Theory vs. experience and observed behavior

Plopolok · 2020-09-15T15:05:52+00:00

What you call mimetic desire is more or less what TRP calls preselection and what ethologists call mate choice copying.

wtknight · 2020-09-15T14:58:40+00:00

The "7 sex partner average" for women is nonsense. It is more like 12+ for the average 28 year old.

This is the type of thing where “observation” gets one in trouble. Some guys only observe certain types of women. For instance, most of the women I’ve known and have “observed” were low N introverts, whose N was probably lower than average. If I were to base my theories on observation, women are much more chaste than studies show them to be. Most men seem to have observation bias for the more promiscuous women, and seem to somehow ignore the quiet, less promiscuous ones.

JohnDoe9564 · 2020-09-15T14:41:46+00:00

So basically pre selection?

There are dozens of posts about this on PPD, it's nothing new.

akaean · 2020-09-15T15:34:12+00:00

Yay. More open anti intellectual TRP disgust for science and the scientific process. The problem you run into when you decide that "studies are all flawed so I'm going to use my own ToTaLlY uNbIaSeD pErSoNaL oBsErVaTiOnS. Is that we have no idea whether or not what you are saying is accurate.

Your own observations will be skewed by availability heuristics. check out this MSU study: https://msu.edu/~ema/803/Ch11-JDM/2/TverskyKahneman73.pdf

The study asked respondents if there are more words in the English language that start with 'k' (ex. killer, karma) or words that have 'k' as the third letter (ex. acknowledge, ask)

The study found that universally people vastly overestimated the number of words that start with 'k' and underestimated the number of words with 'k' as the third letter. They posited that this is because it is easier for people to think of words that begin with the letter 'k' off the top of our heads. In actuality, there are about 3 times as many words in English with k as the third letter, and a given piece of writing will have approximately 2x as many words that have 'k' as the third letter than start with 'k'.

So when you are looking back through the women you know, its likely much easier for you to think of ones who have had a lot of sex as opposed to those who have very little.

It is also worth noting that your own observations are frequently subject to confirmation bias. That you are more likely to notice, search for, interpret, and recall evidence that reinforces your bias. See also https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4090078/

What does this have to do with TRP? It means that when you become "red pilled" you are told to look for a certain pattern. When you see an example of that pattern, you take note of it. And so those examples are the ones that stand out to you. Moreover, your own sample size is too small to draw any universal conclusions, and your own data collection methods are also highly suspect, I mean just how do you know how many prior partners a stranger you met on the street has? Do you have a magic power to see their N count displayed over their heads?

Studies conducted by the United States Government are far more reliable as a source than your unverified anecdotal evidence- even allowing for the margin of error of people not being 100% truthful with their answers. In fact, part of the reason why I prefer studies is because I recognize that they are free from my own internal biases that affect how I see the world if I look only through the lens of my individual experiences.

Even outside of Availability heuristics, where you are drawing your data from is important. If you are a trust fund yuppie, the type of people you interact with is going to be very different than if you are using a pool of people from the inner city or in a hyper religious baptist congregation.

Finally, we have no way of verifying your personal anecdotes, and you have no way of verifying mine. We cannot verify methodology, we cannot very sample size, and we cannot verify whether or not there was an appropriate control group. As such, I can defeat your assertions by simply stating that my own experiences have not lined up as such.

This is why studies are also important, because we can look at the methodology and challenge the assumptions that the study made if we disagree with the outcome.

usa_foot_print · 2020-09-15T14:39:59+00:00

In a nutshell, women desire you not because of your inherent qualities, character, or even your looks, but because other women desire you, you make her look good and feel wanted, and because you are acceptable to her social sphere.

Oh boy is this true to an extent. As my wife and I have gotten older (married at 25 but we are both 32 now), women are hitting me up a lot more than they used to in public (prior to COVID). Women have out right hit on me in front of her. And it makes her want me even more. Its kinda funny in a sense.

Single dudes, have a female friend hit on you in public, it may improve your chances with other women.

Crime_Dawg · 2020-09-15T14:46:57+00:00

[deleted]

Sid_Insidious · 2020-09-15T16:52:40+00:00

Most of the women I have known (and I know a lot, and dated quite a bit) were NOT superficial when it came to male appearance. They were very picky about other things, which I will talk about below, but they were not all out to land a male model. Even the ones who were quite attractive themselves. Most dated average guys, and some dated guys that were way below them in looks.

Perhaps. But now women can swipe on 10,000 guys in a 30 mile radius of her apartment. They can be extremely fickle and picky shoppers, and many women have shown they value looks as much as men do when selecting for a partner. Some women might date down in looks, but what is the man's over-all RMV - his relationship mate value? In any case, no matter his RMV, looks, fitness and height still matter.

Red Pill theory has a flaw in that it assumes to some degree women think like men. They don't. They are not as calculating, mercenary, and hot/cold.

When it comes to dating, mating and moreso just getting what they want, women make men look like big emotional teddy bears. Women's "love" for a man can turn on and then off again like a light switch. Her "love computer" might be more complex, but it spits out 1's and 0's like you can't imagine. And yes, like men, women decide in 0.01 seconds whether or not a guy is bedroom material. Anything she does with him after that (after determining he is not) is for "other purposes" women have for men. And they have plenty. If they see he's resourceful or useful, they're more than happy to have him as a friend, or what I like to call, friend without benefits.

Like those handy guys orbiting her when she needs to move apartments or put her winter tires on.

I love talking my guy friends out of helping women like this. It's wonderful.

"Isn't the guy she's fucking capable of changing a tire?"

lol

M4sterDis4ster · 2020-09-15T15:44:55+00:00

My observation of reality is that Blue Pill is completely wrong and Red Pill is right about few things.

SherbertBacon · 2020-09-15T23:37:56+00:00

Most of the women I have known (and I know a lot, and dated quite a bit) were NOT superficial when it came to male appearance. They were very picky about other things, which I will talk about below, but they were not all out to land a male model. Even the ones who were quite attractive themselves. Most dated average guys, and some dated guys that were way below them in looks.

I've noticed the same but with the caveat that they also perceived their guy as incredibly attractive/handsome. When it's someone they like they see them as handsome.

About 80% of the women I have known were somewhat promiscuous between the ages of 17-25. The CC is real for sure.

Likely a confirmation bias based on who you encounter, which is why experience only gets you so far. Even in university only 1/3 women had at least one casual encounter during their time there. The other 2/3s only slept with guys they perceived to be in committed/exclusive relationships with.

The "7 sex partner average" for women is nonsense. It is more like 12+ for the average 28 year old.

Again, this is why your experience is worthless compared to actual analysis. Of the many women I've dated in all my years being single, 12+ was on the high end. Also it's 7 as the median, not the mean.

Most women I have known were not gold-diggers, but a good 30% were. They openly told me this.

Never once dated a gold-digger. This is again something you're attracting, specifically.

Cobra_x30 · 2020-09-15T17:09:40+00:00

I agree with most of what you are saying, but there are some things I feel are a bit off the mark. Mimetic desire for example is real to a degree, but it isn't the driving force behind female attraction.

As best as I can decipher what really happens is that a woman sees you and then imagines how it will feel to be with you. If other women want you then defeating them and having you creates an additional emotional high. When other people want something it can make us curious and instill a desire to compete and win. Do not mistake this for the root cause of the desire. The root cause will always be the perception of how this man will make her feel.

Also... the idea that women lack self awareness and hate being held accountable is truth in part. I think this is greatly determined by culture. Women around the world are extremely responsible and hold themselves to a high standard on average. It is within human nature to shift blame, but Anglo culture women have turned this into an art form and our culture simply pampers them to a point where they accept no responsibility for anything they do.

Skadi793 · 2020-09-15T14:39:36+00:00

Red Pill theory has a flaw in that it assumes to some degree women think like men. They don't. They are not as calculating, mercenary, and hot/cold.

I do think that men here and on RP make the mistake of believing women think like men, but not "calculated" sense you claimed here. The entire concept of AF/BB and hypergamy or whatever implies that it is a biological inclination, not some math problem that women are trying to solve with any self-awareness.

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SaBahRub · 2020-09-15T17:43:54+00:00

I thought only women employed “feels before reals”, amirite?

rtnt07 · 2020-09-15T22:22:09+00:00

In turn, women imitate the behavior of other women: when her friends start "settling down", she feels the social pressure to do the same. When they run around and fuck chads, she will do this as well --even if she does not want to!

This would only be true if somehow women flocked into social groups defined by sex life, most all-female friend groups have diverse sexual lifestyles they don't reject eachother's friendship because of respective sex lives

majani · 2020-09-15T23:13:44+00:00

Deleted

Holler4Heller · 2020-09-16T17:27:47+00:00

My experience is very much in line with TRP tenets including unfortunately the more esoteric aspects. It’s clear to me the man who was the closest thing I’ve had to a dad loved me far more than my mom even if we’re a different skin color.

Title	Theory vs. experience and observed behavior
Author	Skadi793
Upvotes	9
Comments	66
Date	September 15, 2020 2:31 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/it9wfw/theory_vs_experience_and_observed_behavior/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/theory-vs-experience-and-observed-behavior.213536 https://theredarchive.com/post/213536

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