Is something right because it's biological?

purpleppp · 2017-03-31T21:27:18+00:00

I think people use evo psych to explain human behavior, not to justify it. Natural doesn't imply moral.

However, we do make exceptions for things we feel are really out of one's control. For example, reduced sentencing for people who are mentally ill and such.

ozymandias271 · 2017-04-01T00:47:29+00:00

The difference between rape and divorce is that rape is assault, which is a crime, and divorce is not assault and not a crime. Similarly, while it is natural to pluck fruit off a tree and eat it, and it is also natural to take a shit in public, there is only one of these I am going to face censure for.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-03-31T21:55:14+00:00

What does "right" mean, im not a religious fanatic, I don't speak moral-ese

DemonConsulting · 2017-03-31T21:24:56+00:00

Human Nature is biological while morals, rules and laws are a man made concepts to preserve society and civilization. "Right" and "Wrong" are by definition moral concepts, developed by people as social creatures and with that they exist "outside" of human nature/biology, if you will - they are more of a counter measure to nature, keeping it in check to keep society working.

Biology is something we don't have a choice over, however whether we see it as good or bad is our conscious choice as a society. Since society's rules are always changing, our definition of whether some parts of human nature are good or bad also change over time.

Objectively, human nature is neither good nor bad, it just is. That's what TRP means when they say sexual strategy is amoral. Now depending on what our goal is, we can assign morality to it to achieve our goal to encourage or discourage certain parts of human nature.

If we want maximum personal happiness/ unhinged hedonism and freedom, then we should let those instincts run free or even encourage them and therefor declare them "good". - that's for example what the sex positive feminists do.

If we want to reserve society then we need to discourage many parts of human nature like rape, violence, murder, theft, pooping wherever, having a natural sleep cycle instead of an industrial one, etc. Those are things we label as "bad".

At the moment we are trying to mostly have a society of high personal freedoms but also a funtioning civilization - one compromise that we agreed on is to criminalise physical violence, especialy with malicious intent (like rape) while it is harder to criminalise emotional/psychological violence since it is hard to prove, its severity is hard to determine and the intent is often extremely ambiguous (in he cheating case, is she doing it to hurt her husband or does she just want to exercise her freedoms to have sex with another consenting adult? And can we rank the husband's emotional well being over her physical freedom? The husbad is obviously also legally "allowed" to cheat)

Now I personally don't agree with all of our current morality or lack thereof - I am more concerned with preserving civilization since people are inherently drawn to needing some sort of rules and set place in society - if they lack that, have too many choices or engage in as many short term rewarding activities as they want, they end up even more unhappy than the previous generations as many studies have suggested. At best they are just as unhappy but society is wore off for it.

However the way our morality is decided, relies strongly on our politics and the opinion of the general population, as well as their idols and leaders - so no, things aren't "right" or "wrong" because they are biological, they just are and we have to accept those parts of human nature. If we encourage or discourage then though, is in turn our choice/ the choice of our social group/community/society.

jintana · 2017-03-31T21:40:30+00:00

What are the implications of behaving like animals?

There'd be shit everywhere.

There'd be bodies everywhere.

There'd be trash everywhere.

There'd be no such thing as a workforce. A barter economy may exist if enough people could cooperate.

The class system would reorganize.

Our possessions would reschedule in value.

Our diets would change.

Traditional courting would disappear.

Social skills would increase drastically in value.

Modern weapons would mean that a "men strong, women walking vaginas" caveman-like attitude could not be assumed.

dragoness_leclerq · 2017-03-31T22:10:53+00:00

Well, it's also a fact of life that for the vast majority of human history, female consent never mattered. Men fought other men, and the winner got all the women whether they liked it or not

And this is really how you think human mating operated for everyone all the time for "the vast majority of human history"??

If women ruining their family to sleep with a stranger who is better looking or whatever is legal and ok,

What? First of all, where are all these people "excusing" female infidelity or divorce based on biology or evolutionary psychology??

what is to stop men using their superior physical prowess to simply take women on the street when they feel like it?

I dunno, law enforcement? Her gun? The high T Chad she left her dopey beta husband for? Trust me, it ain't pure male self control that's stopping them from raping women.

Hell, why don't you try it. Go out and try taking some women on the street whenever you feel like it. Let me know how that works out.

Second, divorce is nothing like rape. Where are these bizarre ideas even coming from? Is it your inhearnt desire to rape women or are

Goddamn, I'm so sick of the whiny moralizing around here I don't even know why I bother.

EliteSpartanRanger · 2017-03-31T22:32:05+00:00

Redpillers are the ones who usually say that "it's biology so its ok", not blue pill.

https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/62ew0i/cmv_the_redpill_analyzes_the_lizard_brain_while/dfmaz6z/

Justapasserby557 · 2017-03-31T22:54:55+00:00

I've never heard anyone but TRP try to excuse bad behavior with evo-psych. And for most divorced couples I know, their divorce had nothing to do with hypergamy, branch-swinging, or what have you. Just plain ol' incompatibility.

SmurfESmurferson · 2017-03-31T21:01:05+00:00

You really don't see a difference between divorce and rape? Really?

RockinSocksReborn · 2017-03-31T21:17:27+00:00

The great thing about being human is that we can put off immediate pleasure either because of potential negative consequences or because we can plan to use that time to get an even greater pleasure in the future. We shouldn't indulge bad behavior just because it's "natural".

The natural thing to do is indulge the immediate pleasure center and do what we feel like doing. Go to work? Nah, fuck that. I like my neighbor's car. I'm fucking taking that shit. Etc.

the_calibre_cat · 2017-03-31T21:45:53+00:00

No. But something is a lot harder to change, and certainly wrong to shame, if it is biological.

Princeso_Bubblegum · 2017-03-31T22:18:09+00:00

absolutely not, this is a classic Is vs Ought issue, the reality of situation has no effect on the ethics of something

this is basic philsophy

Wolfsouls · 2017-04-01T02:03:31+00:00

Natural behaviors that don't directly hurt or violate the rights of other people are moral in my book.

UA_Hammer · 2017-03-31T22:02:38+00:00

"right" is a meaningless concept without a homogeneous society that mostly agrees on one set of morals. It's much more useful to look at if what you're trying to achieve is a stable or unstable equilibrium. Getting everyone to step away from their biological imperative without legal actions is possible with strong systems of social shaming and social reward for moral actions. Getting everyone to play nice with incentives for the opposite and little for is like getting people to not rat in the prisoners dilemma. It's unstable and comes tumbling down quickly as soon as you push it a little, similar to the top of a hill vs the bottom.

SetConsumes · 2017-03-31T23:01:43+00:00

Men stop other men from raping and sexually assaulting women.

IIHotelYorba · 2017-04-01T08:10:17+00:00

How are you going to stop them?

It's natural for women to do this, it's natural for most men to enable it, and it's natural for you to dislike it. How do you propose to change things from a "should" to an "is?"

Systems like TRP are meant to use it to advantage, to basically give women what they believe they already respond to. Something that hasn't changed since women existed.

adrixshadow · 2017-04-01T10:40:15+00:00

This is a known issue and why female sexuality was considered evil in most religions and cultures and had to be restricted.

So going by the religious view you are correct, female sexuality was wrong and had to be restricted. The big bearded man in the sky even said so.

You want to talk about morals, you got them.

Evolution does not care about right or wrong, evolution only cares about extinct.

winndixie · 2017-03-31T20:56:15+00:00

We humans are not moral, "right" creatures. If everyone had biological tendencies that fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, we'd behave like bees.

Is ambition towards a goal for personal gain that includes another's loss, "right"? Have you ever bought the last of an item at a supermarket? You might have starved some poor kid to death. Someone you never heard about but =\= he didnt exist. Now time to feel eternal guilt and cry yourself to sleep at night.

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Talkytalktalk · 2017-04-01T23:40:32+00:00

Morality is the set of beliefs and behaviors that facilitate voluntary, cooperative and mutually beneficial relationships.

soccerstar77 · 2017-04-02T21:27:32+00:00

If women ruining their family to sleep with a stranger who is better looking or whatever is legal and ok, what is to stop men using their superior physical prowess to simply take women on the street when they feel like it?

You are confusing morality and legality. Nonsense post.

Even in times with no female consent, you obviously had to deal with other men attacking you for taking their women.

Enozzir · 2017-04-01T16:43:15+00:00

No, the creation of stable, productive societies require the suppress of biological urges in men and more so in women.

Pope_Lucious · 2017-04-01T04:29:14+00:00

Did you read my comment? It's irrelevant if it's a multi-decade low if it is not a significant difference.

Pope_Lucious · 2017-04-01T05:02:45+00:00

You don't seem to be familiar with what the term "statistical anomaly" means.

Sure a small dip in the divorce rate COULD be a sign of a change in trajectory, as all local minimums of such rates can be at the time. But more than likely it's just that, a local minimum of no significance.

Title	Is something right because it's biological?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	4
Comments	95
Date	March 31, 2017 8:54 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/62o1y3/is_something_right_because_its_biological/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-something-right-because-its-biological.269163 https://theredarchive.com/post/269163

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