Dread level 4 Implementation

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October 26, 2018

I have been here for a year, the first 6 months were very poor implementation (Rambo), now I have a firmer grip on things. My life is on a 10x better track. I saw improvements in marriage over the summer and now I’m seeing some sliding. 

Every time I see some slide (there have been several and typically things get better thereafter), I connect it to my growing frustrated at the lack of sex, building resentment and anger over a period of time and eventually starting to show it. 

My assessment is that the butt hurt factor when I get shot down is zero, but after a while (take now, 2 months no sex) I grow resentful and mean, I start not wanting to kino and show affection, because I don't really want to get cock blocked again. 

When this happens I also start to slide back into her frame. It’s really obvious. I’ve seen this cycle a couple of times.

Take today, I’m obviously annoyed I got turned down yesterday, and the sub-communication is terrible, petty fights, little shit tests I handle poorly, wife physically withdrawing from me.

My dread level is steady at 3, but I have been implementing 5, 6 and 7. I have a number of potential plates and for the first time I seriously consider them. Whenever I think about plates I find they are an escape from OYS, but man, I want a drink. 

Dread level 4 is a level I always struggled with when thinking about implementation. The way I’m looking at it right now is to spend significantly less time at home (I started already), make her a roommate and sparsely give some kino/affection and engagement. I tried in the past to full-on remove affection and that was retarded. 

The problem is initiating, if over a long time frame I get shot down I start giving a fuck and undo all the good work. Folks that had a seriously withdrawn wife, how did you handle it? 

Post Information
Title Dread level 4 Implementation
Author Jupi_ter
Upvotes 12
Comments 56
Date 26 October 2018 12:55 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/203852
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/9rg42s/dread_level_4_implementation/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
dread gameframekinoplateshit test

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret29 points30 points  (5 children) | Copy

Really, there are a number of problems here. You initiating too much, which turns into a codependent and validating behavior. You not resetting every day. You not getting over your anger. You not actually doing shit about building a life outside of your wife.

Here's dread 4 - Dread Level 4: Begin conditioning your availability to your wife with her treatment of you. Your are busy now. You don't have time for a sexually disinterested, annoying, or angry wife. Take up another cause if you need to. This is a great time to join a martial arts club. Read The Ironwood Collection of Alpha Moves by Ian Ironwood.

Before Dread 4, you need this: Learn to recognize and start passing Shit Tests. Begin building a strong, indefatigable frame where you are not affected by her sexual denials. Develop an action plan to improve the major areas of your life. Begin to build a life apart from your wife.

Look. You fantasizing about plates is well ahead of where you are. You are still needing the basics. Frame. STFU. Pass shit tests. Lose the anger. You mention this a few times in your post: "When this happens I also start to slide back into her frame. It’s really obvious. I’ve seen this cycle a couple of times."; and "building resentment and anger over a period of time"

Good on you for posting in OYS, and you're making progress, but people rarely are where they say they are.

You should review the basics on frame, ensure that is solid, then work your way up. Be attractive, don't be unattractive. Build a life outside of your wife.


man, I want a drink.

There are no answers here.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

/u/Steelsharpenssteel. - very insightful comment.

OP, read it like 10 times

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Sometimes I get a message from someone thanking me, and I look back on what I wrote, and think to myself, what the heck was he talking about.

"The hattitude. Let's see it."

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Or like, did I write that?

[–]Jupi_ter[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks Steel. So much progress since I started, but fundamentals are fundamentals, can't hack them.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret14 points15 points  (4 children) | Copy

Reset, reset, reset. Every. Fucking. Day.

The entrepreneur gets out of bed each morning thinking he is homeless and today he must find shelter and food. Full reset. Even with a Rolls in the garage.

And here is the trick, after getting laid, you must ALSO reset! Resetting is not reserved for the day after getting shot down, you do it even after steamy hot pornstar sex.

I found I relax too much after sex and become complacent untill I want sex again and then want to do something about it. Dread drops and then picks up again. Keep dread level.

Work up to DL 5 and live there. For life.

Your plate idea is terrible. You are reacting to your wife's frame and want to punish her for not fucking you. Fuck plates because you want to have sex with a 6ft blonde Swede or a 4ft Pygmy, not out of revenge.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Reset, reset, reset. Every. Fucking. Day.

Yes. That's one of the reasons it's called "hard mode".

[–]Jupi_ter[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

The plate is a terrible idea most of all because it would give me comfort and stop my progress, like you describe.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I have been there brother, it messes up your dread too. You are actively hiding activities which would be good items for dreading her because you don't want to arouse too much suspicion. So you dread less which harms your mission.

Plus, plates take eat your time and occupy your mind. Don't let pussy become the mission.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Spot on here. Litz you're killin it......

[–]r_u_a_badfish27 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy

Hey thanks for sharing.

But, 2 fucking months and no sex? What are her reasons for this?

[–]TheThirdT3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

how about what are his reasons for this?

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Muh morals.

[–]TheThirdT0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, but whose? This guy seems clueless. Worried about dread level 4 when the only thing he has fucked in 2 months is his hand.

[–]Jupi_ter[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

No I'm not ok with it. I didn't ask her for reasons, whenever I think of asking I realise it's just a cover up for negotiating desire, and my frame is not there where telling her this is "disappointing" would not be another form of negotiation.

[–]TheThirdT3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Forget about her reasons (you are right that asking her is a bad idea plus she probably doesnt know anyways). You need to ask yourself: "why am I choosing to be celibate"? That is a question that can at least be answered.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret10 points11 points  (7 children) | Copy


It’s a viscous fucking cycle. But the key factor is you must stop basing your happiness on her willingness fuck or not.

Your life cannot and should not hang on her words.

Seriously. This is the key factor. The gym becomes your temple. Work all your frustrations out there. Operate other places cool, calm and collected.

For all I know she is some thick entitled HB 4 and you are 100 lbs overweight. So I ask you, what is the truth ?

You must seriously base your new reality on the principles here in the sidebar. X amount of years equals x amount of months

Two months without sex ? Are you seriously ok with this ?

Look. I’m going to crack it wide open. You are not attractive. Women will drop the fucking act of being too busy, the kids need me, etc with the right guy. That includes my LTR and me. Yes, it is infuriating. But it’s the nature of it. Embrace it.

Stoicism and not giving a fuck are your operating procedure now. But I caution you to not be the “dick”.

[–]470_2_700_nm0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

2 months. It doesn’t compute for me anymore. Granted, it used to.

So what are we missing here? Is it OP’s physical? His mission, and ability to lead? His options?

I know now what I did not know then. Are we giving a child dinamite if we say 2 months and no sex means fuck me or fuck you? Because that is where I am today, but I’m 3 years in.

I think it comes down to what do you want? 2 months and no sex for me? I’m going to part ways with the woman if that happens and when and where she gets replaced doesn’t really matter - to me that part of it is not that important.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ultimatums suck dick for everyone involved.

FM or FY is the last resort and you better have already visited and lined up the lawyer

Ya, 2 months does not do it for me either.

No one is giving the OP anything, or are we giving you anything, but with the information out there, the path you take to find what you need is solely on your shoulders

For any of us vets to conjecture, your or the OP's next move is strictly a fools errand. We honestly do not know your next move. the stay plan/go plan is the correct answer for all road blocks as is STFU. Many think there is advanced theory or behaviors and yet, they are actually the basics but refined

There is nothing stronger in MRP than lifting, concentrating on your map and building your frame. Nothing.

Stoicism and not giving a fuck are your operating procedure now. But I caution you to not be the “dick”.

Essentially, no one knows what the LTR/SO is hamstering about, and I caution not to be too drastic, because for all you know, she is thinking Rambo is getting ready to fly the coup................................................................................................

[–]Jupi_ter[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I'm 12 pounds over-optimal weight, and steel is right in asking me to not fantasise about plates, but I am getting better and the world and women around me seem to be noticing. My wife is noticing too but very, very, very slowly. Then I push the initiation and start the circle of frustration. The simple answer is to dial down initiating, keeping it casual, until I've made enough progress and my wife is responding, or I'm checking out.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

My wife is noticing too but very, very, very slowly.

Then I push the initiation and start the circle of frustration

What would you really expect? She has to see the changes, then test the changes, then believe the changes, then test them again and again. When you push it and she turns you down, then you undo her view of the new you, again.

She tested and you failed, this time.

Keep at it. Fortunately (most) women have a short memory and will adapt to your changes.

[–]ImNotSlash0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

When you push it and she turns you down, then you undo her view of the new you, again.

Can you elaborate? The comment suggests has shouldn't push. Of course, he should. But if he gets rejected, fuck it; go about your business. How does this undo her view of your changes?

If he displays butt hurt; that, I get (and yes, he is). Is this what you're referring?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If he displays butt hurt; that, I get (and yes, he is). Is this what you're referring?


[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

"and my wife is responding, or I'm checking out."

Ultimatums are viciously sick and dangerous. They are a bad habit to load into one's vocabulary or thoughts as the end all.

The stay plan/go plan is the optimal until you can conjure up the strength and fortitude to get over the rejections and keep moving forward, without resets, the SO, will keep denying. If you bail now it's a wash, rinse and repeat until you get it fixed, so how about fixing it now

I hope you have read some of my advice to others on heavy lifts on the big compounds Squat, Bench, Dead lift and Rows. You should need a bra to step down stairs if working out consistently Don't kill your form and don't max, just get into enough weight to kill it the end of 5-6 reps

[–]RedPillCoach7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy

Dread level 4....spend significantly less time at home (I started already), make her a roommate and sparsely give some kino/affection and engagement. I tried in the past to full-on remove affection and that was retarded.

Yes removing all affection is retarded. Turning your wife into a roomate is also retarded. The idea is operant conditioning. Begin rewarding good behavior with time and attention and begin punishing bad behavior with the loss of your time and attention. Reset every day.

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Listen to this guy, because he knows a guy and actively helped the guy who wrote the book on levels of dread.

Or something like that. This guy has studied and knows dread, I'll leave it at that.

[–]Jupi_ter[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–]th3_dr3ad00 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I've been attempting this.. Yet she's becoming more angry now that I have a life and spend time doing martial arts and lifting.

I'm confused as I'm limiting my time and attention I give her more and more proportionate to her sirly, angry, cold, condescending and critical behaviour. But it currently leaves zero minutes with her as there is no good behaviour to reward with my time.

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You are missing her bids for connection and attention because every interaction with her is full of confrontation and flooding. I bet your blood pressure goes up to the mid 200's every time you hear her voice and that is a problem- because it shuts down your brain.

IF you can take a step back I bet you will see her screaming, whining and begging for help. She is not always screaming, nagging, whining, bitching and carping at you. Sometimes these are bids for attention and ignoring them is bad. Confronting them calmly and accepting them can be better. I would try that.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

2 months? What? You’ve been at this a year?

You are either not doing any of the readings or lifting or your wife just plain hates you.

I think a year in, I was already having sex 2-3 times a week

[–]weakandsensitive2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Does doing everything as a covert contract/dancing monkey attraction program count to the time?

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah... negative time. So, I guess he’s at -1 year now

[–]Jupi_ter[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Very good on you. The monkey danced until approx March this year. I can tell you my wife used to hate me before RP, now she doesn't, but she still wont fuck me.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ok then your not internalizing the readings and / or lifting

[–]ImNotSlash0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Seems like there's a huge backstory here. You and I have similar stories from what I've read on this post. My wife's issue is she's waiting for the first big test; in my case, losing my job and immediately rebounding. I don't expect significant progress until that happens. My history in this regard is a major fucking issue for her, and rightfully so.

Is there a significant issue that has happened before but you've yet to experience since you took the pill?

[–]RPWolfAlpha_as_Wolf_2.04 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

I went 9 months with no sex at the beginning of my RP journey. Its in my history. It will NEVER happen again. That said, it was my fault for multiple reasons and I will list them.

1) When I thought I was attractive, I was still a fat fuck and physically weak.

2) My initiations were shit and it took me a long time to get out of my BP conditioning back rub initiations.

3) I wasnt resetting every morning.

4) I gave ultimatums and threats about sex. Ultimatums are for faggots.

5) My wife could smell the butthurt I said I didnt have a mile away, no matter how hard I smiled.

What changed:

1) I got fucking attractive. I got muscles, other women noticed and her friends and family made comments to her.

2) I fixed my initiations. I game my wife now. ALL THE TIME. I have fun with it. I neg her, tease her, call her a pervert at innocent commentts etc. Sometimes it doesnt lead to sex. When she understands it doesnt always lead to sex the pressure comes off and she realizes she can actually have fun with it. This takes practice and is not possible to do when you are seething in resentment.

3) Figure out how to reset. This was the hardest thing for me but you have to do it. I started telling myself when I would get up that I was upright, breathing and accomplishing my goals. Again if you carry butthurt into the next day you are just starting off the day 10 steps back.

4) Not sure if you do this but honestly I think you do. It doesnt work. AT. ALL. Its for faggots and I didnt realize this until I realized that you cannot control anyone but yourself and your reaction to others. Its pointless. An ultimatum is a desperate attempt to not do the work and hope you can threaten someone into an outcome. Actions not Words!! Nothing says fuck you more then not letting someone impact you. Move on with your day and accomplish your goals. Look, shes not stupid she knows you want to fuck. Hell, I bet she wants to fuck but not when you are walking around the house pissed off from a rejection 2 days earlier.

5) You have to get over the butthurt. Your wife can smell it a million miles away. As long as she can sense the butthurt she knows she still has you in her frame. This was the biggest thing for me. When I stopped giving a fuck she started responding.

Your situation isnt new or special. I will tell you what /u/man_in_the_world told/asked me that made the light bulb come on. Do you like your wife? If so then enjoy her company, enjoy her presence. Shes not yours, its just your turn. Actually enjoy your turn and shit will change. Or keep fucking initiating non-stop, get pissed for days, rinse and repeat and go no where. Your choice.

[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fucking wow, thanks

[–]Jupi_ter[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your last comment "Actually enjoy your turn..." is the best summary I needed to hear. Thank you

[–]FoxShitNasty834 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

Try this as a test, tell the wife your going out for a bit. She will ask where are you going.. you say out for a bit see you later. (Your an adult now she isn't your mum you don't have to tell mummy where your going not because it's rude but because it's none of her fucking business)

Go out to lift or a drive or have a pint in your local watering hole the (local ale is always a good start). It dosent matter. Take your time, try and relax for fuck sake, check out any hotties / village bikes that might be lurking and chat with the locals.

When you come back or even in between she is going to give you shit. Where have you been, who have you been with? Where!! (Hampster).

I have been out. STFU.

If it escalates leave the room, if it escalates still leave the house again so she can calm the fuck down. This is simple controlling behaviour and shit behaviour at that.

There is nothing wrong with a man going out and doing stuff either by himself or with others. You don't have to be with your wife and this is good for you. It's gets easier

[–]th3_dr3ad00 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I've been attempting to do this for a good 5 months and so far the grudge she's holding with me is building and building up.

Near constant sulks, punctuated with outbursts about how she never sees me anymore.

[–]FoxShitNasty830 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Your doing DL4 perfectly then, do you ever plan stuff to do with her? Invite her along?

[–]th3_dr3ad00 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

She plain out refuses about 75% of the time.. I confess the amount of dates and other things I do I've have really reduced in frequency.

We had this on going thing since last November where I expected her to go back to work. It has not happened even though our child is in nursery, so I've been turning the money tap off out of necessity.

So I stopped paying for nannies to cover us for dates, and stopped planning evenings out due to the cost and lack of contribution on her side.

So she's still out of work, i go and do limited things on my own and she has of yet failed to get the memo to get a job, or help change our situation.

I don't feel that rewarding bad in teamly behaviour is the right thing to do, but our date nights and other things have suffered as a result.

[–]FoxShitNasty83-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Start to write oys weekly in the married redpill sub. You will receive consistent feedback weekly and helps to build a history to look back upon

[–]bueller66262 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

Ill give you my 2 cents since this is the only thing that worked for me. It doesn't matter how physically attractive you make your self or how assertive/aggressive you are if she feels that you are too HUNGRY. Your wife's behavior is UNATTRACTIVE. You should not feel like you want to fuck her if she is acting like a cunt. I feel like this is a huge shit test that everyone misses. Hitting on a harpy communicates neediness. You don't need her validation. Chat up your lady friends and hold onto those feelings when you go home.

As far as pulling away, don't make it obvious. Slowly withdraw your attention. If you are in fact an attractive male, she will approach you. Reciprocate when she does. You can try to give her a little less than she 'needs', but I find the correct amount of comfort and attention is the exact amount that she solicits, no more no less.

You really don't 'need' sex from your wife to be in state. Repeat this over and over in your mind if you must. She will test this. Im playing on God mode. My wife will grab my cock then shut me down. Be Cool and good luck.

[–]FoxShitNasty830 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

being hungry/thirsty for sex is unattractive.. I once asked about killing the need for sex but that's not what this is about. This is making me think a mindset change.. I want sex, but I don't need it, it won't own and drive needy behaviour.

[–]Jupi_ter[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

The systemic rejection does feel like a shit test of enormous proportions. Little example corollary, she started making a subtle point to make sure I see her getting changed in the morning, yet there's no way she would be DTF. She kino's me, but she's not DFT if I initiate. Before RP, when she hated me, none of this was happening.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

started making a subtle point to make sure I see her getting changed in the morning

This is basically a woman's way of initiating. A good sign I think you're doing something right. Logistics may prevent you from smashing at that moment, but you should def be gaming and teasing her when she does this at the very least.

Edit: after re-reading your post this is more likely her way of checking to see if her pussy still has the power. She's flaunting her bod to get your attention so she can likely shut you down again and get that ego boost power fix she wants. Instead, poke fun at her. Stepping up your asshole game is prob the way to go.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Spending less time at home means more time in gym lifting or martial arts. Double bonus.

As mentioned, doing a daily reset is key. Because that takes you out of her frame, if you were in it yesterday.

Leadership should generally be positive.. not brooding butt-hurt. The reset will make your outlook more positive. Some things you just have to IDGF about and move on.

[–]IRunYourRiver4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

What's the daily reset?

[–]FatherSonRule2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Forgetting the misfortunes of yesterday and treating each new day as a positive experience. If you meet resistance (especially from spouse), withdraw attention for the day, be awesome and try again tomorrow.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Read BPP's... book "Saving a Low Sex Marriage". It's part of the side-bar....

[–]Reach180Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My assessment is that the butt hurt factor when I get shot down is zero, but after a while (take now, 2 months no sex) I grow resentful and mean, I start not wanting to kino and show affection, because I don't really want to get cock blocked again.

How many times have you initiated sex in these 2 months? How do you go about it? Is it the tired reach over on the couch before you both head to bed after you've been watching TV for 2 hours?

Take today, I’m obviously annoyed I got turned down yesterday, and the sub-communication is terrible, petty fights, little shit tests I handle poorly, wife physically withdrawing from me.

So after a year, you haven't figured out DL1 yet.

[–]adeptintact0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Life is too short to be with a wife that won't have sex with you. Start having sex with the potential plates. Be ready to divorce if your wife finds out.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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