person. Just like I don't understand why I am called toxic just because I have counter arguments for popular feminist arguments that are backed up with studies I've read.

After some reflexion I'm just against feminism. I don't view feminism as an equality movement. I feel oppressed by feminists. Even though I agree on being together towards equality and I believe it is something only achievable by cooperation with all human beings.

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The L'Oreal cosmetics company tweeted a few months ago when Heard was named their spokesperson:

"Hollywood actress @AmberHeard highlights that a woman's inner beauty is what we should value the most. ‘I would love to see women be able to be powerful, smart, opinioned, and taken seriously, even if they are beautiful. Even more, I would love to see women held to different standards, other than the superficial ones we are held to," the caption reads underneath Heard's post.

Their fight against "superficial standards" manifests as saying "attractive women should be taken seriously", while the company completely ignores women who aren't conventionally attractive.

They're literally fighting for wealthy, white models to have their opinions taken more seriously. This is their hill to die on.

I wouldn't hold of much hope that they give a rats ass about her being a bed shitting abuser.

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Title	Petition to have Amber Heard removed as the L'Oreal Spokesperson
Author	sj20442
Upvotes	25260
Comments	463
Date	November 7, 2020 2:23 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/jprmy5/petition_to_have_amber_heard_removed_as_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/petition-to-have-amber-heard-removed-as-the-loreal.1068241 https://theredarchive.com/post/1068241

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