What do you believe is driving the male loneliness pandemic?

TisIChenoir · 2023-05-19T07:43:58+00:00

Oof, though question.

Economic tension, the fact that people have to work indecent hours to make ends meet...

I also think the dating world is a hellscape and that doesn't help.

Online dating have allowed already successful people to become even more successful (so, a few men and quite a lot of women), and with the exponential growth of the available dating pool (and the fact that someone in France can potentially hook up with someone in Sweden) has created an illusion of abundance.

Which means that the unsuccessful (so a vast majority of men, and a few women) are being left in the dust, because if you thing you can have access to 10 thousands exceptional dudes, one swipe away, why would you settle for the average guy?

And it heavily impacts men, because it's men that have to be the pursuer, and a lot of women have developed this idea that they deserve the best, because they never had to engage, at all.

That's why you have women saying that being with a man that's less than 6ft tall, wins less than 100k a years, or stuff like that, is "settling". That's something I hear a lot of women, "they don't have to settle", but not a lot from men. I don't know a single man who'd say that being with an average girl is "to settle".

That speaks also of the laundry list of criterias most women seeks in a man.

So, all in all, you have women who think they deserve the best of the best, regardless of what they bring to the table. And most men aren't the best of the best. I'm not dunking on them, I'm fat from being the best of the best too.

Also, there's a lot of shaming going toward men in our societies. For being men, for being responsible for all the ill in the world (the PATRIARCHY), and when it comes to dating, for engaging women the improper way.

Something that was on my mind for years, is that we're propping up women all the time, and seldom give an encouraging word to men. Yet men are expected to be the ones acting. In a just world, we'd be propping up the ones we ask to act, not the ones that can mostly just wait until they are acted upon.

And I know the retort, "it's not easy for women too, they have to isolate the wheat from the chaff", but I am not convinced by this argument, for 2 reasons :

It's much easier to find a pearl when you have thousands of options than when you have one. So, maybe a woman who dates 50 dudes a year will have a hard time finding the right one, but a dude who dates one girl a year will have it 50 times harder (because, and that's a hard pill to swallow, not all women are perfect beings, literal gift from god itself. Some are horrible human beings).
Ultimately, in our dating culture, women are the ones having to choose. So, if they pick one bad apple, that's bad luck. If they continue to pick bad apple, they may benefit from changing their selection process, instead of saying all apples are bad.

So, yeah, Tl;dr, dating culture is hell on earth, and it heavily disfavors average men.

Due-Lie-8710 · 2023-05-19T07:46:48+00:00

Economic isolation ,the drive to promote an individualistic culture and the extreme policing of men and male spaces by feminists

No-Knowledge-8867 · 2023-05-19T09:28:36+00:00

I think it's multifaceted, and I think all those you have mentioned have certainly played a role. I think men should also seek to create and hold onto male only spaces. There has been a push to remove male only spaces. I think male only spaces have been painted as brewing toxic masculinity. I don't think we should just stand back and watch these spaces disappear.

hotpotato138 · 2023-05-19T12:42:22+00:00

Systemic misandry.

prettyflyforajed1 · 2023-05-19T07:30:35+00:00

That men are being attacked and their values undermined and told that they are the problem with society? Men have lost their place and their purpose and not only have they lost it, told that it was wrong that they ever lived the way they did and that they should be ashamed of themselves and their brothers and all men. BUT it is not good enough if you say, ok, let’s reverse roles, I’ll be a stay at home parent, occupy that role and you can go out and provide because then you’re worthless. You need to occupy both roles, be a provider, a role model, bring home to the bacon but then be an ally, be the ever present father.

TL;DR: a rant about why men feel undervalued and lonely.

Tahoeclown · 2023-05-19T12:59:11+00:00

What are men responsible for? Everything.

Everyone else? Nothing.

Kinda makes them not want to participate. Thats a pretty good clip though. Kudos to CNN.

Asriel-SIU · 2023-05-19T07:29:08+00:00

I personaly believe that capitaism might play a role: rising wealth inequality, longer working hours,

To me, it is obvious that capitalism plays a role in this. This friend crisis is also a crisis of purpose for men. Capitalism is devoid of purpose beyond greed (wealth accumulation). Everything is pricier everywhere in the West (western democracies, not just the US), and wages do not keep up. The job market sucks, working culture is toxic. Our current generation will be poorer than the previous one. There is simply no hope or incentive to keep going. 7% of the male working age population doesn't work according to Nicholas Eberstadt.

Add to that the isolation that internet facilitates for young men, and they just lose any incentive to go out, make friends and romantic relationships. Porn is the non-optimal yet infinitely cheaper option to dating and relationships. Video games give men the illusion of purpose, and they're fun, unlike life. Video games give men self-esteem, that society and feminism has taken from them.

Feminism affects sensitive men the most, and is ignored by the men who are the origins of social movements like #MeToo. You can argue that you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs. Well, feminism just broke the good eggs, but women are still eating the rotten ones. When sensitive men hear that they're a source of trouble, evil and all that stuff, it's no wonder they want to isolate themselves even more. They feel worthless, and they maintain themselves through drugs and addictions like those mentioned above.

All that is happening to men and society, with the social network (the real one, not social media) of society crumbling because, even though more men are isolating themselves, society doesn't suffer from it, all that, is synonymous with the experiment of the behavioral sink.

Men will isolate themselves, become asexual (lack any drive to get out there and find relationships, even friendships), women will also isolate themselves, and society will die out, slowly. Capitalism would have to release its yoke on people for stuff to start improving, but capitalism is driven by greed, so it will never do that.

Sir_vendetta · 2023-05-19T09:14:54+00:00

Various factors.

Covid pandemic, all the lockdowns and restrictions made it hard for men to socialise and date.
financial pressure, poor wages and increasing cost of living.
Social media's relentless attack on men, makes most men feel inadequate or not good enough.

OnenutFellow · 2023-05-19T15:33:05+00:00

I just wish people would even acknowledge this is a problem, or even real. This is going to have major consequences if it continues to be ignored.

shit-zen-giggles · 2023-05-19T09:10:18+00:00

Hm, let's see...

upend all male spaces because 'smash teh patriarcheeey'.

deride and degrade men and masculinity in all media all the time.

make all social programs and mental health institutions female only in personell, practise and theory.

destroy the nuclear family via no fault divorce and divorce laws that ignore hypergamy (and thus unequal income and work activity).

keep all of the above up for decades and then wonder why men are checking out

🤦🏻‍♂️

LoganCaleSalad · 2023-05-19T13:15:21+00:00

I was going to write a novella in this section but looks like nearly every point I wanted to make was already stated emphatically by others. I however don't share the doom & gloom assessment of some people here.

Yes it's gonna get worse before it gets better but with political movements like democratic socialism gaining traction, as the boomer generation dies I think the younger generations that are far more aware of these things & are already showing more interest in being politically active will supplant the current government of rich old white men & actively effect change that will slowly cause the redistribution of wealth. Nothing happens in this country quickly it changes in decades not a scant few years like it should.

Even I get pessimistic sometimes on here & fall to the doomsayers but honestly I think this is just the 60s replaying itself. We will get back to a time of sociopolitical peace & prosperity again it just gonna take another 30+ years to do it.

We're already seeing an almost mass rejection of feminism by half of all women. Only 48% of millennial/zoomer women still ascribe to feminist label. 45% of same demographic millennial/zoomer women believe feminism has gone too far & is actively hurting men. We also see a growing number of women starting channels to advocate for men. Admittedly most of these channels are older centrist liberal/conservative women that have had their epiphanies & realize they've been sold lies or have seen their brothers, uncles, best friends, or sons struggle enough & just refuse to stay silent anymore. MRM/Manosphere is growing & with women starting to join the side of true equality with a focus on positive pragmatic political change a corner is starting to be turned in my opinion. I think there is reason to be optimistic. It'll be long time before we see substantive change but I'm hearted & believe that I will live to see it.

zaph239 · 2023-05-19T15:44:58+00:00

Houellebecq, the French author, figured this out 30 years ago and at the same time diagnosed one of the problems with the modern left. Read his first three books, Whatever, Atomised and Platform. Everyone one of them is about male loneliness and he places the blame firmly at the door of the social and sexual revolution of the 1960's and 70's.

He skewers the contradiction at the heart of the modern left. Pointing out that the same leftwing voices that oppose neo-liberalism and absolute free markets when it comes to economics. Support the same things when it comes to sex and sexual relations.

In many ways this isn't hard to understand. Conservatives tend to be older people who are winners economically, keen to protect the value of their assets and less impacted by free market reforms. Hence their support for free markets.

The left tends to be a movement of the young, hence their support for free sexual markets and their blindness to the damage they cause. If you are desirable you simply cannot understand the world of those that aren't.

One of the myths of sexual liberation is it benefits all men. It benefits the handsome, the tall, extroverts and those with the gifts to attract women. It drives other men to the sidelines of society, leaving them isolated and unwanted.

It is a massive taboo to say what I have just said. The modern left's response is to tell heterosexual men they have no right to sex or relationships. That they should turn their natural sex drives off. Which once again shows the hypocrisy of the modern left because it is the same stance, they rightfully oppose, when it comes to gay men and women.

The left opposes attempt to reprogram gay men and women to be straight. Viewing such efforts as futile and immoral. Yet the modern left tells heterosexual men to simply turn off their sex drives and be satisfied with a celibate life.

The above is also why attempts to tackle male loneliness have simply failed. Men without sex lives and relationships are not going to find what they need with the company of other men. Men are competitive by nature, which isn't always a bad thing but it does mean that any attempts to fix male isolation by encourage male friendship are doomed to fail.

Most here with disagree with the above, many will say I don't even have the right to express such views. Those people will try to the same tried failed solutions to male loneliness and then act baffled, as they fail over and over again.

benscrolling · 2023-05-19T17:35:33+00:00

I would estimate a few key factors are responsible for most of the issue.

Electronics - The advent of personal computers and online information has provided unprecedented access to education, entertainment, even career paths that no longer require in-person interaction. Put simply, we have eliminated a huge amount of formerly mandatory social engagement.
Social Media - The human mind is only programmed to maintain a few close friendships, and then a handful of more distant ones. Thanks to social media, however, we have become overburdened with access to people, interfering with our normal social adaptation. We have effectively replaced real, healthy relationships with media icons and followers.
Bad News - Government, media, and other businesses profit from the stress and distress of the citizenry. This is highly damaging to the mental and emotional health of everyone, including men. This has also created a schism of idealism, with everyone passionate about different solutions, and social media providing polarizing echo chambers to further the social divide.
Economic instability - People can no longer simply work, get paid, and retire. This has added to the burden of stress as well as having a harmful effect on leisure time.
Monetization - Rooted in the above, many women and some men have discovered that they can put social interaction behind a paywall, taking advantage of the socially starved for financial gain.
Dating - Dating apps have skewed access to men and women in a way that exacerbates amorous inequality. Feminism has diminished the value of men in relationships. Negative media has fed women a false perception of every man being a rapist or murderer, be it past, present, or future. This means that very few men are "worth it" to women anymore.

Acrobatic_Computer · 2023-05-19T13:51:51+00:00

The biggest one is probably a broader social atomization as a whole, but specific to men are general suspicion of men (people are less friendly/view you as more of a potential risk), lack of male spaces, the rise of video games (and within video games erasure of community and friend-finding incentives and systems, playing games is lonelier than in the past).

International_Crew89 · 2023-05-20T01:28:38+00:00

Aside from the economic factors and the femenistic socialization factors affecting specifically male-female relationships, I'd say there's a very general, and not necessarily gendered culture of fear right now around socialization. I can't point out any specific evidence, it just feels like everyone right now is paranoid of making mistakes, so instead we're all pulling back from friendships/friendliness. Maybe it's our media? Maybe it's because we're all becoming more intolerant of folks who don't share 99% of our own beliefs/lifestyles/outlooks/politics (we do seem to be living in a time of extreme political and spiritual polarization). I get the sense there are probably a lot of factors at play here.

Man_of_culture_112 · 2023-05-19T13:07:05+00:00

Neoliberalism

Vegetable_Ad1732 · 2023-05-20T03:49:18+00:00

I think women have a lot to do with male socialization. Given that women have made dating toxic, many men have opted out of romantic relationships. Thus male socialization suffers.

Present_League9106 · 2023-05-20T01:26:34+00:00

I just watched something from the Daily Wire. Now I'm watching something from CNN. Boy does media suck in this country. I don't know what to think of Galloway. On one hand I appreciate him talking about this. On another hand, I was immediately turned off by him for saying that the "natural order of things" was for the minority of men to have the "majority of mating opportunities". I don't know where he gets this idea, but this seems patently untrue. We aren't chimps. So I almost wrote him off completely.

I think male loneliness is a little more complicated than simply male dating complications. To encompass it all: we've outsourced all our interactions to be filtered through online sources. I used to go to the bar to talk about society and politics. That became too risky. We've isolated ourselves through social media into our own little echo chambers. I have a friend who only really talks to people at work or through video games. Neither of those really sustain our need to socialize. They make for a nice band aid.

As for dating: the obvious problem would be dating apps and Galloway does a decent job of highlighting the problems. I always am a little hesitant when I catch a whiff of the word "hypergamy", but viable dating partners on dating apps do seem to be in short supply there and I can't help but feel like women are extra picky.

tzaanthor · 2023-05-19T19:05:44+00:00

I agree with your assessment.

monkey_gamer · 2023-05-20T01:53:52+00:00

There is a loneliness epidemic in general, and males have their own painful flavour of it.

Tbh, I don’t know why. I can look at some of the surface level factors, like capitalism, gender roles, bad friend and dating environment. But the deeper factors elude me.

Title	What do you believe is driving the male loneliness pandemic?
Author	John_righter
Upvotes	84
Comments	35
Date	May 18, 2023 11:59 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/13lf4gs/what_do_you_believe_is_driving_the_male/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/what-do-you-believe-is-driving-the-male-loneliness.1219728 https://theredarchive.com/post/1219728

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