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Question About Handing Couples Counselling

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September 17, 2019
7 upvotes

Stats

29y, 5'7", 160lbs, 14% BF (navy), together for 7 years married for 3, no kids.

Squat: 210lbs

Deadlift: 230lbs

Bench Press: 185lbs

Reading

Finished NMMNG, MMSLP, and MAP

Currently reading WISNIFG

Question

I've been red pill aware and lurking for a few years now but only started doing the work in October last year. I know I need to start posting to the OYS threads; if I had been I probably wouldn't be in this mess.

My marriage has been falling apart for the past ~3 months due mainly to the wife's (I suspect bipolar) sister staying with us but also me being a huge faggot. Before she came to stay the relationship was pretty much perfect between us. I was owning my shit and had been running my MAP for a solid 8 months. We were stronger than ever, the sex was frequent and dirty, and we were moving in the direction I wanted.

Anyway, the sister breaks up with her abusive boyfriend and needs a place to stay. "Sure, stay as long as you need". Immediately the sex drops off (small apartment) and the shit tests go through the roof with the wife. Work gets stressful with redundancies going around and I don't realize I'm failing them. The sister starts sucking up all of the wife's free time; to the point that I feel as though she's having an emotional affair with her (maybe not the right term but I don't know what else to call it). They start going out dancing together (unusual for my wife) and join a girls netball team together. No big deal I thought, I hate dancing and nightclubs and the sisters just want to spend time together, I'm not going to stop them. I'm glad the wife has found a new group of friends too.

However, as the weeks went by I felt more and more neglected and got needy and emotional. I fell off my MAP and became a drunk captain again, I became complacent, lazy, needy, etc... All the usual faggot behavior that I thought I'd put an end to all came back in a few short weeks. I realized that I needed to focus on myself again before I started to set some boundaries with them both and I had started to get my shit back together but it was too little too late. It all came to a head one night when I jumped in to bed and my wife told me she "doesn't have time for me anymore" and that we should "go our separate ways". What the fuck? I knew we weren't in a great place but I didn't think it was that bad.

I moved out of the house 48 hour later leaving her and her sister (in retrospect a terrible move) and a few days later she booked us in for couples counselling (I believe due to pressure from her family). In talking to her she says she still loves me and misses me a lot, but she refuses to go out on dates and still thinks we should go our separate ways (confusing?). I know she hasn't really thought this through and will come to regret it if I walk.

I still want this to work but I'm not sure how to proceed with the counselling. It seems it is my last chance to get through to her and explain that her sister is a large part of our problems. Do I;

  • Be honest with how I feel about the "emotional affair" and try to get her to see it from my point of view?
  • Extreme ownership. Take responsibility for being a drunk captain and place the blame squarely on me followed by STFU?
  • Call her out for being a selfish bitch?
  • Just STFU?
  • Other?

Thanks.


Post Information
Title Question About Handing Couples Counselling
Author ricksy
Upvotes 7
Comments 76
Date 17 September 2019 02:21 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/253573
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/d5angb/question_about_handing_couples_counselling/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
MAPWISNIFGshit testthe red pillNMMNG
Comments

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"24 points25 points  (10 children) | Copy

Lots of words.

The important few translate to: your wife killed the puppy.

Move on so she can go full incest with her whore sister and you can have some real fun, young man.

[–]ricksy[S] 7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy

I tried to keep it short but also didn't want it to be a vague half-story that people can't really reply to.

Thanks for the advice.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"15 points16 points  (6 children) | Copy

Look dude, the stories are almost always the same, and the outcomes are few. You were caught off guard by your wife's bitchy, incestuous behavior, I get that.

But consider:

  • Your wife goes out dancing, repeatedly, without you.
  • Your wife tells you that "you should go your separate ways."
  • You move out of the house.
  • She books you couple counseling, though you believe her parents pushed her into it. (Note that many, many women use the therapists as the fall guy to do their dirty work. Easier to have someone else tell you it's definitely over. )
  • She tells you ILYBINILWY and refuses to date you.
  • She again tells you that "you should go your separate ways."

Throw in the bipolar whore sister - is she hot (?) - and it seems like your wife is killing butchering and torturing the poor monkey and pushing fast to put it out of its misery.

I'm sure you'd like to explain all these things away. To take control. To recognize the error of your ways and make plans upon plans upon plans for fixing it all.

But perhaps, instead, it's best for you to realize that this ship has embarked, this train has left the station, and this incestual wife has switched to the other team.

Great fucking news!

Time for you to do you and you alone and while you're building back your self-esteem, have some goddamn fun. You're young, no kids, and you have your whole fucking life (and sex life) ahead of you.

[–]ricksy[S] 10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

Hell of a response man. It hurts to be on the receiving end but it's what I need to hear - especially the explain away and making plans to fix it part; that's me to a T.

I'm going to skip the counselling and see a lawyer instead.

The sister is early 30's and has abused her body for 15+ years with a poor diet, cigarettes, and alcoholism - not hot.

Thanks again.

[–]Iammrp21 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Find out if she cheated. If not dillberryhoundog is right on.

If she did cheat that explains her behavior. She's acting bipolar like her sister.

Either way you need to rebuild your frame. Kick the SIL out.

[–]hack3geRed Beret9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

It’s amazing how easy it is for men to put their head into the sand and try to justify the actions of a clearly cheating wife who is nuking their relationship.

The wife decided after going out with the sister that it would be fun to go on the cock carousel again. Likely that first night she went dancing Chad railed her in the ass in the bathroom and she remembered what it felt like to be with a real man.

If OP even remotely had frame he would have told his wife to get the fuck out of the house and his life and to fuck off about counseling.

/u/ricksy the only reason she wants to go to counseling is to say she tried everything so she doesn’t look like the cock gobbling whore that she is - it’s just a front, don’t go and tell her to fuck off with her counseling. If she asks why tell her “I have no desire being with someone that doesn’t want to be with me - have a nice life.” But if you say it you better fucking mean it otherwise she’s going to reel you back in and keep deepthroating chad on her GNOs.

[–]RedPillGlasses1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Absolutely agree with you, and that doesn’t happen often.

Psycho slut sister reminded her how much fun it is to be a whore, and counseling is just for show. Then she’ll chalk up to “we just grew apart”

I’ll give the wife props for tearing the fucking bandaid off fast for him. Most women drag that shit out for years.

[–]hack3geRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It’s interesting because normally I’d either say OP really is a giant loser and lying about his progress or she has a firm hold on another branch already for this situation to occur but something about it screams about an Eat Pray Love type deal.

[–]Thor-Loki-15 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great fucking news, indeed.

Fucking solid response, OP. I have a feeling this should be cut and paste for many of the questions (minus the whore sister/incest shit, but add in whatever relevant stuff is being said next time).

[–]themerovingian010 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

But before you leave try to get a sister-sister threesome.

[–]marv86kw0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sister is not hot, probably not so clean either.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

This whole thing reeks of your whore wife cheating.

She pretty much told you to your face.

Here’s what almost always happens: she will continue to fuck Chad, but she will string you along, giving conflicting messages. You will be so confused, and one of 2 things will happen

A) she leaves you for Chad but never admits it

B ) it falls through with Chad, and she “suddenly comes to her senses” making you feel like you saved the marriage when in actuality it didn’t work out with Chad

Either way, it’s shitty .

You are nowhere near ready for what’s about to go down

You have this idea that you fell back into your beta ways, and it’s true... but the bigger truth is you weren’t ready for the shitstorm that hit

Hit the sidebar and start doing OYS posts

[–]aita28993 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Pretty much this. Going through this myself because I lied to myself about it being for the kids.

Best thing I ever did was grab a lawyer and get shit rolling. I wasted more time with her fucking with me for 7 weeks of bullshit that in the end led no where.

It’ll get worse. You’ll get the random crying about how because you acted up one time she almost took you back, but you acted out so she can’t etc.

How she loves you, but not romantically till her car gets a flat or something is heavy. Then she needs you. Fuck that.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It’ll get worse. You’ll get the random crying about how because you acted up one time she almost took you back, but you acted out so she can’t etc. How she loves you, but not romantically till her car gets a flat or something is heavy. Then she needs you. Fuck that.

Great example about how she’s about to fuck with OP’s head and twist it into a pretzel... all to keep him on the back burner. OP, start OYS, lift, and sidebar...oh and STFU!

If you go down the attorney path, you better stick firm and follow through, or it will be 10 times worse in the end

[–]WeightsNCheatDates9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

She’s giving you a free pass to eject out of the marriage. Take it.

[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Take it, no regrets

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No kids... no brainer

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret7 points8 points  (10 children) | Copy

I always like to use actions as the barometer. Actions are the real indicators, not words. What are her actions telling you?

[–]ricksy[S] -4 points-3 points  (9 children) | Copy

Her actions are telling me this is just a huge shit test.

For example, I went to grab some more of my possessions on the weekend. When she saw me she started to tear up and was obviously happy to see me. When I asked how she was she gave a happy "pretty good" and when I asked her how she actually was I got a depressing "yeah... alright". I asked her what she was doing that night and she said nothing. I told her I was going out for dinner and asked her if she wanted to join me. She thought about it for a solid 15 seconds before saying no. Then she got a work call and I left and I haven't heard from her since.

It's this difference in her actions and words that are causing me so much confusion.

[–]Thor-Loki-110 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

So, what were her actions from this?

She played up the "I'm suffering card"; which earns oppression points, which she's absolutely telling everyone. She didn't go to dinner with you--and you should be fucking grateful; as no doubt you would have emotionally spewed all over her. And she hasn't called/contacted you since.

That a good synopsis?

You need to go monk mode and STFU on everything other than "I'm coming to get my shit, don't you or your sister be at home".

[–]ricksy[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah that sums it up pretty well. Thanks for the insight.

[–]mrbadassmotherfucker7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dude. Her actions are telling me that you need to get the fuck out of this and withdraw from her frame completely by not having anything more to do with her.

This way you can work on yourself without distraction.

Get to work

[–]primordialawe2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

She payed sad to see if she still had her emotional hooks in you. Which she did. You perceived this as a win for you because she was silky and you said “pretty good”. Not a W. You then asked her on a date. And she denied. Which gave her the power and validation that she definitely has the hooks in. Her actions are saying “is he still on the line and available so whenever I’m done with whatever this phase is I can go back to him”.

[–]Redpillbrigade172 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You’re an idiot. If I had a penny for every time I almost broke up with my LTR because of shit she was saying. Watch what she does, ignore what she says.

[–]redditguy612 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

A "work call". LOL.

[–]NMMNG_10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

on the weekend.

Exactly! lol

[–]Rifleshoot1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It’s not a shit test, bud. A shit test is testing how alpha you are. This isn’t that. She’s trying to kill the marriage because her whore sister convinced her that she would have more fun as a single woman. You don’t have kids and given that you were in a small, shitty apartment, not too many resources that would have to be split. Talk to a lawyer and get out. Have the pride in yourself not to tolerate a woman that is clearly either cheating, or attempting to cheat. If you want to know something that might satisfy your need for justice here, she’s quickly approaching the wall and is going to find being single much harder than she remembered it being. She’s leaving her beta provider (you) for a sexual marketplace that she is going to be worth much less on.

[–]marv86kw0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nah. Drop her.

Seeing someine you miss usually makes you smile, talk loud, approach.

Tearing up? Why would she do that now? Regret? She's a manipulative bitch.

[–]0io-Tsundere5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy

You needed to throw the psycho sister out a lot sooner. Wife sees sister walking all over you and has decided you're a doormat and now she's decided to leave you because she can do so much better.

Since there are no kids involved I think you should just get divorced and start over with someone who doesn't have bipolar relatives. Or, if you don't want to do that for some reason, just insist that the sister has to go stay somewhere else. Maybe she can go on disability. Maybe she can move in with her parents or other family.

You can say "either she goes or I go" and if she goes, then see if you can get things back on track with your wife.

In your particular situation, however, I think you're better off just finding someone younger, hotter, and better.

[–]Iammrp22 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

"either she goes or I go"

It's his apartment. The sister goes. Period. Wife can leave too if she wants.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

It's his apartment.

Most states recognize it as community property, even if it’s under OP’s name. The way this thing has played out, I don’t see the sisters willingly leaving.

[–]Iammrp20 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

That would suck if he had to evict her. Might as well leave himself.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

He probably can’t evict her. In most states, if they are married, it doesn’t matter who’s name the lease is under. I’d just GTFO myself. I mean, if they owned, you wouldn’t want to abandon it, but it’s just a crappy apartment.

[–]marv86kw0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The state can fuck off if he's paying the bills. They don't like being kicked out, then OP leaves and she takes on the lease. Money talk, bitches walk.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not how it works. In my first marriage, my wife was a SAHM, and the judge kicked me out of the house... had to rent another house. They usually look at the kids first and making sure the kid’s lives aren’t disrupted. Even without kids, it will be the judges decision, and judges aren’t consistent, so it depends on the judge you get.

[–]wkndatbernardus8 points9 points  (7 children) | Copy

The answer in this circumstance is always, "there's the door." Get yo ass back in the crib and talk to a lawyer. You can't negotiate her desire to be with you. Sure, her sister probably filled her mind with all this CC bs but, that only accelerated the decline of your relationship, it's not responsible for it. You have yourself to thank for that.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The answer in this circumstance is always, "there's the door."

Ha, you stole my go-to in this situation. This is great advice

[–]ricksy[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Ha, that's what her father told me to do. He told me to move back in and tell his other daughter to GTFO of my apartment.

Sure, her sister probably filled her mind with all this CC bs but, that only accelerated the decline of your relationship, it's not responsible for it. You have yourself to thank for that.

Understood.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Your father in law is more red pilled than you.

[–]umizumiz1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, FIL has his head on straight and obviously cares about his SIL.

OP, listen to Papa.

[–]ricksy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

For sure. The dudes last girlfriend was my age, and he's in his 60's.

[–]UltimateCrypto1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your father in law already gave you the best advice. Now go kick both those bitches out of the house.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

that's what her father told me to do.

That’s cuz he knows all about his whore daughters. He’s doing you a huge solid going against his own daughters. I mean think about that for a minute... imagine the shit this dude has seen his daughters pull for him to go directly against his own blood here

[–]bourbonhipster7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy

You sound like you think you can logic everything the way you want it to be.

It's the great flaw of men when communicating with women.

You also sound like you have a serious problem drawing clear boundaries for your own good. Your wife and sister came in with their stomping boots and trampled over whatever facade you had set in place.

So you think this counseling thing is really going to work out for you is it?

Or maybe your compliance to even consider attending says all that your wife needs to know about you.

Imagine your wife didn't exist and you had two out of line brats housed up with you in your tiny apartment. What would your day look like tomorrow under those circumstances?

[–]ricksy[S] -2 points-1 points  (5 children) | Copy

I suppose my hope with attending counselling is that she sees where I'm coming from and wakes up. At the moment she is completely oblivious to it all and is too busy having fun with her sister. You're right in that I'm thinking all logic and she's not going to give a shit.

If there were brats in my apartment, they'd be out of there, not me. My frame is non-existent.

I have work to do.

[–]Thor-Loki-17 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Dude, no. Fuck no. Counseling will not achieve anything other than to confirm to your wife that she's better off without you and will only make you more depressed, because some "expert" is being the heavy--instead of your wife having to do it.

[–]BishBoshDosh4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes and she gets to say "omg I tried to make it work, we went to counseling and everything".

[–]WesternhagenWinner2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Counseling = your wife and a counselor team up, spend an hour telling you that you suck, and give you lots of things to do to gain their approval. But no matter how much you do, this never achieves the objective you want, which is a restoration of sex and affection from her.

You want to pay $150/hour for that?

[–]umizumiz1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

She booked the appointment.

She was probably referred .

Even if she wasn't referred, you think she picked a counselor that is going to be impartial?

Or do you think she picked a counselor she believes will support what she has already decided?

She's cheating on you.

Kill the puppy, as they say. You can always, I repeat ALWAYS, fuck her. But it's pointless to expect commitment and honesty out of this woman anymore.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You can always, I repeat ALWAYS, fuck her.

This is bad advice for OP. He’s to weak to just fuck her without emotions. Hell, a 10-minute cry from the wife, and he’ll forget it ever happened. OP self admitted that he has zero frame. She has her hooks in him deep

[–]screechhaterRed Beret3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy

The alligator tears start to flow once the cash is cut off. As in yours. Hard stop.

Couples counseling. ?

WTF is there to talk about ?

I’m right here. What would you like total about ?

Couples counseling= waste of time.

Bipolar sister ? Starts going out when the sister moves in, Hmn. Beta boy is getting cucked.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Couples counseling. ? WTF is there to talk about ?

I’m currently getting my masters in counseling, and I wouldn’t even recommend that

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Recommend what ?

Counseling is nothing but operating in her frame, especially with this kind of shit show

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I would never recommend couples counseling.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Gotcha.

It seems to be the go to for the chick to have her shitty behavior validated

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I’ve seen it in my coaching business with men. Their wives hand pick a counselor, but if the counselor ends up actually being objective, she’ll immediately stop going. Every time. If the counselor co-signs her BS, she’ll keep going.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Got be able to keep the man in her frame at all times. And, at all cost

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Two things:

  1. How can counseling help when it will consist of people trying to get you to talk about your feelings? Answer: it won’t, it’ll make things worse.

  2. She probably cheated on you with a Chad who gives her the feels - which is why things escalated so quickly.

The way I see it you either put those two bitches in line (preferably kick the sister out) or move on from your wife and start gaming other women.

[–]Iammrp26 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

Kick the wife out and game the sister

[–]NMMNG_11 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Actually... the OP should start gaming the sister with the wife still in the house. If anything, for entertainment purposes and practice.

[–]Perfectinmyeyes2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with alot of the posters here, her sister came and put a lot of thoughts into your wife's mind and or she got with Chad.

Either way... You acting like a beat whelp doesn't help. Like others have said, you move back to your place. And get the sister out and then let your wife do what she wants, stay or go.

[–]Redpillbrigade172 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Stick a fork in it. Be thankful you don’t have kids with her. You’re young you have tons of time to build a relationship even relationships you want. Good luck. And Stop being a pussy.

[–]WesternhagenWinner2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Before she came to stay the relationship was pretty much perfect between us.

So you say. But the evidence shows, your frame was actually shit and your redpill gains were superficial at best. The first time your frame was tested - when your wife wanted to do something obviously unacceptable, i.e., move her crazy alcoholic loser sister into a small apartment with you - your frame folded like wet cardboard and all your gains went out the window. You were a Nice Guy who could not say no, and you didn't. You had sprinkled some alpha on yourself, and your wife blew it off as easily as you would blow froth from a pint. If it hadn't been the sister that precipitated the crisis and revealed your actual weakness, it would have been something else.

She may or may not regret it if you walk. Many women do, especially if they see their ex is improving. That's her problem, not yours. What do you want? This whole post is "how do I get back my one-itis?" If you had frame and abundance mentality you would not be fretting about how to get back this woman who treated you so poorly. All this strongly suggests you need to pull the plug and go work on yourself some more. If you get this woman back, it will not go well. If you get another woman before you have built your frame, it will not go well.

[–]themerovingian012 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Couples counseling never works. Not even once.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

“Red pill aware” is code for “I’m a gay retard that hasn’t done shit”.

[–]ricksy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Absolutely. No argument from me on that one.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Calm the fuck down man. 3 months ago the wife / sister yanked on the wheel of an otherwise sound ship and your jumping overboard?

Give it time, get the sister out, take back control like a man would and never forget some of the hamster spew that came out of your wife's mouth, because, dear 29 year old boy, that is the spew that will destroy your marriage if you abandoned your post as captain again.

If the boat doesn't turn back on course in a few months, then yeah, its time for 'go plan'

[–]WolfofAllStreetz1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dude get out, sounds like your girl skipped her ho phase and its making its way full circle with her sister. This will not end well for you. Do not take her back. Get to looking better, and start finding friends if you don’t have any.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

My marriage has been falling apart for the past ~3 months due mainly to the wife's (I suspect bipolar) sister staying with us but also to me being a huge faggot.

Own your shit. This one's on you. Do you know what the problem is? You made pussy the prize and when the prize was taken away, your validation went with it and your wife saw you for what you are - a gigantic, validation seeking pussy who falls apart when she takes away sex. Like a frameless buffoon.

So, she goes out dancing with the sister, having fun, playing netball. And you fall apart even further. Like a frameless buffoon.

She tells you she wants out, then you roll over and play dead by moving out. Like a frameless buffoon.

This could make her look bad, so she books couples councelling. To the rest of the world, you're the bad guy - you moved out, she tried to fix it. The councellor will side with her. No matter how this one plays out, she's made the effort while you bolted out the door. Not that you should give a fuck, that's just how she's playing it.

I have no idea if this is fixable, but there's only one way you can attempt it;

- take your balls back

- move back in

- kick the sister from the house

- restart your MAP with 100% conviction

- stop being a fucking pussy

- start being a fucking man

And even if it is fixable - is it actually worth it? There's a very real chance that she is fucking someone else. At the very least, she has zero interest in you - you're out of the picture and her only concern on that front is saving face. She doesn't give a fuck about you. Can you deal with that? Can you live with that? Can you get past that?

I dunno dude - you've fucked around too long with MRP without actually doing anything. I'd be surprised if this made any difference.



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