How Would You Balance Feminism And Men's Rights?

TeaIll7356 · 2024-01-23T03:38:22+00:00

If feminism was honest about mens issues, and didn't promote/support misandrist laws, then sure, we could work together.

Until then, no. And The principle of feminism- equality- we all agree with. But in practice, feminism does not work for equality.

denisc9918 · 2024-01-23T04:31:05+00:00

more security walking alone at night...

That's an idiotic feminist argument, so a typical one.

Apparent ability to protect yourself makes people safer. Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson would be safer than the avg guy, who would be safer than a skinny short guy, who would be safer than the avg woman, who would be safer than a child.

We keep children inside at night to protect them because they're not experienced/smart enough to avoid the places where animals might lurk.

Tiny_Professional358 · 2024-01-23T05:44:35+00:00

You can’t modern feminism isn’t about equality its about superiority you can’t have a middle ground if one group is treated better than the other.

northseaview · 2024-01-23T07:24:43+00:00

Please name a beneficial right men have that women do not. I qualify the right, because feminists often complain that women do not have the right to fight in the military, utterly dishonest when in reality it is a privilege not to be conscripted. The two rights you cite are false. Women are far safer walking alone at night. Men are over 70% victims of violent crime and much more so due to strangers. Regarding date rape, this is only if you frame rape as penetration by a penus. If you include forced sex experienced by men such as forced to penetrate the rates are far more similar. Neither of these are a right, but we both in theory have protection under the law against such crimes. In practice, due to systemic bias, women enjoy far better enforcement of such rights than men.

Angryasfk · 2024-01-23T08:37:32+00:00

Those ones you mentioned are not rights.

For one men are not at less risk walking the streets at night. We are probably at less risk of being attacked and raped whilst doing so. But we’re more at risk of violent assault than women are. A guy is more likely to be able to fight back against an attacker. But in general it’s more that women in general fear attack more than men in general do.

The solution frankly is better policing. A stronger police presence patrolling the streets would deter many of these attacks. This is a separate issue to how the police are run, used for political ends etc.

As for date rape. Well it’s easy to say women are “most at risk” when those, like Mary P Koss, who expand the definition exclude incidents of women doing this to men because “it’s different”. Many of these rapes are actually the woman having a drink. But this is not evenly applied. If she’s had a drink, she’s unable to consent, but if he’s equally intoxicated (or more so) he’s still fully able to judge whether she can consent or not. And if she’s sober and he’s drunk, it “doesn’t matter”, nothing happens to her. You see “it’s different”.

It’s the double standard, and total lack of balance or fairness that angers people here. No one here (except maybe the odd psychotic) in anyway condones women being raped, physically attacked or otherwise mistreated. The objection is to the fact that women (feminists) are given a pass on these actions. So two drunk people hook up at a bar. She regrets it next day (is embarrassed for whatever reason) and so it’s represented as him “taking advantage” and then gets reported. Her being drunk means her consent (indeed initiating things) is nullified. But his being drunk in no way means she violated him because he wasn’t able to consent!

It’s still presented that women are “delicate little flowers” who can’t think for themselves, and are just pushed around by men. And these “female empowerment” feminists are fine with it.

You can see it in the assertion that sexism is “prejudice PLUS power”, which is really just a way of giving themselves a licence to be a sexist and bigoted as they like and still pretend they’re against it.

Women’s rights and men’s rights can certainly coexist. But the issue is that feminism effectively says that men’s rights are subordinate to women’s interests. That must change.

denisc9918 · 2024-01-23T04:22:52+00:00

How Would You Balance Feminism And Men's Rights?

I would put feminism in a bag and go look for a bridge.

KD_Ram · 2024-01-23T06:16:14+00:00

It's not just rights I am interested in. It's accountability.

like the accountability that comes with acknowledging the fact that yes, considering reducing males to 10% of the total human population is an accepted idea within feminism. YOU might turn around and play the whole "that's not real feminism card" but you will make up some excuse on why it's accepted.

or the accountability of not blaming every single thing on the ~~illuminati~~ "patriarchy". is there anything part of feminist theory that FORCES you to go "it was me who fucked up". because where I grew up and the circles I grew up not owning up to your fuck-ups winds up badly. and to prove I am not a hypocrite on this subject...

I openly hate feminists yet no I do not blame you or any other feminist for the fact that I'm fucked in the head, that's nobodies fault. if all men & boys was wiped off the face of the earth tomoro would you still blame rape on the ~~men~~ "patriarchy"? would rape still be (and I fucking quote)

"Man's discovery that his genitalia could serve as a weapon to generate fear must rank as one of the most important discoveries of prehistoric times, along with the use of fire and the first crude stone axe. Rape's critical function is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear"

Susan Brownmiller Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape (pages 5-8)(1975)

or is what I will here from you is the classic "that's not real feminism/she is not a real feminist"

MakeAVision · 2024-01-23T03:52:47+00:00

Women can take care of themselves. They keep saying they don't need us, so take them at their word and let them solve their own problems. In the meantime we can solve ours.

barkmagician · 2024-01-23T11:46:19+00:00

mra want equality. feminists want superiority.

balance cant be achieved.

John_Bones23 · 2024-01-23T07:43:36+00:00

You can’t feminist ideology is about creating a matriarchy which is bad for both men and women

From its inception feminism was about female dominance take a look at Janice Fiamengo she explains it all

Angry_Angel3141 · 2024-01-23T09:02:43+00:00

You DON'T!

Modern third (or fourth, depending of how you see it) wave feminism is nothing more than socialism-in-disguise with Men as the adversary. You CANNOT negotiate with an enemy who declares their entire purpose is to destroy you. In this scenario, one must be destroyed.

To quote Callsign: Chaos "...your enemy gets a vote!"

Men and women are NOT meant to be enemies. This entire situation is driven by those who somehow believe women can be better men than MEN (look at the trans movement and then I dare you to call me a liar!). We are meant to be allies. Two halves of the same coin. Where one is strong, the other is weak, BOTH F'IN WAYS! Feminists believe they are better...

You cannot reason someone out of a position they did not use reason to get to in the first place.

Put another way, You cannot reason with someone who does not possess reason!

BookwormNinja · 2024-01-23T04:11:10+00:00

I'm female, but here's my take on it.

I think one of the biggest changes that would be helpful, is if anyone getting in trouble for mistreating someone else, was punished based on the harm they caused, without gender coming into the argument. That way, women who abuse/rape men, would be held to the same standard as men who mistreat women.

I'd also like to see equality when it comes to reproductive rights. Anyone 18+, regardless of gender, should have the right to be sterilized. And (I know this next bit is controversial but) either parent should have the right to walk away from raising a child before the birth certificate is signed. Child support should only be a thing, if you agree to raise a kid, then walk away afterward.

(Edit: spelling)

shit-zen-giggles · 2024-01-23T16:30:40+00:00

That includes advantages that are not technically rights (e.g., less date rape, more security walking alone at night.)

I think it's kinda telling that you have to immediately dillute the definition of rights... to mean everything and anything right down to subjective, momentary feelings.

Kinda telling indeed.

Midwit_Concentrator · 2024-01-23T14:35:48+00:00

Absolutely, men are privileged over women and governments must step in to pull them down and ensure an equal and equitable society free of patriarchy.

Firstly, men enjoy the military draft. Privilege being blown up should be enjoyed by all sexes and genders.
Secondly, men enjoy not knowing whose children they're raising.
Thirdly, men are overrepresented in the lucrative fields, such as construction work and waste removal.
Fourthly, men get to enjoy surprise anal fun much more often than women do.

Huitzil37 · 2024-01-23T16:43:05+00:00

There is no "balance" between feminism and men's rights. There's not a dial you adjust that days "feminism" on one side and "men's rights" on the other. They are two different and mutually exclusive worldviews about gender dynamics and discrimination. And the worldview of feminism is the worldview of sexism and is wrong.

There is no right you take away from men to make women feel safer. Feminism is sexism, and sexism demands women always be afraid and feel helpless and that men have to enlist their agency to make women's environment suitable for them. Women have been safer than men for every single moment of human history in every location on the planet Earth; you can't make women safer in a way that allays their fears because the fear isn't based on reality. It's based on lying to them about how much danger they're in. The solution is to stop lying. The ones telling the lie are feminists. There's no compromise position.

Feminism is sexism. It's not reverse sexism, it's not "equality gone too far," it is the same thing as sexism. It believes all the same things as sexism, has all of the biases sexism does, and arrives at all of the conclusions sexism does. The way to free ourselves from sexism is not to compromise with it, it's to stop seeing the world in the fundamentally sexist way.

Main-Tiger8593 · 2024-01-23T06:04:19+00:00

feminists vs mens rights activists

mens rights activism

iainmf · 2024-01-23T19:26:43+00:00

Is equality making sure everyone has the same rights exactly or does it look more like rights that are different but balance out?

'Human rights' is the concept the everyone has the same rights. We use this concept because we noticed that if we think people have different rights and try to balance them out, it inevitably doesn't work. Balancing out different rights is too hard an open to abuse.

So if we start from the position that everyone has the same rights, then "women's rights" and "men's rights" are just the human rights issues that uniquely or predominately affect women or men.

Then we need a system that values women's and men's rights issues equally. For example, having a UN Women and a UN Men, having a Minister for Women and a Minister for men, having a women's health strategy and a men's health strategy.

Automatic_Survey_307 · 2024-01-23T11:33:34+00:00

Good post - thanks. The success and happiness of women is just as important to men as the success and happiness of men is to women. Harm to women is harm to men and vice-versa. I hope people can start to see this more.

-Soggy-Potato- · 2024-01-23T17:14:44+00:00

Intersectional Feminism works pretty well for acknowledging the different ways people can be advantaged / disadvantaged depending on race, gender, class etc

Cowboy71113 · 2024-01-24T17:01:24+00:00

I think equality is achievable, but I think equity is what feminism aims at right now. I’m not a fan of equity because it can quickly turn into entitlement. Everyone feels they should be at the top, but didn’t put in the same work as the person who made it, so they assume it was because of some kind of injustice.

So to me men’s rights movements should be pushing back against “equity,” and aspiring for equality. Laws that support equity are largely the problem from my perspective.

AbysmalDescent · 2024-01-25T06:07:15+00:00

Men don't have more security walking alone at night. Most stats show that men are victims of violence, whether from law-enforcement, men or women. The circumstances around male date rape from women also tends to be different and, therefore, reported differently(if reported at all). It's also kind of a moot point when men are also greater victims of every other form of violence/assault, most of which I would consider to be more destructive than sexual assault(the only reason why people see rape as being a crime worse than say, murder or mutilation, is because we under-emphasize violence that happens to men and over-emphasize violence that happens to women).

Part of the problem is that feminism has been so prevalent for so long, and is so empowered by male disposability and female pedestalization, that the "scales" are just too far skewed in women's favor. It is fundamentally ingrained into the way people think and look at just about any issue, to the point where they can't even understand or care about men being victimized(even if it's explained to them in detailed or presented to them objectively). The only way to really reach any kind of reasonable middle ground at this point, is to cut back on feminism almost completely and focus almost entirely on men's rights issues.

When society reaches a point where it can look at these issues objectively, and not just through the misandric lens of feminism or traditional expectations, then there would hopefully be no need for either movements and people could just focus on equality.

How Would You Balance Feminism And Men's Rights?

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Title	How Would You Balance Feminism And Men's Rights?
Author	justaskinthequestion
Upvotes	0
Comments	98
Date	January 23, 2024 3:29 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/19devrg/how_would_you_balance_feminism_and_mens_rights/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-would-you-balance-feminism-and-mens-rights.1243563 https://theredarchive.com/post/1243563