706,399 posts

Rule #8: Don't argue

Reddit View
August 22, 2019
7 upvotes

I was recently banned from marriedredpill. I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand I feel gaslighted and on the other I see what I did wrong and see the ban as justifiable. I'm going to lay it all out here so maybe other noobs won't make the same mistake. 

What happened

I posted a FR here https://www.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/cs4ykj/fr_red_core_blue_exterior/

Many of you helped and I greatly appreciate it.
In the FR there was a theory disagreement between myself and johneyapocalypse over which was more foundational to MRP, self improvement or Rule 0. The details aren't important. I made my case and he made his. 

/u/johneyapocalypse challenged me to post in OYS and link to our discussion so others could weigh in.

Tomorrow, post in OYS early, link to my comment, and specifically tell everyone why you have been lying. Since you don't want to listen to me perhaps you'll listen to others. Or perhaps you'll just keep rewriting the rules, lying, and arguing, all in an effort to avoid putting in the work - for the plain and simple reason that you, like most men - are lazy.

I outlined what I learned here and linked to that thread  https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/csux0d/own_your_shit_weekly_august_20_2019/exhzx6m

Why I feel gaslighted

Toward the end of our little debate, johneyapocalypse changed the subject by reading my comment and post history and coming up with a list of questions. I believed he was trying to make me look bad, feel guilty, or simply label me as a faggot so as to invalidate my argument. I did not engage. I tried to make light with humor, I said I believed we were not disagreeing on the important things and that it was all semantics, and I told him I respected him after reading some of his posts . I believed if I did engage that would be considered DEERing and I would be banned. I was banned anyway for 30 days for having the discussion in the first place. Rule #8: Don't argue 
In modmail I was encouraged to provide a case for why I shouldn't be banned. 

Dude. I don't think you're capable of using any of these tools for anything other than to blow up your life. I'm looking for a reason to keep you around but coming up blank.

Help me out here, I don't like banning guys who are in the OWS threads, but I really don't like guys going rambo haphazardly and making everyone here look bad. -RPStonePT

I felt like it was a trap and I was being asked to DEER. Instead of defend myself I took responsibility. I stated that I did argue with johneyapocalypse and perhaps arguing is one of my learning styles. I like to lay out an argument and let others tear it apart. My username is cmvplease2 after all. I said I would leave the arguing to the changemyview sub and I would no longer argue in marriedredpill. I could have defended, blamed, and deflected but I didn't do that. I already decided I was here to work. I was permanently banned anyway.

So I feel gaslighted. I feel like johneyapocalypse went through my posts to pull out any dirt he could find to show everyone how much of a faggot I am, caught the mod's attention, after which I was told to either DEER or be banned and if you DEER you're still banned. I tried to handle the situation by accepting responsibility but was still banned.

 

What I don't fully understand

..is why there are double standards. johneyapocalypse was guilty of the same crime which was arguing. But he got a bye. It appears the mods are going to protect those who they see as higher value. Those that produce value are unsurprisingly more valuable. You want to keep them around. That makes sense.

some idiot thining he's an equal who gets to dictate how others spend their time. -RPStonePT

I never dictated to johneyapocalypse that he should argue or keep pressing me for answers to his questions. I don't understand how its my responsibility to ensure someone else spends their time wisely. He has the freedom to spend his time how he sees fit. That should be on him. 

What I did wrong

I shouldn't have argued. I could give my opinion once and leave it at that. As weakandsensitive said in modmail  say "Huh. What an interesting view point." and move on

I should have went light on the humor

In general I should reply less and work more

Perhaps I should have engaged johneyapocalypse. But I still feel I would be called out for DEERing. I think this entire post is DEERing and I'll probably be banned for it.

Most of these questions were answered in my FR or OYS but I'm going to give johneyapocalypse the benefit of the doubt and assume he was attempting to help me on my MAP and he was not trying to get me banned

  • One year of sitting on your ass and doing nothing but reading.
    I joined at some point last year. Read some. Deleted reddit and all social media and honestly forgot about this place until recently. I read about STFU and realized how I had been fucking up recently and decided to join again.
  • Resorting to self-directed "marriage counseling" with your wife.
    I've been seeking your guys advice on this and I appreciate your help. The big lesson I've learned is I need to provide comfort. I've always sucked at this. I don't think the counseling is a long term solution and I'm working on it. 
  • "Bribing" your kids to get them to listen to you.
    I remember when I was a kid and I hated shopping. I let my kids pick out a $1 candy treat from walmart when we go to make it fun. Some people let their kids pick out a box of cereal. I see cereal with all its sugar as no different than candy so i figure why not just let them get candy.  I don't see anything wrong with this but after listening to other people's opinions I've decided to stop doing this. Going to the store should not be rewarded. I should reward them when they actually do something good.  
  • Going "rambo" on your wife after four weeks of "awareness."
    I detailed this in my first FR and my first OYS. I discussed my fuckups. My mistake in going rambo was making demands early on before my SMV was raised. And even when it is raised to my goal level I won't make explicit demands. To my understanding Dread is covert without covert contracts or being a dancing monkey. 
  • Reacting to your wife's threats of divorce by reading with her.
    Again I have sought your guys wisdom on this. As I said I know this is not a good long term strategy. It is providing her the comfort she needs now and as I learn more I'll bridge to actual game and learn how to provide comfort in daily interactions. During this whole debacle I was able to stay in my frame and she is aware I'm ok with divorce. I called her bluff and she has been in my frame since. Even though I went rambo and nearly blew up the ship I see it as a positive and call it a Hard Reset. I should have waited but I can't change the past. 
  • Lying about your weight - which went from 225 to 200 in two weeks - and blaming the discrepancy on your "anti-doxxing efforts."
    6 months ago I was at 233. I'm currently at 216. I considered doxxing myself and just sending a picture but i'm not that gay and I don't want johneyapocalypse to see my chafed nipples. I've been a lower weight and fatter before. I remember being just 200 and looked like I got stung by a bee. I have a lot more muscle on my frame now and I don't look bad until the shirt comes off. An ideal weight for me would be 185. I'd be around 12% bf. But I'm sure at that point I'd want to get to 9%.

Next steps

I'm not going to ask to be unbanned. I'm going to put in the work on my own for a long while. Maybe I'll be back in a year, maybe not. When I browse the marriedredpill history I see a lot of top posts with 100 upvoted and a deleted username. I wonder why. And I wonder how many of these noobs with OYS # 1 have history that's hidden because they were banned. A warning before a ban would be nice. Then a 1 day ban, 7 day, 30 day, permanent. Perhaps flair could be used to communicate where someone is at so other mods can ban at the next level. This is a suggestion not for me but for the community so everyone can be aware of a person's history.  

peace


Post Information
Title Rule #8: Don't argue
Author Cmvplease2
Upvotes 7
Comments 52
Date 22 August 2019 04:19 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/250151
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/ctzot4/rule_8_dont_argue/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
double standardsMAPDEERdread gameframesexual market valuestandardsgamefield reportgaslighting
Comments

[–]RStonePT[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children) | Copy

removing this post, as OP was doxxing himself and his family for some weird internet obsession. I hope this is a stock photo

[–]RisingUpAgain30 points31 points  (1 child) | Copy

Holy fuck, you actually sat down and typed this all out...

[–]helaughsinhidden4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Right?!

[–]SoggyTrainCucked by machines22 points23 points  (1 child) | Copy

JFC one can only imagine how bad you DEER to your wife if this is what you do online to a bunch of assholes.

[–]seedster55 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

HAHHAHAHAHA. That's my thought exactly

[–]itiswr1ttenRed Beret17 points18 points  (2 children) | Copy

I was waiting for a joke punchline that never came

[–]Over60_FireTempered3Red Beret4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

hashtag Me Too. and I was way more disappointed than you were...

[–]sakis_ikr0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hashtag #deering4life, that should be it.

[–]red-iron-man15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

No matter how much you think these guys are acting like pricks, never allow it to bother you to the point it festers and you waste energy on it like you did in this long post. That energy could have been spent on improving yourself. At the end of the day, nobody here matters.

[–]weakandsensitive11 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy

A warning before a ban would be nice. Then a 1 day ban, 7 day, 30 day, permanent.

Nah - there's enough men that don't suck that I don't worry about the men that do.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

20-35 guys per day join. I have no problem banning the ones that don't add value or waste people's time.

[–]haraishi2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

At first i was upset with the perma ban. But the guys who first get here (me included) are at rock bottom. I needed that wake up call no second channce being called out on bullshit to wake me up to how seriously fucked up my life was

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Are you still banned? If so, i'll unban

[–]haraishi3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nah man served my time and working my way through the side bar etc

[–]tap098853424 points25 points  (5 children) | Copy

Reading this post reminded me of true love, specifically about the time I learned what true love is.

My gf is really into rough sex and rapeplay, which I have for the most part gone along with. Our safeword is "primrose". She likes surprises, kind of like Kato from the pink panther movies. Anyway, lately she has taken to sneaking up and jumping me in the shower, and I can't really defend myself as she is trans, 6'4", and a former Olympic weightlifter.

She has been so surprising and forceful that she doesn't seem to hear me scream our safeword before she is gagging me unconscious with her cock.

Last week I woke up bloody and sore on the shower floor. I wasn't sure how long I'd been there, and I started balling huge deep shrieking sobs of tears and snot. But I realized they weren't cries of sadness, but cries of joy, because I knew that anyone who wanted to do that to me must truly, truly love me.

I think you should realize that the mods love you too.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why the fuck am I turned on now?

[–]coinbaserep6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

Our safeword is flower

She’s pissed today because I didn’t stop when she said the Safe word

honestly I thought she was saying flour

Feel bad now

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

What is with faggots on here who do not respect their partners safe word?

[–]coinbaserep6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

Whoosh

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yep.

My bad bro.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am going to throw OP and others a bone here.

Think of it this way. Flared men are “made men” in the mafia mindset. man of respect, one of us, friend of ours, good fella, and wiseguy. Not all of us are the same nor see eye to eye but we all agree on one thing. That one thing is Rule Zero above all. That’s why we are here there is no debate about it. Disagree? The door is over there.

When a flared man, or even someone who is universally recognized as knowing his shit say or do something they have a reason. They aren't obligated to tell you either. Yeah sometimes we are pricks because if a a fat dude in his mom’s basement wearing spaghetti stained wife beater is hurting your feelings? Boy you got other issues to worry about.

Here’s the thing about picking at fly shit in any OP posts. When someone is deeply ego invested they tend to tell the things they want people to hear, or how they want to hear it. We are never the villains in our own stories. Sometimes it is a case of OP not clearly communicating....well tough shit. Do better next time. Then the lesson is no one gives a shit about listening to your emotions.

There is even a post in AskMRP right now some dude came in wanting a bro hug and wants to talk about how awesome he is and just needs lift advice? Motherfucker can read a book right? There are subs for that. Yet he couldn’t see past his ego at what he was being told. Despite whether he came here for. There’s always a lesson. Sometimes not the one you are looking for.

There are cases of even formerly flared men who have crossed the line and no longer want to hear the message of their brethren. In this case the message is delivered as brother would to another. If they have deep ego investment they won’t hear it nor see it.

Deleted users IDs I think it’s faggoty when someone does it. Even flared guys. THe history should remain. Thank gawd Jack10 left his. Some do it because they have crossed the Rubicon, others....fuck MRP amiright?

So three things to take away.

  1. Flared Men have a purpose in what we are doing...may not make sense to you. just STFU and listen.

  2. If someone is going after you and they are wrong? Why should it bother you?

  3. The world isn’t fair. Fucking deal with it.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Chick wrote this.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fucking shit guys - I thought this was a room full of dudes. Who let the faggot woman in here?

[–]Iammrp24 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I read your post. And your FR. And your OYS post. And your argument with /u/johneyapocalypse.

I'll preface this by saying I think you're a real good guy. You're wrong. You totally missed the point of what johneyapocalypse was saying. The reason "self improvement is masterbation" is because self help is all about spinning your wheels without going anywhere. Fight Club is about real work. Actually improving yourself is greater than anything. Even if you think there's a motivator behind real improvements, sex or whatever, only those that have done the work to improve have PROVED themselves worthy. You're stuck spinning your wheels instead of getting any work done. Your argument is a perfect example of what you were arguing AGAINST. The lack of awareness is fucking mind blowing.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret[M] 19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy

The mods don't care about you.. Banned for wasting people's time.

But I'll keep the thread up to show people what not to do (and what lack of frame and ego protection look like).

[–]2ndalRed Beret14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy

good god what a load of garbage this post is

how much fucking time did you spend defending yourself against a stranger, to other strangers -- none of which who give even once ounce of a flying fuck?

jesus christ. find better uses of your time

[–]Cmvplease2[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Maybe an hour. I was asked several times to defend myself and part of the reason I was banned was for not defending myself. Hence the feeling gaslighted.

[–]FlyingSexistPig9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

His question was rhetorical. You're not supposed to answer a rhetorical question. You're supposed to question why he thinks your actions were ridiculous.

His point was that you've spent entirely too much time trying to make your (still entirely unclear) point. Go do something else with your time. Go lift. Go vacuum the living room, so do something productive. Your time spent posting here isn't a productive use of your time and it isn't bringing value to the rest of the community.

That was the point of the mod ban. Hopefully I've spelled it out very clearly, and you can get the closure you need and then take appropriate action.

[–]RStonePT4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

MRP is not your wife. The guys are here for ego free value exchange. If you AA or Fog the guys here you're gonna get the boot.

I've yet to see you understand the dynamic at play,.I'm guessing your wife shares that sentiment.

And there's 10 guys who are willing to stow the ego and out in the work, the hazing is to see if you were one of them.

[–]Iammrp23 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

/r/worstofMRP

Congrats. You're the first.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

I have been getting up and working out with Fitchick at 4:30am. The change to my schedule has been nice.

Today we did legs. Meaning I stood over her while she did hip thrusts in case she needed me to lift the weight off her. I also had to spot her on squats, and showed her proper depth by placing my hand mid air and telling her to keep going until she touched my hand with her ass. She was easily half repping, got at least 2.5" more depth in her squat this morning.

At one point, I rolled the bar onto my waist to do my own hip thrusts and I was so hard I nearly crushed myself with the bar. I had to readjust myself. I could see her out of the corner of my eye giggling and laughing.

She has been teaching me Pilates. At one point my abs got so gassed I had to stop. The only logical thing to do was roll over, put my hands over her and give her a nice deep 10 second kiss while I essentially pinned her down on the mat.

She is coming over again tonight after work.

I just met her last week.

Its amazing what can be accomplished if you actually try.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Training in the am is the best! Use your best hours on yourself. I fucking love it, I'm in the gym by 5am.

You never have to wait for equipment and everyone there has an agenda and shit to get done that day so its all business. Some of the highest performers, type a successful people train in the am because they have shit to do. I have met some really powerful people in the sauna.

I cant upsell training In the am enough.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I was up at 4am today, at gym at 4:45. It was a good one this am.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree, I just feel really weak in the am. Today was leg day and I was struggling with 315 on the bar. Who knows...

Prob just need more time to adjust to the time difference.

[–]jjj25762 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

How come you don’t talk about how much you lift, or how far you are in the sidebar?

You should focus on your self-improvement, and less on other dudes, fag.

Practice>Theory

Action>Talk

Growth>Philosophical Masturbation

Edit: Formatting.

[–]becoming_alpha2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Stop DEERing dude. Every word of this is DEERing. Every word of your exchange with johneyapocalypse was DEERing and it exposes your insecurity (lack of frame).

This post is being left here and not deleted as an example of what not to do, and what a lack of frame and too much ego protection looks like. Think about that for a long while, and no, don't respond. Your frame is so fragile and you ego needs so much protection that you treat every comment from all of us as an attack on you that you need to defend yourself from. Even right now reading this you are thinking "no I don't, I don't DEER everything, I wasn't trying to defend myself, I'm blah blah blah..." That's called DEERing and you're a pro. You need to stop.

This is a locker room. We're going to call BS when we see it and you can either accept and try to learn from it (much more difficult but actually the only way you'll grow), or you can defend yourself and stay in the same rut you're in indefinitely.

[–]helaughsinhidden2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

In all fairness u/Cmvplease2 , speaking for myself and most of us here. We aren't just a bunch of assholes waiting around for some unsuspecting dipshit to fall into a trap so we can kick his ass by calling him out. Well, some are, but no one you've called out. Most instead are people who fucked their lives up pretty good by doing everything the wrong way and someone else helped us out. Good men offered mentorship, often without asking anything in return. We are now paying it pay to other guys who are waking up and haven't a clue what's really going on except that what they have been doing isn't working and the teachings being pushed make it worse.

We want to help people.

Whether it's mentorship in the manosphere, our own kids, training sales people, an apprentice in a trade, or discipleship in a church, almost nothing is worse than a greenhorn who is messing everything up and won't humble themselves, shut up, and receive wisdom. It actually punishes the person who is trying to help. It's clear you are full of faggotry, but that's totally forgivable. Honestly. It's how you aren't accountable for that faggotry that is insulting to the rest of us that are constantly in a state of fighting back the same shit. I've said this a lot lately, but here it is again, you are not special. We are all eating a shit sandwich out here and have the same pressures to protect our ego, be lazy, skip the gym, eat the carbs, cave to the kids, seek her validation, gain her approval, work for the sex, and it goes on and on.

So......quit lying.

This is an anonymous forum. We aren't at your house, gym, work, or church. FFS, confess error, quit DEERing us, because we ALL have master's degrees in it ourselves and actually OWN YOUR SHIT.

Some are more important than others too.

Some guys really have a nose for BS. You should not only hear them out, thank them. Maybe hire them as a matter of fact. We all NEED a guy in our lives to follow us around and slap us to say "No! That's faggotry! STFU and smile.". I don't know what kind of money you make or what people are charging, but Richard Cooper, Rian Stone, and Dave the Red Pill Coach are all high quality men. All three of those guys have poured themselves out on here and youtube, spending hundreds of hours creating content to help men out. Maybe pick one, pay him, tell him the truth, and get better because if you aren't living in the truth, you won't get there on your own.

[–]Shyrk1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

lma-FUCKING-o dude.

I truly hope that someday you read this post back and see it for how desperate it is.

Please use this low point as an opportunity to actually own your shit, and start climbing upward.

[–]Captain_pants41 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I like that he specifically said he didn’t want to DEER, and then he D.........E...........E...........R....ed

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

Maybe I'll be back in a year, maybe not.

Yeah the money is on not. This whole post wasn’t for anyone but yourself. This is honestly one of the most disgusting things I’ve seen posted on here.

But it’s a great example of omega level behavior and what not to do as a man. You’ve ironically added value by being such a low value faggot example.

[–]RStonePT2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

There's been worse.

One guy posted vacation photos to flex how much fun he was having without us

[–]Iammrp21 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I want to see that

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You spoke too soon.

[–]RStonePT0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

attention seeking retard

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Dude you put "I feel" in bold caps in that post.

Do you know where you are?

This is going to be a glorious buffet of drama.

What the fuck happend to SBIII! How do I summon that guy.

My first account was banned here too because I hamsterd weakandsensitive.. Look there is rian calling me out.

He said some cool wounded warrior shit then gave me the ban hammer out of love. It's what I needed. I was moralizing like a total faggot.

You cant seem to get the fucking message.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

What the fuck happend to SBIII! How do I summon that guy.

I think you have to make a blood sacrifice to the Gods of Post History. And then say his name three times in front of a mirror.

[–]Iammrp20 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Was he a shit poster like this guy?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Nah. He would tear shit posters a new asshole. And do it so elegantly well. It was beautiful. A work of art. Brings a tear to my eye.

[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Mine still hurts from last time

[–]LivingRPLife0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Mods should have flared you “gay ego protector” for 30 days.

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

“Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?”

“That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,” said the Cat.

“I don’t much care where–” said Alice.

“Then it doesn’t matter which way you go,” said the Cat.

“–so long as I get SOMEWHERE,” Alice added as an explanation.

“Oh, you’re sure to do that,” said the Cat, “if you only walk long enough.”

[–]RPMorpheus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So what you're saying is more experienced RPillers baited you and you fell for it like the noob you are then proceeded to spend all day writing this garbage? Your hamster spinning. This is not how men behave. This is how women behave.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2020. All rights reserved.

created by /u/dream-hunter