Is chivalry oppressive to men?

hasbulla_magomedov · 2024-07-09T01:12:35+00:00

Men doing actions that entirely benefit women and give the man nothing in return = chivalry

Women doing actions that entirely benefit men and give the woman nothing in return = misogyny

Society will always favor the female perspective

disayle32 · 2024-07-09T02:02:41+00:00

When the Titanic was sinking, boys as young as 9 years old were forced off the lifeboats to make room for more women and girls. This was considered the chivalrous thing to do.

During World War I, British women used the White Feather movement to shame men into joining the military. Part of it was through appealing to those men's sense of chivalry.

Boko Haram also consider themselves to be chivalrous. They express it by slaughtering boys and men, while letting women and girls live.

Chivalry is a killer of men and boys. Always has been, always will be.

pilotIet · 2024-07-09T01:06:23+00:00

Chivalry Is one of the strategies imposed by the matriarchy for centuries to use men without having to give them anything in return except the hope, and only that, that they can obtain her favor.

Man is socially and biologically programmed to feel happy serving a woman and as a slave he submits to these types of acts.

Remember, she won't do the same for you.

AirSailer · 2024-07-09T01:27:29+00:00

Women and children first... This is the epitome of chivalry, and is pretty much the expected standard around the world. I wonder how many men have died for women that would never die for them.

Any_Researcher5484 · 2024-07-09T02:28:31+00:00

Life is oppressive for men, chivalry just mean your simping lol

antifeminist3 · 2024-07-09T01:17:37+00:00

Modern day chivalry with respect to what women conceptualize about it, is basically and treating women 'special', otherwise known as in a superior fashion. The women who want it are not after equality.

Proof_Option1386 · 2024-07-09T02:13:23+00:00

Chivalry comes with a lot of privileges for the woman, and these privileges were balanced by the incredible limitations women had to endure during the time of chivalry. In the modern world, we have (and rightly so), decided as a society that those limitations are wrong - that women aren't objects to be desired and owned by men, but are equal to men and should be viewed and treated as such.

Unfortunately, people tend towards entitlement, and women are just as susceptible. So they desire the positive trappings of chivalry even though they reject the negative baggage that came along with it. But that's bullshit. Women can open their own car doors and drive and order their own food - and they can step up and help pay for it, too.

If you want to open a door for someone or pick up a check, then by all means do so. But don't do it because she's a woman, and don't do it because you are a man.

gabriel-kornilov · 2024-07-09T03:04:25+00:00

Middle ages are long, long gone. Nobody fights fully armored on horses anymore. Damsels, now strong-independent-don't-need-no-man-blaaah, are not in distress, provided they are still somehow "damsels" in the first place. Last but not least, I'm pretty sure not one of us here is a knight, errant or not. We collectively or individually have ZERO duty towards women. It's 2024. Time to let sleeping old dogs lie once and for all...

Straight from the horse's mouth:

Chivalry eventually evolved to what we know today: a gender-based code to be followed by gentlemen who want to be a part of the moral and social code. Men perform certain duties or courtesies to protect and—at least, theoretically—honor women.

There is a myriad of ways chivalry continues to manifest itself today—from helping a woman with her coat, waiting for a woman to sit down first, opening a car door for a woman or not allowing a woman to pay the bill.

Still, chivalric actions are based in the idea that women are inherently weaker and require a man’s aid or protection in order to function day-to-day.

We are not saying that men should stop buying women dinner. We are not saying that men should never open doors for women. We are simply saying men should not need a code of honor to know to do these things—and, men, you should be thrilled if a woman wants to do these things for you, too.

Equality, as in all things, is key here.

See? We're equal. Great. Fine. Fuck "chivalry". Same for being a gentleman. They don't want it and considering their behaviour lately, don't deserve it anyway.

Felarhin · 2024-07-09T05:11:22+00:00

Chivalry was fair when everyone else played their role by a common and agreed upon set of rules. Today, it is following a set of rules to a game that no longer exists. The threat of being ostracized doesn't mean anything to men who have been alone their entire lives. The obligation to protect women and children does not apply to men who do not have a woman or child of their own because you're almost automatically seen by society as the person who they need protecting from.

CauliflowerActual178 · 2024-07-09T07:15:20+00:00

Yes! It Is oppressing! Just think how much pressure you receive if you don't comply to the chivalry rules, there are hordes of woman that says you are less than a man if you don't provide for her ( eg pay her dinner)

mr-logician · 2024-07-09T08:42:17+00:00

How would expecting men to serve women and make sacrifices for women just because they are women not be oppressive to men?

It would be like saying that slavery is oppressive to the slave owners because it implies that the slave owners are unable to do the work themselves.

TheCharlieDee · 2024-07-09T04:10:52+00:00

Stop doing that. I dont do that anymore. Let them get the highest thing on the shelf themselves or open their own doors.

garbage_raccoon · 2024-07-09T05:16:11+00:00

The whole "it implies women are unable to [insert very easy thing]" thing is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Never once have I held a door open for a woman and thought: "Thank god I was here, or this poor, mentally deficient female would've been clawing at the door frame like a goddamn cat for the next three hours." They seriously taught you this in school?

My take on chivalry: do for one as you would do for all. Open doors for people (not just women) because it's polite, not because it'll earn you P*ssy Points™

EfficientSimplicity · 2024-07-09T15:54:30+00:00

Chivalry was for ladies, not whores

TaskComfortable6953 · 2024-07-09T23:06:21+00:00

1000%

It’s literally sexist. Special treatment just because of what’s between your legs is literally sexism 101.

Mesterjojo · 2024-07-09T11:46:14+00:00

I feel oppressed when I have to deal with the dauphin's emissaries. I should have given him my 2nd consort for a bride. Fml

Ryuhi · 2024-07-09T12:50:37+00:00

I think the proper way to act is just extending everyone the same courtesies, with only old, disabled, sick or injured people and pregnant women or parents with small children getting extra attention based on need.

I think it is great to be considerate towards people especially those who need it, but why restrict it to women?

Giving preferential treatment to just one group is kinda discriminatory against everyone else.

Evaar_IV · 2024-07-09T15:08:09+00:00

I was taught that chivalry actually oppresses women

Every day, I find more evidence that women LOVE to victimize themselves by their own disgusting behavior

Holy shit

I was told that I lack empathy by the very woman who humiliated me at my lowest point while I am telling her to fucking stop

I was told that I didn't care by the woman I dared to ask her, in polite yet a more direct way after months of indirectly asking, why it seems like she doesn't actually give a crap in our supposed relationship

Every time you talk to a woman, you have to activate hyperfocus mode to avoid touching her fragile ego and princess-mindset.

That's not cute or lovely. It's fucking childish. Treating them as "equals" has given me nothing but misery. Man, I truly hope this is just because I live in this fucking society I am in, because if not, then life is really not worth it.

Ok-Team-4704 · 2024-07-09T00:44:56+00:00

I'm in two minds about it. On average, men are physically stronger than women. Chivalry encourages men to recognize that this superior physical force could make us more threatening and a threat to women, so we learn to reassure women and limit the use of any physical force against a woman to legitimate self-defense.

The problem though is that some women exploit our sense of chivalry to their advantage by pleading, pouting, shedding tears, and all kinds of other manipulation while the man is struggling to figure out how to defend himself while always remaining courteous. Because they're operating by different rules today, the woman can win and even leave the man traumatized. Yes,chivalry existed in the past too, but then it was almost always reciprocal. Now, seldom.

Applehurst14 · 2024-07-09T07:39:21+00:00

Yes, but only men are interacting with a feminist or egalitarian.

J2501 · 2024-07-09T07:43:31+00:00

Death duels between slave owners, oppressive? No way!

imrunningfrom · 2024-07-09T11:13:28+00:00

If you find a woman who is willing to submit to you, you should in any way possible honor her and cherish her. But good luck with that now a days.

UbiquitousWobbegong · 2024-07-09T12:51:37+00:00

Freedom isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Feminists are stupid as hell for thinking chivalry oppresses them.

But having a code of honor, of expectations, is a good thing. Think about your job. Do you think you would be a better person if you had no expectations placed upon you at your workplace? Or do you think you would slip into laziness and mediocrity?

How about your physical health and hygiene? Are expectations of brushing your teeth and exercising oppressing you? Or do they help you maintain a base level of health?

Duties and expectations are by nature "oppressive". But we need to differentiate between oppression and discipline. The problem with chivalry is not that it's oppressive, it's that women gave up on their duties and expectations.

Do not act chivalrous for women who are not going to honor you in return. Do act chivalrous for women who honor you in return. You will know the difference.

harleypig · 2024-07-09T16:44:38+00:00

Chivalry was originally a code of conduct created by knights for knights. It was a set of rules to instill values like bravery, honor, courtesy, and respect, aiming to make men more civilized and principled. This wasn’t something imposed by women; it was a standard set by men for themselves, often influenced by the religious and social norms of the time.

The idea that chivalry requires men to die for women is a misinterpretation. While knights were expected to protect the weak and uphold justice, the broader goal was to ensure men acted with integrity and valor, both in battle and in everyday life.

These days, chivalry is often reduced to opening doors and ordering food, which can feel like a burden if seen as mandatory. However, the original idea was much broader and nobler, focusing on character and actions.

So, while we need to update social norms to fit today’s values, dismissing chivalry as oppressive misses its historical purpose and potential for promoting good behavior. Instead of ditching it completely, we could evolve it to focus on mutual respect and equality so both men and women can embody its core values.

Note: While this was written by ChatGPT, the ideas expressed are my own. I suck at writing.

stefan_reevezsky · 2024-07-09T16:52:43+00:00

Chivalry was naturally generated as both a way of further installment of male bodies as a disposable subclass, and a way of coping with it. It is related to various "fire baptisms", aka semi-mandatory rituals within various male groups, as all of them are determinably supposed to make male disposability feel emotionally justified for both sexes. The issue is that we are well pass the times when using men as meat-shields was necessary, but this have stayed, as the momentum is too strong.

RedPillAlphaBigCock · 2024-07-09T19:30:56+00:00

I personally still like to give up my seat on public transport for Women . I hit the gym and have no injuries and realistically have no excuse to sit down .

However I absolutely do not believe in women and children first in a boat or plane crash scenario . Everyone’s life is worth the same ( however If I was 60+ years old I’d probably give it up for a younger person

2024-07-11T01:52:43+00:00

Yes. The fact that as a man you are considered to be rude for not being always prepared and available to make every woman around you (even strangers) life easier is just another example of societies deep rooted misandry

DaJosuave · 2024-07-11T07:09:04+00:00

When it's demanded yes.

KernalPopPop · 2024-07-09T19:32:38+00:00

It damages everyone if it’s dogma. When it’s authentic and from the heart, it’s perfect.

LongDongSamspon · 2024-07-09T10:01:48+00:00

If it comes as part of a completely traditional gender interaction then no - as women were also expected to do and have their own gender specific ways of beneficially treating men which weren’t immediately returned. If the woman is still doing things like that then it’s ok.

If she’s not doing anything femininely gender specific to help you or men in general which isn’t reciprocated, then yes it is. It would be wrong of any woman to ask or want chivalry if she doesn’t follow a specific feminine code.

For example it’s fine to pay all or most of the time (or for a woman want a man too), if she is doing all or most of the major meal making at home. It’s not fine if she wants to go 50/50 when it benefits here but still expects chivalry elsewhere.

PeonSupremeReturns · 2024-07-09T12:13:12+00:00

I read on A Voice for Men that the chivalric codes began with Eleanor of Aquitaine. Can’t find that link though. Here’s another: https://wiki4men.com/wiki/Chivalry

I think it goes back much further in our evolutionary history, to the need to protect females at all costs, since they are the bearers of the next generation. I think it’s a practice that outlived its usefulness a long time ago.

fffrdcrrf · 2024-07-09T12:18:06+00:00

Chivalrous men are the makes of a gentleman, something that used to be the goal for every young man in western civilization in return they were highly regarded for being such and given respect. Chivalry is oppressive when it goes from being a well respected gentleman to being a simp. It’s up to older male role models to teach their sons the difference so they don’t suffer from the “nice guy syndrome” later on and get taken advantage of.

PROFESSA954 · 2024-07-09T13:45:41+00:00

The original code of chivalry, correct Me if I'm wrong: Mentioned protecting the weak in general not specifically women and nothing about giving Them special treatment. It also put God, church, king and country above all else as well as treating fellow knights with respect. When it did eventually include women it specifically meant women of noble status/aristocratic equals to the knights. For example the whole thing about laying a cape or jacket over a puddle was allegedly done by Sir Walter Raleigh specifically for a queen. (Sir Walter Raleigh also disobeyed the queen by marrying one of her servants without her permission, was arrested for planning to overthrow King James The First, and was eventually executed for violating both his pardon for attempting to overthrow the king and a peace treaty with Spain at the same time... truly an amazing example of a knight/s) furthermore doing that kind of thing for the peasantry or a non-virgin woman would probably hurt his reputation. The code of chivalry was also about how to use/handle a warhorse. It was eventually re-written to be about coddling women around The Victorian Era as knights were being phased out as a fighting force since guns were beginning to make them less useful.

TL;DR: The original code of chivalry had fuck all to do with women, and eventually it was made all about Them in romanticized poetry and literature. And to answer the question yes the modern concept of chivalry is oppressive because it's expected for everyone not just people who are respectful to the man as well. But apparently it's oppressive to women because: "Men expected to give women special treatment whether They deserve it or not: women most effected because muh patriarchy."

creamer143 · 2024-07-09T15:11:28+00:00

It's one thing to show chivalry to your wife who has proven herself to you and has earned it. It's another thing to show chivalry to random women you don't know and have done nothing to earn it. The former is perfectly fine. The latter is like submitting and being a slave to women in the hope that you'll gain their favor. Any woman you don't know, treat her like how you would a man.

independance_soft · 2024-07-09T15:43:35+00:00

https://youtube.com/watch?v=LygKNa-xDW4&si=YtuGxSHvcqDJgGG_

Actual_HumanBeing · 2024-07-09T16:03:38+00:00

Yes it is

StrikingFig1671 · 2024-07-09T18:08:39+00:00

It wasnt before feminism turned into a monster.

xxTheMagicBulleT · 2024-07-09T19:28:45+00:00

Yes I would say in this day in age it is.

Why? Cause there very very few women that act like lady's. That deserve to be treated with Chivalry.

So I think it's very oppressive to have gender roles and Chivalry pushed in men. If the other side can pick and choose what ever works for them at the time.

Why I full stop don't do Chivalry. Or give girlfriend status privileges. To women in talking stages and stuff. It's a sink hole to none stop invest in people that have no need or agency to require any investment on there side is required.

And honestly I never had much trouble. Just haveing hard rules like that. And if they give me some bullshit. I just say well don't see me haveing any boyfriend privileges why should I give girlfriend privileges on first meet up.

And honestly get rid of a lot of low quality people all around. If you just confident about where you stand.

It's only worth investing in if both invest. And it just requires to put yea self first. And not put women above or below you. And being ok if it does not work out. It's often a journey it's only fun if your enjoying it. But both should buy there own ticked for the journey and only when your together as a united front more should you give girlfriend treatments. Paying for a women's time all the time just cause she has a pussy is crazy talk what people keep spitting. Like your way below every women. Just going in it like that or thinking like that or acepting that Is insane.

So yes I do think it's very oppressive. When Chivalry is not both ways. But one way. And other can pick and choose.

I think its both ways or no way. And in this day and age it's no way. Till she proves she is worthy of it.

Cause we are equal and she is strong and independent. Strong and independent girls can pay for their own meals.

When equal investments keep being made and show there worthy of it. I do think being more Chivalry is good and a way of showing care and love in many ways.

I'm so happy I don't have to deal with this crazy dating landscape

sanitaryinspector · 2024-07-10T12:27:48+00:00

Stereotypes come after roles. Chivalry is a role men have to perform, women not able to open doors is a stereotype born out of women consenting to chivalry

Amos54 · 2024-07-09T03:40:16+00:00

The term chivalry is extremely misused in the present day.

Allow me to give a short history lesson on its origin: Knights of the middle ages who were on, shall we say an 'upwardly mobile' career path which in itself is not considered normal at the time because no one had careers, and wanted to continue to gain more influence among the nobility, would attempt to win the heart of a woman who was of some kind of higher station. This is where the term chivalry started, which today we understand it doing all sorts of romantic, lovey-dovey stuff to win the affections of a woman.

The knight back in the day desired more lands, more titles, more income, etc., and in one of the best ways to do that was to court a woman for her hand in marriage. Now obviously he isn't going to court some peasant woman, but rather a noblewoman with some sorts of inheritance to family lands or whatever else.

The change we see today is that women of every imaginable station, especially including the women in their 20s, 4-5 of them sharing a 800 sq. ft., 1 bedroom apartment rented from their downstairs traplord, 1 roommate able to get a discount on the rent by fucking him a couple times a month, all of them getting their Spirit airlines $29 one way tickets to Miami Beach during the summers to glam it up, posting to IG and Tiktok talking all about their hot girl summers twerking it up in the clubs with Tyrone and Chad, renting a U-haul to drive back after a week or so there not being able to get a "real man" to commit. When they get back home to their ordinary boring life, and the girl you matched with on Hinge whose bed is in the closet of the previously mentioned apartment, she demands you take her out to a nice 5 star restaurant where she'll be playing the song of her people, which means listening to her wolverine length nails tap away while she snaps, texts and focuses entirely on her phone instead of the man seated across from her. And as that man you best be prepared to start paying her rent immediately, taking her shopping regularly and spoiling to even be able to keep talking to her.

Would a knight of centuries ago even so much as waste his time with a woman like this? What does such a woman even offer to him? That is what gets left out. Those same knights knew how to treat the majority of women which was with a strong and firm hand to keep them in line.

In conclusion, maybe I embellish a little on the modern woman, however all of those details are accurate. I myself have seen this shit with my own eyes and I know many men all over the western hemisphere have too. As men, stop complaining about these pathetic excuses of women. They should be completely invisible to you as if they were some 60 year old cat lady at a bar trying to get your attention. As a man don't even let any woman wrap you into her own pattern of self-destructive behavior.

Paladin-Brick19 · 2024-07-09T16:17:44+00:00

Chivalry is fine in a more conservative-leaning structure, usually it's not big deal for men and pleases women. But it's not surprising it's no longer a norm in a gynocentric culture.

HorizonTheory · 2024-07-09T06:18:12+00:00

I don't think "oppression" is a word that has any meaning.

Chivalry is a cultural tradition that has societal effects. Whether those effects are good or bad, depends on time, place, and culture.

Same with pretty much everything.

miraak2077 · 2024-07-09T08:25:01+00:00

I don't think it's inherently oppressive. But it surely can be used oppressively. Like the female equivalent it has it's good parts and bad parts

Title	Is chivalry oppressive to men?
Author	ButteryBman
Upvotes	98
Comments	94
Date	July 9, 2024 12:28 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1dyou61/is_chivalry_oppressive_to_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/is-chivalry-oppressive-to-men.1523691 https://theredarchive.com/post/1523691

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