I feel like it takes a special kind of ignorance to not see that male gender expectations are massively harmful

TisIChenoir · 2022-06-18T06:09:23+00:00

Just take dating for example.

I always scoff at people who say "women make effort to get prepared, so it's men's burden to ask her out", reinforcing outdated traditional roles.

I don't know about you, but I already didn't have much success when I was well clothed, hairs done, and perfumed, I'm pretty sure it would have been worse if I went to a date wearing 10 days dirty clothes, smelt like I just went through the garbage, and with lice in my hair and beard. The idea that women are the only gender getting presnentable for a date is laughable.

Also, body shaming. I always hear that "women's body have always been scrutinized and criticized more than men's". Right. Because being a fat dude is a sure way to be adored and not dehumanized by women. I mean, I'm fat, so I guess I'll have my flock of sex-crazed women at my feet any day now. Any day. Now.

Also, muscle tone, cock size, beard and hair or lack thereof, your size, etc...are absolutely not judged on a man. Women (and gay men) will never discriminate or mock you for any of that. Or virgin-shame you (which is a fucking downward spiral, because you ate not attractive, don't get have a relationship, are shamed for it lose confidence, etc..)

Never. We, men, live perfect lives free of expectation and stigmatization.

BloomingBrains · 2022-06-18T03:59:02+00:00

I don't think its really ignorance. More like a special kind of apathy towards fellow human beings. And if it is ignorance, its a willful ignorance.

Trying to start a conversation with most people about some problem a man is having is completely fruitless. They always approach it from the perspective of what you're doing wrong. You must be an idiot, or a creep, or a coward, etc. The idpol crowd loves to bandy about how gaslighting is such a problem when people tell women their problems are their own fault, even if they actually are. But as soon as a man has problem that is exactly what they do. Its such a non-starter.

AlecMaiz0 · 2022-06-18T07:34:31+00:00

Also the narrative that gender roles are enforced on men by other men is such a croak of shit. First, men seem to understand between themselves how crushing the male role feels, so if a guy lets himself go for a moment, most men seem to understand & "give him a pass". Like there’s almost this side eyed glance between men in that moment were we all think "nah it’s okay we get it". While most women, even the supposedly progressive ones, are absolutely ruthless if you somehow break out of "the act", even if just a moment. But what bothers me the most is not the fact that a lot of women are the gender roles enforcers they claim to be fighting, but how COMPLETELY BLIND they are to how they’re the primary gatekeepers of gender roles. Almost everyday, on social media, I’ll see a woman making fun of a man for being bothered about something, or god forbid, believe himself to be the victim of something, "Awwwh are the little boys hurt🥺" "oooh no what about the men😭" "If you like men just say so💅🏳️‍🌈" & in the same thread deflect any attempts by men to talk about their issues by mentioning how it’s "men doing it to other men". Basically figure it out yourselves, which in itself is a huge expectation always put on men. Men + Problem = Do something about it if you want it fixed, Women + Problem = Oh no, everybody has to do their part to come to their help, silence is violence.

P.S. : English isn’t my first language so sorry if my sentence structure is weird. I’ll add some examples to make myself more clear.

A couple weeks ago there was this huge trend on TikTok of practically all straight women : mocking their boyfriends sexuality/manhood for… having a friend?? They’ll make sure to lecture men about how them having no friend causes women to have more emotional labour to do though. https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNYFqMGt/

Again trying to emasculate men for.. taking pictures of themselves?? How many times have you guys heard women say that most men are ugly or gross because they just don’t care about their appearance. Absolutely no-self-awareness later, they’ll mock them for posting pics online when they feel cute. https://twitter.com/_xlysn/status/1536882514295332864?s=21&t=4nOogwRfzalBmLI4lLbV8Q

Original Tweet about a course for women about how to ride dick Lol. No mention of men at all, but of course it’s Twitter, so somebody had to QT with a "men are trash" type tweet : It’s not women who need sex classes it’s men, since you know, they think so highly of themselves & that their dicks makes them automatic gods in bed (LOL I can guarantee you their are way more men who are unnecessarily anxious about their performance in bed than men who think they’re Casanova’s just because their men). But stop and really think about it. If a video went viral on Twitter showing men in a how to properly thrust class. Would people be "alright these guys are trying to get better, help their women get off, good on them I guess, Or would it just be a orgy of jokes about losers, incels who’ve never been near a women having to pay to learn how to have sex🤣🤣🤣🤣? Which would be more likely uh? https://twitter.com/lordebarrington/status/1536762154757521409?s=21&t=4nOogwRfzalBmLI4lLbV8Q

Cunari · 2022-06-18T03:08:08+00:00

You’d hope that women entering the workforce would result in trickle down benefits. But still some things like part time work are acceptable for women but stigmatized for men. Women are also more likely to have another source of insurance.

fleethead · 2022-06-18T02:56:37+00:00

It’s pretty discouraging to realise that the ‘empathy industry’ and public influence of feminists is an ignorant and malevolent force. Like realising you’re all alone at a busy party.

Agreeable-Raspberry5 · 2022-06-18T07:23:54+00:00

This has been bothering me since I found a reference to something called 'hegemonic masculinity' which seems to mean controlling men's behaviour to ensure they don't deviate from the norm. Trouble with the term as I can see is that it's either victim-blaming - so e.g. blame older men for not seeking medical help because 'hegemonic masculinity', rather than bothering to encourage them to do so - or ignores that controlling people's behaviour is done _by_ men and women _to_ men and women.

ThatQueerWerewolf · 2022-06-18T12:48:52+00:00

What really gets me is the victim blaming.

Women get to complain about "society" causing problems even though they make up half of society. But if we try to talk about how lonely it is to be male, how we struggle to find the same close companionships or struggle to live up to expectations, it's always suggested that we did this to ourselves.

Interesting_Doubt_17 · 2022-06-18T08:58:15+00:00

Or the fact that some people (especially 'FDS types') try to do some sort of mental gymnastics and find justifications as to why gender roles for men are actually good but gender roles for women are actually bad

EDIT: typos

ExMuzzy · 2022-06-18T12:03:50+00:00

100%, whenever I see someone talk about men not opening up about their feeling, I always notice that they ignore the root cause for those feelings. People aren’t eager for men to lose their traditional gender roles as it benefits society.

politicsthrowaway230 · 2022-06-18T11:20:52+00:00

You forget, it's men enforcing these expectations on other men, so this is a problem men have to deal with.

/s - it's projection that people think this type of thing is addressed to women instead of everyone guilty of it (which is plenty of people from any gender)

FightHateWithLove · 2022-06-18T18:30:52+00:00

We talk all day about how the expectations placed on women are harmful and have held women back, but argue the same for men and you're suddenly considered a reactionary?

It seems obvious to me that all the elements in society that tell women and girls they have to be beautiful to have self worth, also tell men they have to demonstrate power in order to be valued.

But the way "Toxic Masculinity" is used puts the responsibility entirely on men and boys, as if they spontaneously decide to demonstrate being powerful... just because.

RhinoNomad · 2022-06-19T00:27:09+00:00

It's not ignorance. It's the mindset of "keep what benefits me".

Many traditionalist are either apathetic or openly aspirational towards traditonal gender roles for a multitude of reasons, but I think the two most clear are:

Past gender roles establish purpose for individuals and this is an inherently good thing (no matter the sacrifice in individual liberty, or overall life satisfaction)
Past gender roles benefit me

You see men and women support these roles for both of these reasons, however, I think the first is more prevalent in men because with a decrease in economic opportunity for most men, there is a resurgences of nostalgia for a mythical time of prosperity.

Valoxity-_- · 2022-06-20T06:04:44+00:00

Willfull ignorance they know they just dont care.

genkernels · 2022-06-20T20:06:39+00:00

They see it, but the cult is quite clear that it's caused by Patriarchy. And you know the way to deal with the patriarchy is to fight male power and enforce male benevolence...

Title	I feel like it takes a special kind of ignorance to not see that male gender expectations are massively harmful
Author	Sorry-Difference5942
Upvotes	148
Comments	36
Date	June 18, 2022 2:41 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/vewijb/i_feel_like_it_takes_a_special_kind_of_ignorance/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/i-feel-like-it-takes-a-special-kind-of-ignorance.1121042 https://theredarchive.com/post/1121042

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