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To housework or not to housework

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September 5, 2018
13 upvotes

44, 5'8", 165, married 15 yrs, redpilled 2 months. OYS #1 here

https://www.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/9b9j6x/the_nmmng_red_pill_contradiction/?utm_source=reddit-android

Basic question about housework, home-improvement projects, and the power dynamic in an RP marriage. My wife is not particularly fastidious about our house. Many of the rooms are messy and anything long-term or project-based is pretty much out of the question. I'm not anal retentive either, but I'd like my castle a little cleaner. My wife works part time but spends way too much time with her job, seems to be always on FaceCrack, and will offer to help another family at the slightest inkling.

So, I'm really torn about how much cleaning to do. I make the money. Shouldn't she be cleaning the house? I used to do a lot more around the house but since becoming RP and thinking a little clearer, I've cut it waay back. But then I'll see the ocassional comment on here about keeping your castle, etc. Is setting up the house the way I want a way of building frame?

So, which is it? Clean the house when your wife won't or make her live in the mess while I do what I want?


Post Information
Title To housework or not to housework
Author IRunYourRiver
Upvotes 13
Comments 44
Date 05 September 2018 02:01 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204052
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/9d1z7w/to_housework_or_not_to_housework/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
frame
Comments

[–]simbarlionRed Beret18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lose the ego and covert contracts and you won't even need to ask these questions.

do it because you want it.

Dont overtly (being a bitch) or covertly (covert contract) try to make her do anything.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill16 points17 points  (11 children) | Copy

You have two conflicting issues going on here. Getting your house in order, and leadership style.

Leadership style is just that; style. You can be from autocratic to hands-off, as there's no right way to be.

Regardless of style, a good leader recognizes where his crew is in terms of ability and resources.

My wife is very capable at executing. Where her abilities fail is foresight. She'll get caught up in doing and sometimes fails to appropriately prioritize. So I make sure she's clear on priorities, and give her the tools to make that happen.

Your first step, get your house in order the way you want it.

...make her live in the mess while I do what I want?

This is a covert contract. You want her to 'realize' what a pig she is by punishing her in her own filth. The problem is, she doesn't know she's playing the game.

Leadership comes in to the picture when you get everything the way you want. Sit her down and tell her, "Hey this is the way I like the house. I need you to do xyz to support that."

If she tries and fails, it's a resource and training thing. Give her the resources and training she needs.

If she refuses to try, it's a boundary thing. Either enforce the boundary or live with it.

Next time you are running around trying to get the house cleaned the way you want set her up for a positive-reward situation.

"Hey babe, jump on sweeping that floor for me. I want to go grab some coffee after and maybe we can have a little quiet time together after."

Early on in training she may need a lot of guidance and supervision. Praise her for minor accomplishments until her confidence and skills improve. Put in place good systems so she can succeed once you aren't there.

Recognize your inconsistencies as a leader, and her abilities. Great leaders can differentiate between the two and change what needs to be changed accordingly.

[–]IRunYourRiver[S] 2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy

Gold answer. As someone alluded to earlier - it isn't about the house.

I'll do an OYS on this soon, but the problem I see is that she bends over backwards in caretaking behavior for other people while laundry piles up. And it's emblematic of a larger issue: the kids need attention, our finances need attention, I need attention, etc. But instead she spends her days shuttling other peoples kids around and saving the world from imaginary threats. She has a knack for picking people that already have ample resources and fucked themselves over by making some really stupid decisions.

A more naive person (like me of 18 months ago) might consider this noble behavior, but it's too much. It's like "make sure your own mask is secure before attempting to assist other passengers".

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret5 points6 points  (9 children) | Copy

And it's emblematic of a larger issue: the kids need attention, our finances need attention, I need attention, etc.

Which is emblematic of the even larger issue. There is a huge lack of leadership in the house.

I need attention

Re-read this 10 times. If you don't get nauseous then something is wrong and you haven't swallowed a damn thing. Take care of your own damn needs. Don't be needy. It's unattractive.

You said it yourself.

It's like "make sure your own mask is secure before attempting to assist other passengers".

[–]IRunYourRiver[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

Feeling the burn. Sometimes getting your ass kicked is the best thing that can happen.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Get your own house in order first. My wife does the same thing. With the power of order, you can establish boundaries.

She may fall in line, she may not. It's her choice.

But I have in no uncertain terms told my wife she has priorities, and if she can't meet them, someone else will.

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

"Firing the customer" was an advanced version of this whole thread. Maybe we need the basic version as some kind of resource, as I keep seeing this come up time and again?

[–]IRunYourRiver[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Alright, I give. Who is the customer?

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Search my posts.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Sometimes getting your ass kicked is the best thing that can happen.

So is realising you are missing the point.....

she bends over backwards in caretaking behavior for other people while laundry piles up

This is 100% her needing a purpose in her life. She feels good / needed / of value by doing these things for others. She does not get that at home. Partly because, well, it is just home chores, and partly because you are not appreciating the value she does bring. Me thinks.

[–]IRunYourRiver[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Meh, it's just not her thing - at least not right now. We're in a sort of tense situation which may or may not involve a Chad. The longer goal is building my frame and leading. These piddly little shit questions are always about a lot more.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

These piddly little shit questions are always about a lot more.

yes every time.

Your 2 months is not enough to get anything except perhaps a small reaction to change. Nothing happens quickly.

And going on the front foot re chad is also a questionable strategy (not saying you are, but its the default thing to do). Lift read, cultivate your DNGAF / life outside / abundance.

I can sense the urgent agitation coming through your posts. Been there.

[–]IRunYourRiver[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I was on front foot re: Chad pretty much all of last year. I was slowly realizing that I needed to work on myself. RP was the first place that put it all together and actually gave some suggestions about HOW to work on yourself and what kinds of outcomes you're looking for.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

Do what you want to do. I clean when I feel like it. Quit overthinking it.

[–]creating_my_life6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

She knows she’s not adding value to your life. You’re letting her get away with it. Why isn’t she afraid of you leaving her?

[–]Pepethe1stofHisName4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP the way to do this though, isn't to be a frustrated angry douche; as tempting as that might be.

It's to follow the steps of dread and demonstratively grow your value

[–]2ndalRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Be a leader. Set the example. In everything you do.

[–]Citizen_ATL2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

This is where people forget that red pill is sexual strategy. It's not marriage counseling.

Would single you invite a chick over to a messy house to have sex? Would you think she'd still be attracted to you after going into your nasty ass bathroom?

Then why would your wife be attracted to you after you leave toothpaste in the sink and shit stains on the toilet?

Be attractive. Don't be unattractive.

What's unattractive is some douchebag micromanaging his lady about whether or not she did her fair share of the dishes that day "cause he earns the money"

[–]IRunYourRiver[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

We're never out of the sexual marketplace.

[–]Citizen_ATL0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If you want to have sex, that's dead on.

[–]BostonBrakeJob1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

If only there was a book we could recommend to people like you...

Mods, could you guys put up some info in the sidebar please?

[–]IRunYourRiver[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I finished NMMNG and MMSLP is on the way. Remember, I've only been at this for two months. Is there one that speaks to this more directly?

[–]BostonBrakeJob1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

NMMNG, and namely covert contracts...for now. u/UEMcGill gave you great advice for the other side of the coin.

But basically, clean the house because you want a clean house. Try not to resent her for not living up to your expectations, whether you've communicated them or not. Easier said than done, at first, but keep at it until you don't even have to think about it.

Start there, and keep reading/applying. Moving forward, try making decisions and dealing with the consequences (negative or positive) THEN come here with a field report or questions about what may be hanging you up.

[–]IRunYourRiver[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Riight. It's a covert contract. Those fuckers are everywhere.

[–]friendandadvisor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You mean that there is a sidebar? Already??

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Does she fuck?

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

If she’s not fucking you 3 x’s a week minimum, the answer is no

[–]IRunYourRiver[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Kind of. It's getting better.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I fucking hate dirty, disorganized messes.

I pay the bills or they don’t get paid. They will stay in disorganized piles of shit and we will have no electricity if I don’t take charge.

I clean because I want it clean, always have.

SO is an amazing cook. When I cook, she cleans.

SO now takes the cue and cleans regularly before I do. When she doesn’t, I do.

Hmm, what’s the pattern here ?

[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Swabbing the decks and getting things shipshape is the captain's responsibility. If I stepped on a ship that was in a shit state I would question what sort of captain runs this boat but I digress.

The captain can deligate the deck scrubbing and what not to the first officer or the other shipmates they can either do it or not but if it dosent get done the captain needs to step up and do it. The captain is also responsible for keeping the crew inline when they don't do what they need to do and if necessary replace them.

[–]lionmenden1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're getting advice to clean if something is dirty and it's bothering you, and not overthink it. That's good advice when your wife is pulling her own weight. That is not the case here.

My wife works part time but spends way too much time with her job, seems to be always on FaceCrack, and will offer to help another family at the slightest inkling.

Your wife is not pulling her weight because she doesn't want to pull her weight for you, but she'll do it for your neighbors. You need to do three things, establish boundaries, lead her, and become a man she wants to follow. Tell her "The house is not as clean as I like or expect. I understand that you work, but you work part time so that you're able to take care of the house, and that's not happening. You have time to be on Facebook, and I want you to reprioritize that time to taking care of the house." Call her out on both the house and the social media. Don't DEER about how she cleaned recently, or she's tired, or there's dust there, but look here this part is clean, just stay away from all this. When she tries, just tell her she's not meeting your expectations.

Then help her come up with a solution, that's how you lead someone. "What if you come up with a rotation, vacuum every Wednesday, clean toilets on Thursday, break it down into manageable chunks." Help her understand your expectations and a concrete way to meet them. Call her out if she continues to not meet them.

Most of all, become a man that she wants to follow and instinctively take care of. Because right now you are lower on her priority list than your neighbors and her high school friends on Facebook. Lift. Read the sidebar. Lead your wife and your life.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Stop LARPing red pill, Mr. I Put On My Robe And Wizard Hat.

I swear, some of these comments... I wonder how people make it to adulthood, let alone function as adults.

Step 1. YOU NEED FRAME, FOOL. Stop being wishy washy. Fix your damn frame. It's not about the house.

[–]IRunYourRiver[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Geez, tell me about it.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Cleaning is for faggots with no life.

Do like I did. Dump the wife and hire a maid.

House will always be clean.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I don't know why you were down voted. Sometimes the point flies over peoples head.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not me. middle aged mexican lady is cleaning as we speak

the ol ladies laundry is still folded in a neat pile from 2 weeks ago when they folded it for her last time

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I could pay a maid to clean the house.

I could pay a hooker to suck my dick.

But then what would my wife do?

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You have to pay to get your dick sucked?

That sucks faggot.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Clean the house when your wife won't or make her live in the mess while I do what I want?

Yeah your wife will live in the mess but so will you. You’re already doing it that’s why you’re here. You think that because you make the money she should clean. There’s nothing wrong with that either because it’s sharing the workload. My wife was stay at home until she could legally work so I knew I would have dinner ready every night when I came in.

I didn’t use the word expected, I knew because I told her the ground rules. I bring home the bacon and you cook it. Simple, fair and reasonable. It appears that you, like others stated, have a covert contract. You expect your wife to do what you want without telling her exactly what it is that you want.

If I wanted my wife to clean the house I’d lead by example. If you’re not cleaning the house why should she care? The King doesn’t care so why should she? You’ve got to realize that you are operating under her frame by not cleaning. Unless your frame includes being a slob which it doesn’t sound likely or else you wouldn’t be here sharing your story.

You should live in the house how you would if you were single. You don’t need your wife to cook, clean your room, do your laundry or wipe your ass. If she isn’t doing those things and isn’t fucking you then you you’ve found an excellent opportunity to reduce your costs by half.

[–]WolfofAllStreetz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't like a dirty house either. I'm OCD so I clean my castle.

[–]mtwinemn0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Solid response by u/UEMcGill. I had the exact same question/situation in my first post..sad to look at.

I take care of anything that annoys me around the house. Dishes, bed, bathrooms, laundry, groceries and she's starting to pick up on it..SLOWLY. Been at it for 3 months..still new. End of the day I'm not living like a slob. I'm not having dishes laying around the house. I'm not having clothes laying around everywhere. THAT's for me. I don't like it. (no i don't do her laundry, i just throw her shit in the basket if it's laying around. Don't care if it's shoes, clothes, clean/dirty. The basket is the sorting area for her and her mess. )

She got mouthy with me the other day about having time for her. as another user told me "I have a standards to the house I live in, if you want me to spend more time with you then take care of xyz otherwise I don't have time"...something along those lines.

I also got whiny bitchy "what did you do today?" not too long ago. I calmly walked her around the house showed her everything I've done, remodels, mowing, painting, clean rooms, and calmly told her "don't ever come at me with that tone about doing things again" initiated later, she wanted an apology, didn't happen; nothing to be sorry for. Got a bj the next morning in a part of the house she swore she'd never fool around in. YMMV and I don't recommend this last portion...usually acta non verba...but my wife sometimes needs an audio tour.

^^^^using u/UEMcGill reward system could have prevented this. Going to implement this immediately.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do you want to live in a mess? Do that.

Like things clean? Delegate and do the shit yourself that your inept wife can't do.

You are thinking too much, yet somehow are reading very slowly.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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