The left is beginning to rethink the "believe all women" phrase.

rrumble · 2025-02-24T16:42:36+00:00

In germany some weeks ago there were false allegations against a man of the green party. The motivation was to prevent him of a high place on the list for the national parliamentary elections.

The mainstreammedia went full on as always. But after 1-2 weeks, it was clear that the allegations were wrong and that it was a plot with multiple female party members involved.

Nonetheless, the damage was done through the media. He didn't get his candidate place back. And the best is, even when it was clear that the allegations where wrong, the party leader (female) of the green junior party stated officialy:

Innocent until proven guilty applies to the judiciary. We are not the judiciary, we believe women.

https://web.archive.org/web/20250222192109/https://www.ft.com/content/724de31e-69ce-4807-aae1-1a4564c95c92

https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/news/wo-macht-existiert-wird-macht-missbraucht-jette-nietzard-gegen-unschuldsvermutung-im-fall-gelbhaar-li.2290820

ZealousidealCrazy393 · 2025-02-24T14:41:19+00:00

The US progressives, Democrats, the left, etc, all started cooling off on this phrase in the 2020 elections when Joe Biden was accused of sexually assaulting a woman. We had people like Elizabeth Warren trying to explain that "believe women" was only a figure of speech intended to provide women the space and permission they need to tell their stories.

Local-Willingness784 · 2025-02-24T15:54:45+00:00

i just read the comments but why are they making so much sense all of a sudden? was the accusation completely debunked or was the accuser someone who lied constantly? like what led to this change?

SpicyMarshmellow · 2025-02-24T17:03:42+00:00

@ 9:30 : "Believing victims isn't about instantly believe they're telling the truth and going after the accused. It just means believing their emotions."

This is rich, coming from the cultural sphere that most fiercely pushes that punitive culture. The people who crusade that you can't even enjoy works of art by someone accused of SA without receiving condemnation for supporting a villain. It's not like it's conservatives who push that. But here's someone speaking on behalf of that cultural sphere, claiming that's never what it was about. I don't believe her, and she's only discrediting herself and her own by claiming this now. I don't believe for a second that in most cases she does not engage in exactly the behavior that she's criticizing and disclaiming here.

This is not the first time I've seen this argument either ("That's not what believe victims means!" even as their actions demonstrate that is in fact what it means to them), and I think it's a good example of feminism engaging in the narcissist's prayer.

That didn't happen.

And if it did, it wasn't that bad.

And if it was, that's not a big deal.

And if it is, that's not my fault.

And if it was, I didn't mean it.

And if I did, you deserved it.

This video is part "That didn't happen" and part "And if it was, I didn't mean it".

Also, she can't help but throw in the "False accusations are rare" in there, which erases male victims, since lying about their victims and the nature of the relationship is a universal feature of abusive relationship/household dynamics.

It's also disgusting how the essayist and so many comments focus on Daniel's wife as the worst victim here. Like yeah she got cheated on and is the only total innocent here who deserves sympathy... but I'd rather get cheated on than made into the worst type of villain there is in the minds of half the population. Again grossly marginalizing just how awful it is to be on the receiving end of this.

Can't help but marginalize the male experience every step of the way, while putting on this huge show of being nuanced and considerate towards everybody. It's so disgusting.

Edit: Holy shit. Reading through the comments, apparently the author said at one point in the video "The burden is on the accused to prove the allegations are false", and later removed that line from the video after a bunch of people called her out on it. That's... pretty mask off, frankly. It's really hard to see that as some sort of tongue-tripping error. That's an 'accidentally said something I believe but am not supposed to say out loud' error.

2nd Edit: Heh... and I'm seeing some comment threads actually challenging whether "innocent until proven guilty" is the right way to do things. Humanity is so fucked. We really can't seem to collectively get our heads out of dark ages thinking, can we?

SuspicousEggSmell · 2025-02-24T18:56:31+00:00

unfortunately there’s some wild myths and misandry around male victims going down in those comments, but on the plus side there’s people pushing back on it and the creator seems receptive on some of the criticisms she received

mynuname · 2025-02-24T16:19:16+00:00

I have said this for a long time. Slogans matter. The slogan of the Me Too movement should have been, "Take women seriously". That way, it talks directly about how people easily dismissed women's accusations and stories without being hyperbolic.

VexerVexed · 2025-02-25T01:49:00+00:00

Nah.

They've been so been doubling down on the beliefs that underlie it hence the video essayists sphere obsession with defending Amber Heard.

Or their nonsense around that lady who accused a Haitian man of beating her with a brick which when found out for the obvious fraud people had pointed out since the beginning, they just tried to find fault with anyone who countered her story and did zero introspection on the threat of false accusations to men in any retrospectives.

Historical_Sir9996 · 2025-02-24T16:48:42+00:00

So it's "Believe all women when it suits your narrative!" Like we have been trying to tell for years.

Believe all people but never be quick to judge without evidence.

Absentrando · 2025-02-24T17:35:46+00:00

lol I wish I had your optimism. No, I don’t think this incident will change much

Spellsw0rdX · 2025-02-24T15:37:55+00:00

Well it’s kinda too late now. The damage has already been done and it might be irreversible.

Punder_man · 2025-02-24T19:55:31+00:00

The other thing to consider here is how "Believe ALL Women" has also influenced other bogus lines of reasoning..
Take the Amber Heard and Johnny Depp case..
This was in the height of "Believe All Women"

So many people had drunk the Kool-aid so deeply that they started claiming that Amber was being punished / sanctioned for speaking "HER Truth"
Which was bat shit crazy to me..

They wanted us to believe that there's "The Truth" aka what can be verified by facts, evidence and the like..
And then there is "HER Truth" which is based completely upon what SHE believes to be true and is more important / viable than what is actually true...

Now, to be clear.. I DO believe that there are many women out there who go to report their sexual abuse and are dismissed or not believed..
But the problem I have here is that this phrase also completely erases / ignores the many men who also face the exact same problem...
Not only that but it has been used to imply that women NEVER lie about something as serious as rape..

But clearly.. as can be proven women have and DO lie about rape and far more often than feminists would have people believe...

iantingen · 2025-02-24T19:20:44+00:00

Thanks for the heads up on this vid. I watched it. Here's the response I left on it:

Hi Jessie. I don't know you, but your video ended up in my feed, and I watched it.

I have a background in academically studying wrongful convictions, and have done work with the Innocence Project and other places in the past. Three points came to mind after watching your video:

First:

In doing the work I did, I learned a lot of the "sick" feelings that people have in these situations can come from the realization that real damage is being done to innocent people.

Then, an even worse realization kicks in: there generally is no clear way / path / guidance to handle wrongful conviction. Movements get so wrapped up in harm prevention they don't think about restoration.

Second:

This is especially true in extrajudicial arenas like social media. There is no court of appeals in the attention economy; algorithms render judgment based on engagement; justice is rarely as engaging as vengeance.

In other words, there's little incentive for individuals (e.g. commenters, doxxers, etc) who get it wrong to make amends - it's much easier to move on.

Third:

Given the first two points, I think it's easier to see how so many people see "Believe Women" as more than call to affirmation. I'm a Marshall McLuhan fan - he was the "the medium is the message" guy.

If the medium that we are talking on rewards inflammatory, antagonistic, group think style assaults: how does that color how people see the phrase "Believe Women"? How does it influence what they act on, and what they see as just?

How does it encourage them to act when they get it wrong?

Thanks for your honesty in this video, I hope that my comment sparks something positive in you or your community. Be well!

Lets_Remain_Logical · 2025-02-25T12:38:27+00:00

Yeah. People tend to stall when they are benefiting of something! They know it's wrong, they know it's hurting another group, but they are on a power trip and it's reinforced by the echo chamber. Because yeah, they live in an echo chamber.

Result? Many generations of men got scars.

Generations of boys doesn't know how to be a boy or a man, and how to.face a generation with entitled women with a narcissistic victim complex.

The politics happen, and those issues become part of an idioligy, and you either accept everything or you are our enemy.

And no reason is possible because you'll get destroyed and canceled!

We really should take over the left again! You know, that one that is not communist, not centrist, not fascist and cares about people!

purpleblossom · 2025-02-25T23:55:36+00:00

It really bothered me how Jessie tried to reframe what feminists meant by “believe all women” because she was just wrong, how it’s been interpreted is exactly how it was intended to be.

Alternative_Poem445 · 2025-02-24T20:13:36+00:00

any victim should be listened to and helped until you can investigate and prove otherwise

Intelligent-You983 · 2025-02-24T20:13:54+00:00

The narrative has been Always Be Prejudice instead Endeavor To Never Be Prejudice. So so many abusers have gone free and so many victims or at the very least the equally guilty have been legally and or socially accused.

ObligationQuiet2489 · 2025-03-08T07:05:39+00:00

I hope so

mriormro · 2025-02-24T16:01:17+00:00

I think everyone involved and you all are way too online.

Title	The left is beginning to rethink the "believe all women" phrase.
Author	vegetables-10000
Upvotes	302
Comments	61
Date	February 24, 2025 4:59 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1iwu6tp/the_left_is_beginning_to_rethink_the_believe_all/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/the-left-is-beginning-to-rethink-the-believe-all.1544821 https://theredarchive.com/post/1544821

Comments