Why do feminists reject the notion of the gender wage gap being a myth?

dejour · 2013-11-07T21:44:42+00:00

I have two main reasons:

1) Feminists believe that the choices women make aren't really their choices at all. Women suffer from false consciousness. If women were free like men, they'd choose to work more hours, choose riskier jobs, choose STEM fields. So even if the wage gap is due to women's choices, women are oppressed into making those choices.

2) Feminism is like a cult. They've been told to believe certain things over and over, and the wage gap is one of those key things. Women get paid much less than men for doing the same job. If the wage gap isn't true, then they have to question everything they believe about gender relations. They are so emotionally invested in feminism that it is much too painful to ask these questions. So it's simpler to just deny and plug their ears.

As an example, consider Leon Festinger's work with cognitive dissonance and a cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Festinger#When_Prophecy_Fails

"The group studied a small apocalyptic cult led by Dorothy Martin (under the pseudonym Marian Keech in the book), a suburban housewife. Martin claimed to have received messages from "the Guardians," a group of superior beings from another planet. The messages puportedly said that a flood would destroy the world on December 21. The three psychologists and several more assistants joined the group. The team observed the group firsthand for months before and after the predicted apocalypse. Many of the group members quit their jobs and disposed of their possessions in preparation for the apocalypse. When doomsday came and went, Martin claimed that the world had been spared because of the "force of Good and light" that the group members had spread throughout the world. Rather than abandoning their discredited beliefs, group members adhered to them even more strongly and began proselytizing with fervor. Festinger and his co-authors concluded that the following conditions lead to increased conviction in beliefs following disconfirmation:

The belief must be held with deep conviction and be relevant to the believer's actions or behavior.
The belief must have produced actions that are difficult to undo.
The belief must be sufficiently specific and concerned with the real world such that it can be clearly disconfirmed.
The disconfirmatory evidence must be recognized by the believer.
The believer must have social support from other believers."

For most active feminists, I believe those conditions largely apply.

Sharou · 2013-11-07T22:48:45+00:00

Honestly, I think some feminists have simply become addicted to the notion of being a victim. It's an easy way to feel self-righteous. When you are the victim you can never be wrong (in their world). The more victimized you are the more right you are and the less anyone is allowed to question you. Also it gives you a nice and "valid" excuse for misandry.

Something like that...

xXCptCoolXx · 2013-11-07T20:53:33+00:00

Because of a machine that feeds victim complex and ignores facts.

Regardless of how reality actually is if something can be spun to feed into the victim narrative it will be, even if it is dubious, contested, or an outright lie.

mydark · 2013-11-07T21:03:13+00:00

I think because feminists recognize on a subconscious level that they are full of shit and if they admit to one single instance of them being wrong it will cause the whole house of cards to fall.

thehumungus · 2013-11-08T02:42:32+00:00

Because it's a really complex problem that doesn't have any easy explanations, so you can always make up stories to explain the wage gap.

Also it's convenient for their ideology.

So basically the same reason MRA's ignore the fact that even if the wage average is affected by a lot of non-sexism factors, there could still be sexism factors creating a (smaller) wage gap. Or that something like "less women hold high-skilled jobs" doesn't mean that sexism isn't part of the reason those women don't hold those jobs.

bunker_man · 2013-11-08T03:29:50+00:00

Because if someone admits that one of the few core things that justify their presence is not an actual objective injustice, then it threatens their justification for existing?

natethesnake32 · 2013-11-08T04:07:49+00:00

The wage gap is a core "argument" that feminists use to support their claim that the patriarchy exists or ever existed. If men and women really were paid different amounts for the same work, who could deny the presence of systemic sexism? It is a convenient argument that any rational person would see as blatantly unfair if true.

Ted8367 · 2013-11-07T21:48:29+00:00

Why do feminists reject the notion of the gender wage gap being a myth?

Because it works for them. It's a useful weapon in their propaganda fight for influence and resources. They are more interested in that than they are in acknowledging the truth.

Chivalry13 · 2013-11-07T23:42:25+00:00

Because it does exist, but only for higher tier jobs like surgeons and such. At the basic levels of employment, there is none. I have met women who have records of a bias based on gender, which is terrible.

However, there is not quite as large a gap as certain groups claim there to be.

Pecanpig · 2013-11-07T22:48:33+00:00

Because they believe it to be true, but they know nothing either way.

DavidByron · 2013-11-07T23:09:03+00:00

The wage gap is a conspiracy theory -- a deliberate lie -- put about by feminists as a means to characterise men as evil assholes and a threat to women.

Feminists know it's a lie. They have always known it is a lie. The point is that it is a very useful lie for spreading hatred and telling both men and women that men are complete pieces of shit.

Obviously it's a gravy train for feminists. The last thing they want is for people to catch on that it's bullshit.

rightsbot · 2013-11-07T20:50:18+00:00

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nihilist_nancy · 2013-11-08T02:27:29+00:00

Why would they? What would be the benefit in it for them?

I can't understand why you'd presume a movement that has no problem manipulating statistics cares anything about the truth (or for that matter claims to be about equality and fights vehemently against it).

fact_check_bot · 2013-11-08T02:59:16+00:00

People still say that vaccines give people autism.

2013-11-08T04:43:37+00:00

If you can convince a group of people that the wealth of others was not earned but bestowed by some unfair conspiracy, then they will be more amenable to the idea of taking that wealth by force. If Feminists can convince young women that men don't really deserve the money they earn because it was given to them by the Patriarchy, then those young women will more likely support appropriating that money through courts, laws, and regulations, and spending it on programs that benefit women.

Number357 · 2013-11-08T06:21:52+00:00

Feminists hung their hat on the wage gap for 20 years. "Women make 78% if what men make for doing the same job" was associated with feminism more than any other phrase throughout the nineties and early 2000s. Equal Pay Day is still a huge event for feminists. If they just admitted that they lied about the whole thing... well, it would undermine their little hate movement. It might also cause people to question what else they've lied about (such as DV or rape statistics), further undermining their cause.

I would like to point out, thanks largely to the efforts of MRAs in calling out their BS, they have begun shying away from direct lying. Instead of flat out lying with "women earn 78% of what men earn for doing equal work," many feminists are starting to just say "Women earn 78% of what men earn, and that's not right, we need equal pay for equal work." Technically correct, and just relying on the implication that follows 20 years of lying to get their message across. Though, as NOW proves, some feminists still enjoy good ol' fashioned lying.

guywithaccount · 2013-11-08T18:21:40+00:00

Two reasons.

First, because it's an article of faith.

Second, because it is rhetorically and politically advantageous to women to appear to be victims so that feminists can wring concessions from society in the furtherance of perceived justice.

Ara854 · 2013-11-12T17:54:12+00:00

Not all do.

Super_delicious · 2013-11-07T22:18:56+00:00

Radfems actually accept it's myth.

Title	Why do feminists reject the notion of the gender wage gap being a myth?
Author	wwwppp777
Upvotes	32
Comments	44
Date	November 7, 2013 8:49 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1q4kyz/why_do_feminists_reject_the_notion_of_the_gender/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-do-feminists-reject-the-notion-of-the-gender.1159368 https://theredarchive.com/post/1159368

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