Are they aware they are abusing women?

AceArguments · 2023-06-10T22:26:27+00:00

They are abusing women and they know it, they justify it under the belief that women are not humans. They're objects to these men.

I used to debunk every point they would bring up. I have all the counterarguments and there are even more answers online. Except for one problem, they created a circular reasoning system to self-justify every point they make one way or another. They think they're being 'logical' when in actuality, they've created a just-so story for everything.

A lot of these guys criticize other people for not 'logically' interacting with their argument and instead insulting them. The insult is the better response. When you try and 'logically' interact with them, you're playing their game. They've gotten you to participate in their madness.

Don't ever let these guys win. Shut up em down and insult them. Don't play their games. Always insult them. We need to stop sympathizing with abusers.

GlassOfSkimMilf · 2023-06-10T14:29:26+00:00

Having been around these guys for wwaayy too long and having actual professionals walk me through the recovery treatment of healing from their abusive bullshit, here are the things I've been told that may be going on in their minds:

1 - Dissonance of believing they're not abusive but 'being forced' to be like this to even get pussy 'because there are not other options available' (which is bullshit). To calm the dissonance, they have to make a decision on where they stand, so hamstering over how 'it's not really affecting her that badly (which is does actually hurt her brain, which can then hurt her career or other things in her life) is how they can calm that dissonance. Coupled with ego dings, more often than not they'll blame their victim.

2 - Justification through trying to internalize their moral righteousness 'because women are bad, mmmkay' (hence the need for plastering posts about only women's bad behaviours (which also strategically use "contextomy") and how men have a 'right to her body', 'she's bad so she deserves this', "women don't know what they want" so it's their 'duty to tell/lead her', 'women are manipulative', 'women are hypergamous', women have a 'child-like mind', etc. Dehumanization is mostly required for this mental process. Note how very rarely they speak of men's shortcomings (which actually hurt men's growth in the long run).

3 - Mental Illness/Lack of Empathy is a main cause because then they quite literally have a mental blindspot that others have and can see/behave from that they don't have. Some literally cannot see their bad behaviours in their 'minds eye' and/or lack a conscience to tell them that hurting others is bad. These would be the same ones that likely end up in jail, prison, being exposed later (like the PUA coaches who literally got kicked out of countries or killed themselves), etc.

4 - Making women 'temporary' makes them blind to their behaviours because they often cannot see the fallout that the women will then have to go through (mental health issues, literal breakdowns, job loss, etc.); if the woman gets mad and tries to hold him accountable, she's just the "crazy ex". They're blind by default even if they were mentally well enough to see the affects of their bad behaviours because women are only 'passing through' in their minds ("she's not yours, it's just your turn").

5 - Intentional misinterpretation of data, signs of the affects of the trauma, reframing of her behaviours to always be bad or manipulative, etc. By doing this, they make the man 'read' her poorly (hence why a lot of autistic guys got pulled in and duped because they already have issues with reading people and socializing anyways). Specific symptoms of the trauma the 'program' is intentionally reframed incorrectly (which actual trained and licensed professionals have spoken out about) as her inherent 'badness' rather than a fight/flight/freeze/fawn (AKA 4F trauma response which is normal) reaction to his mental abuse.

6 - Sadism is a very real issue that is often praised and validated online these days instead of shunned (sometimes it is though). It's hard for us to think about, but some actually enjoy and are entertained by the extreme pain of others, even if it's just mental pain and their victims aren't physically hurt. Things like Kiwi Farms is a great example of this. As for Red Pill, men are taught to ignore her mental pain, especially through dread game and silent treatments instead of be entertained by it.

Edit: I still have an ex-Red Piller in my life, so I'll try to edit this as I ruminate on this and try to remember all the points I was taught from *actual professionals, not stupid chucklefucks online that teach vulnerable men this garbage.*

medlabunicorn · 2023-06-10T17:51:45+00:00

They’re sociopaths. Comfort with manipulating people is one of the hallmarks.

-firead- · 2023-06-10T19:36:45+00:00

They don't care.

They either don't see us as human in the same way as themselves and other men, or if they do they hate and resent us.

Stargazer1919 · 2023-06-10T14:22:58+00:00

Redpill is full of a lot of narcissistic and broken people.

I've spent a LOT of time reading up on mental health issues and abuse. I believe I was raised by someone with a lot of redpill tendencies. (Redpill parenting... what a nightmare.) I'm no expert, so this is just my 2 cents.

I think a lot of people in that sort of mindset don't really know what love is. They don't know what abuse is. They don't know what respect is. They may think that abusive tactics are respectful (or at least fair game) when it's really not. I think a lot of them haven't experienced love in their lives so they don't know it exists and what it means.

They only really know their own goals and what they have experienced. It's difficult to answer your question, because it's like asking if abusers know they are abusive.

Some do, and I would say they are psychopaths or sociopaths. I don't think they call it abuse. They just know they are either empty or filled with hate and hurt, so they spread hate and hurt. It's all they know.

Others are deeply confused, like I described earlier. I think these two sets of people feed off of each other and lead each other deeper down the rabbit hole.

This is just what I've picked up on over the years.

xvszero · 2023-06-10T14:15:08+00:00

They either don't know or don't care. Sometimes both.

But how are they able to justify it?

For starters, they mostly hate women, so they don't need to justify it to themselves. They're only trying to justify it to OTHERS.

A lot of red pill "theory" requires them creating this specific way ALL women act that is based on biology or whatever. The purpose for inventing this fictional way ALL women act is that red pill guys can convince themselves that it is then ok to pre-emptively treat women like shit, because hey, she's just going to treat you like shit in the future anyway, it's inevitable, AWALT, blah blah blah.

Yeah it's dumb and illogical. It's just cope.

SilverTango · 2023-06-11T03:49:19+00:00

I have been reading a book on the history of marriage and it is astounding how much red pill gets it wrong. They have a completely anachronistic view of history. I feel sorry them. They buy into toxic lies and are ruining their chances at true love in the process.

the_sea_witch · 2023-06-11T06:35:13+00:00

Not "understanding" is one of the favorite defense mechanisms of narcissists. Makes it way harder to argue with them. Its a form of weaponised incompetence.

Rook_Cross · 2023-06-10T16:10:46+00:00

They talk about it being amoral. Now, understanding psychology, people's weak points may be amoral for example, but actually trying to put that into action is immoral. So they misuse, I believe purposely, the word amoral, because it means they're not responsible and they think they sound smart or something. Also, they think they're entitled to hurt others. They feel they are victims, they are owed, they are special. They come up with a host of reasons for why they should get what they want by any means necessary - and why it's ok. They are abusers, they are immoral, they are sinners. Some people are happy doing evil. It's sadly just how the world is. No amount of explaining anything will stop them. You also have people trying to make money off of this and people purchasing it. The sellers can't usually, openly sell abuse. The buyers don't want to admit they purchased a course on how to harm others either. That would make them bad and have gotten conned. Just need to accept there are evil people in the world and make laws to deal with them and shun them from "polite society" when laws don't cover it.

eatfleshdrinkblood · 2023-06-11T04:22:56+00:00

I’m pretty sure they know they just don’t care

MistyMaisel · 2023-06-13T15:40:43+00:00

I'd say some are blinded by rage and their own trauma to the point they don't realize what they're doing.

I'd say some know it and enjoy what they're doing either because they're genuinely evil or again, very traumatized.

A lot of what you mention comes down to the fundamental question of if a woman regretting sex with you is something you as a man should feel bad about. I know as a woman, if I found out a man regretted any sort of physical contact with me, I would feel very badly about that. And even worse if I knew I'd tricked them into it.

For a lot of them, because they can live in that grey area of it not being clearly rape or clearly sexual assault, they're able to sleep at night. In part, I imagine, because they are not being confronted by these women face to face for their actions. I think if they actually had to look these women in the eyes and hear that they didn't enjoy sex, regretted letting them into their bed or life, felt manipulated, used, and so forth, it would shatter them as people. Grey areas are the moral lampshade that allow a man like this to still look at himself in the mirror.

SuperbWaffle · 2023-06-18T07:07:29+00:00

Lundy Bancroft researched abusive men for 15 years and wrote Why Does He Do That?

Yes, they absolutely know what they're doing. As an AFAB, my jaw dropped, but it was also a relief to finally know the truth. Cannot recommend this book enough

Title	Are they aware they are abusing women?
Author	allthepillsthatutake
Upvotes	34
Comments	35
Date	June 10, 2023 1:58 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/1460z14/are_they_aware_they_are_abusing_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/are-they-aware-they-are-abusing-women.1221807 https://theredarchive.com/post/1221807

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