Marriage without the Paperwork?

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January 3, 2019

Disclaimer = Not currently on hard mode.

Buying a house and moving in with 2 year LTR this summer. We both have full custody of three kids, so six kids total, both divorced. I make $80k, she makes $45k.

She got married young in a courthouse, always wanted a “real” wedding. She pushed for a “maybe someday” answer from me for a long time. Fogged for awhile, but she started communicating overtly/dropping numerous shit test and comfort tests three months ago about it.

Broke it down for her like this

“I got burned in my last divorce, and I will never put myself, or my kids, in that vulnerable of a position ever again. For anyone. I will, however, think about giving you the wedding, the dress, the ring, but I will NEVER sign paperwork. I will give you the experience, because I love you, but you have to 100% accept that I won’t sign my future away.”

She brought it up again the other day, in a joking manner, and I politely and firmly told her to knock it off it wasn’t funny. She got pouty face but didn’t bring it up again.

My theory is she isn’t 100% confident in locking Beta Bux down, and she obviously wants to. I expect the tests to increase when we move in together.

Anything wrong with how I’m handling this?

Post Information
Title Marriage without the Paperwork?
Author CaliEd256
Upvotes 11
Comments 118
Date 03 January 2019 02:49 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
alpha fux beta buxbetalong term relationshipshit testcomfort test

[–]CaliEd256[S] 10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy

Side Note = There is no common law marriage in my state.

[–]Tbonesupreme8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

You say you'll never sign paperwork... but what do you think a mortgage is?

I'd be concerned with having shared assets with no legal protection.

If the decision to buy a house together has already been made, what exactly are you risking by getting married? Unless you live in Washington State, I don't think you're in danger of paying child support for her kids. Alimony can be covered by the prenup. Really, you're just risking the cost of a lawyer, but if you pay for the lesser cost lawyer up front, a prenup may be able to settle a lot of the normal divorce litigation pre-marriage.

I also was a single dad (two kids) and my wife was a single mom (two kids). I understand your point about the value she brings as a replacement mother. My situation was easier than yours, though, because her income is 5x mine. She still asks for permission to spend her money, though. My marriage is great, thus far, but I come here often as a reminder to keep my pimp hand strong. With the income disparity, I need to be superman to keep her in a submissive state. I don't know if I could take on dependents. Best of luck.

[–]Kpwn881 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My marriage is great, thus far, but I come here often as a reminder to keep my pimp hand strong.

Same here, but one could also argue there's always room for improvement.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good advice, thank you.

[–]Frosteecat7 points8 points  (13 children) | Copy

Sounds like you are inching deeper into a legal commitment despite your intentions and external front.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy

Agreed. I’m not in a credit position to purchase house on my own. So yes, being on a mortgage together is a deeper legal commitment.

LTR provides value as a mother to my children. Their biological mother is a shitbag alcoholic that almost died from it. She’s now using a cane to walk at 44 years old. My children still love her, so I’m seeking to replace her with LTR as a woman for my children to look up to.

Obviously there’s other attributes about her I value, but irrelevant to convo given I have already made decision to move in with her.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy

What is the American fascination with buying a home? Esp when you lack both the credit and finances to do so?

Basically what you are seeking permission from us on is:

Move in with a woman so you can combine incomes and get to ~$120k a year. You are then going to leverage that future income for a mortgage you probably have no business in to begin with.

Additionally you plan to support 2 adults and 6 kids on said $120k a year.

Right now there are three kids and one adult in a dwelling of unknown size. How big is this house going to be to support 8 people?

Now imagine 8 people tripping over each other all day and night, and two co-parents trying to make ends meet on $120k a year while still trying to find the time, energy and money to date so you are not trying to sell a home in 2 years because you are both tired of the shit.

What happens at back to school time when your three kids need clothes and so do hers? Well you make 2x the money she does. Do you plan to support her kids and buy them the same caliber stuff you buy your kids?

Is she getting CS from her EX? Hows that going to work? Who’s money will that be?

But hey, she has fake tits (paid for or still making payments on BTW) and she is a good mother figure for your three kids.

Sum it up good enuf for you?

Since you asked:

We dont fucking care, but you are dumb.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I’m not a woman, I don’t communicate covertly.

Read the OP, there’s a question at the end of it. You can answer it, or run your mouth on a bunch of unrelated points.

Or are you still mad that a poster called you out on your incorrect definition of beta bucks?

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am not mad bro.

I gave that faggot a touché once I read it.

[–]bob13bob0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

don't talk about things you don't know about. ie finances of renting vs buying.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Pretty sure the point of his reply was DON’T FUCKING MOVE IN WITH HER. Not to discuss the merits of buying vs renting. And I used to follow red way back when, his money game is on lock.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Fuck off Bob.

Go read my financial hustle post before you open your mouth next time.

[–]bob13bob1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

lol, i skimmed your post; it's got good basics. You're talking to someone who does real estate full time. and hasn't worked for someone else for 9 years.

know what you don't know.

also, you're giving advice that your own post goes against about growing real estate equity. Being ignorant AND a hypocrite are a bad combo.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Red, you forgot to give Bob his “Touché fucker” for his below comment.

[–]Frosteecat1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Not knowing her YOU are the best judge of what may happen. I agree that your children could use a positive female figure in their lives. I would do anything for mine. I imagine there are others here much more qualified to recommend insurance/steps to allay future financial liabilities.

Personally I take the direct and honest approach up to failing to recognize AWALT and tipping any strategic strengths I may have due to AWALT.

Good luck. PS: if you guys split, who gets Alice??? 😎

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

There’s a book with title about a 15 year old daughter running away to do drugs? Not sure if that’s your reference.

Any break up my kids stay with me, her kids go with her.

[–]Frosteecat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I’m old so it was a Brady Bunch reference.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ahhhh got it. Hoping to make Alice a 20 year old thot. 👍🏻

[–]j_arbuckle201212 points13 points  (5 children) | Copy

Co-habitate if it makes sense to you. You don't need permission from us to fuck up your life.

She's got a failed marriage already on the books. Co-habitation is marriage. Full-stop. Why would you think she's in any way capable of having a sucessful marriage again? Also 6 kids in a mixed family scenario. Why do you want that headache? Fuck her, tell her you love her, do all the kinky fetish sex you can, but keep her at arms length.

[–]JohnGaltAWALT7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

6 children in a mixed family scenario sounds like the death of all things good. All under one roof. Yikes.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I raise three kids solo right now (mom isn’t involved).

She does the same with her kids (dad is every other weekend guy).

So YES, it’s absolutely a lot. But not as much as you might think at first glance.

[–]JohnGaltAWALT2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I can only suggest you adhere to TRP principles hardcore for the sake of yourself and your biological children. If you are on point, their lives will be better for it. I have no idea how to suggest handling the GF + 3 of her own.


[–]DancesWithPugs1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hey, it worked for The Brady Bunch.

In all seriousness refusing to sign relationship contracts involving the government is smart, offering a traditionalish ceremony is thoughtful.

Too bad some commenters were so rude. I think some of the younger ones are overly afraid of respinsibilities and commitments.

[–]Poppinpilladily0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

He has a failed marriage too....

[–]Kpwn884 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

Not many states still have common law marriage, but there is a caveat. One that I would bet my bottom dollar your LTR knows about. I'm no lawyer, but it goes something like this: in the event a couple proclaims they are married i.e. calls each other husband and wife you can still be on the hook for palimony.

The ceremony will be recorded. She will post married as her facebook status and call you her husband all over Instagram. You will be married according to court precedent and the white knight judge that wants to virtue signal by nailing you to a cross.

I expect the tests to increase when we move in together.

That's huge red flag and you want to ignore it? Trust your gut, you fucking moron. You're already starting to lose frame. You told her the rules in the beginning, now you are changing them. It's not called "betaization by a thousand concessions" for nothing.

On second thought, go ahead, bro. You should give in and marry a woman on her terms. It'll work, trust me.

[–]CaliEd256[S] -3 points-2 points  (4 children) | Copy

The tests always increase when you move in together. Have you even read the Sidebar? This is basic Rational Male.

Nice try faggot.

Good tip on the palimony though. Your reference was solely for California, but I’ll absolutely consult further with divorce lawyer.

[–]Kpwn886 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

The tests always increase when you move in together. Have you even read the Sidebar?

Not to toot my own horn, but I'm in a happy marriage with the mother of my children.

Of course shit tests increase when you move in together. The red flag is the fact you can already see them coming a mile away.

Call me a faggot all you want, I'm not the one shacking up with a post wall single mom that needs fake tits to sell herself.

[–]CaliEd256[S] -2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

You’re contradicting yourself.

We know shit tests increase upon moving in, but it’s a red flag when we can see them coming? That’s the point of red pill, understanding the nature of women.

Fake tits are awesome, they look great and feel better. She wanted to improve her SMV, so she saved up and paid for them? Not seeing the problem here either.

I’ll grant you she is post wall. I plated plenty of women in their 20s (I’m 38), but they all annoyed the fuck out of me and/or had bad long term potential.

Please never say “toot your own horn”, you sound like a chick.

[–]Kpwn880 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

We know shit tests increase upon moving in, but it’s a red flag when we can see them coming?

Yes. There are big ass storms you can see coming over the hills, and sun showers that appear out of nowhere and create cute little rainbows. I'm no weatherman, but I still understand this fact.

You contradict yourself by claiming this bitch is searching for beta bux and yet still wanting to wife her up. The only way a household filled with 8 people will work is if everyone is on the same page. Dollars to donuts her kids will never respect you like you will want them to.

Even if she does, her kids will bring unnecessary drama into the house and will purposefully put her in situations where she is forced to choose between you or them. Kids do not want another adult in their lives telling them what to do. Where do you think that will lead? I could go on, but there are plenty of reasons discussed ad infinitum within the RP community why single mothers are never under any circumstances other than maybe a widow, long term relationship material.

I plated plenty of women in their 20s


fake tits are awesome, they look great and feel better

That's just like, your opinion, man.

Please never say “toot your own horn”, you sound like a chick.

Says the guy bragging that he's "too good" for a younger woman.

Avaunt, you fairy

[–]CaliEd256[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your understanding of basic child raising is poor.

Kids want firm boundaries, and strong father figures in their lives. They don’t resent them.

The rest of it just fear, strange analogies and you still sound like a valley girl.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I will, however, think about giving you the wedding, the dress, the ring, but I will NEVER sign paperwork.

Give freely because you can, and only because you have no expectations in return. If you can't give her this, then don't. She's made her choice, knowing the situation, she can make her choice knowing the situation going forward.

You can be an Alpha Provider and give her what she wants. You just need to do it from a place of leadership, not from compliance.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed. Thank you for your feedback.

[–]GroundbreakingDevil8 points9 points  (21 children) | Copy

Even without a legal marriage contact or common law marriage in your state, cohabitation puts you into a legally vulnerable position. Being on a mortgage with her even more so.

At the very least you owe it to yourself to talk to a local attorney and get a consultation to determine the risks so you can make a rational, rather that emotional, decision.


She's middle aged, post wall, with three fuck trophys that need a new dad. She ain't with you because she wants your dick, she's with you because she wants your resources.

I'd bet money that you'll get fucked over whether you sign marriage papers or not. Either you cave and wife her up eventually, in which case you're proper- fucked; or she gets tired of you refusing to and you end up paying for her house when you break up because she finds a guy that will.

Edit: a wedding is essentially a party that advertises that she's got you on lockdown, providing her with validation and a social proof boost with her friends and family, just like a big rock on an engagement ring. Even if you go through with buying a house and moving in together, followed by a "wedding", she's not going to be satisfied, because he "wedding" and "marriage" to you is a fraud. She'll know it, her friends and family will know it, and I'd wager she'll come to hate you for it.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

Middle aged with 3 kids? Her options are limited.

[–]GroundbreakingDevil3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Quite right, that's why she's willing to settle for this schmuck.


All women are, to some degree, gold diggers. Their success is measured by two metrics. First, the actual value of the cash and prizes they are able to secure, which is to a certain degree dictated by their SMV and social class.

The second is the degree to which their host commits to her, or his willingness to put her and her children's interest above his own.


An acquaintance of mine, who ex wife #2 also knew, had been dating a single mom, knocked her up "accidently," and was in the process of "Manning Up" and marrying her.

Ex #2 made a remark at one point about how his thot was a gold digger. I disagreed, because even together they were below or near the poverty line, and gold diggers are in it for the money.

Her rebuttal (which is among the things that eventually led me to the Red Pill) was that a woman didn't need to lock down a rich man to be a successful gold digger, she only needs to lock down a man [who satisfies her hypergamy] who will give her everything he has.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good story. And accurate. As we both know from Rational Male, there are no accidental pregnancies, he broke an Iron Rule by allowing her control of the birth control.

If you want to call me a schmuck, I’m open to the criticism, but you haven’t provided any reasoning behind it.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She’s hot with a boob job. Absolutely agree kids makes her options more limited though.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

she'll come to hate you for it

yep, this will never die and OP's ass will get sore from sitting on the fence before her's does

[–]CaliEd256[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe? I don’t feel like I’m sitting on a fence at all, but I’ll think about it more now. Thank you

[–]CaliEd256[S] 1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy

Absolutely agree with your wedding synopsis. It’s the ultimate social proof for a woman. And if she leaves me because I wouldn’t make it “official” I would laugh my ass off.

“Three fuck trophy’s that need a new dad.” Hysterical, and so very true. But I have three kids of my own that need a new mom, so I’m going to call that one even.

Most of your other stuff is cynical fear and baseless conjecture. Girl would branch swing if I betazied, absolutely, but staying strong and alpha is going to greatly lessen chances of that.

Maybe I’m not the only one who got burned in their last divorce???

[–]GroundbreakingDevil3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy

By all means, if you think you can pull off your own little Brady Bunch reboot more power to you.

Bury your head the sand with regards to the family court bias against men at your own peril. I could absolutely be full of shit and taking out of my as because I went through a bitter divorce and got screwed, but you're coming from a place of equal ignorance to dismiss it as baseless conjecture without having done your own research; you completely missed the whole point of my original comment:


Go talk to a men's family law attorney before you move in together or do anything more to entangle yourself more than you are already.

As far as being a schmuck, I'm calling it like I see it; if you're really as "Alpha" as you are posturing here, why are you trying to effectively wife up a middle aged post wall slut with three kids instead of just spinning plates until you're able to find a younger keeper with less baggage to shack up with?

Why bother asking advice here when you're already decided and are going to do what your going to do anyway?

[–]CaliEd256[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

You’re projecting. You can’t see yourself being Alpha in this situation, therefore I’m just “posturing”.

I’ve spun plenty of plates. I can pull childless women who are down with three kids, but I have zero faith in their long term ability to be a good role model for MY kids. And it’s definitely a trade off in attractiveness. Less attractive = more likely to commit to a guy with three kids (who never wants anymore).

As far as post wall, I’m 39, she’s 33 and a 8/10, maybe 9/10. And yes, she is absolutely a slut. At least she knows it. 👍🏻

In answer to your final question, read my OP. Advice I asked was if I was handling her shit tests correctly.

** Agreed, I need to talk to a men’s divorce attorney. I am 90% sure that a marriage is NEVER legal unless you sign a marriage certificate, but I need to be 100% sure. **

Thank you for your feedback.

[–]GroundbreakingDevil1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Do whatever you feel the need to do, man; good luck.

For your sake, and the sake of your kids, I hope you're one of the tiny percentage of men who can pull something like what you're proposing off successfully.

** Agreed, I need to talk to a men’s divorce attorney. I am 90% sure that a marriage is NEVER legal unless you sign a marriage certificate, but I need to be 100% sure. **

Thank you for your feedback.


I am in no way trying to imply that you're entering a legal marriage, unless you give in to her pressure and change course.

What I'm suggesting is that, depending on your location, getting a mortgage and moving in together almost certainly increases your risk profile if/when things go sideways with your not-marriage relationship.

The internets are full of horror stories related to single moms, child support for kids that aren't even yours, DV accusations, etc... Not saying they're all true or even credible, but in this day and age any man who escalates a relationship without doing his homework and taking steps to protect himself is an idiot; don't be an idiot.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you, all good points.

The mortgage is a concern, definitely increases financial risk, but I believe it is worth the positive effect of a female role model for my daughters.

I’ve researched the effects of an alcoholic mother on her kids and it’s fucking scary.

I will research further as you suggest in my attempt not to be an idiot. 👍🏻

[–]Kpwn882 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

why are you trying to effectively wife up a middle aged post wall slut with three kids instead of just spinning plates until you're able to find a younger keeper with less baggage

He can't.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

That must be it. Just a sniveling chump begging for the chance to move in with any single mom.

Or we are in a long term Dom/Sub relationship and she texts Tinder sluts for me, gets them to come over, and then plays with herself in the closet while I fuck them on the floor.

That could be it too.

[–]Kpwn880 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I'm sure that will continue after you move in together too. By all means. You've already made up your mind, you don't need our permission.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It was her idea, so probably. I’ll let you know.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy

Why do they need a new mom?

I can raise my kids as a single dad just fine.

Grow a pair.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

If “just fine” is good enough for your kids, by all means.

I’m guessing your kids are younger, and they don’t live with you full time. Additionally, they probably have a functioning co parent.

I won’t bore you with sources of happier children being raised in dual parent households. But feel free to google it.

I’m unimpressed by all your responses. Reading your previous posts, you seem pretty game aware, but you still haven’t been able to answer the question of frame in the OP.

I picture you sitting at a work from home job, staring out the window, little to no human interaction, cursing at your computer over every imagined slight. Agreed?

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

My kids are 10/9

I dont give a shit about your OP question.

The whole premise of what fuckery you are preparing to enter is what I am pointing out caution on.

If you wanna know about me, go read my submitted posts.

And yeah.

I do work from home. Naked most of the time to.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nice! I’ll be right over. Let Shelly know. 😁

[–]CaliEd256[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I’m open to criticism of the moving in, but spit some red pill theory, not just a line of “Chicken Little” questioning.

Omg, what if her kids get slightly better clothes than they would have living on their own? FFS.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Me and /u/red-sfpplus don't always see eye to eye, but you are very naive to dismiss his points throughout this post because they appear dead on to me and I agree with everything he has posted in this thread. He painted a very realistic picture of your challenges in the next two years in another comment and you are only fooling yourself if you think not signing marriage paperwork is protecting you in some way. You can tie that rope around your neck, but if you don't call it a noose it can't kill you right?

You are trying to ask how you can succeed while backing yourself into a corner. He is advising you not to back yourself into a corner in the first place. So, him not answering your original question is because you are asking the wrong question.

I will also add. You don't seem to be looking for a girlfriend/wife here. Your motivation appears more to find yourself a new mommy for your kids. I can't imagine how that is going to go sideways.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

We both have full custody of three kids, so six kids total, both divorced. I make $80k, she makes $45k.

So... how are you splitting the bills? And certainly don't combine any accounts. Seems like a ripe scenario for that 50/50 b.s. to slide away into support. Whose name will the house be in?

"Well she makes a point that I make more so why shouldn't she pay/buy less? I am the man right?"

And if you're thinking you're locking her in on any level by this...please re-examine your motives and realize it's the other way around.

Financially this has to make sense long term to you and your children with minimal entanglements. Signing a mortgage with someone is an entanglement that may require legal action to undo. Had a friend discover RP too late (after buying a house with a girlfriend when he was in a vulnerable way after his wife died). Cost him a lot of time and headaches to get out and it was only slightly antagonistic.

Yes, maybe you don't want to go in thinking of your out, but if you don't you'll be in a shit situation to do so later.

So ...sounds like a great situation for her.

But no, this isn't marriage without the paperwork (unless your state makes it so, which you said it doesn't). Marriage is the paperwork. This is just entanglement that could lead to property specific paperwork or a lot of moving boxes.

EDIT: Am a bit ignorant of the Palimony predicament. So, yes, you need to sober yourself up to that legal barb as well.

[–]Kpwn881 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This guy is a delusional moron.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Moving in with a woman never makes financial sense unless she makes more than you (exceedingly rare).

I’m confident if you read my comments this is not some beta game attempt at locking down a high SMV woman. But I appreciate the warning all the same.

The risk of the combined mortgage is worth the benefit to the kids getting a new real mother. I discussed in other comments, but essentially she’s a dirtbag alcoholic that almost died from it.

Thank you for feedback.

[–]NoCoast820 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wow you are to far gone to save, shopping for a new mom for your kids?

My advice buy a house you can afford on your own, and I mean you buy the house. Then split everything 50-50

But seeing as you think this woman is Mother Teresa, I am sure you are going to legally bind yourself to all this baggage.

Fuck I bought my house in my name before getting married, and I was a beta loser then.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Yup. A buddy of mine held this stance. Even went as far as buying wedding invitations to send out. He’s a contractor with his own business and pulls in about $130K. She was a hairdresser or teacher pulling in about $32K. She wanted marriage and her name on the house deed. He was a strong no “I’ve already given half my shit to someone I not like; not doing it again”. Held his frame. So they aren’t together anymore. Had to move her two kids out of the house and all.

Edit: a great real world example of holding your frame. His confidence showed that she was not worthy of the prize and he avoided the heavy potential for a future divorce rape.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I don’t see anything your buddy did wrong? Draw the boundary, keep frame. She accepted it, but then used the feminine imperative to say she “changed her mind” or “he didn’t really love me enough to fully commit”. They’re women, social proof allows them to do that at any time, to any man, for far stupider reasons.

He knew what he wanted, stayed strong, and was probably fucking plates the weekend after she moved out.

Edit - Super good real life example though. I’m calling that one a happy ending.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Sorry; he definitely did the right thing. I meant to present that you hold your frame and she’ll do what she does.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed. Stay Plan = Go Plan. I’ll laugh if it plays out exactly the same way.

[–]Spudjurgens2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do you have a plan for if she quits her job to be a stay at home mom, and you're living on your salary alone?

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy

Breaking a Iron Rule of Tomassi here.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

Marry her within six months? I am marrying her, just on MY TERMS. Open to feedback of course.

I see it as a gift to her that I offer willingly, because I want to. Not because it’s a condition.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

I'd be more concerned with her n count of 60. Given that, don't get married. It's all good though, you've decided not to.

Though you might want to consult a lawyer to make sure you don't get hosed on buying a house. Maybe get a contract between you two.

And as much as you say giving her the dress and ring, and all that - that's not going to lock down her beta bux until she gets the signed marriage certificate. So you will constantly be tested on that. Intermingling your finances won't help you on that point either.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

N count of 60?

Where did miss that?

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Mods can see the deleted threads. It was on one of those.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for feedback, and I absolutely agree, this will be a recurring frame test.

[–]WesternhagenWinner1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Moving in with a slut who has three kids because she'll be a good mother and female role model for his kids... What Could Go Wrong?

His kids are gonna looooooove their new siblings, I am sure. Especially the part where there are shared bedrooms with bunk beds.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nice projection.

[–]mrssmithhh1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

That sounds like the loving and honorable thing to do - to marry her because you freely want to give her that gift, and not because she's threatening you with ultimatums or emotional manipulation if you don't comply with her wishes. If you truly desire to marry her, I can't imagine why you shouldn't, unless you secretly believe that she is the type of person who is not good to marry. But all of this depends on you, and your ability to wisely discern the integrity of another person's character.

You're getting so much hate on this thread. From the short little snippet we got in the original posting, it sounds like it could be a very dangerous situation, but all we know it the bare minimum. No way any of us can possibly give well-informed advice without knowing so many more nuances and details.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The hate is a snapshot of why the original MRP got kicked off Reddit. I’m probably halfway in between your idealism and their cynicism. Which I think is the whole point of Married Red Pill.

Okay to be married and love her, but understand that she is a woman, and subject to all the fallacies thereof.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’m guessing you didn’t find any factual reasons a woman should marry a man? It’s absolutely a Lose-Lose proposition for a guy.

[–]FlyingSexistPig1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Could you walk away?

How hard would it be?

It sounds like if things went south, it would be very very hard for you to walk away from this relationship.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

1) Yes, I could walk away. A couple weeks ago, she started pushing for “tell me you need me” and I held frame through her subsequent tears when it became clear I didn’t “need” her. (A different test, unrelated to the marriage test). She’s also asked me “What would you ever do without me?” Sample reply is “Find a younger dumber version of you that doesn’t ask so many questions.”

2) When there’s kids involved, it’s always hard to walk away (IMO). I talked about this in another reply, but big part of her value is replacement mother from their alcoholic shitty biological mother (poor vetting in my BP days).

[–]SeamusAwl[🍰] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

“What would you ever do without me?” Sample reply is “Find a younger dumber version of you that doesn’t ask so many questions.”

My go to is "Get a newer, hotter model," But I like your response to.

[–]haraishi2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I like this as well, mine was when she compains about being tired etc is "this ones broken I need a new one" our eldest son said the same thing to her when she wouldnt play because she was tired lol. Never had the "what would you ever do without me" in 10 years of marriage but if it does crop up definately going to use this one - nearly spat out my coffee haha

[–]mrssmithhh0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Jesus. . . Your son told his mother that she was broken and he needed a new one because she was too tired to play?

That's pretty cold and disrespectful. . . What if your wife thought it was funny to tell your son that the family needed a richer, better dad whenever you didn't provide or had any shortcomings? So much coldness inside of families.

[–]haraishi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well, we both say that we are broken and need replacing for various reasons, she has scoliosis of the back, i shattered my knee and collar bone. Whenever im tired from work etc "need a newer / upgraded model (dad2000 etc)" She was the one that told me our son said that to her with a laugh. I guess if she said that to my son in all seriousness and with malicious intent that would be a boundary thats been crossed. We both agree not to talk down to each other in front of the kids. Trust me mate she says worse to her friends or compares me to there partners but I kick ass so not fazed in the slightest. It used to bither ne before I started TRP and hit the gym properly and started getting more money from work. Now its her friends saying how awesome I am haha

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I’m looking at as a win.

If your kids need a mother and this LTR is up to the task and you for hers, then go to it.

In the grand scheme of things everyone will get attached

Stay in Frame and keep your ideals intact. 6 kids is a lot. I would definitely be planning a lot more of my life out everyday with six of them. Don’t forget you hand an LTR in all of this and make sure you are fucking.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for your feedback. 6 kids is a lot, but I raise my three kids solo, and she raises her three kids solo.

So not QUITE as bad as you may initially think.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

$80K is beta bux?

Where the fuck do you live? Rural Iowa?

That is starting salary for idiots here in DFW.


[–]mindfulbutgutlessRed Beret6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

$80K is beta bux?

Didn't know BB had a $ value. Shit, a minimum wage faggot could be BB.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Touché fucker.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

No, it’s not. Median salary is DFW is $60k, so I’m 33% higher than the average already.

Do your research.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Like I said.

Starting salary for idiots.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I disagree with your statement (due to lack of facts) but my salary should be higher, it’s a weak area for me.

Thank you for your feedback.

[–]mrssmithhh2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy

I understand your hesitation, but that stats are pretty clear about the poor outcome of cohabitation. Think of it this way - it's like telling a person that they're good enough for you to pretend to commit to, but only as long as you have an out and they're willing to be discarded when things are inconvenient. Not very flattering, and not a good recipe for building mutual love and admiration.

As scared as you are of getting into a bad relationship, she's probably just as scared as losing another relationship. You have your needs, but she also has hers. Not being married is a serious dis for a woman, and a special type of humiliation. It's probably causing her a lot of internal pain. I 100% don't believe that a legal contract is the same thing as a marriage of the heart and soul, but you have to ask yourself why you don't trust your legal future with this woman. IF she trusted you 100% she wouldn't really care too much about being legally bound, and if you trusted her 100% you wouldn't care about remaining legally free.

Don't move in with her if you're not willing to marry her. It's really a big slap in that face, and the only way she's going to be able to deal with it is to either completely give up all her own self-respect and accept that she is going to have to live in constant humiliation while serving and loving the person who treats her so lowly, or to turn all of her frustration and hurt onto you in the form of lots of crazy tests. It's just a recipe for an unhappy and dishonest relationship. Not gonna say it can't be saved, but it would take an incredible amount of work to right all the wrongs.

Either she's good enough to marry or she's not. Don't try to get as close to marriage as possible without actually marrying. Either do or don't.

[–]Kpwn882 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not being married is a serious dis for a woman, and a special type of humiliation. It's probably causing her a lot of internal pain.

And this is why women are prohibited from posting at MRP.

Tits or GTFO ->

[–]CaliEd256[S] -1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy

Damn. Maybe I should let you marry her. You are seriously in this girl’s frame. You can even beta fuck her once in awhile.

I dictate the terms of my life, if she wants in, then she can eat her imagined “humiliation”.

She’s a complement, and her happiness isn’t the goal.

[–]mrssmithhh1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

I'm not for or against her. I'm just highlighting what the average woman would feel.

But if her happiness isn't part of your own happiness, why are you with her? Wouldn't you be happier if you found someone who you could love so unreservedly that her happiness directly affected your own happiness? If you don't care about what humiliates this woman, why do you want her in your life? How does she compliment you, if her feelings about the relationship are not overwhelmingly positive? Do you want to be with a woman who is so insecure with you that she feel as though she has to shit test you constantly or just shut up and be a doormat with no value or personal needs? This is a reflection of your own happiness, too. It's hard to find, but there are women out there who are safe to marry, and who actually want to love their husbands and provide support for him. Don't you deserve to be with someone who you trust 100%? Why are you settling for someone you need to keep at a distance?

[–]CaliEd256[S] -1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy

Okay, I changed my mind, you must be a woman. But she does love threesomes.

That being said, please name one definable statistical benefit to being married for a man?

[–]mrssmithhh4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oh yeah, I'm a woman. Sorry if I misrepresented myself.

The benefits of a man being married depend on what the man wants out of a relationship.

I would say, if a man desires a loving, loyal, ride-or-die relationship with a woman who devotes her whole heart to supporting him and his ambitions, then I would say you need a full commitment. If you ever ever wanted real intimacy with a woman, then the only way to get it is with full commitment. It's just a mtter of what you desire and how far you're willing to honor your own emotions. I don't mean be overly emotional and girly. I just mean that everyone has emotions and a heart, and you're a man, which means your manly heart is built to be loved by a woman. If you think that legally binding yourself to this woman is a bad idea, then it means you think the relationship will inevitably end. If that's your attitude, why bother with a relationship in the first place? That's like an entreneur starting a new business, but not wanting to dedicate himself to it "in case it fails." Of course it will fail if that's his attitude - the only way a new business could possibly succeed is if he throws himself into his new business with everything he's got, with not fail-safe and no thought of doing anything but going 1000%. Relationships are the same.

Wanting a LTR without full commitment is like a woman wanting a marriage without sex. Maybe she'll give some resentful starfish sex, but only always with a condom, in the dark, after he's been a "good boy" who does all the dishes, buys her tons of stuff, and supplicates her vanity. Yes, he's getting sex, but it's hardly the "hell yeah" sex that makes a man feel validated and cared for. But what does she care? He is complementary, and his happiness is not her concern. A man in that situation would either have to swallow his humiliation and self-destruct, or he would get angry and retaliate. Possible he would self-reflect and attempt to improve himself, but that's rare. I'm just guessing that your LTR is the same. Obviously just a guess - I'm a stranger on the internet.

It really seems like you should ask yourself why you want to be with her if you have to keep her at arm's length.

I'm ambivalent about requiring legal marriage - I think it's more important for both parties to understand the massive commitment that a pair-bonded union requires, and for them to assess each other and their intentions accordingly. I'm a bit of an anarchist, so I don't think legal marriage is necessary is necessary just because I don't like the government. But it's very important to know if you are in it until the end or just until it's no longer convenient.

[–]mrssmithhh1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Also, I didn't answer you question properly. You asked for a definable stat about the benefits of marriage for a man. I will do the google and get back to you.

More personal opinion, though, if a man can't find a good woman, it's not worth it. But if he does have a good woman, then it can take him from a good guy to a king. But yes, it's risky in term of money and freedom for a man if he chooses the wrong woman, and he loses out on meaningless sex. It all hangs on the character of the woman.

[–]40mullet0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

More personal opinion, though, if a man can't find a good woman, it's not worth it. But if he does have a good woman, then it can take him from a good guy to a king. But yes, it's risky in term of money and freedom for a man if he chooses the wrong woman, and he loses out on meaningless sex. It all hangs on the character of the woman.

This is your personal well thought thru unique opinion? You should write to Cosmo. readers will be amazed.


[–]mrssmithhh1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I'm not sure I understand the sarcasm. The OP hasn't actually married the woman, although he's considering taking actions which will have them living in a near-married state. It's a weird area to be in, and living like that can send some conflicting messages. I was trying to help him figure out if the woman is someone who he can trust or not. It must be exhausting for him to live in such close quarters with a woman who he has to emotionally and legally hold at arm's length. Why not figure out if she's worth it or not, and then commit all the way or not? He can take or leave my comments - I'm not forcing him. I just thought, that since he seems to be holding back anyways, that maybe he should reconsider moving in with her. It looks like he's coming here, asking for ways he can manage the negative outcomes of a situation which will almost only certainly produce negative outcomes. He's looking for a cure when( at least i my opinion) there's not going to be a satisfactory cure, and the best answer is prevention.

I'm not really for or against him sticking with her. I was just trying to paint what I assumed would be her point of view. I don't think it's wrong to have empathy. Even opposing sides c an have empathy - it is pragmatic. It helps you figure out your opponent's mindset and better equips you on how to win.

[–]40mullet0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What the fuck is meaningless sex?

[–]mrssmithhh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I meant hook ups with random hot women. Is that not meaningless? Maybe it's not meaningless because it's a way to get validation and a dopamine rush.

Do you feel like sex has meaning, outside of a loving, committed relationship? If so, what's the value? If not, then why do we care about sex? Does sex have meaning to you, besides just a psychical release and the ego-boost of knowing that you scored? I think some men value sex for reasons other than just making themselves more macho, but it seems like a lot of men just use sex to steal value for themselves. It's like more sex with more women = being a more awesome man.

I realize that I just spouted some very bitter opinion, but looking out at the general landscape really brings me down. Seems like no man will ever love a woman for any reason other than her body, and that's only as good as it is young and new to him. I still think that women crave the love and protection of a good man, and it is such a bleak picture out there - women are awful, and the men are adapting to their tastes and becoming as cruel and detestable as the women have allowed themselves to become. I guess I'm disgusted with women for giving up the amazing role of homemaker and creator of life, and sad that men have given up having integrity and morals and just go for the next new shiny pussy - and then even if they stay in a committed relationship, they still regret not having access to more sex. It'st just bleak, for men and for women. I have a such a bad feeling about where this will lead.

To be honest, men and women should be teammates. We should be able to complement one another and complete one another, but instead we just see the other as a resource to exploit and bleed until there's nothing left that either can give. Relations between the genders is vampiric. Men try to use up as much sex as they can without regard for the damage it does to women, and women suck dry men's financial resources without caring about how it destroys them. It's just disgusting.

[–]Intellectualbeing930 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Dude you don’t need a piece paper to say you love someone. It’s a lose, lose situation here. Use logic. Think about it.. You have a hell of a lot more to lose and she has everything to gain. Don’t let your foolish emotions fool you into doing something YOU WILL regret later on. THANK ME LATER.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I think you missed the point of the post.

I’ll give her the dress, the ring and the party but NOT sign the marriage certificate. Therefore never legally married. But thanks for the warning.

[–]Intellectualbeing930 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I’m sorry but I think you missed the point. The “marriage certificate” is the Paperwork I’m referring too my friend.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

OP states “I will NEVER sign paperwork.”

That means never, I don’t see what you’re getting at.

[–]Intellectualbeing930 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Okay fucking stellar! What’s the problem? Keep holding your ground. Stop questioning yourself. She will sense this and take advantage.

[–]Redpillbrigade170 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Have you considered a cohabitation agreement? Who will be paying what bills? If you’re buying who is putting up the cash downpayment?

Also have you considered renting a larger place for a couple years to really see what living with her would be like ? Then if buying makes sense you can go do that.

And what is it exactly that moving in together will do for you that will be net positive in your life vs the status quo? Assume you have answered that question for yourself .

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have. But to list my reasons here will just invite a rash of comments that aren’t beneficial. If you dig through all the responses on here, you’ll find some of them.

[–]wkndatbernardus0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I don't understand this shit about your kids needing a mother figure to "look up to." I can't think of one woman I look up to. The father is the crucial piece in child rearing and can do anything a mom can do, better (outside of breastfeeding and pushing it out her snatch). Just look in our prison system to see the effect of single mothering on our society.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sorry your Mom sucked at raising you. Nuff said.

[–]BostonBrakeJob0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

“I got burned in my last divorce, and I will never put myself, or my kids, in that vulnerable of a position ever again...."

Then proceed to put yourself, and your kids, in another vulnerable ass situation....?

"I'm never getting married again." should be your only serious reply, every other time you crack a fucking joke about it or ignore that shit.

You told her waaaay too fucking much. She is a woman. She will manipulate to get what she wants. You should know this. So you give her a list of your fears (weaknesses, that she can and will use against you), try to compromise with a fake wedding (to appease her.), and not only consider cohabitating....but putting her name on the mortgage to boot?!

You, sir, fucked this allllll the way up.

Instead of asking yourself, or us, for a post-game breakdown, you need to be asking yourself why you don't have the balls to state your position without DEERing, and why you get so uncomfortable when she brings it up.

Or.... horseshit yourself all the way into (what will eventually become) another marriage or a way-too-fucking-messy breakup.

No one cares.

[–]CaliEd256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good analysis.

I’m going to disagree with you on DEERing though.

“Fundamentally DEERing comes from a lack of confidence or a fear of judgement.”

She was at her breaking point (as evidenced by her communicating overtly after failed shit tests), and I took control before she tried to initiate a main event.

I’ve thought over the interaction and reread my words on here several times. Nothing about my words denotes a lack of confidence or a fear of judgement. I did offer the gift of a wedding sans paperwork, but nowhere was it implied that was required.

You’re definitely stretching, using conjecture, and not providing any quotes from my OP to back up your statements.

But I appreciate your feedback, and will ponder it more going forward.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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