A lot of guys in pick up need therapy, and not pick up.

jdepps113 · 2012-11-11T13:12:24+00:00

While I agree with your basic premise, therapy is most certainly not for just psychotics and sociopaths. I have gotten a lot of good out of therapy and a lot of good out of this forum and I strongly disagree with your demonization of therapy in this post, whether it was intended or not.

There are plenty of people you surely would consider normal who would benefit from it.

andrewtherenaldo · 2012-11-11T12:13:32+00:00

I like to hope that all PUAs, whether normal or not, will start with the idea that they need to get their lives in order before inviting women in. For some, that means exercise and meditation and a new wardrobe. For others, that means therapy. Unless you're a trained psychologist, I'm guessing the percentage of us who are beyond help is much much smaller than your "1 in 3 or 4." Even if it takes some willing spirits a bit longer than the rest, we leave no man behind here. So instead of setting new admission standards for our super-elite super-saiyan club of normals, let's just focus on helping each other become our best selves.

SterlingDraper · 2012-11-11T14:27:54+00:00

I actually find the worst ones aren't in RSD; they're actually leaders or gurus. Roissy in particular strikes me as such: an extremely bitter, hateful, and spiteful person trying vainly to be lord over others. While some of his stuff is legit, a lot of his posts (especially recently) are just downright mean-spirited and angry--and attempt to paint anyone who disagrees with him in any way as a pathetic fool getting in the way of the advancement of the human race.

reph · 2012-11-11T13:57:03+00:00

There is no cure for sociopathy; you can only make them better deceivers.

2012-11-11T20:24:16+00:00

I am a big fan of therapy. I've done it off and on since my twenties. Most recently I did it for about a year and a half around the same time I first learned about Game. My therapist (a woman) was very supportive of my learning about Game but also asked me hard questions that made me think much deeper about my life than just learning a few routines.

crystalcastles · 2012-11-11T14:53:19+00:00

It's true, a lot of guys will use women as a drug and have their priorities not in order. I personally have focused less on the opposite sex and more on self-betterment recently

2012-11-11T13:53:39+00:00

Just so you know, it's bear not bare.

andrewtherenaldo · 2012-11-11T16:09:57+00:00

There is a difference between a PUA and somebody who just wants to get better at meeting women. There are lots of normal people who read this material but only a few of them would call themselves PUA and make their life about PUA. This is where the problem comes from. You kinda need to be fucked up. Why would a normal person be obsessed about getting laid all the time? There are better things to do in life. From my personal experience most PUAs I've met had a fucked up childhood. Actually, a lot of them grew up without a father. I'm not a psychologist so I can't really analyse their psychological roots but I have a feeling there has to be something they are trying to compensate for.

duroudes · 2012-11-11T10:23:56+00:00

my personal approach to pickup isnt at all about applying outer game and getting laid its much more about self-development. I just figure thats what everyone truly wants to take away from pickup. why would you want to just deceive girls so you can get laid? Inner game is what that addresses.

the people who you consider psychopaths id probably consider as the ones who really just want to manipulate and deceive in order to get laid. i think all that falls under the category of outer game.

demonaca123 · 2012-11-11T19:06:19+00:00

what about people like me? I'm a guy who is socially confident but wants to get more so.

2012-11-11T21:46:21+00:00

I also know another guy that has done over 4 RSD bootcamps and hotseats and has spent over $10,000 on RSD bullshit and he's a lot worse today and has a lot of mental issues, it's sad that RSD is taking advantage of him, and he just defends the company and is a major fanboy.

He's talking about this guy.

Truly sad.

2012-11-11T23:50:06+00:00

RSD attracts two types of people. People who have never learned to think critically, and people who are emotionally unstable. It is the ones that have both of these problems that eat up the bullshit and dig their own graves.

That said, I really believe that there is nothing weird or embarrassing about seeking to improve one's dating life, and stray sheep who have wondered off the right path should be led back.

pinkhero · 2012-11-12T01:18:25+00:00

I will agree, lack of the single ability to socialize is a major set back. And you shouldn't be worried about asking out a HB8 when a HB5 turned you down. You need to learn how to socialize, mingle, and have a life to do this. After that is when The Game comes into play.

cynicdiogenes · 2012-11-11T14:40:10+00:00

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thumbmouth · 2012-11-11T08:46:53+00:00

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86andOnandOn · 2012-11-11T20:47:21+00:00

RSD sounds completely wack...

Itbelongsinamuseum · 2012-11-11T18:07:37+00:00

I agree with you completely, except for your mention of drugs. Are you including marijuana usage in you rebuke? Or just hard drugs?

readonlyuser · 2012-11-12T04:23:48+00:00

It sounds like you're lumping psychotics in with guys who don't have all their shit together.

2012-11-12T15:52:40+00:00

I remember listening to a sermon by a sociologist reverend once who explained that the majority of people who get over their problems rank higher in those people who do not go to a therapist or psychiatrist. I agree that a lot of people need help, but I think it comes more from them needing social interaction. The one fundamental I would change, if I could, in a lot of pick-up communities, is that we would selflessly help people without thought of reward. I see a lot of panic arising because we all think we need to busy with pick-up all the time. Try helping these needy people a bit instead of blowing them off altogether. I'm not saying you have to sacrifice all your time, but you should be willing to be friends who hang out once and a while. Then, after you've established they need to get things in order, if they are not changing, let them fall on their faces. It's not right to leave anyone in the dust until you have done all you can to make certain you helped.

Say what you want about this, but there's more to life than JUST pickup. We're human and we need social interaction. Believe it or not, not everyone can pull themselves up from their boot straps. Some people need mentoring relationships they are given without asking for. There's a necessity for us to make a good image of what this stuff is and still maintain our humanity by helping brothers in need.

BetterL8thanDead · 2012-11-12T16:38:11+00:00

I think you're right.

The psychological manipulation at the heart of PU seems to attract not just introverted, socially-impaired nerdies, but men with deeper issues who suffer from an overall lack of feeling in control of their lives. Given this opportunity to seemingly "control" situations they've always been frustrated by (and the "ultimate" situation for boosting male self-esteem at that, getting girls to fuck him who would have rejected him before) becomes a band-aid for ALL their issues. I think it's this kind of guy that gets carried away and addicted to the game. It's a slippery slope that can be ridden to excessive, creepy extremes.

PUAs claim it's all about self-improvement, but if canned, manipulative tactics that present a false self are at the heart of this so-called "improvement,' the guy isn't really improving anything long-term. In fact, I think its the opposite.

2012-11-12T19:43:41+00:00

"Be a normal cool guy."

And that's exactly the sticking point. What is normal? Most of these damaged guys have no idea of what it is, or how to get there.

It means nothing when you say it like that. But if you say: be emotionally stable. Don't get spun out by every little thing. Have basic compassion for people. Be friendly and respectful to everyone you meet. See men and women as equal (not the same, but equal) and understand that everyone deserves love and affection. Be kind and thoughtful in all your dealings. Always keep your word. Pay attention to people and if they seem uncomfortable, consider if you're making them uncomfortable, and if so, apologize. Listen more than you talk.

Etc etc etc. A lot of the guys in the most trouble, I've observed, just don't know what normal, healthy social interactions look and feel like. That's what therapy can help with.

A lot of these guys were just beat on by their parents and schoolmates for years. Lots of pent up anger. Poor social skills as a result. The therapist can come in and role-play and re-pattern those social skills. It's helpful. It's worth almost any amount of money. They can take a guy who was basically broken from a social standpoint and help him become "normal" and function socially at a high level, so he brings value to everyone's life he interacts with.

It's worth it.

Freevoulous · 2012-11-12T22:58:54+00:00

I would disagree with OP on two points:

There are not "two types of guys" in PUA community, but a whole spectrum of individuals. Pretending that it is not would be disingenous.

2.Even for the the few hardcases, the major reason they are so wieird is the soul crushing loneliness, craving for female companionship, and sexual deprivation.

Its not that they are weirdoes therefore they cannot get laid, it is the reverse: they became weirdos due to accidental lack of success with women, and then it created a feedback loop.

Those guys cannot be fixed by a therapist, because their problem is not a psychological one, as much as a social, or even technical one.

2013-01-23T23:28:25+00:00

sorry but what is RSD ?

BlueFireAt · 2012-11-11T14:02:40+00:00

It's funny how "the guys who need therapy" become "normal" once they get laid a few times.

it's sad that RSD is taking advantage of him, and he just defends the company and is a major fanboy.

How is a company taking advantage of someone who willing is spending their own money?

rmbarnes · 2012-11-11T09:02:44+00:00

there's also guys who just like to sharpen their skills or are simply intellectually curious... I'm 36 and already had more then 50 girls when I was 18, I never needed this, but I find it interesting... I don't fuck much anymore, but I do appreciate analyzing it... it is one of the most aspect of human interaction, so although I see where you're coming, I think there's much more then 2 types of people interested in...

BetterL8thanDead · 2012-11-12T06:10:20+00:00

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mrpoopistan · 2012-11-12T06:57:58+00:00

No one ever went broke telling people lies they want to hear. The brutal truth is that you only need the broad outlines of PUA to be successful. Too many specifics and too much analysis will make you worse, not better.

cron_nin · 2012-11-12T02:36:09+00:00

D) Strongly disagree. Therapy is a great way to separate stupid pussies who can't solve their own problems from their money. You spend hours of your time, and money, talking to someone who, quite frankly, doesn't give a fuck about you or your problems, so you can bitch about things that they have no context for and are no more helpful than the people on seddit.

Title	A lot of guys in pick up need therapy, and not pick up.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	107
Comments	113
Date	November 11, 2012 7:30 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1302vf/a_lot_of_guys_in_pick_up_need_therapy_and_not/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/a-lot-of-guys-in-pick-up-need-therapy-and-not-pick.1342604 https://theredarchive.com/post/1342604

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