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April 4, 2017


I have only recently swallowed the red pill (about 2 months ago). I was lifting prior to swallowing and I have read through the sidebar. I have been cautious to take things slowly over the course of 6 to 12 months and am trying to avoid Red Pill Rambo. Our bedroom has not been completely dead, but 2-5 times per month when things are “normal”. We have four kids and the last pregnancy about 3 years ago things got really bad for me. She goes on bedrest the last 3-5 months due to preterm labor. Sex is a no go, doctor’s orders (not her fault). Then, newborn + breastfeeding = zero libido (sort of her fault, but hormones I kind of get some of it). Let’s just say I had two or three wet dreams in that time frame the sex was so infrequent. Pathetic to think a married grown ass man can still get a wet dream. NoFap and no porn.

Even though I probably should have never put up with any of that I did. It hasn’t been until recently that the IDGAF attitude has started to come out even though I am trying to temper it a little bit to avoid becoming Rambo.

About a year ago, my wife started pushing for child number five. About a few weeks before this I had a pretty strong conviction that we should be done at four. However, I said I would consider it and I agonized for about 7-8 months over whether to do it or not. If I agree, I have no doubt the sex will be amazing for the time it takes to get her preggers. After that, I am probably looking at some more wet dreams in the near future.

I have always been blue pill. I was raised religious (still am religious) and was always taught to be a nice boy. She was always taught to be a good girl and suffers from good girl syndrome as many things in the bedroom are off limits (never had a blow job, ever, sigh…). We are each others firsts. I hope to change that someday once I man up, but I feel I will never be successful until I can start making some progress with one major roadblock. If I start some of that now it will freak her out big time. There is a lack of attraction that I need to resolve first.


She resents me for not agreeing to child number five. I can with 100% confidence say that this is the Genesis of the most recent tension in the relationship. She feels God has told her to have number five. I being religious as well, am fully confident that God is telling me “no way”. After agonizing over this for about 7-8 months we finally had a conversation where I told her the answer is “no”, but I think I also left the door open too wide as I said I am open to changing my mind. I think in her mind she interpreted this as “not yet”. While I certainly reserve the right to change my mind, I don’t think it is going to happen.

So, I start getting into red pill. Start realizing that I have been asleep at the wheel and not leading the relationship as I should. She has always been the sexual gatekeeper. I get the groceries, do any little job, and have been the worst covert contract beta ever. I have started tying up the little loose ends around the house, being more assertive in setting up date nights, not getting butthurt when sex is declined, planning family events, deciding where to go eat and only changing if there is an objection and suggestion for somewhere else.

However, I still am resented. She feels that I am shattering her dreams by not agreeing to a fifth child and that she can no longer trust me.


The only real tests I have encountered since the red pill are as follows. I consider them minor, but were events nonetheless that got a bigger response out of her than expected.

  1. Got turned down for sex pretty directly, this was about the first week after the pill. I didn’t handle it well (I have done better since then). Kind of rolled over to sleep butthurt and acted like a pussy. Didn’t really talk much the next day. Was reading one of the sidebar books about getting out and doing more manly activities/hobbies. Guys at our church play basketball Thursday nights at 9PM at night. I always loved basketball in high school. So, I bought shoes that day and lunch and when I came home told her I was going to play that night. I ALWAYS stayed at home at night and watched TV with her. This was Red Pill Rambo to her. After a few days, she approached me and said she didn’t really want me to play basketball. I told her that I have been missing basketball, that I needed it, and that it was one night a week. She didn’t push back any further and shut up really quickly. We rarely confront each other. I never rocked the boat before.

  2. Not a huge deal, but I had a differing opinion. Two of my daughters have birthdays within 6 days of each other. Birthdays are completely stupid at our house. Usually they get planned around what is most convenient for her or the grandparents. If a birthday party doesn’t fall on a “good” day, we will have a birthday party 2-3 weeks early. If the birthday itself falls on a bad day, we will move it. Some shifting of parties is actually fine with me, but when we celebrate a kids birthday three times (one with grandparents, one with friends, and one with school) and we actually don’t celebrate anything on their birthday itself I have a problem. The bigger problem is that though I may have bitched about this in the past I didn’t do anything. This year, she wanted to combine two of my daughter’s parties. I finally stood up to her and told her that we need to be thinking about the girls and not about us or the grandparents and what is convenient. She got really mad, quiet, probably cried, but in the end split everything up into two parties on their actual birthdays. Still have grandparents invited though, so I still have a little bit more to do. Regardless, I was more confrontational/assertive than she has seen me be before and she got butthurt.

  3. Once again, we are religious, and we both feel pretty strongly that our kids should be active in church activities. At age twelve, there is a youth group that meets every week. We have both discussed years ago the importance of making sure that our kids participate each week at these activities unless there is a really good valid reason not to. We both went through the same program and have mentioned how the kids that didn’t do this had some unnecessary struggles in life. My daughter is only two months into this program as she just turned twelve. Yesterday, I come home and my wife says that the activity this week is volleyball. My daughter is a lot of things, but she is not athletic. My wife asked my daughter if she wanted to go and she said “no thanks”. My wife thought this was cute and texted it back to the youth leaders. I may be blowing this out of proportion, but I feel very strongly that my kids should be around this youth group. So, I told my wife that she needs to be there. She tried to tell me that she doesn’t like volleyball (which she doesn’t) and that she would just take her to do something else. I dug in and said that this is less about volleyball and more about the importance we are demonstrating to our kids about making friends in this group. I said very firmly that she needs to be there. Wife hasn’t really spoken to me since. However, I stumbled across internet history this morning where she has been googling about a “dominating spouse”.

Have I been so passive that even with these small events I have gone Red Pill Rambo? I sort of feel that I just need to stay the course and keep the throttle right about where it is as anything more might be too much too soon for her. Anyways, I need some input on my progress, advice on where to go from here, or a keep grinding away to get back in control of this thing.

I plan to start hanging out with a high school friend a little bit more, doing some more things with my older brother, and then eventually going to a nearby gym rather than lifting at my house. I am going to try and slowly introduce these into the mix without doing them all at once.

EDIT: Thanks for all of the support. I think I needed it to help me know I am going down the right path. I appreciated the words of wisdom and caution from some of you RP veterans. Perhaps someday I can return the favor to someone in my circumstance as right now I have no business offering advice of any kind to anybody. Once I can stand on my own I may be able to share what I will have learned over the next year or so. Probably won't be my last post, but if you hear from me regularly I probably need a kick in the head because I am probably doing it wrong. Advice and encouragement is nice, but I have to fix this on my own.

Post Information
Author justpickanyusername
Upvotes 7
Comments 80
Date 04 April 2017 10:24 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
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Red Pill terms found in post:
butthurtbetaframenofapliftassertivethe red pillthe blue pillcovert contract

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (10 children) | Copy

If you're Mormon you've got a hard road ahead. She didn't marry you for you. She married you to check boxes and get into super special Mormon heaven. You're a sperm donor. And what about receiving revelation for the family? Apparently her talks with god mean more.

Anyway, you can learn frame and lift and some game, but it won't work until you challenge all your beliefs. Until you tear down all your preconceived notions, you'll still be blue pill. You'll still be following the same, unwinnable script that was written for you. Maybe you can make it work in a Mormon framework but I don't see it happening

[–]johnnycake883 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Ding ding ding ding ding. We have a winner.

On the kid thing you can pull the head of household priesthood holder thing and that will/should strike a serious chord in her to follow your impressions. But honestly, you are just a biological contributor for her to be able to check a box, look at the floor, and say yes.

[–]amalgamator0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

This guy gets it

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Gets what?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

In the LDS faith, there's 3 heavens. The highest one, where god and Jesus live, is reserved for faithful mormons. In that heaven there are higher levels. To achieve the highest you have to be married in a Mormon temple and have kids.

Many women will not marry a man unless he's served a Mormon mission and they get married in the temple. The level of sexual dysfunction is through the roof in Mormon marriages because of purity doctrine.

In theory, the Mormon church could be a pretty cool RP faith, with men leading the home and women being supportive, focusing on raising kids. In practice, the church makes men into the ultimate Nice Guys. Blind obedience is mandated. Critical thinking is discouraged. The only moral point of origin is what you're told.

There's tons of subtext and nuances within the Mormon culture, but essentially people don't get married out of love. They get married so they can get to the highest heaven and have sex. I know I did.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I just learned some really weird shit this morning.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

this is like some weird ass video game where certain tasks get you to finish the game with a higher score....

right? I mean ... huh?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

This level map should clear it up.

Additional strategies include temple work to retroactively move pre-LDS people into the win column. Penalties that handicap your entire family (dead and living relatives and decedents) for all eternity if anyone abandons the church. Careful vetting of families for baggage prior to marriage. And of course the ever popular sabotaging of rival families for all eternity to achieve various church political goals, etc.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy


[–]johnnycake880 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Welcome to my upbringing.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm also Mormon. 39 years old, married 15 years with 4 kids. I'm a bit further down the Red Pill road than you are, as I swallowed the Pill last August. You didn't mention your age or how long you've been married, but given that you have a 12 year old daughter I'm guessing you're similar to my situation.

I agree 100% with /u/redmountainpill that being Mormon you have a hard(er) road ahead, for the reasons he stated, but it is not an impossible task.

For various reasons, Mormons produce great male leaders in the business world, community and church, but we are failing to lead in our own homes. I've noticed that Mormon men tend to be more passive in the home, perhaps because Mormon women tend to be the gatekeepers of sex. There was a time when my wife wouldn't have sex with me unless I had shaved. She wouldn't have sex with me unless I rubbed her feet every night, left her love notes, brought home flowers or other gifts, etc. She wouldn't have sex with me unless I engaged in choreplay. So I went along to get along, just as I had been taught my whole life. I watched my dad give in to my domineering mother time and time again. I heard over and over "happy wife, happy life" and "it's better to be happy than to be right." Bullshit. Both of my parents are fucking miserable. And I started to see the same pattern in my relationship.

Like me, my wife was raised by a domineering mother and beta father. She is naturally more submissive, but the only thing she knew was what she had seen growing up. Her mom always got her way and her dad gave in. Just like my parents. So she didn't know how to respond when I started holding frame and not giving in to her demands. Guess who no longer gives the daily footrubs? Guess who has a beard? Guess who refuses to engage in choreplay? Guess who never leaves love notes? I stopped doing all of that shit, and ended the covert contract that accompanied each act. And my sex life has never been better. Blowjobs were never a problem, but anal and restraints were both 100% off the table. Until now. One night we were talking after sex, and I asked what her fantasies are. She couldn't think of any, but she asked me for mine. I told her I wanted to tie her up, and that I wanted to try anal. She was shocked that I would want to be dominant in bed, as she had "assumed" that I wanted her to take the lead in bed. She told me she was open to being tied down, but would never be open to trying anything anal. Progress.

That conversation made me realize that I had fucked up by not being the leader she needed and that she was doing her best to fill the role that I had vacated. So we bought some restraints that we now keep under the bed for when the mood strikes. And she loves it. Again, prior to August she was 100% against being tied up. Blowjobs have become more than just something for her to check off her to-do list ... she sucks my dick every time we have sex and loves it when I pull her hair. Progress. Then I started noticing her browser history had a lot of Google searches about anal sex. Her hamster in action. On Valentines day she got me a book about anal sex and some anal lube. And opened the back door. And then we did it again during shark week. Progress. Don't worry too much about your wife's Google searches, that's just her hamster in action. When she starts searching about sex you'll know you're on the right path.

So my advice to you is to keep moving forward, but beware of fuckarounditis, which applies equally to your MAP as it does in the gym. You say you have read the sidebar and you're lifting. That's a good start. But have you created a detailed MAP that you are working? I didn't get that impression from your post. As much as your wife may initially resist your leadership, she also craves it. I know firsthand that the number 1 complaint Mormon women in my congregation have about their husbands is they are not leading in the home. So you need to lead. Consistently. Right now she doesn't take you seriously because for 13 years you've been a pussy and letting her captain the ship. So it will take some time for her to realize you're both serious and capable. One month for every year of marriage, so you've got at least another 11 months, possibly more, although if you do it right you'll start to see progress sooner than later. Best of luck.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nailed it. And yes, for the record, I am LDS. I also don't think RP is out of line with Christian and Mormon doctrine. Only that some of those principles need to be approached and looked at from a different perspective and lens to have them make sense. It can be taken too far though in my opinion as TRP talks about spinning plates etc., but everyone will have different limits and boundaries in what they want out of it. Like I have heard repeated a number of times that RP is amoral. It is more of a concept and we can apply our own morality to it.

I am 35 and she is 33. As far as oral, I have eaten her out maybe 5-7 times. First few times I wasn't too sure about the taste. But, now I think I crave it. I am pretty sure she loved it and came while doing it. She couldn't bring herself to do it to me though. There was a time when I think she would have. She made sure we showered etc. and then started kissing me all over. I could tell she was curious and would hover near my dick and pause. She kissed it once and then lost courage and stopped. This was about a year and a half ago. I was about a year into lifting and got comments on my muscles regularly. I was actually doing MAP and not really knowing it. Had I swallowed the red pill before then it probably would have happened. So, I know I can get her back there at some point.

Right now, I feel strongly that I should not even remotely push anything like this. She doesn't really even have much desire to have sex let alone start exploring new things. I need to get the attraction back first. Once that happens then I will be sure to lead further in bed and not drop the ball. I think we are both a little too reserved and worried about letting our guard down sexually. MMSLP advocates the man leading this and helping her feel comfortable and to bring out that inner slut. I have failed there big time.

There is a small debate in the Mormon world over whether some of that stuff is considered "impure or unholy" which is a hurdle I will have to cross with her since I believe she is currently on the other side of that fence though I am pretty sure not by much. She has told me she is "unsure" of the whole "oral thing". Which is definitely not a hard no. She will come around. I have done a fair amount of research even on the Mormon doctrine side of things with this. From my analysis and research, just about anything and everything goes in the bedroom as long as it is only between husband and wife and the other requirement is that one or the other is not forced to do something they don't want to do. Other than that, there really is no doctrine and enjoy. Each couple will have a different set of rules and circumstances that they can establish. The church stays out of the bedroom. They only muddied the waters on this issue with a letter back in 1982.

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

I say hit the accelerator. A deeply religious woman with four small kids isn't going to go anywhere.

Also, you DEERed on basketball. You don't owe her any explanation at all for wanting to play ball. Hell, you don't even have to tell hr where you went.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think you are 100% right that she isn't going to go anywhere. I suppose we all have our breaking points, but I am nowhere even close to that for her.

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Right. So focus on you for a while. The storm may rage a bit, but she'll still be there.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Careful there big boy. Mormons invented the welfare state.

[–]mrpthrowa0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

A deeply religious woman with four small kids isn't going to go anywhere.

careful here, awalt. She will still branch swing, make herself available and all that.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree that AWALT, but she has a pretty long road to get there with where she is right now. I have plenty of wiggle room before she would check out of the marriage and branch swing. In all honesty, I could probably turn into the biggest prick of a husband and she would just put up with it and be miserable. Maybe up until when the kids leave the house. Obviously, all of this up unto a certain point. We all have limits. Also, my goal is not to be a prick. I think TRP doesn't really care whether you are a prick or not, but MRP is a little different in that you want to introduce Alpha characteristics. Too much Alpha and your a dick. Too much Beta and your a pussy. The balance is somewhere in the middle which I need to find. It has been all Beta for 13 years and probably only some accidental Alpha moments sprinkled in there.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

"Have I been so passive that even with these small events I have gone Red Pill Rambo?"

So this brings up a great point

What is Red Pill Rambo ? Going to damned fast with the sole intent of her putting out. It's doing the work so she will fuck you. It's going so intense that she can't recognize the angry fuck you have become, by sprinkling a little magic dust on you for 5 seconds, thinking, I'm done. Respond bitch

So, here is my thinking. MRP is strategy to have more sex, but the outcome is something different once you apply the work.

You will see the Blue Pill Brigade charging that we intend blowing up our marriages, fucking up our LTR's and becoming angry motherfuckers, beating our chests

In reality, by identifying the man and his problems, (Remember MRP is Red Pill on Hard Mode) MRP points out that he refuses to hold himself accountable for his behavior, not taking responsibility in his actions, communication and overall happiness in his life- essentially turning into a sad sack of shit and then blaming the wife. Especially, because she cut off sex.

So back to you. She googled "dominating spouse."

Youth Group and Parenting

If you are a parent, and the you apparently are the father in this family, you have input. And, it is imperative that when you sign a child up for something as important as youth group, she attends all activities and functions, geting the experience and building cohesion with a group/team. Good or bad, they are life building skills There is nothing wrong with your input of having your daughter learn to sign up for something and attend all functions, because in reality as an adult she will not be allowed to cherry pick all things

Birthday Parties/Parenting/Celebration I am total agreement three parties and none on their birthdays is BS One on there actual birthday is important and no, planning it around others schedule is BS. They were born on that day Your input as the other parent is important, because it again finds balance, and you point out validity in the actual day itself. Correct ?

Sexual Rejections/Outlets/Activities/Hobbies

We talk about this repeatedly and lot's of MRP'ers immediately take to the Rambo Road and totally go deaf mute, withdrawing time and attention as punishment. No, the course of action is to get a fucking life and plans outside of the house anyway so you are not up her ass day and night. If you happen to be on the way out the door and the moment spurns you because she get's your motor running and you initiate, and she says no, you are not sulking, butthurt, etc because you had something on your mind already, right ?

MRP info can be mis interpreted and a lot do just that and really fuck up a good thing. But they did not read, actualize the materials and think before doing

"I am going to try and slowly introduce these into the mix without doing them all at once."

And, so the above statement is made by a husband that looks into doing the work, reflects and asks, am I fucking up ? Am, I going to fast ? Or, has he actually started to participate in his own life, marriage and parenting ? What is really going on ? Is is she was so used to making all the decisions and you finally woke the fuck up and saw some kind of needs to be met ?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

I might disagree on the volleyball.

If the daughter is shy, introverted and not athletic, it's not going to be a bonding, learning, great experience for her. Especially at 12 years old. She's going to be horrified and embarrassed. Other 12 year olds will smell blood and turn on her.

I think it's a bad idea. Let her join in activities that she's comfortable with, but let her choose to skip ones where she's going to embarrass herself.

[–]mrpthrowa1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Whatever he decided on volleyball is his own subjective call - he saw it fit for her to go, end of. Frame is subjective, there is no point to any post DEERing and counter DEERing.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I really like to project with my kids to start and finish strong, no matter what it is. There are good things and bad.

My boy is an Eagle Scout. West Point called me 2x week to habd him interview with our member of congress. How many times do you actually think I let him choose not to do ? Let me tell you he attended as much as he could, then I would take him to confirmation class. You think I let him quit that ?

Always set a hi bar as the parent

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

This helps me feel that I am at least on the right path. I know a lot of the events above are pretty trivial, but they provide some insight into what I have going on.

Not sure what her state of mind will be when I get home. She hasn't texted me at all today. I had a couple of logistical things to communicate and she did respond, but not the normal communications we have. I plan on coming home and maintaining good frame for the kids and being the fun dad tonight. With her, do I just let her stew on this and give her space? Or, do I just go about talking with her like nothing is wrong?

At this point, I have no problem poking the bear as I am confident I can handle what happens when it wakes up, but I am not sure it is better to let the bear sleep and let it wake up when it is ready.

[–]mrpthrowa2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

do I just go about talking with her like nothing is wrong?

Yup. If she sulks ignore.

The subtext:

You: Hi, everything is normal, I'm having fun and I'm doing the right things for the family. I think you exist but you're either on board or you keep waiting at the bus stop.

Her: I'm butthurt and I want you to suck up to me.

You: I see right through you, and I do not care.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's actually what I did last night. She was obviously keeping her distance. I think she wanted to say something or talk about it last night, but never brought it up. I never really offered her a chance. Went to bed and I rolled over pretty quickly. She just recently contracted a cold and it is shark week, so there really wasn't much need to push for anything. Plus, the next morning was a lifting day and I was getting up at 5AM, so I just went to sleep. I am pretty sure I heard her sniffling. I haven't been terribly affectionate the last few days, but I also haven't been completely aloof or silent. It may come up at some point, it may not.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Parenting is not trivial

Your input is not trivial.

If your girls are going to pick strong men, you need to show them what one looks like. I said strong, not Red Pill Rambo Dick

Let her stew.

I don't know if you noticed, but must women say shit one day, sleep and the next, act like nothing happened

Your turn

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

By changing something she had already texted, you caused some conflict. Honestly, if you were passive enough to let her send the text, I'd say "next time" instead of fighting about this time. But water under the bridge. Now that you drew a boundary, figure out how to defend it. If you let her NOT go you've got a REAL problem.

I'd also suggest a hobby where you make something valuable or do something pleasurable. Basketball is good, but I'm thinking something other people can appreciate - could be cooking, could be guitar, could be art. Make something. Become a producer, not a consumer.

Going out ~2 times a week seems like a good step. Once during the week, once each weekend. Have something to do.

[–]mrpthrowa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

By changing something she had already texted, you caused some conflict. Honestly, if you were passive enough to let her send the text, I'd say "next time" instead of fighting about this time.

Fuck that shit. He decided for them to go, she called off volleyball without consultation. Major disrespect.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good advice. She will go to be "cheering on" the other girls in their volleyball tournament. I would really like to see her participate even though she will be awful at volleyball. My daughter is a little introverted and sometimes you've got to fake it until you make it. At least that is what I am doing. However, I think you are probably right and I should step back and not push any farther than what I have. I have already pushed enough to make things uncomfortable.

Have always wanted to learn guitar. Probably time to dust off the Jamstik I bought a year ago and actually get through the lessons.

[–]PaperStreetVilla1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Rambo had his knife, everyone remembers it.

Of course, you've never used a knife before, so you're holding a spoon, praying you don't kill russian generals.

All I'll say on your Zombie Jewish Carpenter script is this... Replace your proclomation of faith with 'too tired' and it reads like an excuse/crutch.

Surely the book that talked about some hardcore slaughter of Canaanites and calf worshippers has a passage in there for proper bitch management.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

yea see, they were managed by allowing their existence past having a kid.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I'm guessing Mormon? (Former Mormon here...)

So when we talk about going Rambo, what we mean is that suddenly a man sees just what a bitch he's been and he's going to flip his whole life upside down and be the alpha male now!!! Collateral damage be damned.

The standard advice I give is to wait to change any dynamics about your relationship with your wife. Your first steps are self improvement. Playing basketball is exactly the right thing. You are doing something for yourself and you have exactly ZERO reason to apologize for it. Her emotions are her problem. It's a completely reasonable thing to do.

The thing with your daughters is that you are the captain, BUT she is still first mate. You need to take her advice and weigh it carefully. The final decision is yours, but you shouldn't just completely disregard what she says. I believe what you did with the birthdays was exactly the right call. The volleyball not so much.

I don't see any major red flags I how you're approaching this.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for the overall vote of confidence even though I have a long painful path ahead. The volleyball thing I agree is probably pretty trivial and I could be on the wrong side of it. It kind of mushroomed into something bigger which is why it made the post. Not necessarily the hill I would choose to die on, but I certainly don't mind digging in for a battle on it. Yes, you nailed it, as a former youth leader myself the kids that we struggled to bring into the group were the ones that were aloof and didn't want to participate. I get it that there will be times when the activity might suck, but it typically is only for an hour or so and is something new to try. I might be overly sensitive on something so small. I guess it was more of a precedent that I was worried about than the actual activity itself. Makes it too easy to wiggle out of things she doesn't like in the future that could do her some good.

[–]nastynickdrRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Dont worry, you are far from red pill rambo. You are on the way to finding your balls back, keep going. Cut the DEERing. You have all the right in the world to play basketball one night per week, you dont have to explain her why, she doesnt have to like it. You wanting to do it is enough reason. Dont forget, you are your own judge and you should be leading your family. And yeah, you shouldnt knock her up again, unless you REALLY want another child (YOU want, not her).

[–]TexasThomas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well at least you're here and on the right track.....but first of all, from one Christian to another, please don't cheat on your wife. You don't need that. Your marriage and family are too important to risk. Not to mention this kind of thing can damage your faith; happily-sinning does that. Your marriage might not be perfect but it's worth protecting. Part of being RP is standing up and sticking to your guns, defending and celebrating your moral foundation. I wouldn't push this advice onto non-Christians here, as they can make up their own moral foundation...but you and I both know what ours is.

In other news, your wife needs to understand the difference between "domineering" and "leading." What you described is hardly domineering. I'm curious if your wife tends to be critical of you or talks back to you...if that's the case she probably doesn't respect you.... And if that's the case you need to man up. The only way she is going to settle into the feminine (which is her natural state) is if you man up and allow her to do so. If you are not playing your role, she is being forced to play your role for might check out a book from a fellow Christian Dr. Corey Allan called "Naked Marriage." He also has a weekly podcast that he co-hosts about sex in marriage. He is from the school of Dr. Glover, David Deida, (The Way of the Superior Man) Schnarch (Passionate Marriage)...good stuff....good show...lots of back episodes stretching back 4 or 5 years.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Honestly, I don't really get the talking back and disrespect surprisingly. I think that is more because she respects God and less about respect for me. She HATES any conflict. To her, disagreement = fighting no matter how civilly it is handled. In the face of any conflict she will shutdown, stop talking, and cry. Former beta me couldn't stand that she was sad and knew that until I could get her happy again that there wasn't going to be any sex. As a result, I have never really tried to rock the boat. So, there is no outward form of blatant disrespect, but I know that she does not respect me. No real attraction as a result.

I realize this is beta and probably a little autistic, but it finally dawned on me that she hasn't given me an unsolicited "I love you" for who knows how long. If I say it, she will return it, but I think it is more because she doesn't want to create more conflict by not saying it. Regardless, she doesn't feel it. That's my fault. I only use it as a marker to know where I stand in the relationship.

Also, cheating is not an option. If it ever fell completely apart it would only be after I have tried everything I possibly could do. I made a commitment to her. By being a pussy I have given her a lesbian marriage when she only wants to be with a man. Though she has some role in this that is my bad not hers.

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Re: no I love you's . . .

I've been there. Forget about where you stand in the relationship. Get to a place where what matters is where she stands in the relationship to you. You're the prize.

[–]BobbyPeru0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This was Red Pill Rambo to her.

Get out of her frame. It doesn't matter what's RPR to her if it's actually RP in reality. Having hobbies and having the balls to do them is RP.

[–]drty_prRed Beret0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Does your religion prevent you from getting a vasectomy?

Your birth control is your responsibility. The rest of the post is basic OYS stuff, but the possibility of #5 is something worth talking about.

What are your present forms of birth control?

[–]rebbit_reddit0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I agree. Get a vasectomy without her knowing. Then tell her you're willing to try for another baby. Every night

[–]johnnycake882 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

That is absolute weak shit. "I'm gonna be so in charge/alpha I'm gonna sneak around to get my balls snipped so I can trick my wife into having lots of sex with me thinking we're trying to get pregnant"

[–]rebbit_reddit0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Calm your tits. It's a joke

[–]gixxerthouguy0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

That's golden advice. It might not be God's will for his wife to get pregnant again!

[–]rebbit_reddit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

He works in mysterious ways

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

/u/strategos_autokrator's post on How to build boundaries during your transition is very insightful and well written, and will likely be helpful to you and your situation. I think you will find most of /u/strategos_autokrator's posts very useful; I recommend that you read them.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Religion wise it is frowned upon as a hard stop to procreation. However, it is also not complete no no. I am personally not against it at some point, but I have some personal concerns about getting it done to be honest. I've heard it is mostly safe, but I have heard some really weird stories and potential complications. Also, though I don't want #5, I think I am not ready to go that route yet. Currently, it is all condoms unless she only has a few days left on her cycle. This method has worked for 13 years.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I got a vasectomy last April after using the same method of birth control as you for 10 years. I had complications -- specifically, I found out the hard way that I have lidocaine intolerance. I felt EVERYTHING. Was it worth it? Absofuckinglutely.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I will be taking a look. Thanks!

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The sperm donor concept has crossed my mind more than once. I am hoping it has been more than that, but she has been her most freaky, if that's even possible, during baby making sex. I think that might hold true for everyone else too though as women are wired to crave that.

[–]mrpthrowa0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Some comments:

Start realizing that I have been asleep at the wheel and not leading the relationship as I should

You need to do more of this in all areas. Careful not to be confrontational for the sake of it - don't concentrate on the things that you disagree on.

3) Is about you asserting what the kids should do. Everything they do or don't should run by you. Her calling off volleyball on her own is a red flag.

“dominating spouse”.

This is one of those "feminism" key words. I'd watch her attitude to the whole equality and feminism nonsense. How does she behave in this department?

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Honestly, I don't think she is all that feminist or liberal for that matter. Typical christian conservative. I do think the equality in marriage thing is something she believes in. I probably did too up until a few months ago. The captain and first mate thing is probably the best analogy to describe how it works rather than co-captain. We will stall on decisions because I want to make sure she is on board with them. She is probably waiting for me to make up my damn mind. From now on, my approach will be more of making the decision, but yet also listening if the first mate has an objection and makes a good point. Which is probably how it should be. We each have different roles in an equal marriage. I just haven't been fulfilling mine.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I'm a fedora tipping euphoric atheist, but my advice would be to not defer to God on your decisions, especially with her. Don't ever say "God is telling me this" or that, or whatever. That will get you no where. Religious guys have a rough time because in the eyes of their wives, God is the ultimate alpha. You can't compete with that so you just need to make your decisions, and live life from within your own frame while you're here on earth. If you defer to God for your decisions, your wife will never really respect you. If you want to pray and reflect on stuff on your own, that's totally fine, but don't tell her that God is making your decisions. Sure, maybe you prayed and got some insight, but at the end of the day, the decisions you make are your own, and you need to own them.

Also, what you call resentment, I would call a shit test. Don't DEER about why you don't want a 5th kid. If you know that a 5th kid is a bad idea, you should be 100% confident and not need to explain yourself. Don't pass the buck off onto God, that's weak. You are the man and the leader of your family. God gave you the ability to think logical and rationally and make good decisions grounded in reality. You don't need to explain or defend anything.

You and your wife sound pretty super serious, but maybe try to agree and amplify next time she is shit testing you about a 5th kid. Why stop at 5? Go for double digits and get 10. Or tell her that you already have 5 kids with your other secret family and it's too much if a hassle. I don't know. Keep it light and don't defend your decisions. Good luck bro.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I know you are not religious and I totally respect that. For me, however, who is I have learned a lot recently. In the religious sense, God has some pretty black and white commandments and some "thou shalts and thou shalt nots", but overall there are things where he really just wants us to decide for ourselves and roll with it. Though I will say that having more kids is a big decision, God will likely not intervene unless something is really out of whack. I got dressed today and didn't ask God what I should wear. If it were negative 80 degrees outside and I threw on some shorts, God might give me a heads up that I should probably wear something different so I don't die.

In other words, live your life to the fullest, make your own decisions, God will let you know if you are out of line, but don't ask God for every detail of your life and how to live it.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy

Im not going to call this RP Rambo, but I will definitely tell you that you are in the wrong on all of this. This post is centered around the actions of your wife and how they are affecting you. Completely wrong. For all these things if you want them different you make them different by yourself, not forcing your wife to do it.

The first time a guy leaves the house or changes routines in this program is a very big event for the wife. The comfortable rut has just been changed and not necessarily as in trying to keep you under thumb. More of, something is now different and she wants to know why. Women for whatever reason are very curious.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy

I already know the going to the gym thing will throw her off big time. Even when I started lifting at home a couple of years ago it did. I have always been skinny and the first day I started lifting and eating right I tipped that scales at a pathetic 150lbs even. I am 6'0" tall. I know weight 175lbs, but I have stalled recently. I only use a bench and dumbbells that top out at 70lbs. I have only in the last month or so dropped my reps down and started lifting heavier. Previously, I was do sets of 15,12,8 reps. Now I am at 8,6,6 with much heavier weight. It's amazing how much better I feel and I can already see some new results.

Though I am proud of 25lbs of new muscle which was purely newbie gains I have realized that dumbbells can take me no further. Time to lift real weights, at lower reps, and throw another 15-20lbs of muscle on.

The gym will throw her off because there is a social aspect to it. I personally will be there to lift and no other reason, but in the back of her mind she will be envisioning a gym full of hot chicks squatting in yoga pants right in front of me regardless of whether in reality it is a bunch of 300lb fat chicks eating Cheetos on the treadmill. It will add a little bit of DREAD and will hopefully get me the physique I have always wanted. Having some more strength has given me a lot more confidence. Can't believe I never started lifting earlier.

Right now, I would say I am no longer skinny and would have a body that passes as someone who is "active". Really wanting to look ripped. I need the gym for that.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Lol, yeah I have to agree. Just because a chicken has wings doesn't mean it can fly. The mental image of 300lb fat chicks eating chips on a treadmill. Definitely got a chuckle. I don't know who these people are who pick up "hot yoga chicks" from the gym. I'm fixing to get started on my new routine this Sunday for the 60DOD. Hope there will be more yoga chicks than fatties! Maybe you get lucky and she comes to the gym with you for her paranoia and ends up filling her shape.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

She actually looks really good. 4 kids and she weighs about 115lbs. Not really in shape though with nothing really tight and firm. I'm still down with it though. She could use a good routine and she would probably feel a whole lot better about herself getting in shape. She mentioned joining the same gym in the summer a while ago to workout and get the kids out of her hair. So, I think she will hop on board with me. I will probably still workout at 5AM though which she definitely won't do.

She has body image issues as most women probably do. She was about 140 in high school and has slimmed down considerably since we've been married. Never due to exercise though. She hates to sweat because she thinks she will breakout.

When I sign up I will probably ask her if she wants to join too. There is a very minor discount of like $3 a month if we both join together, so nothing real important.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No need to defend yourself, you are among other men here. I like the way you are framing this.

[–]trp_dude0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You have wife goggles on. You will know that you've swallowed the pill when you realize that she is a 5 or 6, instead of 9 or 10 you thought she was.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I already know the going to the gym thing will throw her off big time.


If you're going to bullshit yourself into her frame, just ask her to write your MAP for you. Use the most open and vulnerable communication style you can

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I really do think the gym is for me and not her. The dumbbell routine I have been using has brought me to a certain point, but it really can't take me any further. I need a bench, barbell, and a squat rack to take things where I want to go and to keep bulking up.

I do see your point about being careful about doing things within her frame. If I do things with the intent of how it will affect her then you are right I am in her frame. Probably will be for a little while until I get my skis pointed the right direction.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

If you did, you'd stop talking about her... at all.

Go read /u/bogeyd6 last OWS post. Notice when he talks about his situation.... you'd never know if he was single or not.

Thats when you know you're in your own frame

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Good to know where I stand and how far I have to go. Patience young grasshopper I suppose.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It takes time, alot of hard work, and a fearless self inventory. You got to get over yourself and stop pretending.

[–]tslextslex0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

You are the head of your household. You have abdicated that role, to some degree, for some time. You are now reasserting that role. So of COURSE there is going to be resistance and push back.

If you are a believing family then do not neglect to put this re-assertion in that context. You've failed (at least to a degree, at least for a while) so be honest with yourself and with your wife that you are reforming behavior that wasn't optimal. But she needs to understand that this isn't some sort of range war where -- since you failed to keep the other rancher off your range for long enough -- the fundamental rights have changed because of practice and he can now legally occupy that land. Put another way, the fact that you fell short on your obligations as the head of your household in the past didn't change those obligations, and the fact that she has gotten away with disrespecting and defying that role in the past doesn't change HER obligations either.

I would be more explicit about all this than a lot of RP guys would be. They'd call it DEERing, but I'd take her out to dinner -- or empty the house of kids -- and sit her down and say, explicitly, "I've fallen short as head of this household, and you've taken advantage of that and/or been left leaderless. Well that's over. I realize you're going to have to adjust. I understand it may be tough for you not to simply get your way all the time. But this is better for you and for us and for our children and I know that -- sooner than you think -- you are going to be happier and more secure, we are going to be closer, and our children are going to have a happier home."

Not a debate. Not even really a discussion. Just putting her on notice, then ordering dessert.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Have a single discussion about how you have taken a self inventory and didn't like what you saw, therefore you will be doing some self improvement isn't a bad thing. That's just logistics of letting her know that things are going to change.

Sure, she'll now take every opportunity to snidely claim that everything you do that she doesn't like is the new you, but that's when your aa and say, " yep, he's a pretty freaking awesome guy isn't he! I'd marry myself if it was legal!"

But at least this isn't just blind siding her.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I will have to think about this. It has crossed my mind earlier, but I read too many posts about guys telling their girl about the red pill, all the things they were going to be doing, and how awesome it was going to be. It seems like it really sabotages the game plan if she thinks you are following a script and it is not real change. Which in all honesty RP does advocate real change, leadership, manning up, owning your shit, or whatever you want to call it. I do think there can be some value if a comfort test pops up and I just tell her everything is fine, but things are going to change and to trust my lead.

Anyways, I need to think about this some more. I might be too weak to do this at the moment and end up saying something stupid and set myself back a few months. As long as she still knows I am committed to the family and can see that I am leading I am okay with a little mystery as long as it doesn't get too out of hand. Her hamster has been known to run in all kinds of weird directions leading her to some pretty whacked out conclusions.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You can tell her you are making self improvement changes without telling her anything about the red pill.

When she asks specifics, just say you'd rather not discuss it and end the conversation.

[–]trp_dude0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

They'd call it DEERing, but I'd take her out to dinner -- or empty the house of kids -- and sit her down and say, explicitly, "I've fallen short as head of this household, and you've taken advantage of that and/or been left leaderless. Well that's over. I realize you're going to have to adjust. I understand it may be tough for you not to simply get your way all the time. But this is better for you and for us and for our children and I know that -- sooner than you think -- you are going to be happier and more secure, we are going to be closer, and our children are going to have a happier home."

No. Too many words.

[–]Balldogs-5 points-4 points  (10 children) | Copy

Dude, you're both religious nutbars. God isn't telling either of you to do shit, that's just a flimsy-assed excuse so neither of you have to take responsibility for acting like pouty fucking babies because neither of you is getting your own way. My advice is to move into a trailer, both start doing serious drugs and give all the kids up for adoption so they don't grow into fucked up shitflowers like you two donuts.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

What is the point/value in this comment?

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

Hey, I just commented on this one not that long ago in my quest to get banned from every redpill sub as fast as humanly possible. It's a little low effort compared to some of my others,but I think I gave them some solid life advice.

A Wigglechucky validation seeker. Grant his wish so he can get his Internet TBP merit badge.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

It's fucking weird. How desperate for validation and attention is someone, when the reactions of text on a screen is what gets you wet?

At least wiggly bot smacked around by her ex husband. Her being fucked up makes sense.

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

My complete apathy for TBP prevents me from giving a single fuck.

I'm interested in clean classrooms. How hard is it to reserve debate to debate subs and not hate in the name of parody? Someone marries an abusive coward, so any masculine guy is a reminder. How more AWALT can one get?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Lol, they aren't a debate sub, but I see your point. Was more rhetorical of a question.

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

PPD. Move concerns about methods, stereotypes, nature of men/women. Turn ons/offs to a neutral location. Don't shit up threads where your personal animosity / experience / worldview etc... make it impossible for you to reflect the local culture.

Anonymous hate has no moral high ground, regardless of the source.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I feel the exact same way about PPD only in my narrative they are just trolls trolling trolls with a few good people mixed into the soup.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Mostly. Trolls, the misguided, and plenty of closed communication.

Their 'incel repair plan' is a bit of a time bomb though. Mothering a guy into leaving Omaga status won't work, but they still try.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The true definition of insanity.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good catch, I am always willing to help someone in their quest.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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