[FR]: early 20's female- went out to a pub crawl. First night out since committing to bettering myself and social interactions through seduction techniques

2013-04-06T15:50:06+00:00

[permanently deleted]

the-ginger-one · 2013-04-06T17:10:22+00:00

American was interested but seemed a bit AFC. He has you on a pedestal if he's confident around most other people, except you. You could have shifted his interest by wingmanning him and the Moroccan to other girls, which would have set you up well to introduce yourself to them. Foreign people (i.e. you) are always fun to talk to because they come from a different background and have a different culture to everyone else there.

You said you wanted to get comfortable with attention in that kinda setting, but when guys approached you, you didn't engage them. What good is wanting attention, if the buck stops at openers? You could have chatted with them for 5-10 minutes and then leave them. A lot of those guys would have been pushing themselves to open you like that, and its kinda disheartening if you just say thanks, and then leave it at that. You don't have to flirt with everyone, but talk for a bit and be friendly, and then politely bow out.

throwaway135798 · 2013-04-06T16:18:06+00:00

Accepting drinks, going to other places with guys is usually a sign to the guy that you're interested.

birdwontquit · 2013-04-06T17:19:29+00:00

While this is technically a terrible "FR", because nothing happened and there was no seduction occurring anywhere, still helpful to hear how girls think. Your reaction to the guy buying you drinks was interesting, you respected him less.

Why are you "not interested in meeting new guys"? Assuming you're single and an attractive, charming guy talked to you would you not engage?

No feedback to offer cause you just hung out with some dudes all night.

LuniOPS · 2013-04-06T16:53:50+00:00

Thanks for the other perspective! I'm the same type of introvert, attractive but social interactions drain me. The american sounded like he was waiting for you to make a move, or give an obvious signal, because that's what I tend to do. Not willing to take a risk for fear of rejection. Going out solo tonight to see Chris Hardwick do stand up. I expect to stand out and will try to be friendly. But I also noticed women get mad if I don't escalate. Gah! get off my back women! Good read! will be waiting for more!

lost_my_bearings · 2013-04-06T17:16:07+00:00

Fellow introvert here. Cool story! I can definitely relate to that indecision as to going out or not.

We do the gesture in this country that is equivalent to hugging a friend goodbye.

I'm really curious as to what this gesture might be. People usually kiss on the cheek in southern Europe. Could that be it?

2nd_class_citizen · 2013-04-06T17:19:17+00:00

Like other people here have said, it's very interesting to hear a well-written account from the other side. A few questions/comments:

1) I'm not familiar with your background but I'm curious as to what about yourself you're trying to improve specifically?

2) Kudos for listing a correct feature of introverts. Too many people think introverts are just 'shy'.

3) Did the numerous glances from guys throughout the night make you feel uncomfortable because you weren't mentally prepared for them? Like you said it probably had a lot to do with the signals your outfit was giving off.

4) Sounds like you negged/mini-shit tested very smoothly, almost unconsciously. I've heard from several women that shit testing comes very naturally to them, and their attraction to a man drops rapidly if he can't handle it.

5) You're right that super drunk girls are not very attractive to anyone except guys looking for that easy lay.

6) How did the unasked-for drink buying make you feel? Reciprocity is a powerful thing. A lot of guys seem to think buying drinks is building up sexual capital that can be later repaid.

7) How'd you end up in a cab going to the other club when you weren't feeling the American dude? "I was drunk" is an acceptable answer I guess. :)

sadthrowi · 2013-04-06T17:39:24+00:00

Great write up. I'm in a similar situation as you: American woman living in a foreign country, early 20s, naturally introverted. I'm nearing the end of my yearlong sabbatical from going out due to first logistic issues and then financial strain, so I look forward to going out again.

A few comments:

You have a great body, but I'm not a fan of that dress. Magenta is a good color for you but by itself it looks unfinished. I like to follow the three-color rule when planning outfits, it looks more put together. I recommend visiting /r/femalefashionadvice for learning how to dress for your body type, coloring, and various contexts, especially if you live in a more fashionable city. I live in one of the most fashion-forward cities in the world so this is hugely important for me. Also you didn't show us your face but /r/makeupaddiction is great (but dangerous for your bank account). Depending on where you live, makeup may or may not be required to be taken seriously.

Also make sure you're going to be comfortable when you go out. I've definitely gotten the "Is she a hooker?" looks before on public transit, especially if I go out early to avoid paying a cover charge. And shoes are crucial. I'm really tall for a woman in this country but basically all women wear heels so I get to choose between being taller than every man in the club/bar or having less cute shoes on. I think three inches should be the max height for all heels but my midget friends beg to differ so between finding reasonably-heighted heels and being bigfoot it just makes my life that much harder. Anyway I'm just complaining to give you a little schadenfreude if you happen to be small and comfortable in heels, it means you're adorable rather than a giant. I'll just be over here pulling things down from the top shelf...

Another thing: I used to post more field reports in seddit but I realized that if I spend that much time analyzing my every move then it means I'm not connecting with the people around me or doing productive things to better myself. Get out of your head and get to know the people around you. It's hard, I still struggle with it every day. Learn how to ask questions, tell funny stories, get people to spill their guts. People love to talk so they'll love it when you listen.

I used to be painfully introverted as well as fairly socially awkward, but in the last two or so years I went from being completely misanthropic to working as a bartender and loving it. I still need alone time to recharge but socializing is much less strenuous than it was my first two years of college or even in high school. Think of building social skills like building muscle, you need strength as well as endurance. Strength being number of (loud/annoying) people, endurance means hours/days in a row. If you do it long enough you'll find yourself missing going out.

I like your attitude, you're on the right track. Seduction taught me a lot of things, like how to land a ONS, how to nail an interview, how to make friends at bars. Right now I'm working on raising my standards and maybe finding a native boyfriend here. I actually got sick of casual sex after a while, it came to easy. I think I want to up the stakes by adding feelings.

Anyway I talk too damn much. Best of luck in your endeavors.

ThrowawayPUA · 2013-04-06T21:10:21+00:00

What in the hell is wrong with you people? Women are welcome in seddit, and this is a pretty good FR and the first thing you guys do is make rude remarks and try to chase her away and send her to /r/socialskills.

To the woman OP:

Your experience and opinions are valuable to seddit, please don't let a few idiots deter you from posting here. I greatly appreciate the courage it took to write and post your FR in front of an audience that you probably knew would have a few boorish people. I look forward to future posts from you, and if you have trouble with misbehavior, please contact the moderators (or me personally) and we will be glad to help.

throwaway135798 · 2013-04-06T18:07:54+00:00

Pickup is very male-oriented and a lot of 'the rules' don't apply for woman. I can understand that the self improvement shit that PUA requires of ourselves is very interesting for you. However, don't apply the rules 1on1 to yourself. A lot of things work differently for women.

My question: What do you want to get from this journey? Please tell me.

hyphymang · 2013-04-06T19:01:21+00:00

interesting field report. Personally, I feel that you accepted the drink from the american a little too quickly. Good lessons overall.

Wiskie · 2013-04-06T17:33:24+00:00

Interesting perspective, but it's not really "seduction" is it? As you say, you were just out to meet friends.

Would you even have number-closed with the right guy if he approached you?

Edit: Also, your group of drinking buddies is like a Model UN meeting. Lol

sadthrowi · 2013-04-06T22:53:06+00:00

You're one week into the game and you already get multiple male approaches, free drinks and a few hundred IOI in one evening?

Man, the game's really though for women.

I'd say you should stop wasting time with seduction techniques; as a female you don't need them. What you need is a good & healthy mentality, nothing more. The only thing that stops you from being happy are the rules you imagine in your head. I'd say look up RSD (especially RSD Tyler) on YouTube, they have exactly what you're looking for: Inner Game.

The difference between men and women applying seduction advice is amazing. What you're doing sounds like a fun little activity - oh! oh! I just did a neg!!!" - while for men it is a never ending hard work with the occasional fun sometimes (until you get better). That and the fucking rejections. I need to go out.

Ryu6912 · 2013-04-06T16:55:09+00:00

Good to see that we have perspectives from both sexes, glad to have you in our little community. Unfortunately I don't have much advice for you but good luck I'm sure you'll do awesome.

00101011 · 2013-04-06T17:33:24+00:00

You seem like a very smart person, it took me months to achieve the kind of mindset you had after only one week. The lessons you were able to take away were all really good. I wonder how being in a new country is affecting you, do you think you could ever have done any of this if you hadn't left the states?

2013-04-06T18:00:14+00:00

I really enjoyed this FR. Having the in depth perspective from the girl's point of view was pretty interesting. Thanks for sharing.

throwaway135798 · 2013-04-06T19:17:43+00:00

Haha you wouldn't stand a chance wit some of us, the vulnerability steams off

choc_is_back · 2013-04-06T20:19:17+00:00

Soooo next up, trying to seduce somebody?

gadelat · 2013-04-06T20:23:30+00:00

My goals were to have fun, be in the moment and pay attention to people

guy comes up and just says,"You're beautiful" I say "thank you" but continue talking to Australian

MericaMericaMerica · 2013-04-06T20:27:28+00:00

Excellent. I definitely hope you post some more in the future; I don't think I'm alone in saying that I'd like to see more female field reports, even though I'm a dude.

asimplegame · 2013-04-06T20:46:12+00:00

You should read the book 'How to win friends and influence people', if you haven't already.

2013-04-06T22:53:48+00:00

The only FR ever to comment on what type of shoes they are wearing, lol.

Great job on being more in the moment and working on yourself.

funkmasterfelix · 2013-04-07T00:16:02+00:00

lol i love how homeless men and taxi drivers get the same category

asianglide · 2013-04-07T00:23:24+00:00

You seem really intelligent. Your FR was really analytical and I like that. Guys and girls can learn from this.

AloofTortoise · 2013-04-07T00:35:01+00:00

"I ignore the sexual innuendo and just giggle giggle, I don't want to go there with this guy"

the giggling can be taken as an IOI

2013-04-07T04:47:23+00:00

Lesson learned: When I have female-game, I am such a different person.

I suggest you call it "Dame game".

You're very welcome.

Novice89 · 2013-04-07T08:06:57+00:00

hello! good write up. very interesting to see your perspective.

I'd definitely echo what other people say, next time chat with those guys for 5 minutes or so. Takes a lot of guts to just walk up to a stranger and try to strike up a conversation so reward him a bit.

As for no heels, this might actually help you. You'll obviously be more comfortable and it will read on your face if out for a long night, also guys slightly taller than you who may have been intimidated if you're their height or taller in heels. Though they might be a bit insecure if they're only a few inches taller than you when your not in heels, but never the less a few more "nice" looking guys or not creepy ones as you mentioned in a comment might approach and give you a chance to work on talking to an interesting guy. Wordy but I'm trying to say although they may not be mr. right they could be close enough to get good practice with.

Also no heels doesn't mean less attractive. A girl in a dress or nice skirt with boots is extremely hot. I'm not much of a fan of heels and a fan of boots so I might be a bit biased, but boots with a little leg showing between that and her skirt is a turn on.

Good LUCK :)

IIHotelYorba · 2013-04-07T16:05:45+00:00

Lol this shit is hilarious. On a gut level a few minutes ago I couldn't imagine why a girl would need game or what it would look like. (That said, I met a female pickup coach who taught girls at the last world summit) So I thought about it and it feels like this awesome intellectual exercise, looking at game through the inverse perspective. Anyway, here's what I came up with, the best advice (and random estimations) I can give you-

Musts-

Go check out Real Social Dynamics. Seeing you use terms like neg and DHV tells me you are probably looking at game from a very old perspective. The vast majority of ideas in pickup from the last ten years either came from or was initially appropriated by RSD, usually Tyler.
Self actualization. I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't benefit from this school of thought. You could argue it is also inseparable from modern pickup.
Go out! A lot. If there is ONLY ONE RULE in pickup, this is it.

My personal opinions-

Here's where it gets fun, for me at least. Modern pickup utilizes many ideas THAT ARE UNIQUE TO MEN or at least are thought of that way, so they may not help you much if at all. If there is anything to the ideas of masculine and feminine polarity, many pickup ideas being masculine traits may be flat out poison to you. Let's continue speculating.

If in nature the "natural" is the typical ideal mate for the stunners out there, the stunner must be the typical ideal mate for guys with that most girls would find naturally attractive. Or, what does the "female natural" look like?

In pickup, men are thought to be attractive by the way they act, where as women by how they look. My proposal to you is that you make yourself AS ATTENTION GETTING AS POSSIBLE. If you aren't going to be rolling up to dudes, you want as many high quality dudes as possible to be approaching you. Now remember, attention getting does not simply mean "more smexy." Many little girls were told by their mothers that however they present themselves will have a lot to do with he quality of people they will attract. This is true, but one of the core elements of pickup is that it isn't a perfect world and most of your ideal mates aren't actually fucking aware of your presence. So successful dudes must roll up and successful girls must, uh, "flag dudes down" lol.

How- Progressively desensitize yourself to wearing clothes and doing things you normally wouldn't. ...Or that you would like to, but have been reticent to do because you're afraid of attention/judgment/anxiety/etc. Experiment more and more with brighter colors, classier hairstyles, being in places where you are very likely to be seen or be the center of attention, like several steps away from the group you are with or maybe just on the dance floor. Doesn't matter what you do specifially. Look at girls that stand out and get shitloads of attention, like, I dunno, fucking Rihanna. Find some who you identify with and start experimenting with adding things you like to your look, piece by piece over time so you don't have to jump all the way in the pool at once. Eventually you learn it isn't so bad and become much more comfortable. This is one of the core concepts of cognitive behavioral therapy.

Go to the gym. Be healthy and LOOK GOOD. Be the best you you can be. Meaning, if you are small keep that little body nice and tight. Curvy, tighen that shit up but don't get rid of your natural goods. No pooches. Low body fat. Not stick thin and not female body builder. If there is one almost universally agreed upon metric of women's attractiveness, this would be it. (IIRC Tyler jokes that "girl game" would be "go to the gym and be slutty" lol) You don't need to do this to get laid, but a girl with a legit flat stomach and good muscle tone (like, a nice round little ass from playing soccer in high school etc) can pull literally any guy.

Go out to the nicest clubs you can find. If the highest quality girls are there, the most attractive men must also be there. There will probably be quite a few girls there which you can get ideas from. Start building a bigger and bigger group to go out with. Eventually you will want to always go out with SEVERAL people you trust! You will be getting shitloads of attention eventually. Creepers and rapists naturally avoid groups. They'll catcall you but that'll largely be the end of it. Also, you're a chick and can get in for free under the right circumstances, usually when you are rolling with several of your hot friends.

Don't worry about rejecting dudes who you get a bad vibe about. There's a reason for that, they are for the most part naturally unattractive by way of themselves actually believing that they aren't worth your time, or like you said they have some feature which you legitimately don't like. Either is a common and totally understandable reason for a girl to not be attracted to a guy. (Why this matters- similar to getting a whole room to yawn just by yawning yourself, in pickup girls are considered to naturally be INCREDIBLY empathic, meaning that they literally feel what the dude rolling up to them is feeling. If he has some fucked up agenda, or is having fun, or is bored, she will feel it on some level IMMEDIATELY.)

Get used to rejecting them too. This is where the term "bitch shield" originated, the most desired girls get rolled up on by legions of dudes every fucking day, and often have an automated (and at times nasty) response to deal with them. This is unnecessary. Most will get the hint, the rest will take and be happy with polite honesty.

I go back and forth about whether you should initiate with guys. Conventional wisdom, even according to many university studies says that most guys need cues like smiling to give them the green light. Honestly, I don't know. Do you really want a guy who is too timid to approach without your expressed written and notarized invitation? Up to you, but I'd personally say just do whatever you want to get his attention. Don't bother trying to coax an approach of some some guy who may not have the balls to close.

That said, who knows. Maybe you'll be better off using a more standard "dude" model, like approaching everyone in the bar and setting up pulls yourself. Doubt dudes would be saying no! lololol

...And that's it. You are a hot girl. The world is your oyster. Don't let anxiety keep you from getting tons of attention and having as much fun as possible. Don't let "game" distract you from making real connections with people. Make sure you have a career so you don't fall into the most common hot girl trap of life.

God damn this is a tome. :) It was fun to write.

LivingOnAMoteOfDust · 2013-04-07T20:23:30+00:00

Lesson learned: We all determine our own value and our behavior lets other people know what that is.

Clearly, this is the most important lesson I learned from your FR. Good read.

readonlyuser · 2013-04-06T17:47:55+00:00

Not that I mind at all- I found your story to be very interesting- but wouldn't you be better served posting this in /r/socialskills? I don't see this being a very seduction-oriented journey that you're on.

2013-04-06T17:06:34+00:00

This is cool. I would try to get out of your circle to find other girls, sitting at the table with your friends won't lead to meeting new people (most of the time).

fappucino625 · 2013-04-06T23:42:43+00:00

We all determine our own value and our behavior lets other people know what that is.

This really hit home with me. Thanks for the insight.

ThirdDegree · 2013-04-07T02:46:10+00:00

The tale of a shy chick who went out and realized she's not an unacceptable human being at all and had fun. Congrats, keep it up!

2013-04-07T08:30:20+00:00

I was surprised that you took people checking you out as "reacting severely"

It's one of the most routine things there is.

2013-04-07T15:42:22+00:00

Goals:My goals were to have fun, be in the moment and pay attention to people rather than letting my mind wander. I had no plans to hook up with anyone.

so this sub is about seduction and your goal is to not do that. i dont get it. why should i even continue to read? what is there to learn? you want to tell me how not to hook up? well thats easy.

your whole post just describes how to not flirt, how you do not escelate how you dont game and how you are not even interested in seducing/ hooking up.

what is this about? whats the lession?

the only think i found is :neg. thats all. your entire post can be summed to one word: neg.

sobeisforlovers · 2013-04-06T18:26:07+00:00

Maybe the American was just trying to be nice and have a good time with a friend he hadn't seen in awhile?

do_u_liek_ButtSchexx · 2013-04-07T03:27:25+00:00

What is really interesting to me about this particular Field Report is not the fact that you're a woman writing this, but rather the way you are communicating it. Research and studies show that women's communication style is emotion based, whereas men are logic based.

I find it interesting how you have the lesson learned aspect in your report, because it is more of a logical thinking. But regardless good report. It is always interesting to know what is going on inside a woman's head. Props for coming out of your shell!

asimplegame · 2013-04-06T17:44:48+00:00

If you don't mind me asking, I think it would be extremely helpful if you rated yourself on an HB scale. It is fascinating hearing it from a females perspective, but would like to understand where you are coming from. Also nice work keep it up!

sh0nuff · 2013-04-07T00:51:48+00:00

The most important thing for a girl is the same as for a guy. To present themselves as attractive. While clothing can help, it can also detract, causing people to instantly judge or assume things about you that aren't true.

Dressing overtly sexually, especially for women, will cause AFCs to approach you in droves, all thinking they stand a chance because you are clearly "asking for it", detracting you from the type of guy you'd probably prefer hitting it off with. Dressing promiscuously lets most guys skip the part where they have to work to get your attention: because they clearly have yours and will treat you inappropriately

Title	[FR]: early 20's female- went out to a pub crawl. First night out since committing to bettering myself and social interactions through seduction techniques
Author	throwaway135798
Upvotes	200
Comments	159
Date	April 6, 2013 3:33 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1bss0y/fr_early_20s_female_went_out_to_a_pub_crawl_first/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/fr-early-20s-female-went-out-to-a-pub-crawl-first.1350143 https://theredarchive.com/post/1350143

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