How does someone get to be a "nice guy"?

BirdManBrrrr · 2018-11-13T15:18:55+00:00

See the book No More Mr. Nice Guy.

Be raised by mostly women (mom, grandma, aunts) and have a weak or nonexistent father. Spend the majority of your time with said women.
Do everything right in childhood- be a good helper, behave well, be nice to people, do good in school, get good grades...overall be the "good kid" and have that behavior constantly reinforced by women (mom/family, lady teachers, etc)
have the same women tell you you're going to "make a good husband someday!" and "You're a good catch!"
Get older and start to navigate SMV in middle-high school, realize that girls go for assholes and losers but because you've been told your entire childhood you're a good boy, differentiate by being the "nice guy". You "respect women" and "would never treat a girl like that!"
Make being an orbiter your mating strategy- befriend the girls fucking douchebags and assholes and lay in wait until they finally have enough and you're there! Get friendzoned in the process.
Build resentment that "NICE GUYS FINISH LAST!" yet bathe in your superior virtue of being better than those other assholes, knowing that you'll eventually be rewarded.
Eventually have some success with women and have some LTR's, so now build resentment when those women get bored, don't treat you as well as you treat her, or don't reward you for your superior virtue as mommy and grandma and your teachers did when you were younger.
Have other women tell you that girl "Doesn't deserve you!" and reinforce you're "Such a good guy!" and that "You'll eventually find someone who appreciates you!"
Torpedo all your relationships repeatedly because you can't fathom operating any differently.

And there you have it, the making of a Nice Guy.

Eastuss · 2018-11-13T14:53:19+00:00

Recipe to be a nice guy:

Be raised by women and medias
Be average or bellow average
Women tell you asking women out is annoying
Women tell you men are evil and perverted and should shut the fuck up about sex
Be insecure because deep down you're a normal man who thinks about sex
Women tell you in order to get a girlfriend and sex, you should be friend with women and be nice, and one will speak her interest out
OFC it never happens
Women go for men who are normal men, the kind you were told women despised
You get frustrated and mad at the contradiction
Voicing this frustration is big mistake because now you're also labelled as hypocritical

Nice guys becoming mad and vocal is still sign that they understand something is wrong, they're heading the right way.

sketch162000 · 2018-11-13T14:57:04+00:00

Step 1. Be unattractive. Also shy and/or insecure.

Step 2. Listen to the types of things women around you are saying about men and dating. Take to heart the notion that accommodating, considerate, and gentlemanly behavior is a priority to women. Truly absorb that decency and upstanding character take precedence over raw good looks and charisma when women choose which men they want to be with.

Step 3. Immediately, watch women repeatedly shit all over Step 2 in practice.

Step 4. Confused, question your understanding of women's dating habits generated in step 2.

Step 5. Watch women double down on the idea (but not practice) of Step 2 and then quickly demonize you if you persist in pointing out the glaring discrepancy.

Step 6. ????

Step 7...

No profit.

NOTSM · 2018-11-13T14:22:26+00:00

By being ugly

Mr_White119811 · 2018-11-13T15:10:33+00:00

As a former nice guy, allow me to give my own views that lead to my own shortcomings as a young dude.

Now I cannot speak for every nice guy out there, especially in regards to the ugly ones.

Background: When I was younger I got female attention. However I never did anything with it, due to "Nice Guy" complex. In School this sucked, when I first started School I got a lot of female attention. But it kind of waned off, as the girls got to know me better. When the younger girls started school in the year(s) below me, again I would get attention, but it waned off as I did nothing with it. Same at college, University however was different as I started making friends who were naturals, so I was able to learn from them, same in the Army.

So what lead to me being like this:

My parents were Christians and had very conservative and strict views which they fed to me. These generally revolved around respecting and being nice to women.

Also the school I went to seemed to be split into two main groups, the kids from the posh part of town (Heres a land rover for your 16th birthday) and the people from the rougher part of town, who would be dealing drugs and fighting when not in school. Myself, I did not fit into either group so I was an Inbetweener. This led to bullying and rejection. I am not laying blame here, as I know I could/should of took some initiative in my life instead of being so passive

One of my friends who was a "natural", well his parents were divorced so his dad would take him down the pub and train him (not literally) in the arts of seducing women.

Another of my friends was a "Natural" (fucking God in fact when it came to women) and although his parents were still together, his dad would take him down the pub to darts tournaments and things like that and basically wing him in pulling women.

I later spoke to my dad about this, and his response was "Well your a man, I just thought you knew this stuff". However, I do not blame my dad, nor resent my upbringing as I have a hell of a lot to be grateful for.

Also when I was younger, the friends I made at school were similar to me, it was like the Inbetweeners for real.

AlanHalworth · 2018-11-13T15:50:18+00:00

This whole issue is a bit perplexing to me. I have been called "too nice" by a woman, but I _never_ told a woman "I am entitled to a relationship with you by being nice." I _always_ try to be nice to everyone, men and women. That's just how I am. So the whole thing about "nice guys are secretly selfish monsters" or something, never made sense to me. I have never been called a selfish monster by a woman for being nice. I suspect that other "nice guy" men are somehow behaving differently than I did; but I am not sure how.

After I got rejected, I usually stayed friends with the woman, and I married one of them eventually. I personally think that is a "normal" way for it to work and results in better relationships. Why don't more people do it that way? Maybe because we move to different cities so often that we can't connect again years later when we are ready to get married.

Tishkaminx · 2018-11-13T15:15:47+00:00

Ime it's lack of social skills. They want acts of service or gifts to make up for a lack of charisma, confidense and sexual chemistry. They get upset when they can't hack the system.

SkookumTree · 2018-11-13T16:00:25+00:00

Inhibition and covert contracts.

daveofmars · 2018-11-13T23:53:09+00:00

Overbearing mothers. Weak fathers. Japanese anime.

verticordia · 2018-11-14T01:20:14+00:00

I just made a post about this on my blog lol but in my opinion men and women mean different things when we say nice.

Men think nice= courteous, polite (not wrong)

women think nice= genuine, thoughtful, as an action word "You brought me an iced coffee? How nice!"

The difference is everyone is or should be NICE by the male definition. Women are nice (feminine definition) to each other, men are not "nice" like that to their friends.

The trope of a nice guy, is a guy that will pretend to be a woman's friend, but conceal his true intentions. This disgusts women as women are the gatekeepers of sex. Most women would rather a guy flat out say "I'm trying to fuck you" than a guy pretend to be your close friend, then get mad when you won't sleep with them. Men who set boundaries and are clear about their intentions are SEXY. These "nice guys" are honestly creepy because of their volatility and fragile egos. Women like to test men, and nice guys manage to fail all of our tests. So because they do not explicitly make themselves sexual beings, we do not view them as sexual beings.

Women do want nice guys. We want a guy that's nice to us. But we want a guy that's clear about his intentions, that excites us, that we're attracted to (!), and is masculine, first and foremost.

Ultramegasaurus · 2018-11-13T17:54:19+00:00

Apart from the constant false reinforcement by women, nice guys also project their own experiences and standards onto women. Nice guys (or most regular guys in general) would be flattered to have a girl pining for them, especially if she does so by being very nice to him. I mean, it is a very common occurence for men to mistake a girl being nice to them as affection towards them alone too.

Civil_Seaworthiness · 2018-11-13T21:44:42+00:00

"Nice Guys" with quotes, in my experience and under the definition I use, are people (I've been nice-guyed by lesbians, though they're most commonly male) with dysfunctional learned attitudes about relationships, specifically that their 'giving' more as they define it will automatically result in someone 'giving' more back, also as the Nice Guy defines it.

The example is the person who comments on all of your posts/likes all of your tweets immediately, watches all of your stories... and believes that these actions will mean the same level of emotional investment on your part as on their part. Most Nice Guys don't go to this extreme, but 'I showed you my penis please respond' is kind of the platonic example of this. I [acted in a way that assumes intimacy without paying any mind to your definition of intimacy], please [reciprocate with the kind of intimacy I want].

When a Nice Guy offers the object of their affections a ride, or participates in a friendly conversation, he's assuming that the superficial aspects of a close relationship equate directly to the sincere aspects of a relationship. I offer my best friend a ride to the airport because I love her and I want her to get there safely - she knows this, she knows the gesture is reflective of the two years we've been close. If a Nice Guy offered her a ride, as a near-stranger the gesture would be comparatively hollow and kind of... worrying, because while my close friendship with my best friend gives her the confidence that at the end of the ride I won't expect repayment, it's part of our relationship that we go out of our way for each other regularly... she has no such confidence of the Nice Guy.

But for the Nice Guy - well, they just did something NICE!! They don't observe, or otherwise ignore, how uncomfortable she may be either turning down the ride or reluctantly accepting it if she really doesn't have another option. She's grateful, but the breach of social boundaries more-or-less counteracts the niceness of the act.

After I take her to the airport, she likes me more, trusts me more, is reminded of the strength of our friendship. After the nice guy takes her to the airport, she's left with questions: what will he want from me next, what did he 'get' from that, why did he do that, why won't he let me venmo him for gas??

Even if this was some hypothetical woman and not my terrifyingly smart INTJ best friend, who would sooner walk than accept a ride from someone who might demand reciprocation, and who would have figured out the answers to all of those questions by the end of the ride, inability to understand/adhere to social boundaries is not an attractive quality in a partner.

Let's move on to another commonly cited Nice Guy problem: they become an 'emotional tampon' and never get any reciprocation! The typical explanation offered is 'once she shares her feelings with you, she's not attracted to you anymore, you're switched from one zone to another, she thinks you're a beta now'. I share my feelings with my boyfriend more than I do with anyone else - he does the same with me. When we are in the kind of intense, long-term relationship where it's a normal and comforting act to share feelings, it's amazing and it makes me more attracted to him than I would be if I didn't know about his struggles and insecurities. It's hard for me to honestly say things like 'I think my friendship with [x] is over, she's avoided my last two offers to hang out and is acting really strange, but I'm not sure what I did or even if I did something and I feel really shitty about it' that's a huge deal for me.

It's probably not the same magnitude for many women, but 'talking about feelings' with a man is still, for many women, kind of a specific social boundary. Most women don't have that kind of guy friend - most women have never discussed feelings with their fathers/brothers, so they have kind of a confused approach to this kind of boundary themselves.

But Nice Guy sees that 'talking about feelings' is a mark of closeness - that she values her friends with whom she can talk about feelings freely, and they hone in on this as a way to GAIN that kind of closeness. It's a dysfunctional approach that puts the cart before the horse - she doesn't trust her friends because she talks about relationships with them, she talks about relationships with her friends because she trusts them. Nice Guy has this fundamentally mixed up, and then he gets surprised when boundary-pushing doesn't gain him the same trust and intimacy that it does her best friends.

It isn't so much a boundary violation as it is in the case of grand/expressive romantic gestures or huge/persistent acts of service, but it's a fundamental understanding of how friendships are built.

And I'm sorry this is so long, but the answer to a very complicated question is: Nice Guys don't understand how friendships work, let alone how friendships between people with the potential to be attracted to each other work. Environmental factors like limited social education, boundary issues in their families, bullying in school... biological factors like Anything That Influences Cognitive/Social Capacity certainly play a role. There is biological/'inherent' variation in how well people can recognize and comprehend social cues, and boundary issues within families may be compounded by hereditary effects involved in the aforementioned boundary issues.

I think Nice Guys can be helped - can grow out of it, can emotionally mature and learn to recognize how the majority of people form relationships. But it often takes time and self reflection and improvements to critical thinking skills and self-perception skills, which some people struggle with a lot.

AutoModerator · 2018-11-13T14:10:26+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

KeyAssumption · 2018-11-13T14:25:08+00:00

Be spoiled by your parents or at least live without knowing what it's like to not be able to get what you want just by ~~existing~~ being nice. Be average looking or less than average. Have no active hobbies, have no particular skill and nothing impressive about yourself. Have little to no social skill. Have little to no friends. Have a high standard for a girl because of porn and social media. Lavish the girl with gifts instead of trying to get to know her and let her know about you. Be extremely disappointed when you feel rejection for the very first time. Call yourself a nice guy, boom you have a nice guy. And repeat like a broken record.

Physiologymatters · 2018-11-13T15:06:21+00:00

They had parents who didn't teach them about social behaviors or socialize them properly, and they aren't clever enough to make up for that deficit through observation and information gathering

Title	How does someone get to be a "nice guy"?
Author	Whodunnit88
Upvotes	7
Comments	53
Date	November 13, 2018 2:10 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9wpd4s/how_does_someone_get_to_be_a_nice_guy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-does-someone-get-to-be-a-nice-guy.259069 https://theredarchive.com/post/259069

Comments